Re: Speaking of moving files

Cc:ed to -chat where this seems to belong now. Yes, everyone should be familiar with fsdb (you should have seen the fear on a coworker's face the other day when I said something about fixing a filesystem with fsdb in jest. It was straight unadulterated terror.) The mere mention of this tool makes

Re: Speaking of moving files (Re: make world broken building fortunes )

On Tue, 14 Dec 1999, Ben Rosengart wrote: > > vi -- which is in /usr. > > Good example of something else that would be great to have in /bin. > > *ducking* > > -- > Ben Rosengart and as a coworker, I'd have to tell you how to use cat ;) ROTFL. -Pat __ Pat Lynch

Re: Init Re: MAKEDEV (Re: Speaking of moving files (Re: make world broken building fortunes ) ) )

David Scheidt wrote: > > What's wrong with run with system V runlevels? Other than it's system V and > everything AT^HUSL did is evil, of course. They try to map graphs into a line. -- Daniel C. Sobral(8-DCS) who is as social as a wampas [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTEC

Re: MAKEDEV (Re: Speaking of moving files (Re: make world broken building fortunes ) )

On Thu, Dec 16, 1999 at 12:07:49AM +0100, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > I would prefer if the lines could be added to /etc/ttys somewhat > like: > sshd "/usr/local/sbin/sshd" none ondemand > > And then we could > telinit -on sshd > telinit -off sshd hal:/service# ls -l telnetd tot

Re: Init Re: MAKEDEV (Re: Speaking of moving files (Re: make world broken building fortunes ) ) )

> On Thu, Dec 16, 1999 at 01:22:46AM -0500, Donn Miller wrote: > > > runlevels, OpenBSD does not or goes with an entirely different > > system), them would it be fair to consider FreeBSD "BSD"? The > > advantage here is that FreeBSD would mature into it's own type of > > UNIX with a BSD heri

Re: Init Re: MAKEDEV (Re: Speaking of moving files (Re: make world broken building fortunes ) ) )

On Thu, Dec 16, 1999 at 01:22:46AM -0500, Donn Miller wrote: > runlevels, OpenBSD does not or goes with an entirely different > system), them would it be fair to consider FreeBSD "BSD"? The > advantage here is that FreeBSD would mature into it's own type of > UNIX with a BSD heritage. Can

Re: Init Re: MAKEDEV (Re: Speaking of moving files (Re: make world broken building fortunes ) ) )

David Scheidt wrote: > What's wrong with run with system V runlevels? Other than it's system V and > everything AT^HUSL did is evil, of course. Well, the one danger is that we'd be slowly drifting away from the classic BSD way of doing thigs. Of course, the official BSD is dead (right?). But

Re: MAKEDEV (Re: Speaking of moving files (Re: make world brokenbuilding fortunes ) )

On 1999-Dec-16 10:07:49 +1100, Poul-Henning Kamp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Peter Jeremy writes >: >>It can do that now. Add the following lines to /etc/ttys: >> >>sshd "/usr/local/sbin/sshd" none on >>inetd "/usr/sbin/inetd -Ww" none on >>syslogd "/usr/sbi

Re: MAKEDEV (Re: Speaking of moving files (Re: make world broken building fortunes ) )

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Peter Jeremy writes : >On 1999-Dec-16 07:48:48 +1100, Poul-Henning Kamp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>And we don't really need YAD when we have init hanging around doing >>nothing for its keep anyway... > >I beg to differ. To quote init(8): > The role of init is

Re: MAKEDEV (Re: Speaking of moving files (Re: make world brokenbuilding fortunes ) )

On 1999-Dec-16 07:48:48 +1100, Poul-Henning Kamp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >And we don't really need YAD when we have init hanging around doing >nothing for its keep anyway... I beg to differ. To quote init(8): The role of init is so critical that if it dies, the system will reboot it

Re: Init Re: MAKEDEV (Re: Speaking of moving files (Re: make world broken building fortunes ) ) )

On Wed, 15 Dec 1999, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Dav > id Scheidt writes: > >What's wrong with run with system V runlevels? Other than it's system V and > >everything AT^HUSL did is evil, of course. > > runlevels are a very oldfashioned way to think about thing

Re: MAKEDEV (Re: Speaking of moving files (Re: make world brokenbuilding fortunes ) )

> But lets say you add a pccard on which you want a getty, so devd will > have to tell init to run a getty on that port wouldn't it ? Of course- but this lays out very clearly where breakage could occur and leads to be better flexibility. Let's assume this is devd and leave to the side whether d

