Re: proposal: mentor re-boot

Hi - We could better spend our energy looking at podlings with Mentor problems and deciding which of three possible states fits the podling. - "Failed" - no community is trully involved and there is nothing an active mentor could do. Let's just admit it and retire the podling. - "Needs Help" -

RE: What is "The Apache Way"?

Sorry I seem to have deleted a para from the below when editing for send. The para was "also on this site you will find http://community.apache.org/speakers/slides.html which has decks from different people with titles like): •Open Innovation in The Apache Software Foundation •Writing and Dist

RE: What is "The Apache Way"?

It's process vs. culture. We shouldn't get hung up on process. Our bylaws (as a foundation) dictate that the board set the formal policies. This is pretty much a requirement of the way we have to be structured to get 501c(3) status. Someone needs to be accountable. So, yes, the board votes on

[jira] [Created] (INCUBATOR-128) Wrong email address in sample PPMC invitation email

Julian Hyde created INCUBATOR-128: - Summary: Wrong email address in sample PPMC invitation email Key: INCUBATOR-128 URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INCUBATOR-128 Project: Incubator

RE: What is "The Apache Way"?

Years ago I started creating a "signpost" site over on http://community.apache.org which was intended provide a simplified gateway to our copious documents that describe the Apache Way in all its glory. Since then a few people have contributed to it. Our goal is to keep it simple, leave the det

Re: What is "The Apache Way"?

> > Members should look to the board to enforce policy, not define it (Though > Directors are members and will be involved with the definition) > This disagrees with much that the Foundation has published. In example: "The membership of the ASF elects the 9 member board to run the foundation and

Re: What is "The Apache Way"?

On 1/8/15, 10:49 AM, "Ross Gardler (MS OPEN TECH)" wrote: >top down rules you describe below - as you seem to be implying that >should not exist in the Apache Way apart from a few immutable areas and I >agree. But what are the few immutable areas? Why isn’t there a link to a page that lists t

Re: proposal: mentor re-boot

On Thu, Jan 08, 2015 at 10:11:03AM -0800, Alan D. Cabrera wrote: > > > On Jan 8, 2015, at 10:06 AM, Ross Gardler (MS OPEN TECH) > > wrote: > > > > +1 > > > > All we care about is that the podling has an active mentor who knows when > > to ask for support and gets that support when they need i

Re: proposal: mentor re-boot

> On Jan 8, 2015, at 10:12 AM, Ross Gardler (MS OPEN TECH) > wrote: > > I'm not seeing how this proposal fixes the problem either. However, I do like > that this proposal doesn't move responsibility and I like that it adds some > teeth to the IPMC (e.g. removal of inactive mentors and pausing

Re: What is "The Apache Way"?

On Thu, Jan 8, 2015 at 1:49 PM, Ross Gardler (MS OPEN TECH) < ross.gard...@microsoft.com> wrote: > To be clear my email was not targeted at Marvin. We all know how hard > Marvin has worked to create the clear policy documents I talk about here. I > hope Marvin knows me well enough to recognize my

RE: What is "The Apache Way"?

To be clear my email was not targeted at Marvin. We all know how hard Marvin has worked to create the clear policy documents I talk about here. I hope Marvin knows me well enough to recognize my debating style. This is not about *him* it's about the impression of the top down rules you describe

RE: proposal: mentor re-boot

Yes, Benson. You should take it as a compliment that if the board invite you to do remain and you agree then they trust you to be their "eyes and ears", and if necessary the person they turn to in order to investigate a potentially issue. That's different from the mentor role in the IPMC though.

Re: proposal: mentor re-boot

On Thu, Jan 8, 2015 at 1:16 PM, Ross Gardler (MS OPEN TECH) < ross.gard...@microsoft.com> wrote: > Chip is correct. The tools we use in board meetings make it easy for us to > see how many PMC members in a TLP resolution are members. If there are not > enough we will sometimes put the project on a

RE: proposal: mentor re-boot

An ASF release needs three binding +1 votes (I see you say two but in your proposal but that would require a policy change in the ASF which I doubt will happen). If there is only a single mentor approaches the IPMC to ask for those votes. As a single active mentor on projects I have both asked t

Re: Incubator report sign-off

On Mon, Jan 5, 2015 at 5:49 PM, Andrew Purtell wrote: >> One extra thing to note, that while we can *start* this comittee as > dedicated >> > to Incubating projects, it will be a very natural extension to get it > involved >> > in monitoring all of TLPs, not just pTLPs. > > What problem exists tod

Re: Incubator report sign-off

On Mon, Jan 5, 2015 at 5:41 PM, Andrew Purtell wrote: >> An addition of the overseeing committee, will shield the board from >> > *some* of the day-to-day business of telling the pTLP that something >> > needs to be fixed. > > Is this pretty close to IPMC in another name? No it isn't. First of al

RE: proposal: mentor re-boot

Chip is correct. The tools we use in board meetings make it easy for us to see how many PMC members in a TLP resolution are members. If there are not enough we will sometimes put the project on an informal "watch list" (as well as ensuring appropriate people from the PMC go on the members watch

RE: proposal: mentor re-boot

pTLP adds a great deal of overhead to the board unless there is a review process somewhere else. I've posted on this before so will not repeat here beyond summarizing as moving responsibility for the problem does not fix the problem. I'm not seeing how this proposal fixes the problem either. Ho

