On Fri, 07 Sep 2012 18:55:10 -0400
Michael Orlitzky wrote:
> I think that dependencies are ultimately not hierarchical
Situations like foo? ( bar? ( || ( a ( b c ) ) ) ) do happen, so any
new syntax would have to be able to deal with that.
--
Ciaran McCreesh
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On 09/07/12 19:45, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> Since DEPENDENCIES hasn't been written up in a Gentoo-friendly manner,
> and since the Exherbo documentation doesn't seem to suffice to explain
> the idea here, here's some more details on the DEPENDENCIES proposal.
>
>
There's change, and there's progres
On 9/7/2012 10:32 AM, Fabian Groffen wrote:
With the introduction of IMPLICIT_IUSE (scheduled for EAPI 5), a phrase
has been added to PMS, that finally makes a statement on what's supposed
to be in IUSE, and what not[2]. To me, this patch means that things like
userland_BSD, elibc_glibc, etc. d
On 09/07/2012 07:45 AM, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> Since DEPENDENCIES hasn't been written up in a Gentoo-friendly
> manner, and since the Exherbo documentation doesn't seem to suffice
> to explain the idea here, here's some more details on the
> DEPENDENCIES proposal.
>
It seems to me that the prob
On 09/07/2012 01:50 PM, Gregory M. Turner wrote:
> Indeed, most ebuilds do this correctly although occasionally I've seen
> exceptions. My overlay is for Prefix so it "lucks out" if ebuild
> authors forget this and add the slash; but if/when non-prefix cygwin
> support is resuscitated in Gentoo, a
On 9/6/2012 5:56 AM, Ian Stakenvicius wrote:
On 06/09/12 03:55 AM, Ulrich Mueller wrote:
On Thu, 06 Sep 2012, Gregory M Turner wrote:
${ROOT:=/} EPREFIX="@GENTOO_PORTAGE_EPREFIX@"
EROOT="${ROOT}${EPREFIX}"
When ROOT is undefined or empty, this script will assign "//foo"
to EROOT and bad thin
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On Fri, 07 Sep 2012 16:28:40 -0400
Ian Stakenvicius wrote:
> >> - - the new DEPEND now will be used for things that are
> >> *currently* in RDEPEND and DEPEND (so that things will work) but
> >> are not actually run-time dependencies. Said atoms will
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On 07/09/12 04:14 PM, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> On Fri, 07 Sep 2012 16:08:53 -0400 Ian Stakenvicius
> wrote:
>> Bringing it back to the issue it's solving:
>
>> Afaict, for migration:
>
>> - - DEPEND changes to HDEPEND
>
> If we're going by Chromi
On Fri, 7 Sep 2012 22:07:30 +0200
Michał Górny wrote:
> On Fri, 7 Sep 2012 20:25:58 +0100
> Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> > On Fri, 7 Sep 2012 21:21:42 +0200
> > Michał Górny wrote:
> > > So... what is your issue in here, sir?
> >
> > The issue is what Zac, Ian and I were discussing, before you jump
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On Fri, 07 Sep 2012 16:08:53 -0400
Ian Stakenvicius wrote:
> Bringing it back to the issue it's solving:
>
> Afaict, for migration:
>
> - - DEPEND changes to HDEPEND
If we're going by Chromium, AFAICS they're only making this change when
they find
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On 07/09/12 04:10 PM, Michał Górny wrote:
> On Fri, 7 Sep 2012 16:59:48 -0300 Alexis Ballier
> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 7 Sep 2012 20:21:03 +0200 Michał Górny
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, 7 Sep 2012 14:40:25 -0300 Alexis Ballier
>>> wrote:
>>>
On F
On Fri, 7 Sep 2012 16:59:48 -0300
Alexis Ballier wrote:
> On Fri, 7 Sep 2012 20:21:03 +0200
> Michał Górny wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 7 Sep 2012 14:40:25 -0300
> > Alexis Ballier wrote:
> >
> > > On Fri, 7 Sep 2012 18:03:51 +0200
> > > Michał Górny wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Fri, 7 Sep 2012 12:46:41
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On 07/09/12 02:52 PM, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> On Fri, 7 Sep 2012 20:46:48 +0200 Michał Górny
> wrote:
>> Now, let me remind you because you probably fail to know the
>> world outside your dreamworld:
>>
>> (with HDEPEND/DEPEND) generally mean that
On Fri, 7 Sep 2012 20:25:58 +0100
Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> On Fri, 7 Sep 2012 21:21:42 +0200
> Michał Górny wrote:
> > So... what is your issue in here, sir?
