+ Kazutaka YOKOTA wrote:
> We can improve our current behavior of syscons and keyboard drivers
> in the following approaches.
> a) Remove the FAIL_IF_NO_KBD flag from /boot/device.hints.
>Leave the AUTO_DETECT_KBD as it is now for syscons, so that
>syscons searches for a keyboard periodi
>Anyway, I am now considering the following experiment.
>
>- We make the psm driver count the number of the "out-of-sync" errors.
>- When the error is detected for the first time, the psm driver will
> throw few data bytes (up to entire packet size) and see if it can
> get back to sync.
>- If
I am entering a tricky part now :-)
--- Keyboard reset
Because there are so many complicated issues here, I will start with
describing something I know about what BIOS and FreeBSD keyboard
driver do. (Beware, this is a long message.)
1. What BIOS does
During AT BIOS POST, things happe
Kazutaka YOKOTA wrote:
> >o You may want to implement a rate throttling mechanism;
> > init will stop respawning a getty on a port, if it is
> > exiting too rapidly, while inetd will rate limit the
> > number of connection attempts a second, as well. I
> > guess you p
>Kazutaka YOKOTA wrote:
>> When the machine wakes up from the suspend mode by the APM (and ACPI?)
>> BIOS, it is considered the BIOS's responsibility to restore the
>> peripheral devices' state. And in fact most laptop machines are able
>> to restore their internal pointing devices correctly. The
Chris Dillon wrote:
[ ... Belkin OmniView firmware version ... ]
> > Little square sticker with rounded corners on the bottom, about
> > 1/2" by 1/4", with just the version, e.g. "1.9"...
>
> The 4-port OmniCube on my desk only has version 1.5, but that probably
> doesn't matter (how would I upg
>> If disable/enable sequence, which is lot simpler and takes considrably
>> less time, can correct the sync problem, I think it will be better.
>
>It looks to me as if the mouse is automatically enabled by
>default after a reset?
No, the mouse is disabled after reset. We need to explicitly
enab
>o If you are going to reset, disable and drain the input
> queue before you do it; this will make the mouse lose
> buffered data, making a partial send with a disable
> in the middle not resume (e.g. it is no longer an
> issue for you).
Don't worry. I was going to d
Kazutaka YOKOTA wrote:
> When the machine wakes up from the suspend mode by the APM (and ACPI?)
> BIOS, it is considered the BIOS's responsibility to restore the
> peripheral devices' state. And in fact most laptop machines are able
> to restore their internal pointing devices correctly. The only
Mike Smith wrote:
**
Takes self too seriously
>
> [Terry blathers]
Warning that uncivil posting will follow shortly
> > > Surprisingly, setting "vidconsole" in the SRM didn't make
> > > my TGA work in FreeBSD. 8-p.
>
> 'vidconsole' is the x86 loader console
Kazutaka YOKOTA wrote:
> While we are carrying out the reset/initialization sequence, the mouse
> pointer will be frozen on the screen. The keyboard input may not
> respond in a timely fasion because the PS/2 mouse and the AT keyboard
> share the same I/O port. Then, I suspect our user may feel un
Kazutaka YOKOTA wrote:
> Anyway, I am now considering the following experiment.
>
> - We make the psm driver count the number of the "out-of-sync" errors.
> - When the error is detected for the first time, the psm driver will
> throw few data bytes (up to entire packet size) and see if it can
>
Ok, here is another topic for discussion.
>0x4000 is PSM_CONFIG_INITAFTERSUSPEND
>
>Under what circumstances would you _not_ want to call the
>function "reinitialize()" on the unit at resume time, such
>that this flag is not default?
To date, the flags PSM_CONFIG_HOOKRESUME and
PSM_COFIG_INITAFT
> > Too complicated?
>
>It sounds fine to me. I was thinking that if you are truly concerned
>about the amount of time that the disable/enable calls take, the way to
>solve that is a combination of counter and timer. Increment a counter
>when you take the disable/enable path to prevent recursive
>Does it make sense to have a timeout (or perhaps just timestamps) in the
>driver, so that after some period of inactivity, you "know" that the
>next byte from the moust is the first of a multi-byte message?
>
>louie
I haven't thought about this. Yes, it may be possible. But, when the
mouse is m
>: Too complicated?
>
>I like this idea. It will allow mechanical KVM switches to "work"
>better than they do now (which is to say, not much at all). I also
>have one KVM switch that hits the out-of-sync problem when its power
>fails. Unfortunately, it has a horrible user interface: The power
>
Kazutaka YOKOTA writes:
> Anyway, I am now considering the following experiment.
>
> - We make the psm driver count the number of the "out-of-sync" errors.
