Hi Jim,
On Jul 5, 2006, at 5:42 AM, Jim Jagielski wrote:
On Jul 3, 2006, at 6:45 PM, Craig L Russell wrote:
Hi Dan,
I have to agree that if an existing code base is migrated to
Apache, it should not mean that all maintenance ceases on the
existing code. There are good reasons for projec
On Jul 5, 2006, at 3:13 PM, Adinarayana Sakala wrote:
Hi Jim,
We are definetely committed to build the project and community at
Apache. So, Any and all new development will happen at Apache. That
said, as i indicated in my email before there might be a need to do
some bug fixes and maybe point
Hi Jim,
We are definetely committed to build the project and community at
Apache. So, Any and all new development will happen at Apache. That
said, as i indicated in my email before there might be a need to do
some bug fixes and maybe point releases for Celtix and XFire based on
old code base in
Jim Jagielski wrote:
Now consider a case where I donate the code, it enters
the incubator, but I do NOT terminate the external
project... Then what was the reason *for* the
"move" to the ASF? It wasn't a move at all, but
a simple code drop.
How does this differ from the httpd project continuin
To make this easier:
Say I have this cool project that I'd like to contribute
to the ASF and have it become a TLP. I donate the code,
it enters the incubator, a community is built around it
and the external project is put out to pasture (ala
SpamAssassin).
Now consider a case where I donate the
On Jul 3, 2006, at 6:45 PM, Craig L Russell wrote:
Hi Dan,
I have to agree that if an existing code base is migrated to
Apache, it should not mean that all maintenance ceases on the
existing code. There are good reasons for projects dependent on the
existing code base to be able to stay
If the whole goal is for the 2 external projects to
"merge" and become one ASF project, then there must
be a point in time when the external ones no longer
exist. If the intent is that these 2 external projects
will continue to co-exist while the "merged" project
is also expected to grow and devel
Craig L Russell wrote:
I'd expect that new feature development is done only on the Apache line,
though I don't know how Apache can require that...
I would hope so. But the very nature of our license doesn't demand this.
I hope that all of the parties to this new effort bring their sincere e
Hi Dan,
I have to agree that if an existing code base is migrated to Apache,
it should not mean that all maintenance ceases on the existing code.
There are good reasons for projects dependent on the existing code
base to be able to stay on it and not move to the Apache line just
because t
What about maintaining both as branches of the CeltiXFire project?
- Brett
On 01/07/06, Dan Diephouse <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
+1 - The XFire community will definitely still need the ability to make
releases after we graduate. As you said, there are big incompatabile
changes (I think of this
+1 - The XFire community will definitely still need the ability to make
releases after we graduate. As you said, there are big incompatabile
changes (I think of this as like a 2.0) and its a merge, so we can't
leave existing users in the dust.
- Dan
Guillaume Nodet wrote:
Could you please e
Hi Jim and Dan,
Yes, Celtix team might have do point releases as well.
- Adi
On 6/30/06, Jim Jagielski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Yes, up until the podling can make releases, the old
"external" projects still can do releases. However,
it's expected that once the podling starts releases,
that t
Could you please explain the rational behind that ?
When merging two existing code bases, the two community will
certainly focus on the merge, but existing users should not be
left without any support. Even when the podling start
release something, there are big changes that the new project
will
Yes, up until the podling can make releases, the old
"external" projects still can do releases. However,
it's expected that once the podling starts releases,
that the 2 external ones shut down.
On Jun 30, 2006, at 9:30 AM, Dan Diephouse wrote:
Hi Jim,
Even once we're in the incubator the XFire
Hi Jim,
Even once we're in the incubator the XFire project will still have to do
releases. We have a 1.2 release in progress and will be doing bug fix
releases as well. Additionally, I would imagine IONA might want to
issue a bug fix release at some point for Celtix. I can't really comment
on
We've handled these types of things before, for example
with SpamAssassin and Cayenne, when external codebases
were being folded into the incubator. What they've done
is mention on the old sites that the projects are
now ASF Incubator projects, etc... The intent is that
until the code has been rel
Robert +1
I think also, given that I understand that the Celtix and XFire
projects will remain alive outside, at least for the initial future,
that it would help reduce confusion to have a separate and distinct
name for the Apache project.
Paul
On 6/30/06, robert burrell donkin <[EMAIL PROTECTE
On 6/21/06, Justin Erenkrantz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On 6/21/06, Dan Diephouse <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Currently the plan is to leave both the old websites & docs will at the
> old locations. And XFire will be making release until Celtixfire
> releases a .0 release. I think Celtix will
proposed project. We'll stay as late as needed to
answer any questions.