Re: MAKEDEV (Re: Speaking of moving files (Re: make world broken building fortunes ) )

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Matthew Jacob writes: >> > >> >I was just thinking it could get tricky and have subtle ordering bugs of >> >new tty devices, changes to ttys and signals all about the same time. >> >> Well, they are no less subtle by having them in different processes... > >No, bu

Re: Init Re: MAKEDEV (Re: Speaking of moving files (Re: make world broken building fortunes ) ) )

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Dav id Scheidt writes: >On Wed, 15 Dec 1999, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > >> In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Warner Losh writes: >> >> I would really like to see the devd functionality to live in init >> and at the same time I wouldn't mind if init were taught to kee

Re: MAKEDEV (Re: Speaking of moving files (Re: make world brokenbuilding fortunes ) )

> > > >I was just thinking it could get tricky and have subtle ordering bugs of > >new tty devices, changes to ttys and signals all about the same time. > > Well, they are no less subtle by having them in different processes... No, but possibly easier to track and debug. Just a minor nit. N'mind

Init Re: MAKEDEV (Re: Speaking of moving files (Re: make world broken building fortunes ) ) )

On Wed, 15 Dec 1999, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Warner Losh writes: > > I would really like to see the devd functionality to live in init > and at the same time I wouldn't mind if init were taught to keep > important programs running, things like sshd, inetd, sysl

Re: MAKEDEV (Re: Speaking of moving files (Re: make world broken building fortunes ) )

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Matthew Jacob writes: >> >Isn't this throwing an awful lot onto init? >> >> Not really... >> >> The meta-daemon part is no different from keeping gettys in the air... >> >> The devd thing consists of selecting on some magic fd and running a >> program when somet

Re: MAKEDEV (Re: Speaking of moving files (Re: make world brokenbuilding fortunes ) )

> >Isn't this throwing an awful lot onto init? > > Not really... > > The meta-daemon part is no different from keeping gettys in the air... > > The devd thing consists of selecting on some magic fd and running a > program when something happens. This could be done with a getty > like daemon to

Re: MAKEDEV (Re: Speaking of moving files (Re: make world broken building fortunes ) )

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Matthew Jacob writes: >> > >> I would really like to see the devd functionality to live in init >> and at the same time I wouldn't mind if init were taught to keep >> important programs running, things like sshd, inetd, syslogd and >> similar should be restarted i

Re: MAKEDEV (Re: Speaking of moving files (Re: make world brokenbuilding fortunes ) )

> > I would really like to see the devd functionality to live in init > and at the same time I wouldn't mind if init were taught to keep > important programs running, things like sshd, inetd, syslogd and > similar should be restarted if they die. > > No, I don't want sysV runlevels or the weird

Re: MAKEDEV (Re: Speaking of moving files (Re: make world broken building fortunes ) )

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Warner Losh writes: >In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Poul-Henning Kamp writes: >: A "devd" program would solve 98% of what devfs could solve. It cannot >: solve the homebrew-a-vnode-for-the-root-fs problem. FreeBSD needs a >: "devd" program *anyway* because what go

Re: MAKEDEV (Re: Speaking of moving files (Re: make world broken building fortunes ) )

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Poul-Henning Kamp writes: : A "devd" program would solve 98% of what devfs could solve. It cannot : solve the homebrew-a-vnode-for-the-root-fs problem. FreeBSD needs a : "devd" program *anyway* because what good is dynamic devices if you : can't do something intell

Re: MAKEDEV (Re: Speaking of moving files (Re: make world brokenbuilding fortunes ) )

On Wed, 15 Dec 1999, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Daniel C. Sobral" writes: > >"Rodney W. Grimes" wrote: > >> > >> Yea... been hearing that for 4 years... one of it's big short comings is > >> that it needs a persistent backing store for this. Sounds like this C

Re: MAKEDEV (Re: Speaking of moving files (Re: make world broken building fortunes ) )

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Daniel C. Sobral" writes: >"Rodney W. Grimes" wrote: >> >> Yea... been hearing that for 4 years... one of it's big short comings is >> that it needs a persistent backing store for this. Sounds like this C >> program could fullfill one of the missing parts of devf

Re: MAKEDEV (Re: Speaking of moving files (Re: make world broken building fortunes ) )

"Rodney W. Grimes" wrote: > > Yea... been hearing that for 4 years... one of it's big short comings is > that it needs a persistent backing store for this. Sounds like this C > program could fullfill one of the missing parts of devfs :-) F persistent backing store. The daemon solution is perfec