>
> The issue is what Zac, Ian and I were discussing, before you jumped in
> and started yelling. Repeating it for you:
>
> We want to k
On Fri, 7 Sep 2012 20:21:03 +0200
Michał Górny wrote:
> On Fri, 7 Sep 2012 14:40:25 -0300
> Alexis Ballier wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 7 Sep 2012 18:03:51 +0200
> > Michał Górny wrote:
> >
> > > On Fri, 7 Sep 2012 12:46:41 -0300
> > > Alexis Ballier wrote:
> > >
> > > > I actually do like the conc
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On 07/09/12 03:25 PM, Fabian Groffen wrote:
> On 07-09-2012 12:03:16 -0700, Zac Medico wrote:
>> On 09/07/2012 11:17 AM, Fabian Groffen wrote:
>>> I guess real-life examples, more extensively described than you
>>> did before, with exactly where it g
On 07-09-2012 20:36:02 +0100, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> The correct fix for "not needing to rebuild" stuff is to SLOT libraries
> like crazy, and have a SLOT per thing-we-don't-call-ABI. This then
> needs := dependencies, so that packages can say "and remember which
> SLOT I was built against".
>
>
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On 07/09/12 02:46 PM, Michał Górny wrote:
> On Fri, 7 Sep 2012 19:31:16 +0100 Ciaran McCreesh
> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 7 Sep 2012 20:23:23 +0200 Michał Górny
>> wrote:
>>> I can't agree unless I am missing something. Doesn't the
>>> majority of ebuil
On Fri, 7 Sep 2012 21:25:22 +0200
Fabian Groffen wrote:
> I like that! Kudos for making it work!
>
> I just wonder what the heck that has to do with SLOT.
The correct fix for "not needing to rebuild" stuff is to SLOT libraries
like crazy, and have a SLOT per thing-we-don't-call-ABI. This then
n
On Fri, 7 Sep 2012 21:21:42 +0200
Michał Górny wrote:
> So... what is your issue in here, sir?
The issue is what Zac, Ian and I were discussing, before you jumped in
and started yelling. Repeating it for you:
We want to know, for dependencies that are in DEPEND and not RDEPEND,
whether or not mo
On 07-09-2012 12:03:16 -0700, Zac Medico wrote:
> On 09/07/2012 11:17 AM, Fabian Groffen wrote:
> > I guess real-life examples, more extensively described than you did
> > before, with exactly where it goes wrong, and how the situation is
> > improved would help.
>
> Perhaps some of the greatest f
On Fri, 7 Sep 2012 20:13:19 +0100
Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> On Fri, 7 Sep 2012 21:11:22 +0200
> Michał Górny wrote:
> > On Fri, 7 Sep 2012 19:52:05 +0100
> > Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> > > On Fri, 7 Sep 2012 20:46:48 +0200
> > > Michał Górny wrote:
> > > > Now, let me remind you because you proba
On Fri, 7 Sep 2012 21:11:22 +0200
Michał Górny wrote:
> On Fri, 7 Sep 2012 19:52:05 +0100
> Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> > On Fri, 7 Sep 2012 20:46:48 +0200
> > Michał Górny wrote:
> > > Now, let me remind you because you probably fail to know the world
> > > outside your dreamworld:
> > >
> > >
On Fri, 7 Sep 2012 19:52:05 +0100
Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> On Fri, 7 Sep 2012 20:46:48 +0200
> Michał Górny wrote:
> > Now, let me remind you because you probably fail to know the world
> > outside your dreamworld:
> >
> > (with HDEPEND/DEPEND) generally mean that we would need to
> > s/DEP
On 07-09-2012 19:55:53 +0100, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> > It appears slot-operator-deps do have some resemblance with ABI here
> > (especially if :* would be written in PMS such that it only allows
> > upgrades, no downgrades), but sub-slots are completely unrelated.