> - When the error is detected for the first time, the psm driver will
> throw few data bytes (up to entire packet size) and see if it
On 15-Aug-01 Mike Smith wrote:
>>
>> On 15-Aug-01 Mike Smith wrote:
>> >
>> > [Terry blathers]
>> >> > Surprisingly, setting "vidconsole" in the SRM didn't make
>> >> > my TGA work in FreeBSD. 8-p.
>> >
>> > 'vidconsole' is the x86 loader console driver. Under SRM, there are no
>> > console
>
> On 15-Aug-01 Mike Smith wrote:
> >
> > [Terry blathers]
> >> > Surprisingly, setting "vidconsole" in the SRM didn't make
> >> > my TGA work in FreeBSD. 8-p.
> >
> > 'vidconsole' is the x86 loader console driver. Under SRM, there are no
> > console options (because the platform doesn't gi
On 15-Aug-01 Mike Smith wrote:
>
> [Terry blathers]
>> > Surprisingly, setting "vidconsole" in the SRM didn't make
>> > my TGA work in FreeBSD. 8-p.
>
> 'vidconsole' is the x86 loader console driver. Under SRM, there are no
> console options (because the platform doesn't give you any).
Errr
Does it make sense to have a timeout (or perhaps just timestamps) in the
driver, so that after some period of inactivity, you "know" that the
next byte from the moust is the first of a multi-byte message?
louie
To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" i
In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Kazutaka YOKOTA
writes:
: Anyway, I am now considering the following experiment.
:
: - We make the psm driver count the number of the "out-of-sync" errors.
: - When the error is detected for the first time, the psm driver will
: throw few data bytes (up to entire
[Terry blathers]
> > Surprisingly, setting "vidconsole" in the SRM didn't make
> > my TGA work in FreeBSD. 8-p.
'vidconsole' is the x86 loader console driver. Under SRM, there are no
console options (because the platform doesn't give you any).
--
... every activity meets with opposition, ev
Ok, I am back.
There are so many issues to be explained and discussed. I will tackle
them one by one
- Flags 0x8000 for psm and "out-of-sync" error
As many people want to make it default, and my initial intent to make
it an option didn't work out well as a hindsight, we had better make
it
On Mon, 13 Aug 2001, Terry Lambert wrote:
> Chris Dillon wrote:
> > Occasionally I'll have mouse sync problems when I switch between
> > FreeBSD and NT when the NT box has had difference mice (wheel vs.
> > non-wheel MS mice, apparently) used on it via the dual-user KVM
> > switch. NT seems to h
On 13-Aug-01 Terry Lambert wrote:
> John Baldwin wrote:
>> > More ideally, the FreeBSD box would detect whether or not
>> > the video card had been disabled, and use _that_ to decide
>> > whether or not to use a keyboard. It would become the job
>> > of the video driver -- be it a regular driver
Chris Dillon wrote:
> Occasionally I'll have mouse sync problems when I switch between
> FreeBSD and NT when the NT box has had difference mice (wheel vs.
> non-wheel MS mice, apparently) used on it via the dual-user KVM
> switch. NT seems to handle that case fairly well by resetting the
> PS/2 p
Gordon Tetlow wrote:
> This is such a great example of how tone can come across poorly in a text
> medium. I doubt (hope) that Joe didn't mean to come across as that. But
> tone in email is so often inferred based on the readers own moods, that
> phrasing email becomes much more important so as to
Joe Kelsey wrote:
[ ... 0x8000 ... ]
> Again, all I am asking is for someone to explain why they make a design
> decision. The comment in the psm.c file about a "hack" is extremely
> unhelpful. Why did the coder think it was a "hack" solution? What were
> the pros and cons that went into that
Warner Losh wrote:
>
> In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Joe Kelsey writes:
> : I also second Terry's comment about 0x800. There is no reason to add
> : yet more driver flags in order to "do the right thing". The "do the
> : right thing" case should always be default and a flag (sysctl variable,
>
John Baldwin wrote:
> > My suggestion for a probe in this case would be to set up
> > a different handler for the reset signal, and then ask the
> > keyboard to send the reset signal. If it does, then there
> > is a keyboard present.
>
> Yeah, and resetting the controller works fine on machines
John Baldwin wrote:
> 1) Implement probing/detection for PS/2 keyboards post-boot. You can hack
> this by having the atkbd0 driver always attach to IRQ 1, but not create and
> export a kbd0 syscons keyboard driver until it gets an interrupt event from
> the keyboard.
This would be pretty easy.
Mike Smith wrote:
> > Here is the _precise_ problem with older firmware:
> >
> > The Belkin KVM switch uses the "on->off->on" or "off->on->off"
> > of this LED to signal a port change character is coming next,
> > and times out the port change request only after a little
> > while.