Debbie
-Original Message-
From: Adinarayana Sakala [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, June 26, 2006 5:54 PM
To: general@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] CeltiXfire Project
Hi Sanjiva,
Hi Sanjiva,
Adi, can you confirm that from IONA's perspective the project is a
JAX-WS implementation along with additional stuff for security, RM etc.?
CeltiXfire is aimed at developing various SOA infrastructure
components, including JAX-WS, WS-* stuff but not limited just to them,
as I hope w
On Jun 24, 2006, at 10:56 PM, Alan D. Cabrera wrote:
robert burrell donkin wrote:
committing is just a privilage with no legal status. commit status
can be
easily revocated by
This is interesting
the board,
I can see this
the members,
How can this happen?
The members can do anything in
robert burrell donkin wrote:
On 6/22/06, Davanum Srinivas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Matthias,
FYI, Once you are an Apache committer. You are one for life. Unless
you voluntarily peition people to revoke your id and karma.
-1
committing is just a privilage with no legal status. commit stat
On Sat, 2006-06-24 at 13:28 -0400, Dan Diephouse wrote:
> Sanjiva Weerawarana wrote:
> > I thought XFire does all these specs too
> > (http://xfire.codehaus.org/Stack+Comparison; except for obviously
> > JAX-WSA as that's not even done yet). So what part of Celtix (other than
> > the name) is in Ce
Sanjiva Weerawarana wrote:
I thought XFire does all these specs too
(http://xfire.codehaus.org/Stack+Comparison; except for obviously
JAX-WSA as that's not even done yet). So what part of Celtix (other than
the name) is in Celtixfire in that case?
Celtix has JAX-WS nearly fully done (hard to
I'd sat let Hani in perhaps he has some better ideas of how things should be done. If not,
then he can wax eloquent about what went wrong. Either way...it will be a win and most entertaining.
Sanjiva Weerawarana wrote:
On Tue, 2006-06-20 at 13:52 -0400, Sakala, Adinarayana wrote:
== Ini
Fremantle [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2006 12:39 PM
> To: general@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] CeltiXfire Project
>
>
> I think there is a very clear distinction between an intermediary
> (like a JBI container, Mule, ServiceMix, Synaps
> Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] CeltiXfire Project
>
>
> (can you please fix your mailer to
>* not break email threading
>* wrap lines
> thanks!)
>
> On Wed, Jun 21, 2006 at 01:44:36PM -0400, Sakala, Adinarayana wrote:
> > > ? The one JSR mentioned above is
Dims,
(I appologize if this doesn't "thread" properly. I'm replying to a message in
a digest as I wasn't a subsciber to this list until a few minutes ago. I'm
not sure how well that works.)
> Are u with me so far?
>
> - CeltixFire's vision is to be a SOA Infrastructure project with all
> t
I think there is a very clear distinction between an intermediary
(like a JBI container, Mule, ServiceMix, Synapse, etc) and a Web
Service client and server framework. While I agree with you that the
term ESB is pretty vacuous, it is clear that all the ESB code out
there fits into the world as som
On Thu, 2006-06-22 at 18:06 +0200, James Strachan wrote:
> Lots of people use the ESB word these days to talk about lots of
> different kinds of technology, so its a pretty meaningless term. (e.g.
> Some Synapse folks claim its an ESB too while others claim its an
> Axis2 mediation framework).
We
So, Could the principals involved drop all the marketing stuff and
call it what it is?
"A SOAP Engine that implements multiple JSR's, databindings,
transports, supports multiple WS-* protocols and can work with non-XML
data"?
Thanks,
dims
On 6/22/06, James Strachan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
L
Lots of people use the ESB word these days to talk about lots of
different kinds of technology, so its a pretty meaningless term. (e.g.
Some Synapse folks claim its an ESB too while others claim its an
Axis2 mediation framework).
So its better to focus on the specifications which are the aims of
On Thu, 2006-06-22 at 17:30 +0200, James Strachan wrote:
>
> CeltixFire is aimed at implementing the JAX-WS/JAX-WSA/JSR-181
> standards which are the newer standards for working with SOAP &
> WS-Addressing on the Java platform
Thanks for the clarification. So its basically an alternate to Axis2 a
On 6/21/06, Sanjiva Weerawarana <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
In any case, the framework part seems just like what JBI impls like
ServiceMix are doing and what JBI alternates like SCA (Tuscany) are
doing. Since James is a mentor of this maybe he can explain the
relationship (or lack thereof) between
On 6/22/06, Davanum Srinivas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Dan,
ok. let's stick to the technical side for a minute and let me layout a logic.
