On Saturday, April 09, 2016 09:07:46 PM Rich Freeman wrote:
> On Sat, Apr 9, 2016 at 8:09 PM, J. Roeleveld wrote:
> > I actually write my own initramfs because neither dracut not genkernel end
> > up with a convenient boot system.
> >
> > I have 2 disks, both encrypted.
> > I prefer only to enter
On 10/04/16 04:49, Rich Freeman wrote:
> 1. As you point out, its not a package. That means it works
> differently than everything else, and it can't be used as a
> dependency/etc.
> 2. Genkernel's initramfs isn't all that great. Don't get me wrong -
> it was very good back when it was new. How
On Sat, Apr 9, 2016 at 11:28 PM, M. J. Everitt wrote:
> Ok I'm gonna push the Big Red Button here, and assume you may not have
> met 'genkernel' ..
Genkernel has been around for a LONG time. I'm well aware of it.
> ok its not a package, but its the nearest thing to
> Gentoo's solution to what y
On 10/04/16 04:08, Rich Freeman wrote:
> I think the bigger issue with the kernel is the huge configuration
> space it has. Chromium may have a ton of USE flags compared to most
> packages, but those pale in comparison to the kernel. Obviously it
> would not make sense to try to create a USE fla
On Sat, Apr 9, 2016 at 10:17 PM, M. J. Everitt wrote:
> I take your point, but I would argue that the kernel and boot subsystem
> really are special cases .. you don't go hacking around the chromium
> sources to fundamentally alter the way/order it works, right?! Likewise,
> if you don't like chro
On 10/04/16 03:06, Rich Freeman wrote:
>
> By that argument, when you run emerge chromium shouldn't it just dump
> the chromium sources in /usr/src, so that you can build and install
> your own chromium?
>
> The whole point of a source-based package manager is that it actually
> BUILDs the packages
On Sat, Apr 9, 2016 at 9:35 PM, M. J. Everitt wrote:
> I think that is the potential for a stage4-style install. I think
> previous list discussions have maintained that the flexibility of gentoo
> is maintained by having a very basic install image, and a stage3 to
> bootstrap into, and have the u
On 10/04/16 02:14, Rich Freeman wrote:
> Part of me also wonders if Gentoo would be better off having emerge
> gentoo-sources actually BUILD the kernel and initramfs and not just
> dump a bunch of sources on the disk. Most distros consider an
> initramfs a no-brainer because it just ships already
On Sat, Apr 9, 2016 at 8:37 PM, M. J. Everitt wrote:
> I may have contributed to the latter point, but addressing the former
> specifically, I, like others, have /usr mounted on an NFS server for
> thin clients (not in the full-true sense, but with a very minimal /
> currently residing on USB).
>
On Sat, Apr 9, 2016 at 8:09 PM, J. Roeleveld wrote:
>
> I actually write my own initramfs because neither dracut not genkernel end up
> with a convenient boot system.
>
> I have 2 disks, both encrypted.
> I prefer only to enter the decryption password once. Both Dracut and Genkernel
> insist on as
On Sat, Apr 9, 2016 at 5:50 PM, Philip Webb wrote:
> 160409 Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
> > On Sat, Apr 9, 2016 at 2:49 PM, Philip Webb
> wrote:
> >> I've always used Lilo, which is simple + reliable :
> >> I never see questions re it here, but there are many re Grub.
> >> I do use recent hardwar
On 10/04/16 00:53, William Hubbs wrote:
>
> The original discussion was about the usr merge [1], which is taking the
> binary parts of / and putting them in /usr, then inserting symlinks in /
> to preserve backward compatibility. Yes, I'm pointing to a document on
> fdo, but the systemd guys have n
On Saturday, April 09, 2016 05:15:08 PM James Le Cuirot wrote:
> On Sat, 9 Apr 2016 12:09:38 -0400
>
> waltd...@waltdnes.org wrote:
> > > I never really got the mentality that using an initramfs is a
> > > burden.
