Re: ngettext_lazy and ngettext

By the way, I also had a regression when upgrading to Django 2.1, which I was not aware of until after about 4 or 5 weeks after I upgraded. Something changed with the cookie settings (the default Django setting) and then login/logout didn't work across 2 of my websites, until I changed cookie setti

Re: ngettext_lazy and ngettext

Right, but now we come right back to the beginning: it's not a regression, and not judged one by Django i18n team, who are as knowledgeable as anyone about these things. I see no value in your continuing to press this point. If it had have been it would have been triaged as a Release Blocker.

Re: ngettext_lazy and ngettext

Yes, I understand. Don't merge incorrect solutions. But notice that it is a regression, in the affected languages. Things just stop working after upgrading Django. If I didn't have the unit tests which failed, I might have upgraded Django to production and my users would have received messages in a

Re: ngettext_lazy and ngettext

We are taking it seriously Uri. It’s difficult to resolve instantly when there’s a super long mailing list thread, and several PRs in play, and a major discussion on the ticket. It’s only recently that the correct approach has become clear. It’s taken a community effort, from i18n experts to get th

Re: ngettext_lazy and ngettext

Hi Carlton, I think this issue is important for the Django developers mailing list. I already commented on the PR about 3 weeks ago. Yes I know that most Django users use either English, or a language which its plural forms were not changed recently. But users who use a language whose plural forms

Re: ngettext_lazy and ngettext

HI Uri. Yes, we know. :) Please don't bump. It's just adds noise. (If you MUST bump, a comment on the PR is more than enough, so not everyone of the thousands on this list needs a notification.) Thanks. Ref backport: it's a possibility but you should phrase it more like, "this is serious bug

Re: ngettext_lazy and ngettext

Django developers, PR #12332 is waiting to be reviewed and approved. https://github.com/django/django/pull/12332 I would also like to suggest to include this PR, if accepted, into the next version of 2.2. Otherwise I will not be able to use 2.2 or I will have to fork Django to use 2.2, and then

Re: ngettext_lazy and ngettext

On Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 2:17 AM Matemática A3K wrote: > > > On Fri, Jan 10, 2020 at 8:38 PM Matemática A3K > wrote: > >> Trying to recap all the discussion done in the mailing list, Trac and >> Github: >> >> The problem that was originally reported in #30439 was about mixed plural >> forms in ca

Re: ngettext_lazy and ngettext

On Fri, Jan 10, 2020 at 8:38 PM Matemática A3K wrote: > Trying to recap all the discussion done in the mailing list, Trac and > Github: > > The problem that was originally reported in #30439 was about mixed plural > forms in catalogs bundled with Django, which led to broken translations. > > Then

Re: ngettext_lazy and ngettext

Hello how can i help you ‪On Tue, 21 Jan 2020 at 10:57, ‫אורי‬‎ wrote:‬ > Hi, > > Anyone wants to review PR #12332? > אורי > u...@speedy.net > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Django developers (Contributions to Django itself)" group. > To unsub

Re: ngettext_lazy and ngettext

Hi, Anyone wants to review PR #12332? אורי u...@speedy.net -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django developers (Contributions to Django itself)" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to django-develop

Re: ngettext_lazy and ngettext

Hi, Did you see PR #12332? https://github.com/django/django/pull/12332 אורי u...@speedy.net On Sat, Jan 11, 2020 at 3:38 AM Matemática A3K wrote: > Trying to recap all the discussion done in the mailing list, Trac and > Github: > > The problem that was originally reported in #30439 was about m

Re: ngettext_lazy and ngettext

On Sat, Jan 11, 2020 at 3:38 AM Matemática A3K wrote: > Does anyone see any rationale, design or implementation problem in the > fix? Any comment is welcomed :) > https://github.com/django/django/pull/12280#issuecomment-575242878 We use Django 2.1 in Speedy Net and this issue has prevented us f

Re: ngettext_lazy and ngettext

Trying to recap all the discussion done in the mailing list, Trac and Github: The problem that was originally reported in #30439 was about mixed plural forms in catalogs bundled with Django, which led to broken translations. Then, it added the not announced changes in the plural forms of locales,

Re: ngettext_lazy and ngettext

On Fri, Dec 13, 2019 at 1:04 AM Matemática A3K wrote: > > > On Fri, Dec 6, 2019 at 2:14 AM Matemática A3K > wrote: > >> >> >> On Thu, Dec 5, 2019 at 4:23 PM Maciek Olko wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> I am wondering if Django shouldn't use Unicode Plural Rules as standard >>> and promote it for third-par

Re: ngettext_lazy and ngettext

On Fri, Dec 6, 2019 at 2:14 AM Matemática A3K wrote: > > > On Thu, Dec 5, 2019 at 4:23 PM Maciek Olko wrote: > >> Hi, >> I am wondering if Django shouldn't use Unicode Plural Rules as standard >> and promote it for third-party apps. Even if sometimes number of forms are >> not applicable to cert

Re: ngettext_lazy and ngettext

On Fri, Dec 6, 2019 at 2:14 AM Matemática A3K wrote: > > > On Thu, Dec 5, 2019 at 4:23 PM Maciek Olko wrote: > >> Hi, >> I am wondering if Django shouldn't use Unicode Plural Rules as standard >> and promote it for third-party apps. Even if sometimes number of forms are >> not applicable to cert

Re: ngettext_lazy and ngettext

On Thu, Dec 5, 2019 at 4:23 PM Maciek Olko wrote: > Hi, > I am wondering if Django shouldn't use Unicode Plural Rules as standard > and promote it for third-party apps. Even if sometimes number of forms are > not applicable to certain cases, there may be cases when all of forms will > be needed.