- Tuscany started with an Axis1 binding and then they added Axis2.
When Celtix guys wanted to do the same, We welcomed Dan and got him
cranking.
- So Tuscan
Hani is a good guy. He really understands technology, he's honest, he's
open and he has a utterly wicked and warped sense of humor.
I count him as a friend of mine, and I certainly have no problem with
him becoming a committer for CeltixFire.
BileBlog is satire with almost always a grain of trut
Its also worth remembering that Hani is also a member of the JCP
Executive Committee and contributes alot to both Java & J2SE standards
as well as numerous open source projects. I know Hani pretty well and
he'll be an awesome addition to any Apache project. The bileblog is
simply an extremely funn
On 6/22/06, Davanum Srinivas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Matthias,
FYI, Once you are an Apache committer. You are one for life. Unless
you voluntarily peition people to revoke your id and karma.
-1
committing is just a privilage with no legal status. commit status can be
easily revocated by
Believe me james! that's how i initially took it :) In fact i told my
fellow troops its an honor [1]
-- dims
[1] http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=axis-dev&m=114711015426370&w=2
On 6/22/06, James Strachan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Being 'biled' should be taken as a compliment :)
On 6/21/06, Da
Being 'biled' should be taken as a compliment :)
On 6/21/06, Davanum Srinivas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Well, you should be on the other side like i was [1] or the tomcat
folks were and face it. I higly recommend it. it's depressing and
demoralizing to say the least.
-- dims
[1] http://jrolle
(can you please fix your mailer to
* not break email threading
* wrap lines
thanks!)
On Wed, Jun 21, 2006 at 01:44:36PM -0400, Sakala, Adinarayana wrote:
> > ? The one JSR mentioned above is 181 which I believe is part of Java
> > EE and not the JDK, right?
> I belive JSR 181 is part of EE.
ah :)
thx,
On 6/21/06, Davanum Srinivas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Matthias,
FYI, Once you are an Apache committer. You are one for life. Unless
you voluntarily peition people to revoke your id and karma.
-- dims
-
To unsu
Matthias,
FYI, Once you are an Apache committer. You are one for life. Unless
you voluntarily peition people to revoke your id and karma.
-- dims
On 6/21/06, Matthias Wessendorf <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Thomas and Jason pointed already out,
that is very active in the JCP (Java Community Proc
Thomas and Jason pointed already out,
that is very active in the JCP (Java Community Process).
Also, I agree with Thomas, that there always is a possibility to *remove* sb.
-Matthias
On 6/21/06, Sanjiva Weerawarana <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On Wed, 2006-06-21 at 21:53 +0200, Thomas Dudziak wr
On Wed, 2006-06-21 at 21:53 +0200, Thomas Dudziak wrote:
>
> While I haven't met Hani in person, I don't think it is ok to judge
> him after his blog. After all it is satire (and damn funny at times).
Its not about whether his blogs are funny but rather whether he'll help
build communities or not
Dan,
ok. let's stick to the technical side for a minute and let me layout a logic.
- Tuscany started with an Axis1 binding and then they added Axis2.
When Celtix guys wanted to do the same, We welcomed Dan and got him
cranking.
- So Tuscany is better off now as a container that supports multiple
On 21 Jun 06, at 10:03 AM 21 Jun 06, Sanjiva Weerawarana wrote:
Is Hani seriously going to participate in an Apache meritocracy or is
this some kind of joke?
You can't take any of what he says in that blog seriously. He's
equally slammed Maven, and generally what he's said has some grain o
On 6/21/06, Mladen Turk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Thomas Dudziak wrote:
>
> Anyway, I think it is important that we judge a person by what he does
> rather than by what we think we know about him (and a satiric blog is
> probably not a good source).
You are completely wrong with that.
There ca
On 6/21/06, Hiram Chirino <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
CXFilre sounds good to me ;-)
Doh... replace with: CXFire
On 6/21/06, Justin Erenkrantz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 6/21/06, Dan Diephouse <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Currently the plan is to leave both the old websites & docs will a
CXFilre sounds good to me ;-)
On 6/21/06, Justin Erenkrantz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On 6/21/06, Dan Diephouse <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Currently the plan is to leave both the old websites & docs will at the
> old locations. And XFire will be making release until Celtixfire
> releases a .0
On 6/21/06, Dan Diephouse <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Currently the plan is to leave both the old websites & docs will at the
old locations. And XFire will be making release until Celtixfire
releases a .0 release. I think Celtix will probably make some 1.x or
1.0.x releases as well.