> > >
> > One more piece of software that can go wrong. You have to
> >
> > mai
Hi Philip,
On Sat, Apr 09, 2016 at 06:50:49PM -0400, Philip Webb wrote:
> Can you or anyone else answer my other question re the origin of the thread ?
> -- ie is this a revival of not putting /usr on its own partition
> or is it a new proposal to alter the file system in some other way ?
The o
On 09/04/16 23:50, Philip Webb wrote:
> 160409 Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
>> On Sat, Apr 9, 2016 at 2:49 PM, Philip Webb wrote:
>>> I've always used Lilo, which is simple + reliable :
>>> I never see questions re it here, but there are many re Grub.
>>> I do use recent hardware, a cutting-edge mac
160409 Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
> On Sat, Apr 9, 2016 at 2:49 PM, Philip Webb wrote:
>> I've always used Lilo, which is simple + reliable :
>> I never see questions re it here, but there are many re Grub.
>> I do use recent hardware, a cutting-edge machine I built 6 mth ago .
>> When setting it
On Sat, Apr 9, 2016 at 2:49 PM, Philip Webb wrote:
> 160409 Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
>> You use LILO : that means, you don't use UEFI :
>> that means, almost certainly, you don't use recent hardware.
>
> I've always used Lilo, which is simple + reliable :
> I never see questions re it here, but
On 09/04/16 20:53, Rich Freeman wrote:
> On Sat, Apr 9, 2016 at 3:49 PM, Philip Webb wrote:
>> I've always used Lilo, which is simple + reliable :
>> I never see questions re it here, but there are many re Grub.
>> I do use recent hardware, a cutting-edge machine I built 6 mth ago .
>> When setti
On Sat, Apr 9, 2016 at 3:49 PM, Philip Webb wrote:
> I've always used Lilo, which is simple + reliable :
> I never see questions re it here, but there are many re Grub.
> I do use recent hardware, a cutting-edge machine I built 6 mth ago .
> When setting it up, I suppressed UEFI in the BIOS setti
160409 Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
> You use LILO : that means, you don't use UEFI :
> that means, almost certainly, you don't use recent hardware.
I've always used Lilo, which is simple + reliable :
I never see questions re it here, but there are many re Grub.
I do use recent hardware, a cutting-e
On 09/04/2016 20:34, waltd...@waltdnes.org wrote:
> On Sat, Apr 09, 2016 at 12:18:25PM -0500, »Q« wrote
>> On Sat, 9 Apr 2016 12:09:38 -0400
>> waltd...@waltdnes.org wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, Apr 09, 2016 at 07:11:31AM -0400, Rich Freeman wrote
>>>
It was simply a recognition that we were already
On Sat, Apr 9, 2016 at 1:34 PM, wrote:
> On Sat, Apr 09, 2016 at 12:18:25PM -0500, »Q« wrote
>> On Sat, 9 Apr 2016 12:09:38 -0400
>> waltd...@waltdnes.org wrote:
>>
>> > On Sat, Apr 09, 2016 at 07:11:31AM -0400, Rich Freeman wrote
>> >
>> > > It was simply a recognition that we were already in a
On Sat, Apr 9, 2016 at 11:09 AM, wrote:
> On Sat, Apr 09, 2016 at 07:11:31AM -0400, Rich Freeman wrote
>
>> It was simply a recognition that we were already in a state where
>> booting a system without /usr mounted early can cause problems.
>
> For certain edge cases... yes.
Edge cases? Accord
On Sat, Apr 09, 2016 at 07:11:31AM -0400, Rich Freeman wrote
>
> An initramfs is just a secondary bootloader for userspace. I almost
> always use them even if I'm just booting a VM with a single partition
> on it. If something goes wrong you can fall back to a shell in the
> initramfs and it is
James Le Cuirot wrote:
> On Sat, 9 Apr 2016 12:09:38 -0400
> waltd...@waltdnes.org wrote:
>
>>> I never really got the mentality that using an initramfs is a
>>> burden.