>
> Downgrades are a different,
On 09/07/2012 11:17 AM, Fabian Groffen wrote:
> No, not a GLEP, per se. I'm trying to understand what sub-slot does and
> is. I think I'm starting to understand now. However, for this feature
> to be added to an EAPI, IMO it would be nice if there are resources that
> make it for most developers
On 07-09-2012 14:39:38 -0400, Ian Stakenvicius wrote:
> I guess maybe i'm not following your example. To spell it out better,
> here's what I'm understanding:
>
> bar-1.0 has (prior to slot-operators) an RDEPEND="app-cat/libfnord".
> No version specified. As such, it'll build successfully agains
On Fri, 7 Sep 2012 20:49:35 +0200
Fabian Groffen wrote:
> On 07-09-2012 19:21:57 +0100, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> > On Fri, 7 Sep 2012 20:17:17 +0200
> > Fabian Groffen wrote:
> > > Eh, no. Now it just always breaks when you perform a downgrade,
> > > and revdev-rebuild or @preserved-libs won't h
On Fri, 7 Sep 2012 20:46:48 +0200
Michał Górny wrote:
> Now, let me remind you because you probably fail to know the world
> outside your dreamworld:
>
> (with HDEPEND/DEPEND) generally mean that we would need to
> s/DEPEND/HDEPEND/ for the vast majority of ebuilds (ie all the
> trivial ones)
On 07-09-2012 19:21:57 +0100, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> On Fri, 7 Sep 2012 20:17:17 +0200
> Fabian Groffen wrote:
> > Eh, no. Now it just always breaks when you perform a downgrade, and
> > revdev-rebuild or @preserved-libs won't help you. I prefer that you
> > give best practices how to use sub-
On Fri, 7 Sep 2012 19:31:16 +0100
Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> On Fri, 7 Sep 2012 20:23:23 +0200
> Michał Górny wrote:
> > I can't agree unless I am missing something. Doesn't the majority of
> > ebuilds actually require most of DEPEND (well, the part common with
> > RDEPEND) to be installed on the
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On 07/09/12 02:17 PM, Fabian Groffen wrote:
>
> No, not a GLEP, per se. I'm trying to understand what sub-slot
> does and is. I think I'm starting to understand now. However, for
> this feature to be added to an EAPI, IMO it would be nice if ther
On Fri, 7 Sep 2012 20:23:23 +0200
Michał Górny wrote:
> I can't agree unless I am missing something. Doesn't the majority of
> ebuilds actually require most of DEPEND (well, the part common with
> RDEPEND) to be installed on the target? I'm thinking of the shared
> libraries mostly.
"The part com
On Fri, 7 Sep 2012 19:32:12 +0200
Fabian Groffen wrote:
> mgorny opened up a bug[1], which requests for all eclasses that use
> the 'prefix' USE-flag to be "fixed" to add 'prefix' to IUSE.
Please do not suggest that I am the one requesting this to be "fixed".