>
> Ah, so the
Jason Evans wrote:
> I had the same problems, and took my KVM switch apart, expecting to find
> the chips reversed. They were in fact installed correctly, so at least in
> my case, the problem exists regardless. If I'm careful to have the KVM
> switch on the same channel as a booting machine, an
On Sat, 11 Aug 2001, Terry Lambert wrote:
> Finally, most keyboard/mouse/monitor switches don't work with
> FreeBSD; for example, the Belkin console extender that uses the
> ethernet cable doesn't work at all (it's the best one out there),
I'm using a Cybex KVM-over-CAT5 extender with a cheap 4-
On Sun, 12 Aug 2001, Warner Losh wrote:
> A word about tone. If you were to get as in my face about, say,
> pccard, as you about the psm driver, I'd certainly be ill inclined to
> provide you with what you want.
>
> Good Tone:
> Say Warner, why do you bother turning off the power after
>
In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Joe Kelsey writes:
: Warner Losh writes:
: > In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Joe Kelsey
:writes:
: > : I also second Terry's comment about 0x800. There is no reason to add
: > : yet more driver flags in order to "do the right thing". The "do the
: > : right thi
Warner Losh writes:
> In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Joe Kelsey writes:
> : I also second Terry's comment about 0x800. There is no reason to add
> : yet more driver flags in order to "do the right thing". The "do the
> : right thing" case should always be default and a flag (sysctl variable,
In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Joe Kelsey writes:
: I also second Terry's comment about 0x800. There is no reason to add
: yet more driver flags in order to "do the right thing". The "do the
: right thing" case should always be default and a flag (sysctl variable,
: etc) should be used for those
On 13-Aug-01 John Baldwin wrote:
> runtime interface (IMO). I realize the user side of the attributes is up for
> debate, but working on solving this problem is much more problem than
> complaining that people aren't giving you the free gift you want.
s/problem/productive/2
--
John Baldwin <
On 12-Aug-01 Terry Lambert wrote:
> The FreeBSD keyboard detection is another matter; FreeBSD
> will assume that there is no keyboard, and try to "helpfully"
> drop you into serial console mode. Some of this _used_ to
> be mitigated by checking for the "extended keyboard bit" in
> the "keyboard
On 12-Aug-01 Terry Lambert wrote:
> Mike Smith wrote:
>>
>> > :Finally, most keyboard/mouse/monitor switches don't work with
>> > :FreeBSD;
>>
>> This is actually not true. I'd doubt that you've even tried many of them.
*sigh*
It seems no one has investigated why we probe keyboards at all.
On 12-Aug-01 Joe Kelsey wrote:
> Thank you very much for the clear and cogent explanation of your
> philosophy of the psm code. Could I suggest that you copy the
> aforementioned e-mail directly into the psm.c file for everyone to see
> in posterity?
>
> Also, I have a fundamental problem with
> Here is the _precise_ problem with older firmware:
>
> The Belkin KVM switch uses the "on->off->on" or "off->on->off"
> of this LED to signal a port change character is coming next,
> and times out the port change request only after a little
> while.
Ah, so the problem is actually a design def
> I've seen the 'have to be on the machine while booting' behavior
> using a Belkin Omniview Pro switch, which oddly, wasn't a problem
> with their OmniCube switch, at least not with my machines. Windows
> had as much, or more problems with not having the console on the
> booting machine as fbsd t
On Sun, 12 Aug 2001 10:16:47 -0600, Nate Williams wrote:
>> > > :Finally, most keyboard/mouse/monitor switches don't work with
>> > > :FreeBSD;
>> >
>> > This is actually not true. I'd doubt that you've even tried many of them.
>>
>> Boy, you are on one about me...
>>
>> I have tried 5 switch
On Sun, Aug 12, 2001 at 02:35:22PM -0700, John Polstra wrote:
>
> Maybe they swapped the labels on the chips too. :-)
Well, it apparently doesn't fry anything to have the chips reversed, so
maybe I should try swapping them just to make sure. =)
Jason
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In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Jason Evans <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Sat, Aug 11, 2001 at 01:04:07PM -0700, John Polstra wrote:
> >
> > I just want to add that in the case of the Belkin OmniView, it
> > should be noted that Belkin shipped a bunch of them with a couple
> > of EPROM chips s
On Sat, Aug 11, 2001 at 01:04:07PM -0700, John Polstra wrote:
>
> I have no argument about the keyboard probes. I just want to add
> that in the case of the Belkin OmniView, it should be noted that
> Belkin shipped a bunch of them with a couple of EPROM chips swapped
> accidentally. There's a p
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