>> One more piece of software that can go wrong. You have to
>> maintain+configure it; e.g. sync software and library versio
On Sat, Apr 09, 2016 at 12:18:25PM -0500, »Q« wrote
> On Sat, 9 Apr 2016 12:09:38 -0400
> waltd...@waltdnes.org wrote:
>
> > On Sat, Apr 09, 2016 at 07:11:31AM -0400, Rich Freeman wrote
> >
> > > It was simply a recognition that we were already in a state where
> > > booting a system without /usr
Le 09/04/16 à 17:15, James Le Cuirot a tapoté :
> Errm, have you ever actually used dracut?
>
> dracut --kver 4.5
>
> Wow, that was hard! It requires zero configuration [...]
Sorry. Not true.
> $ emerge -pv dracut
>
> [...]
>
> The following keyword changes are necessary to proceed:
> (see "p
On Saturday, April 9, 2016 5:11:30 PM CEST, William Hubbs wrote:
...
if we don't make it optional we're going to cause some serious headaches
for people who are invested in the current status quo.
...
gen_usr_ldscript is only needed if you are using separate /usr without
an initramfs. This is
On Sat, 9 Apr 2016 12:09:38 -0400
waltd...@waltdnes.org wrote:
> On Sat, Apr 09, 2016 at 07:11:31AM -0400, Rich Freeman wrote
>
> > It was simply a recognition that we were already in a state where
> > booting a system without /usr mounted early can cause problems.
>
> For certain edge cases..
On 17:15 Sat 09 Apr, James Le Cuirot wrote:
> On Sat, 9 Apr 2016 12:09:38 -0400
> waltd...@waltdnes.org wrote:
>
> > > I never really got the mentality that using an initramfs is a
> > > burden.
> >
> > One more piece of software that can go wrong. You have to
> > maintain+configure it; e.g.
On Sat, 9 Apr 2016 12:09:38 -0400
waltd...@waltdnes.org wrote:
> > I never really got the mentality that using an initramfs is a
> > burden.
>
> One more piece of software that can go wrong. You have to
> maintain+configure it; e.g. sync software and library versions with
> what's on the res
On Sat, Apr 09, 2016 at 07:11:31AM -0400, Rich Freeman wrote
> It was simply a recognition that we were already in a state where
> booting a system without /usr mounted early can cause problems.
For certain edge cases... yes. But they were already using initramfs
or merging /usr into /. I'm t
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Andreas K. Huettel:
> On Monday 04 April 2016 06:57:51 NP-Hardass wrote:
>> On 04/04/2016 12:34 AM, Göktürk Yüksek wrote:
>>> +sufficient for adding or removing a developer. Note that
>>> different +projects have different requirements and procedure
On Sat, Apr 09, 2016 at 12:06:47AM -0400, Anthony G. Basile wrote:
> On 4/8/16 11:03 PM, Rich Freeman wrote:
> > On Fri, Apr 8, 2016 at 9:51 PM, Anthony G. Basile
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> Alternatively, this may introduce problems. So it seems like we're
> >> fixing something that isn't broken.
> >>
> On Apr 8, 2016, at 8:42 PM, William Hubbs wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Apr 08, 2016 at 03:20:24PM -0700, Daniel Campbell wrote:
>> Based on what I've read here in the thread, merging /bin and /sbin
>> into /usr/{sbin,bin} is a matter of convenience by putting most of the
>> static parts of a running s
On 09/04/16 14:37, Rich Freeman wrote:
> I've certainly haven't had many problems with dracut. When it fails
> it is usually because I'm doing something ELSE that is off-the-wall
> and it just doesn't have a plugin for it yet. (And in those cases it
> isn't like the kernel tends to get it right w
On 08/04/16 14:55, Rich Freeman wrote:
> The purpose of a /usr merge is to get all the stateless stuff into one place.
beside what you have in /etc ...
usr-merge, in practice just moves early-boot/core tools where the rest
of the userspace lives.