I just have opened the bug because C
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On Fri, 07 Sep 2012 11:18:28 -0700
Zac Medico wrote:
> In the linked chromium-os-dev discussion, the consensus seemed to be
> that migrating deps from DEPEND to HDEPEND would result in fewer
> overall changes than migrating deps from DEPEND to TDEPEND
On Fri, 7 Sep 2012 20:17:17 +0200
Fabian Groffen wrote:
> Eh, no. Now it just always breaks when you perform a downgrade, and
> revdev-rebuild or @preserved-libs won't help you. I prefer that you
> give best practices how to use sub-slots to make Portage also able to
> do a recompile of bar when
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On 09/07/2012 11:18 AM, Zac Medico wrote:
> On 09/07/2012 10:58 AM, Ian Stakenvicius wrote:
>> On 07/09/12 01:40 PM, Zac Medico wrote:
>>> On 09/07/2012 10:02 AM, Ian Stakenvicius wrote:
On 07/09/12 12:58 PM, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> On Fri, 0
On Fri, 07 Sep 2012 13:58:00 -0400
Ian Stakenvicius wrote:
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>
> On 07/09/12 01:40 PM, Zac Medico wrote:
> > On 09/07/2012 10:02 AM, Ian Stakenvicius wrote:
> >> On 07/09/12 12:58 PM, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> >>> On Fri, 07 Sep 2012 09:53:46 -070
On Fri, 7 Sep 2012 14:40:25 -0300
Alexis Ballier wrote:
> On Fri, 7 Sep 2012 18:03:51 +0200
> Michał Górny wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 7 Sep 2012 12:46:41 -0300
> > Alexis Ballier wrote:
> >
> > > I actually do like the concept but I'm not sure we can reach
> > > consensus about '*DEPEND vs DEPENDEN
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On 09/07/2012 10:58 AM, Ian Stakenvicius wrote:
> On 07/09/12 01:40 PM, Zac Medico wrote:
>> On 09/07/2012 10:02 AM, Ian Stakenvicius wrote:
>>> On 07/09/12 12:58 PM, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
On Fri, 07 Sep 2012 09:53:46 -0700 Zac Medico
wrot
On 07-09-2012 13:51:24 -0400, Ian Stakenvicius wrote:
> On 07/09/12 01:13 PM, Fabian Groffen wrote:
> > On 06-09-2012 09:25:53 -0400, Ian Stakenvicius wrote:
> >> #1 - there is both a specification, and an initial
> >> implementation, AND a fork of the tree that is kept
> >> semi-up-to-date on my d
On 07-09-2012 10:52:10 -0700, Zac Medico wrote:
> On 09/07/2012 10:13 AM, Fabian Groffen wrote:
> > Could you give an example where implicit ${PV} as sub-slot would
> > not do what you need?
>
> Can you point out a package for which SONAME/ABI/whatever changes
> every time ${PV} changes? Probably
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On 07/09/12 01:40 PM, Zac Medico wrote:
> On 09/07/2012 10:02 AM, Ian Stakenvicius wrote:
>> On 07/09/12 12:58 PM, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
>>> On Fri, 07 Sep 2012 09:53:46 -0700 Zac Medico
>>> wrote:
If you're insinuating that Portage may not ha
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On 09/07/2012 10:13 AM, Fabian Groffen wrote:
> Could you give an example where implicit ${PV} as sub-slot would
> not do what you need?
Can you point out a package for which SONAME/ABI/whatever changes
every time ${PV} changes? Probably not. Is the r
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On 07/09/12 01:13 PM, Fabian Groffen wrote:
> On 06-09-2012 09:25:53 -0400, Ian Stakenvicius wrote:
>> #1 - there is both a specification, and an initial
>> implementation, AND a fork of the tree that is kept
>> semi-up-to-date on my dev overlay.
>
On 09/07/2012 10:02 AM, Ian Stakenvicius wrote:
> On 07/09/12 12:58 PM, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
>> On Fri, 07 Sep 2012 09:53:46 -0700 Zac Medico
>> wrote:
>>> If you're insinuating that Portage may not have a
>>> "fully-ROOT-and-/-aware resolver", then I can assure you that
>>> this is not a probl
On Fri, 7 Sep 2012 18:03:51 +0200
Michał Górny wrote:
> On Fri, 7 Sep 2012 12:46:41 -0300
> Alexis Ballier wrote:
>
> > I actually do like the concept but I'm not sure we can reach
> > consensus about '*DEPEND vs DEPENDENCIES'; a possibility to get
> > people used to it could be to have two par
All,
mgorny opened up a bug[1], which requests for all eclasses that use the
'prefix' USE-flag to be "fixed" to add 'prefix' to IUSE.
While the 'prefix' USE-flag has since its introduction belonged to that
group of USE-flags that are not supposed to be set by the user
him/herself, it is not cover
On 09/07/2012 09:58 AM, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> On Fri, 07 Sep 2012 09:53:46 -0700
> Zac Medico wrote:
>> If you're insinuating that Portage may not have a
>> "fully-ROOT-and-/-aware resolver", then I can assure you that this is
>> not a problem.
