Noel J. Bergman wrote:
See http://httpd.apache.org/dev/release.html for the httpd project's
guidelines. They use the term "release" the way that Jakarta projects will
use the term "build", but the overall effect is the same. See
http://jakarta.apache.org/site/binindex.cgi for a description of th
robert burrell donkin wrote:
On Friday, September 19, 2003, at 07:56 AM, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
Noel J. Bergman wrote:
...
I don't doubt it, and the proof ought to be in the ones that have
already
done so. I do ask if the PMC doing anything to help encourage other
projects to matriculate?
L
Steven Noels wrote:
Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
Should we make a poll so that we can see what others think?
Yawn.
Listen dudes: things were pretty busy when the Lenya/Xopus issue
happened - so thanks Nicola, as a member of the Cocoon PMC, for stepping
forward. Before Nicola however appeared on th
> > Capital R. A "Release" build is a specific notion within the ASF. Not
all
> > builds are created equal, and no one was talking about distribution from
CVS
> > only.
> Would you mind to explain me what the specific notion means?
See http://httpd.apache.org/dev/release.html for the httpd proj
Noel J. Bergman wrote:
Capital R. A "Release" build is a specific notion within the ASF. Not all
builds are created equal, and no one was talking about distribution from CVS
only.
Would you mind to explain me what the specific notion means?
Regards,
Jochen
--
Roy T. Fielding wrote:
> Personally, I think it is an excellent proposal except for one item:
> Java is not the center of the universe. Either this project should
> consider all languages (seems unlikely, unless you already have those
> other people in place), or the project should be named after
Jochen Wiedmann wrote:
> Noel J. Bergman wrote:
> > I am not on the Incubator PMC, but I feel that a project still bearing
> > incubator status should not be permitted to make a Release.
> I do not know what exactly you define as a "release". Is that more than a
> distribution?
Capital R. A "Rel
Jochen Wiedmann wrote:
Noel J. Bergman wrote:
I am not on the Incubator PMC, but I feel that a project still bearing
incubator status should not be permitted to make a Release.
I do not know what exactly you define as a "release". Is that more than
a distribution?
An incubator project is expec
Ted Leung wrote:
> Minimum size is not enough here. There also needs to be a diversity
> requirement. For example XMLBeans must have no more than 50% of its
> committers from a single organization.
Good exit criteria.
--- Noel
-
Roy T. Fielding wrote:
Greg posted a message back on the 18th noting that a PMC vote on the
entry of the project to the incubator would be kicked off under the
private [EMAIL PROTECTED] list. I don't know the specifics of Incubator
voting policies but I guessing we will see a vote result early
On Sun, 21 Sep 2003, Roy T. Fielding wrote:
> Personally, I think it is an excellent proposal except for one item:
> Java is not the center of the universe. Either this project should
> consider all languages (seems unlikely, unless you already have those
> other people in place), or the projec
On 9/21/2003 7:37 PM, Noel J. Bergman wrote:
Berin,
http://nagoya.apache.org/wiki/apachewiki.cgi?IncubatorMussings
Had a read. Great stuff :>.
At a quick glance, I see some things to change.
- there has not been stated a minimum community size to start
Minimum size is not e
Really agreed.
And I think this could go for the FTPServer and AltRMI, too.
If you do not have any dist, we (you) can not build
"healthy" community banning on dist would be an obstacle.
__ Tetsuya <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> __
On Mon, 22 Sep 2003 07:07:46 +0200
(Subject: Re: Getting the distribut
Noel J. Bergman wrote:
I am not on the Incubator PMC, but I feel that a project still bearing
incubator status should not be permitted to make a Release.
I do not know what exactly you define as a "release". Is that more than a
distribution?
An incubator project is expected to build a community.
Greg posted a message back on the 18th noting that a PMC vote on the
entry of the project to the incubator would be kicked off under the
private [EMAIL PROTECTED] list. I don't know the specifics of Incubator
voting policies but I guessing we will see a vote result early next
week.
I saw that.
> From: "Noel J. Bergman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> In my view, the Sponsoring PMC *should* take an active role. But the
> Incubator PMC is still responsible for making sure that all of criteria are
> met before letting it into the ASF proper. Looking over the document, the
> Sponsoring PMC would b
> Go for it!
Did. Done. But I did not incorporate the other comments relating directly
to Berin's question, so ...