Re: Speaking of moving files

At 6:44 PM -0800 1999/12/14, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: > There... easy enough??? fsdb is not that big of a deal as long as you > stay with the basic commands of cd, ls, chown, chmod, chgrp, rm and ln. > It's the ones like uplink downlink chgen that can hose you up but good. > > If it looks lik

Re: MAKEDEV (Re: Speaking of moving files (Re: make world broken building fortunes ) )

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Brian Somers writes: : *cough*DEVFS*cough* devfs*D* Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message

Re: RE: Speaking of moving files (Re: make world broken building fortunes )

: :Poul-Henning Kamp wrote :> It would make more sense, considering the way FreeBSD is distributed for :> /usr/local to be a mountpoint than for /usr to be a mountpoint. :> :> /var is traditionally a mountpoint to keep the logs out of harms :> way (and vice versa), but /usr never had that level o

Re: Speaking of moving files

> > A person who really knew fsdb could do it /bin/fsdb, infact it's > > And for everyone else ;-) > > WARNING >Use this tool with extreme caution--you can damage an FFS file system >beyond what fsck(8) can repair. Yea.. well... fsdb /dev/rda0s1a cd /dev/ cd da0s1g chown root c

Re: Speaking of moving files

> A person who really knew fsdb could do it /bin/fsdb, infact it's And for everyone else ;-) WARNING Use this tool with extreme caution--you can damage an FFS file system beyond what fsck(8) can repair. tonym To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe f

Re: MAKEDEV (Re: Speaking of moving files (Re: make world broken building fortunes ) )

On Wed, Dec 15, 1999 at 01:39:28AM +, Brian Somers wrote: > [.] > > On a related subject: don't you think it's high time to end up this > > madness with MAKEDEV being a shell script, and reimplement it in C? Today, > [.] > *cough*DEVFS*cough* Gesunteit. - mark -- Mark Newt

Re: MAKEDEV (Re: Speaking of moving files (Re: make world broken building fortunes ) )

> [.] > > On a related subject: don't you think it's high time to end up this > > madness with MAKEDEV being a shell script, and reimplement it in C? Today, > [.] > *cough*DEVFS*cough* Yea... been hearing that for 4 years... one of it's big short comings is that it needs a persistent back

Re: MAKEDEV (Re: Speaking of moving files (Re: make world broken building fortunes ) )

[.] > On a related subject: don't you think it's high time to end up this > madness with MAKEDEV being a shell script, and reimplement it in C? Today, [.] *cough*DEVFS*cough* -- Brian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Re: Speaking of moving files

[Charset ISO-8859-1 unsupported, filtering to ASCII...] > Ben Rosengart wrote in list.freebsd-current: > > On Tue, 14 Dec 1999, Matthew Dillon wrote: > > > > > I think at one time or another all of us have missed *something* in > > > /usr that wasn't in /. For example, disklabel -e d

MAKEDEV (Re: Speaking of moving files (Re: make world broken buildingfortunes ) )

On Mon, 13 Dec 1999, Bill Fumerola wrote: > On Mon, 13 Dec 1999, Louis A. Mamakos wrote: > > > So how about /usr/sbin/chown -> /sbin/chown so that MAKEDEV works with > > just the root file system mounted? > > As one who just got his ass bitten by this, I would vote yes. On a related subject

Re: Speaking of moving files (Re: make world broken building fortunes )

> "BSDman" == BSDman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: BSDman> one idea about /usr is to allow the admin to mount it BSDman> read-only. I didn't tried it but this would give some BSDman> level of security against modifications of the files there BSDman> in. This is particulary us

RE: Speaking of moving files (Re: make world broken building fortunes )

Poul-Henning Kamp wrote > It would make more sense, considering the way FreeBSD is distributed for > /usr/local to be a mountpoint than for /usr to be a mountpoint. > > /var is traditionally a mountpoint to keep the logs out of harms > way (and vice versa), but /usr never had that level of justi

Re: Speaking of moving files (Re: make world broken building fortunes )

> How about removing awk from MAKEDEV so life isn't so hard to recover > when you use a 3.3 fixit floppy after removing /dev and not making > enough of it again. How about finally starting to work on devfs and forget about all the MAKEDEV junk and leave it as it is for now? Blaz Zupan, [EMAIL PR

Re: Speaking of moving files

Ben Rosengart wrote in list.freebsd-current: > On Tue, 14 Dec 1999, Matthew Dillon wrote: > > > I think at one time or another all of us have missed *something* in > > /usr that wasn't in /. For example, disklabel -e doesn't work without > > vi -- which is in /usr. > > Good e