>
> In that case, why do we need HDEPEND at all?
On 06-09-2012 09:25:53 -0400, Ian Stakenvicius wrote:
> #1 - there is both a specification, and an initial implementation, AND
> a fork of the tree that is kept semi-up-to-date on my dev overlay.
I was interested in a (formal) specification, not a proof of concept.
> #2 - related to your question
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On 07/09/12 12:58 PM, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> On Fri, 07 Sep 2012 09:53:46 -0700 Zac Medico
> wrote:
>> If you're insinuating that Portage may not have a
>> "fully-ROOT-and-/-aware resolver", then I can assure you that
>> this is not a problem.
>
On Fri, 07 Sep 2012 09:53:46 -0700
Zac Medico wrote:
> If you're insinuating that Portage may not have a
> "fully-ROOT-and-/-aware resolver", then I can assure you that this is
> not a problem.
In that case, why do we need HDEPEND at all?
--
Ciaran McCreesh
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On 09/07/2012 09:10 AM, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> On Fri, 7 Sep 2012 12:46:41 -0300
> Alexis Ballier wrote:
>> For example, what is the HDEPEND equivalent for DEPENDENCIES ? exherbo
>> documentation doesn't seem to mention an equivalent label.
>
> DEPENDENCIES is essentially independent of what la
On Fri, 07 Sep 2012 18:40:47 +0200
""Paweł Hajdan, Jr."" wrote:
> Also, requiring a rewrite of all existing ebuilds doesn't sound like a
> good idea. I think this should be designed not to require a rewrite,
> and then the concern about wasted time disappears.
Uh, there is no "rewriting all exist
On Fri, 07 Sep 2012 18:12:08 +0200
""Paweł Hajdan, Jr."" wrote:
> On 9/7/12 5:46 PM, Alexis Ballier wrote:
> > I actually do like the concept but I'm not sure we can reach
> > consensus about '*DEPEND vs DEPENDENCIES'
>
> I also like at least significant parts of the DEPENDENCIES concept,
> espe
On 9/7/12 6:03 PM, Michał Górny wrote:
> Why the dev community only? We have many active contributors who aren't
> devs and who work hard with ebuilds. It's *their* time which will be
> wasted on rewriting dependencies into new form, not yours.
Should those contributors also vote? Do they have any
On Fri, 7 Sep 2012 12:28:31 -0400
Michael Mol wrote:
> An intermediate form of that might be useful for auditing the tree and
> finding packages which aren't expressing, e.g. RDEPENDS, but probably
> should.
RDEPEND=DEPEND was removed in EAPI 4, if that's what you mean.
--
Ciaran McCreesh
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On Fri, Sep 7, 2012 at 12:11 PM, Ian Stakenvicius wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
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>
> On 07/09/12 12:03 PM, Michał Górny wrote:
>> On Fri, 7 Sep 2012 12:46:41 -0300 Alexis Ballier
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I actually do like the concept but I'm not sure we can reach
>>> consensu
On Fri, 7 Sep 2012 12:46:41 -0300
Alexis Ballier wrote:
> For example, what is the HDEPEND equivalent for DEPENDENCIES ? exherbo
> documentation doesn't seem to mention an equivalent label.
DEPENDENCIES is essentially independent of what label names we
introduce. I get the impression Gentoo will
On 9/7/12 5:46 PM, Alexis Ballier wrote:
> I actually do like the concept but I'm not sure we can reach consensus
> about '*DEPEND vs DEPENDENCIES'
I also like at least significant parts of the DEPENDENCIES concept,
especially when we start adding more dep variables like HDEPEND.