> I'm still thinking about Berin's questions but I think your response
> makes sence - (I'm thinking about actual scenarios and how this may
> pan-out with an eye for the potential
> From: Berin Lautenbach [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2003 6:35 PM
>
> > From: Stephen McConnell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> > http://nagoya.apache.org/wiki/apachewiki.cgi?IncubatorMussings
>
> Steve,
>
> Had a read. Great stuff :>.
>
> One question to all that I have been t
Noel J. Bergman wrote:
http://nagoya.apache.org/wiki/apachewiki.cgi?IncubatorMussings
Had a read. Great stuff :>.
At a quick glance, I see some things to change.
- there has not been stated a minimum community size to start
The document does state the a candidate *s
http://nagoya.apache.org/wiki/apachewiki.cgi?IncubatorMussings
>>>Had a read. Great stuff :>.
>>At a quick glance, I see some things to change.
>>
>> - there has not been stated a minimum community size to start
>>
> The document does state the a candidate *shall* [have] a community of at
> le
Noel J. Bergman wrote:
Berin,
http://nagoya.apache.org/wiki/apachewiki.cgi?IncubatorMussings
Had a read. Great stuff :>.
At a quick glance, I see some things to change.
- there has not been stated a minimum community size to start
The document does state the a candidate *shall
Berin,
> > http://nagoya.apache.org/wiki/apachewiki.cgi?IncubatorMussings
>
> Had a read. Great stuff :>.
At a quick glance, I see some things to change.
- there has not been stated a minimum community size to start
- it has been explicitly stated that a project does NOT need
to have its e
Ted,
> if there is a version that has been finished / super tested, etc,
> it seems a little sily not to make it stable.
Stable, yes. Labeled as an ASF Release, no. In my view.
I am not on the Incubator PMC, but I feel that a project still bearing
incubator status should not be permitted to ma
If this were accepted as the process it would really clarify several
questions I have had about incubation. It has been engineered well.
Alex
> -Original Message-
> From: Berin Lautenbach [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2003 9:35 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sub
Copying to [EMAIL PROTECTED] for policy check.
On 9/20/2003 1:54 AM, robert burrell donkin wrote:
IIRC incubating projects should not create full releases (the reason
being that the ASF makes a long term commitment to maintain all full
releases) until the incubation process is finished (but thi
> From: Stephen McConnell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> http://nagoya.apache.org/wiki/apachewiki.cgi?IncubatorMussings
Steve,
Had a read. Great stuff :>.
One question to all that I have been trying to
get clear in my head. What is the break up of
responsibility between the Incubator PMC and the
Spons
Please send some info on Apache Geronimo
__
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
F
> From: Tetsuya Kitahata <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> I'd like to say, "Those who would write articles in the newsletter
> draft, are worthy to become members, because they really care
> for the foundation as a whole". Also, I'll give an announcement
> (=call) at members@ not community@ in the next time.
Tetsuya,
> > Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics.
> ROTFL. Statistics won't tell a lie.
> Would you like to damn off the Vadim's
> http://www.apache.org/~vgritsenko/stats/index.html
No. However, someone naively looking at them, and not knowing about
mirroring and the inconsistent state across
Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
I said nothing about documentation, process, policy or accountability.
LOL
We certainly agree on this!
:-)
--
Stephen J. McConnell
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED
> From: Tetsuya Kitahata [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 12:04 AM
> On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 11:25:35 -0400
> Rodent of Unusual Size <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > the foundation *as a whole*. presumably you care about the welfare
> > of japan, but don't know what's goi
In the meantime, despite the choice of rhetoric, and making it sound as if
there was an unaccountable process, Stephen has posted a page that does
warrant review, especially by those who have actual Incubator experience.
http://nagoya.apache.org/wiki/apachewiki.cgi?IncubatorMussings
I suspect t
On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 10:12:17 -0400
"Noel J. Bergman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Statistics would not tell a lie. No prejudice, no favoritism.
> Actually, in the USA we have a famous expression:
> Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics.
> Statistics provide a false sense of objectivity.
Ahaha. R
On Sunday, Sep 21, 2003, at 17:22 Europe/Rome, Rodent of Unusual Size
wrote:
Stephen McConnell wrote:
Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
Ah, at the end, if a committer considers this unfair, maybe he/she
should question him/herself before questioning hundreds of his/her
peers.
Umm,
... and the "
On Sunday, Sep 21, 2003, at 14:50 Europe/Rome, Stephen McConnell wrote:
Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
Ah, at the end, if a committer considers this unfair, maybe he/she
should question him/herself before questioning hundreds of his/her
peers.
