Re: Don't shoot the messenger

2014-01-24 Thread Joseph S. Myers
On Thu, 23 Jan 2014, Eric S. Raymond wrote: > Really, attempts to shoot the messenger *won't help*. By ignoring the > areas where clang *does* have a clear advantage, *right now*, you are > displaying the exact head-in-the-sand attitude that is most likely to > concede the high ground to clang.

Re: Don't shoot the messenger

2014-01-24 Thread Richard Kenner
> To the extent that clang/LLVM and GCC are fighting, which is not > really the case, then I think it makes sense for GCC to focus on its > strengths, not its weaknesses. Objective C is not a strength. I'm > not sure it makes sense for the GCC project to encourage its limited > volunteer resource

Re: Don't shoot the messenger

2014-01-23 Thread Ian Lance Taylor
On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 5:02 PM, Gregory Casamento wrote: > > Granted, however, at the very least GCC should consciously ramp up it’s > support for Objective-C. Currently the Objective-C implementation in GCC is > woefully out of date as it doesn’t include basic support for ARC. I would like t

Re: Don't shoot the messenger

2014-01-23 Thread Jonathan Wakely
On 24 January 2014 01:02, Gregory Casamento wrote: > > Granted, however, at the very least GCC should consciously ramp up it’s > support for Objective-C. Currently the Objective-C implementation in GCC is > woefully out of date as it doesn’t include basic support for ARC. That's easy to say but

Re: Don't shoot the messenger

2014-01-23 Thread Gregory Casamento
Eric, On Jan 23, 2014, at 7:00 PM, Eric Botcazou wrote: >> One other point I must make is in regards to clang's Objective-C support vs. >> that of GCC. GCC regards Objective-C as a second class language and has >> done so for some time. Objective-C, according to recent statistics has >> surpa

Re: Don't shoot the messenger

2014-01-23 Thread Eric Botcazou
> One other point I must make is in regards to clang's Objective-C support vs. > that of GCC. GCC regards Objective-C as a second class language and has > done so for some time. Objective-C, according to recent statistics has > surpassed C++ in the number of developers using it (see this link >

Re: Don't shoot the messenger

2014-01-23 Thread Gregory Casamento
Guys, I have resisted entering into this argument up until now. All I can do here is share my experience with technical decisions that have been made in GCC. I am the maintainer of GNUstep (http://www.gnustep.org/) and the principal author of the Gorm (Interface Builder) (http://www.gnuste

Re: Don't shoot the messenger

2014-01-23 Thread Jonathan Wakely
On 23 January 2014 21:58, Eric S. Raymond wrote: > Steven Bosscher : >> On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 10:27 PM, Eric S. Raymond wrote: >> > I have not run direct checks on the quality of the optimized code, but >> > reports from others that it is improved seem plausible in light of >> > the fact that GC

Re: Don't shoot the messenger

2014-01-23 Thread Eric S. Raymond
Steven Bosscher : > On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 10:27 PM, Eric S. Raymond wrote: > > I have not run direct checks on the quality of the optimized code, but > > reports from others that it is improved seem plausible in light of > > the fact that GCC's optimization technology is two decades older in > >

Re: Don't shoot the messenger

2014-01-23 Thread Steven Bosscher
On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 10:27 PM, Eric S. Raymond wrote: > I have not run direct checks on the quality of the optimized code, but > reports from others that it is improved seem plausible in light of > the fact that GCC's optimization technology is two decades older in > origin. Yay, another "fact"