Given that,
Thomas Dudziak wrote:
Anyway, I think it is important that we judge a person by what he does
rather than by what we think we know about him (and a satiric blog is
probably not a good source).
You are completely wrong with that.
There can be no healthy community without at least
minimal mutual
Thomas Dudziak wrote:
(Btw, I don't know whether it's him anyway, because the name is
spelled differently.)
It was meant to be Hani Suleiman. I spelled his name wrong on the
proposal and corrected it in the wiki immediately proceeding our submission.
- Dan
--
Dan Diephouse
Envoi Solutions
htt
Anyway, I think it is important that we judge a person by what he does
rather than by what we think we know about him (and a satiric blog is
probably not a good source). If Hani would like to work within the
ASF, great, let him do so. And if the project then decides that he
does not get the ASF wa
On 6/21/06, Davanum Srinivas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Well, you should be on the other side like i was [1] or the tomcat
folks were and face it. I higly recommend it. it's depressing and
demoralizing to say the least.
Sure, it wouldn't be fun if my project were the target of his bile,
and I'
Justin Erenkrantz wrote:
On 6/21/06, Mika Göckel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hey!
It has been chosen from some (weird) alternatives in a discussion
between (some of) the listed intial committers.
From my point of (not native speaker's) view, it has karma, it's
expressive and not technical (I pe
Thomas Dudziak wrote:
While I haven't met Hani in person, I don't think it is ok to judge
him after his blog. After all it is satire (and damn funny at times).
Call me stupid. I don't find his stuff funny.
If he has some thoughts about the ASF, then he can
very well stay where he is nowadays.
Well, you should be on the other side like i was [1] or the tomcat
folks were and face it. I higly recommend it. it's depressing and
demoralizing to say the least.
-- dims
[1] http://jroller.com/page/fate?entry=axis2_why_bother
On 6/21/06, Thomas Dudziak <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On 6/21/06
Justin Erenkrantz wrote:
On 6/21/06, Mladen Turk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
That kind of person, has nothing in common
with anything ASF stands for thought.
ASF membership is distinct from committership. If Hani evidences
merit for a particular project as judged by his peers on the project,
t
On 6/21/06, Mladen Turk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
First of all, I don't care about that proposal,
but I'll be strongly against having Hani as an
ASF community participant.
Just take a look at his (Why I hate Tomcat):
http://www.jroller.com/page/fate/20060420
That kind of person, has nothing i
On 6/21/06, Mladen Turk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
That kind of person, has nothing in common
with anything ASF stands for thought.
ASF membership is distinct from committership. If Hani evidences
merit for a particular project as judged by his peers on the project,
then I have zero objections
On 6/21/06, Mika Göckel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hey!
It has been chosen from some (weird) alternatives in a discussion
between (some of) the listed intial committers.
From my point of (not native speaker's) view, it has karma, it's
expressive and not technical (I personally don't like too de
Sanjiva Weerawarana wrote:
On Tue, 2006-06-20 at 13:52 -0400, Sakala, Adinarayana wrote:
== Initial Committers ==
...
* Hani Suileman
Wow. Interesting. Never imagined Hani'd come our way. See for example
his latest masterpiece from
http://www.jroller.com/page/fate/?anchor=defecating_on_a_jd
Sanjiva Weerawarana wrote:
>
> In any case, the framework part seems just like what JBI impls like
> ServiceMix are doing and what JBI alternates like SCA (Tuscany) are
> doing. Since James is a mentor of this maybe he can explain the
> relationship (or lack thereof) between Celtixfire and Service
Hey!
It has been chosen from some (weird) alternatives in a discussion
between (some of) the listed intial committers.
From my point of (not native speaker's) view, it has karma, it's
expressive and not technical (I personally don't like too descriptive
names or even acronyms).
My opinion is,
On Tue, 2006-06-20 at 13:52 -0400, Sakala, Adinarayana wrote:
> == Core Developers == The CeltiXfire project's initial committers
> include a diverse set of individuals. Some of the individuals are
> employed by Envoi Solutions, IONA, BEA, LogicBlaze and Red Hat, and
> some are not funded by any
On 6/21/06, Sakala, Adinarayana <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
The CeltiXfire project is...