Umm,
... and the "standard member line" gets ro
On Sun, 21 Sep 2003, Sander Striker wrote:
> Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 12:59:34 +0200
> From: Sander Striker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: ASF member role - accountable to whom
>
> > From: Tetsuya Kitahata [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent:
On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 11:25:35 -0400
Rodent of Unusual Size <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> the foundation *as a whole*. presumably you care about the welfare
> of japan, but don't know what's going in in kita-kyushu unless
> you live there. that doesn't invalidate your concern about the
> country o
Rodent of Unusual Size wrote:
i refuse to be sucked any further into one of your confusions.
It's good to see we agree!
Clearly "confusion" is a central topic that underlines that issues
addressed in this thread. Obviously I'm in good company as my confusion
pales into insignificance when
Stephen McConnell wrote:
>
> I'll "knock it off" when there are a sufficiently complete set of
> policies and procedures in place (i.e. documented and adopted) such that
> the need for Member status is clearly identified as the legal aspect of
> representation of the Foundation (and/or any othe
I have prepared a new page based on the oringal content that
Berin prepared. Here is a summary of the things I changed/added:
1. cleanup of the descriptions and terminaolgy
(product/project/sub-project) etc.
2. simplification of the description of the pmc
(complemented with addition process con
Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
On Sunday, Sep 21, 2003, at 08:18 Europe/Rome, Steven Noels wrote:
... but not every PMC chair is a member (i.e. myself). Things can get
quite funny, that way. It seems like there's some cracks in the
Matrix.
It might look, admittedly, strange that an ASF officer is not
Stephen McConnell wrote:
Phil:
Greg posted a message back on the 18th noting that a PMC vote on the
entry of the project to the incubator would be kicked off under the
private [EMAIL PROTECTED] list. I don't know the specifics of Incubator
voting policies but I guessing we will see a vote resu
Rodent of Unusual Size wrote:
Stephen McConnell wrote:
Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
Ah, at the end, if a committer considers this unfair, maybe he/she
should question him/herself before questioning hundreds of his/her peers.
Umm,
... and the "standard member line" gets roll
--
Andrew C. Oliver|acoliverapache.org |2003-08-22| 144|
Nicola Ken Barozzi |nicolakenapache.org|2003-09-19| 142|
Rodent of Unusual Si|coarapache.org |2003-09-21| 141|
Greg Stein |gsteinapache.org |2003-09-19|
Tetsuya Kitahata wrote:
>
> This is what I found it hard for me to comprehend.
>
> The current *members* are caring for the "entire" foundation,
> including the jakarta/xml/ws/cocoon/james/maven/ant/db, etc.. ?
the foundation *as a whole*. presumably you care about the welfare
of japan, but do
Stephen McConnell wrote:
>
> Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
>
>> Ah, at the end, if a committer considers this unfair, maybe he/she
>> should question him/herself before questioning hundreds of his/her peers.
>
> Umm,
>
>... and the "standard member line" gets rolled out once again
>to
Tetsuya Kitahata wrote:
> Statistics would not tell a lie. No prejudice, no favoritism.
Actually, in the USA we have a famous expression:
Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics.
Statistics provide a false sense of objectivity.
--- Noel
On Friday, Sep 19, 2003, at 15:34 Europe/Rome, Rodent of Unusual Size
wrote:
Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
I still believe that the Incubation PMC doesn't make any sense at all.
oh, please, let's not start another flamewar about whether it's
needed or not. it's here; can we please just deal with it a
> From: Tetsuya Kitahata [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2003 3:07 PM
> On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 14:28:06 +0200
> Stefano Mazzocchi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > It might look, admittedly, strange that an ASF officer is not an ASF
> > member, but for the PMC chair role, the
On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 14:28:06 +0200
Stefano Mazzocchi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> It might look, admittedly, strange that an ASF officer is not an ASF
> member, but for the PMC chair role, the person has been selected
> because he cares very much about one project: this doesn't make the
> pers
Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
Ah, at the end, if a committer considers this unfair, maybe he/she
should question him/herself before questioning hundreds of his/her peers.
Umm,
... and the "standard member line" gets rolled out once again
to justify the absence of incubator documentation,
Berin Lautenbach wrote:
Stephen McConnell wrote:
If there is interest, I could try and re-word the content I put
together on the Sponsor responsibilities such that the role of
Sponsor is more oriented towards evangalist/champion, complementing
the role of Shepard.