> Some of the ultimate goals include:
> 1. A rea
On Fri, Apr 08, 2016 at 07:58:35AM +, Duncan wrote:
> > I would also re-iterate, as I'm sure you're aware .. there ARE
> > differences between sbin and bin .. unless of course you spend all your
> > time in a Rooted VM where it doesn't matter if you accidentally trash
> > your system. Some of
On 4/9/16 7:16 AM, Anthony G. Basile wrote:
> On 4/9/16 6:56 AM, Rich Freeman wrote:
>> Personally, I think our users would be better-served by making it a
>> choice.
>
> Rich, we can bike shed for days. It would just be nice to hear from
> base-layout people whether it will be a choice or not.
On Sat, Apr 9, 2016 at 8:27 AM, Luca Barbato wrote:
> On 09/04/16 13:53, Rich Freeman wrote:
>> Put the very same stuff in the initramfs? Most initramfs creation
>> scripts should already do this automatically, and with compat symlinks
>> even those that don't probably will still end up doing it
On 09/04/16 13:53, Rich Freeman wrote:
> On Sat, Apr 9, 2016 at 7:41 AM, Luca Barbato wrote:
>> On 05/04/16 03:19, William Hubbs wrote:
>>> Thoughts on any of this?
>>
>> The whole usr-merge moves the problem of putting stuff in / to putting
>> the very same stuff in the initrd when something diff
On Sat, 9 Apr 2016 12:12:44 +0200 Ole Reifschneider wrote:
>On Tue, Apr 05, 2016 at 12:30:15AM -0400, Jonathan Callen wrote:
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>>
>> On 04/04/2016 02:58 AM, Lars Wendler wrote:
>> > On Sun, 3 Apr 2016 22:57:42 +0200 Ulrich Mueller wrote:
>> >
On Sat, Apr 9, 2016 at 7:41 AM, Luca Barbato wrote:
> On 05/04/16 03:19, William Hubbs wrote:
>> Thoughts on any of this?
>
> The whole usr-merge moves the problem of putting stuff in / to putting
> the very same stuff in the initrd when something different from busybox
> (or equivalent) is needed
On 05/04/16 03:19, William Hubbs wrote:
> Thoughts on any of this?
The whole usr-merge moves the problem of putting stuff in / to putting
the very same stuff in the initrd when something different from busybox
(or equivalent) is needed to get the early boot mounting.
Do we have a reliable way to
On 4/9/16 6:56 AM, Rich Freeman wrote:
> Personally, I think our users would be better-served by making it a
> choice.
Rich, we can bike shed for days. It would just be nice to hear from
base-layout people whether it will be a choice or not. We need to know
that so we can plan accordingly.
--
On Sat, Apr 9, 2016 at 1:32 AM, wrote:
>
> now - an arbitrary decree comes down that *EVERYBODY* who wants a
> separate /usr needs to have initramfs.
>
The "decree" wasn't some kind of law that the Gentoo police will come
out to your house and arrest you for violating.
It was simply a recogniti
On Sat, Apr 9, 2016 at 12:06 AM, Anthony G. Basile wrote:
> On 4/8/16 11:03 PM, Rich Freeman wrote:
>>
>> What problems are you anticipating, especially in light of the fact
>> that many distros actually do it this way already?
>
> RBAC policy files for one. You'll probably break every single har
On Tue, Apr 05, 2016 at 12:30:15AM -0400, Jonathan Callen wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA512
>
> On 04/04/2016 02:58 AM, Lars Wendler wrote:
> > On Sun, 3 Apr 2016 22:57:42 +0200 Ulrich Mueller wrote:
> >
> >> Does anyone still use the CVS $Id$ keywords that are in all
> >>
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