BTW, has the community settled upon this new name or is this just a
working name until something better can be selected? -- justin
-
To u
On Wed, 2006-06-21 at 13:44 -0400, Sakala, Adinarayana wrote:
> > Trying myself, I've always understood XFire to be a direct alternative
> > for Axis1 (I have yet to get to grips with Axis2, but I assume
> > some of the same is true there), aka a "SOAP stack". Is that somewhat
> > true? And then, i
ne 21, 2006 1:45 PM
> To: general@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: RE: [PROPOSAL] CeltiXfire Project
>
>
> > Well-written proposal.
> Thanks.
>
> > Nevertheless, do you think there's any
> > chance someone could give a technical summary of the above that the
iki.apache.org/incubator/CeltiXfireProposal
[2] - http://java.sun.com/javase/6/docs/api/index.html
Regards,
Adi Sakala
> -Original Message-
> From: Leo Simons [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 8:31 AM
> To: general@incubator.apache.org
> Subject:
On Wed, 2006-06-21 at 09:46 -0400, Dan Diephouse wrote:
> Please, Hani has been a great contributor to the XFire project:
>
> http://fisheye.codehaus.org/changelog/~author=hani/xfire/
>
> Not only has he contributed code, he has written documentation and
> helped users out on the mailing list/ir
to.
[1] - http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/CeltiXfireProposal
Thanks,
Adi
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of
> Yoav Shapira
> Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 6:47 AM
> To: general@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: [PROPO
Justin Erenkrantz wrote:
On 6/21/06, Yoav Shapira <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Do you think its useful to have individual employer?
> Obviously if anyone wants more detailed info I am happy to provide
that.
I do think it's useful. If it's a pain to update the proposal to
reflect these indivi
Hi Dims,
Comments inline.
Davanum Srinivas wrote:
Folks,
I don't even know where to start. 32 people? wow!
Keep in mind we're merging two distinct communties, its additive. If you
have ideas on how to create a somewhat smaller list without presupposing
that a person won't contribute, I'm al
On 6/21/06, Yoav Shapira <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Do you think its useful to have individual employer?
> Obviously if anyone wants more detailed info I am happy to provide that.
I do think it's useful. If it's a pain to update the proposal to
reflect these individual associations, I apologi
Please, Hani has been a great contributor to the XFire project:
http://fisheye.codehaus.org/changelog/~author=hani/xfire/
Not only has he contributed code, he has written documentation and
helped users out on the mailing list/irc. While you may not like what
he says on his blog, anyone that h
On Tue, Jun 20, 2006 at 01:52:02PM -0400, Sakala, Adinarayana wrote:
> Below is a project proposal for incubation consideration.
Well-written proposal. Merging two codebases is hard though!
What is it?
---
> Project CeltiXfire is a SOA infrastructure framework focused on
> implementatio
Hi,
The reason why individual employer weren't added for each person is because some
might read such individual association to mean that people behind the proposal
believe
that it is really their companies who are part of the project rather than the
individuals.
For people who've earned karm
Folks,
I don't even know where to start. 32 people? wow!
I was looking for discussions on the celtix-dev@ [1] on xfire-dev@ [2]
and was unpleasantly surprised when i found nothing. I wanted to get
some background on what the integration points are between the 2
engines and did not find any. In f
On Tue, 2006-06-20 at 13:52 -0400, Sakala, Adinarayana wrote:
>
> == Initial Committers ==
...
> * Hani Suileman
Wow. Interesting. Never imagined Hani'd come our way. See for example
his latest masterpiece from
http://www.jroller.com/page/fate/?anchor=defecating_on_a_jdk:
"In a rather perplexi
Just an FYI, I somehow screwed up and one of the XFire committers got
removed from the list before it went into the Wiki. I corrected this
added Christoph Sturm back into the proposal in the wiki. Apologies for
the noise!
Cheers,
- Dan
Sakala, Adinarayana wrote:
Hello,
Below is a project pr
e detailed info I am happy to provide that.
Regards,
Adi Sakala
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of
> Yoav Shapira
> Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 2:28 PM
> To: general@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] CeltiX
Hola,
Cool overall. Would it be possible to detail the affiliations of the
(relatively large) initial committers, so that we can tell how homo-
or heterogeneous that community is at the moment?
Yoav
On 6/20/06, Sakala, Adinarayana <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hello,
Below is a project proposal
Hello,
Below is a project proposal for incubation consideration.
The project welcomes your feedback as well as interest in involvement.
This proposal is also located online at
http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/CeltiXfireProposal
== CeltiXfire Proposal ==
Project CeltiXfire is a SOA infrastruct
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