Absolutely! The document
On Sunday, Sep 21, 2003, at 12:12 Europe/Rome, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
Stefano Mazzocchi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote on 19/09/2003 09:04:31 PM:
On Friday, Sep 19, 2003, at 05:21 Europe/Rome, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
Sam Ruby <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote on 19/09/2003 08:42:26 AM:
It took repeated a
On Sunday, Sep 21, 2003, at 08:18 Europe/Rome, Steven Noels wrote:
Noel J. Bergman wrote:
As I understand what is being said, a project is to have a sponsor
who is an
ASF Member or Officer. Note that the Incubator PMC Chair is an ASF
Officer,
as is every PMC Chair.
... but not every PMC chair
On Sunday, Sep 21, 2003, at 05:40 Europe/Rome, Stephen McConnell wrote:
Henri Yandell wrote:
On Sat, 20 Sep 2003, Steven Noels wrote:
I just want to say that this requirement of sponsors which should be
members was totally unclear to me when I started talking and working
with the BEA peeps (Clif
On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 12:30:37 +0200
(Subject: RE: ASF member role - accountable to whom)
"Sander Striker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > From: Tetsuya Kitahata [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2003 6:16 AM
>
> > I see. but here's one question. Does this "meritocracy"
> >
On Sunday, Sep 21, 2003, at 06:15 Europe/Rome, Tetsuya Kitahata wrote:
On Sat, 20 Sep 2003 22:25:53 -0400
Rodent of Unusual Size <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Tetsuya Kitahata wrote:
"Meritocracy"?
yes, meritocracy. the entire asf is a meritocracy, as is each
project within it.
I see. but here's one
On Sunday, Sep 21, 2003, at 06:08 Europe/Rome, Tetsuya Kitahata wrote:
On Sat, 20 Sep 2003 21:49:24 -0400
(Subject: RE: ASF member role - accountable to whom)
"Noel J. Bergman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
"Meritocracy"?
Here is a good stats on this ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) mailing list.
Excuse me, b
Tetsuya Kitahata wrote:
>
> In such situation, (and I am embodin' cross-project participation)
> how can you measure *my* participation in the apache.org activities?
>
> ... This is really *what* I've wanted to know, because half of the
> *ASF members* are parcitipating "only" http.apache.org mai
Steven Noels wrote:
> Rodent of Unusual Size wrote:
>>
>> perfectly understandable, since it isn't official policy yet. there
>> *isn't* an official policy at the moment.
>
> ... which could hardly qualify things as being "by design".
'by design' in that specific proposal, which has not (yet :-
> From: Tetsuya Kitahata [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2003 12:47 PM
> On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 12:21:07 +0200
> "Sander Striker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Please, do not post stats of any kind to say something about merit.
>
> Okay, Sander. I will not. I promise.
;)
On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 12:21:07 +0200
"Sander Striker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Please, do not post stats of any kind to say something about merit.
Okay, Sander. I will not. I promise.
By the way,
> Same for posts;
> it's quality and quantity. And stats don't measure quality.
How can you me
Stephen McConnell wrote:
If there is interest, I could try and re-word the content I put together
on the Sponsor responsibilities such that the role of Sponsor is more
oriented towards evangalist/champion, complementing the role of Shepard.
Absolutely! The document was put there as a seed to ge
Rodent of Unusual Size wrote:
Stephen McConnell wrote:
It would be really helpful if this page were included in the Home menu
on the Incuabator web site. Also helpful would be the inclusion of the
first link (roles and responsibilities) on the page concerning the
incubation process.
the wiki
> From: Tetsuya Kitahata [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2003 6:16 AM
> I see. but here's one question. Does this "meritocracy"
> encourage the inactive *ASF members* into the retirement status
> or hibernation status?
This is something for the ASF membership to worry abou
Phil:
Greg posted a message back on the 18th noting that a PMC vote on the
entry of the project to the incubator would be kicked off under the
private [EMAIL PROTECTED] list. I don't know the specifics of Incubator
voting policies but I guessing we will see a vote result early next week.
Step
> From: Noel J. Bergman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2003 3:49 AM
>> "Meritocracy"?
>> Here is a good stats on this ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) mailing list.
>
> Excuse me, but volume of messages has nothing to do with merit. Roy T.
> Fielding posts very infrequently in my
Stefano Mazzocchi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote on 19/09/2003 09:04:31 PM:
>
> On Friday, Sep 19, 2003, at 05:21 Europe/Rome, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>
> > Sam Ruby <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote on 19/09/2003 08:42:26 AM:
> >
> >> It took repeated attemps to get Ant to "matriculate". And
significa
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