Re: proposal: mentor re-boot

> On Jan 8, 2015, at 10:06 AM, Ross Gardler (MS OPEN TECH) > wrote: > > +1 > > All we care about is that the podling has an active mentor who knows when to > ask for support and gets that support when they need it. Following that statement to a logical conclusion, all podlings need to make

Re: [VOTE] [PROPOSAL] Accept OpenAz (Access Control Tools) into the Apache Incubator

+1 On Thu, Jan 8, 2015 at 7:14 PM, DRAGOSH, PAMELA L (PAM) < pdrag...@research.att.com> wrote: > +1 > > > Pam > > Pamela L. Dragosh > PMTS ­ Research > One AT&T Way > 4D-170P > Bedminster, NJ 07921 > 908-901-2120 - Office > pdrag...@research.att.com > > > > On 1/5/15, 2:04 PM, "Hal Lockhart" wro

RE: proposal: mentor re-boot

+1 All we care about is that the podling has an active mentor who knows when to ask for support and gets that support when they need it. Ross Microsoft Open Technologies, Inc. A subsidiary of Microsoft Corporation -Original Message- From: Branko Čibej [mailto:br...@apache.org] Sent: T

RE: proposal: mentor re-boot

Sorry not caught up with the full thread so I will not critique the overall proposal until I have. However, I have a concern with the abolition of the champion role. I don't care about the title of the role, but the champion is much more than "merely a mentor who is publicly stating that s/he wi

Re: proposal: mentor re-boot

On 08/01/15 16:48, Chip Childers wrote: On Wed, Jan 07, 2015 at 08:18:59PM -0800, Marvin Humphrey wrote: Retiring the role of Champion sounds like an idea whose time has come. We gave the Champion additional oversight responsibilities a while back -- but how many times since then has having tha

Re: What is "The Apache Way"?

On Thu, Jan 8, 2015 at 11:01 AM, Ross Gardler (MS OPEN TECH) < ross.gard...@microsoft.com> wrote: > WTF? There have been presentations about the apache way at every ApacheCon > for about 15 years (twice in most years). I personally give 5-10 such > presentations a year (sometimes public sometimes

Re: proposal: mentor re-boot

On Wed, Jan 07, 2015 at 08:18:59PM -0800, Marvin Humphrey wrote: > Retiring the role of Champion sounds like an idea whose time has come. We > gave the Champion additional oversight responsibilities a while back -- but > how many times since then has having that additional layer made a difference?

Re: proposal: mentor re-boot

On Wed, Jan 07, 2015 at 05:20:40PM -0800, Henry Saputra wrote: > +1 > > I would recommend to remove that particular line about mentor staying > as mentor sake. > Either mentors join in as full fledge PMC (and as committer) or not at all. +1, with the one comment that I've heard the board(s) revie

Re: proposal: mentor re-boot

On Thu, Jan 8, 2015 at 7:05 AM, Branko Čibej wrote: > On 08.01.2015 15:32, Alan D. Cabrera wrote: >> The two mentor minimum is critical. I was going to make it three but >> reasoned that if two were active, they could do the job. > > Why? I've not yet seen a single argument that would explain why

RE: What is "The Apache Way"?

WTF? There have been presentations about the apache way at every ApacheCon for about 15 years (twice in most years). I personally give 5-10 such presentations a year (sometimes public sometimes not). I'm sure many others here do the same. The Apache Way is really simple. There are very few immut

Re: What is "The Apache Way"?

On 08.01.2015 05:30, Marvin Humphrey wrote: > On Wed, Jan 7, 2015 at 12:54 PM, Alan D. Cabrera wrote: > >> Some podlings are graduating w/ no clear understanding of the Apache Way. > What is "The Apache Way"? No one can say. > > There is no bounded set of expectations that an Apache project must

Re: proposal: mentor re-boot

On 08.01.2015 15:32, Alan D. Cabrera wrote: > The two mentor minimum is critical. I was going to make it three but > reasoned that if two were active, they could do the job. Why? I've not yet seen a single argument that would explain why you need at least two active mentors. One active mentor at a

Re: proposal: mentor re-boot

> On Jan 8, 2015, at 3:03 AM, jan i wrote: > > On Wednesday, January 7, 2015, Alan D. Cabrera > wrote: > >> >>> On Jan 7, 2015, at 10:46 AM, jan i > >> wrote: >>> >>> On 7 January 2015 at 19:32, Alan D. Cabrera > > wrote: >>> > On Jan 7, 2015, at 10:13

Re: [VOTE] [PROPOSAL] Accept OpenAz (Access Control Tools) into the Apache Incubator

+1 Pam Pamela L. Dragosh PMTS ­ Research One AT&T Way 4D-170P Bedminster, NJ 07921 908-901-2120 - Office pdrag...@research.att.com On 1/5/15, 2:04 PM, "Hal Lockhart" wrote: >I added a comma and the word "and" to the Mentors section. The Mentors >are: > >Emmanuel Lécharny, Colm O hEigeartaig

Re: proposal: mentor re-boot

On Wednesday, January 7, 2015, Alan D. Cabrera wrote: > > > On Jan 7, 2015, at 10:46 AM, jan i > > wrote: > > > > On 7 January 2015 at 19:32, Alan D. Cabrera > wrote: > > > >> > >>> On Jan 7, 2015, at 10:13 AM, Branko Čibej > wrote: > >>> > >>> On 07.01.2015 18:42, Alan D. Cabrera wrote: >