Re: Speaking of moving files (Re: make world broken building fortunes )

On Tue, Dec 14, 1999 at 07:38:32PM +0100, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Matthew Dillon writes: > > > >I think at one time or another all of us have missed *something* in > >/usr that wasn't in /. For example, disklabel -e doesn't work without > >vi -- whic

Re: Speaking of moving files (Re: make world broken building fortunes )

On Tue, Dec 14, 1999 at 10:32:23AM -0800, Matthew Dillon wrote: > :> > :> > So how about /usr/sbin/chown -> /sbin/chown so that MAKEDEV works with > :> > just the root file system mounted? > :> > :> As one who just got his ass bitten by this, I would vote yes. > : > :As one who's missed chown

Re: Speaking of moving files (Re: make world broken building fortunes )

[Recipient list trimmed down to just the list. dhw] >Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 19:38:32 +0100 >From: Poul-Henning Kamp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >It would make more sense, considering the way FreeBSD is distributed for >/usr/local to be a mountpoint than for /usr to be a mountpoint. It's hardly

Re: Speaking of moving files (Re: make world broken building fortunes )

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Matthew Dillon writes: > >I think at one time or another all of us have missed *something* in >/usr that wasn't in /. For example, disklabel -e doesn't work without >vi -- which is in /usr. EDITOR=/bin/ed export EDITOR disklabel

Re: Speaking of moving files (Re: make world broken building fortunes )

On Tue, 14 Dec 1999, Matthew Dillon wrote: > I think at one time or another all of us have missed *something* in > /usr that wasn't in /. For example, disklabel -e doesn't work without > vi -- which is in /usr. Good example of something else that would be great to have in /bin. *du

Re: Speaking of moving files (Re: make world broken building fortunes )

:> :> > So how about /usr/sbin/chown -> /sbin/chown so that MAKEDEV works with :> > just the root file system mounted? :> :> As one who just got his ass bitten by this, I would vote yes. : :As one who's missed chown at times when only root's mounted, I'm with Bill. : :-- : Ben Rosengart : :UN

Re: Speaking of moving files (Re: make world broken building fortunes )

On Mon, 13 Dec 1999, Bill Fumerola wrote: > On Mon, 13 Dec 1999, Louis A. Mamakos wrote: > > > So how about /usr/sbin/chown -> /sbin/chown so that MAKEDEV works with > > just the root file system mounted? > > As one who just got his ass bitten by this, I would vote yes. As one who's missed

Re: Speaking of moving files (Re: make world broken building fortunes )

On Mon, 13 Dec 1999, Louis A. Mamakos wrote: > So how about /usr/sbin/chown -> /sbin/chown so that MAKEDEV works with > just the root file system mounted? How about removing awk from MAKEDEV so life isn't so hard to recover when you use a 3.3 fixit floppy after removing /dev and not making eno

Re: Speaking of moving files (Re: make world broken building fortunes )

On Mon, 13 Dec 1999, Louis A. Mamakos wrote: > So how about /usr/sbin/chown -> /sbin/chown so that MAKEDEV works with > just the root file system mounted? As one who just got his ass bitten by this, I would vote yes. -- - bill fumerola - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - BF1560 - computer horizons corp -

Re: Speaking of moving files (Re: make world broken building fortunes )

> On Mon, 13 Dec 1999, Kris Kennaway wrote: > > > On Mon, 13 Dec 1999, Peter Wemm wrote: > > > > > I wonder if we should move fortune to usr.bin? It's hardly a game and I'm > > > way beyond tired of it being left out of standard paths... > > > (ie: "/bin:/usr/bin[:/usr/local/bin]") > > > > I h

Re: Speaking of moving files (Re: make world broken building fortunes)

On Mon, 13 Dec 1999, Kris Kennaway wrote: > On Mon, 13 Dec 1999, Peter Wemm wrote: > > > I wonder if we should move fortune to usr.bin? It's hardly a game and I'm > > way beyond tired of it being left out of standard paths... > > (ie: "/bin:/usr/bin[:/usr/local/bin]") > > I have no opinion abo

Speaking of moving files (Re: make world broken building fortunes)

On Mon, 13 Dec 1999, Peter Wemm wrote: > I wonder if we should move fortune to usr.bin? It's hardly a game and I'm > way beyond tired of it being left out of standard paths... > (ie: "/bin:/usr/bin[:/usr/local/bin]") I have no opinion about fortune, but I do think that md5 should be moved from