My understanding
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On 07/09/12 12:03 PM, Michał Górny wrote:
> On Fri, 7 Sep 2012 12:46:41 -0300 Alexis Ballier
> wrote:
>
>> I actually do like the concept but I'm not sure we can reach
>> consensus about '*DEPEND vs DEPENDENCIES'; a possibility to get
>> people use
On Fri, 7 Sep 2012 12:46:41 -0300
Alexis Ballier wrote:
> I actually do like the concept but I'm not sure we can reach consensus
> about '*DEPEND vs DEPENDENCIES'; a possibility to get people used to
> it could be to have two parallel EAPIs, like 6 and 6-dependencies,
> where the former will keep
I actually do like the concept but I'm not sure we can reach consensus
about '*DEPEND vs DEPENDENCIES'; a possibility to get people used to it
could be to have two parallel EAPIs, like 6 and 6-dependencies, where
the former will keep the old style and the latter use DEPENDENCIES.
After some time h
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(Just for the record, I don't care about the merits or demerits of
*DEPEND or DEPENDENCIES.)
> Ah, I forgot how the goals change *everything*. Because it's good
> to kill hundreds of people for the good reasons.
You might want to take a short break t
On Fri, 7 Sep 2012 16:07:54 +0100
Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> On Fri, 7 Sep 2012 17:02:57 +0200
> Michał Górny wrote:
> > > The problem is that you're arguing against a proposal that doesn't
> > > exist except in your head. If you'd like to read and understand
> > > the proposal being made, which s
On Fri, 7 Sep 2012 17:02:57 +0200
Michał Górny wrote:
> > The problem is that you're arguing against a proposal that doesn't
> > exist except in your head. If you'd like to read and understand the
> > proposal being made, which starts with understanding the bits marked
> > clearly with stars, and
On Fri, 7 Sep 2012 15:53:50 +0100
Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> On Fri, 7 Sep 2012 16:23:16 +0200
> Michał Górny wrote:
> > On Fri, 7 Sep 2012 13:36:05 +0100
> > Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> > > > These are the rules for a machine. People don't actually read
> > > > dependencies sequentially. Provide a
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On Fri, 07 Sep 2012 10:50:40 -0400
Ian Stakenvicius wrote:
> On 07/09/12 07:45 AM, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> > [ Snip! ] Note also how the foo-related things, the bar-related
> > things etc cannot be grouped together by their fooness or barness,
> > bu
On Fri, 7 Sep 2012 16:23:16 +0200
Michał Górny wrote:
> On Fri, 7 Sep 2012 13:36:05 +0100
> Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> > > These are the rules for a machine. People don't actually read
> > > dependencies sequentially. Provide a good algorithm which works
> > > from any position.
> >
> > Read backw
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On 07/09/12 07:45 AM, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> [ Snip! ] Note also how the foo-related things, the bar-related
> things etc cannot be grouped together by their fooness or barness,
> but are rather grouped by their DEPENDness and RDEPENDness.
>
> [ S
On Fri, 7 Sep 2012 13:36:05 +0100
Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> > These are the rules for a machine. People don't actually read
> > dependencies sequentially. Provide a good algorithm which works from
> > any position.
>
> Read backwards from the current position until you find a label. It's
> the sa
Hello,
The release of a new major GStreamer 1.0 release is going to happen
soon. It will be parallel-installable with the 0.10 series, so it will
be eventually introduced as a separate SLOT and co-exist for a while.
As such, if you maintain any packages that have any dependencies on
media-libs/g
On Fri, 7 Sep 2012 14:29:41 +0200
Michał Górny wrote:
> > Here's the important bit, which I shall prefix with some stars:
> >
> > *** The point of DEPENDENCIES is not to replace n variables with one
> > *** variable.
>
> Yes, it is.
You've clearly either completely missed the point of all of th
On Fri, 7 Sep 2012 12:45:59 +0100
Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> Since DEPENDENCIES hasn't been written up in a Gentoo-friendly manner,
> and since the Exherbo documentation doesn't seem to suffice to explain
> the idea here, here's some more details on the DEPENDENCIES proposal.
>
> We observe that a
Since DEPENDENCIES hasn't been written up in a Gentoo-friendly manner,
and since the Exherbo documentation doesn't seem to suffice to explain
the idea here, here's some more details on the DEPENDENCIES proposal.
We observe that a typical package will have something like this:
DEPEND="
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