Re: ngettext_lazy and ngettext

Hi, I am wondering if Django shouldn't use Unicode Plural Rules as standard and promote it for third-party apps. Even if sometimes number of forms are not applicable to certain cases, there may be cases when all of forms will be needed. Especially if implementing having different plural rules for

Re: ngettext_lazy and ngettext

While testing the "not-merging" policy, I got this: https://pastebin.com/ihyAiYtc Those warnings should get to the Translators teams if they are not looking here, i.e. https://github.com/django/django/blob/master/django/contrib/sessions/locale/he/LC_MESSAGES/django.po is still using a 2-plurals for

Re: ngettext_lazy and ngettext

On Wed, Dec 4, 2019 at 2:25 AM Claude Paroz wrote: > Le mercredi 4 décembre 2019 03:41:51 UTC+1, Matemática A3K a écrit : >> >> (...) >> >> But, then I realized that there is major caveat on this approach, and >> that is that updates on the plural equation won't reach users' catalogs, >> because

Re: ngettext_lazy and ngettext

Le mercredi 4 décembre 2019 03:41:51 UTC+1, Matemática A3K a écrit : > > (...) > > But, then I realized that there is major caveat on this approach, and that > is that updates on the plural equation won't reach users' catalogs, because > their catalogs will be kept separately one the plural form

Re: ngettext_lazy and ngettext

OK, I made some progress on the quest of solving this issue :) While I was implementing the "not-merge-catalog-if-plural-form-differs" policy, I realized that it would be cumbersome for the users to adapt to the new situation if no additional tools are provided. I switch to a Documentation Driven

Re: ngettext_lazy and ngettext

On Wed, Nov 27, 2019 at 1:40 AM Matemática A3K wrote: > > > On Tue, Nov 26, 2019 at 12:51 PM Shai Berger wrote: > >> On Tue, 26 Nov 2019 12:28:45 +0100 >> Maciek Olko wrote: >> >> > It looks like Transifex uses [1] Unicode Language Plural Rules [2]. >> > If they are incorrect for Hebrew, maybe

Re: ngettext_lazy and ngettext

On Wed, Nov 27, 2019 at 8:40 AM Matemática A3K wrote: > > Changes in the number of plurals for a language should be included in the > Release Notes, as it is changing the i18n API. > Thank you, I think it's very important to document such changes. Please notice, I think changing the rules shoul

Re: ngettext_lazy and ngettext

‪On Tue, Nov 26, 2019 at 2:18 AM ‫אורי‬‎ wrote:‬ > > > On Tue, Nov 26, 2019 at 8:13 AM Matemática A3K > wrote: > >> >> >> ‪On Mon, Nov 25, 2019 at 6:26 AM ‫אורי‬‎ wrote:‬ >> >>> >>> אורי, >> >> OK, have in mind that a change of the number of plurals for a language is >> kind (if not) of an API

Re: ngettext_lazy and ngettext

On Tue, Nov 26, 2019 at 12:51 PM Shai Berger wrote: > On Tue, 26 Nov 2019 12:28:45 +0100 > Maciek Olko wrote: > > > It looks like Transifex uses [1] Unicode Language Plural Rules [2]. > > If they are incorrect for Hebrew, maybe they should be fixed on > > Unicode side? > > > > Just for the recor

Re: ngettext_lazy and ngettext

On Tue, 26 Nov 2019 12:28:45 +0100 Maciek Olko wrote: > It looks like Transifex uses [1] Unicode Language Plural Rules [2]. > If they are incorrect for Hebrew, maybe they should be fixed on > Unicode side? > Just for the record, they are indeed wrong -- not in the sense that has sparked this th

Re: ngettext_lazy and ngettext

Thanks you, Maciej. I read the links and came across https://media.djangoproject.com/foundation/icla.pdf, where I decided not so sign it yet now. Especially not for submitting documentation of Django 2.2 release notes. If you or any of the Django developers want to document this issue, please cont

Re: ngettext_lazy and ngettext

Hi Uri, Regarding your past questions, If you want I can try to spend some time to help solving this specific > problem. I would start with documenting this issue in the release notes of > Django 2.2. I already opened a new task #30945 > for documenti

Re: ngettext_lazy and ngettext

Hi Maciej, I would not say the rules are incorrect. It depends on the case. In some cases they might be correct and there might be 3, 4 or even more plural forms. But in many other cases, two plural forms are enough. It depends on the strings being translated. I think in most cases, two plural for

Re: ngettext_lazy and ngettext

It looks like Transifex uses [1] Unicode Language Plural Rules [2]. If they are incorrect for Hebrew, maybe they should be fixed on Unicode side? Regards, Maciej [1] https://community.transifex.com/t/where-does-the-5-come-from-in-the-json-export-of-pluralized-strings/1389/2?u=m-aciek [2] http://w

Re: ngettext_lazy and ngettext

On Tue, Nov 26, 2019 at 8:13 AM Matemática A3K wrote: > > > ‪On Mon, Nov 25, 2019 at 6:26 AM ‫אורי‬‎ wrote:‬ > >> >> אורי, > > OK, have in mind that a change of the number of plurals for a language is > kind (if not) of an API change for i18n - now you have to feed a different > input - and shou

Re: ngettext_lazy and ngettext

‪On Mon, Nov 25, 2019 at 6:26 AM ‫אורי‬‎ wrote:‬ > Hi Matemática, > > I prefer to keep using Django 2.1 until there is a solution that doesn't > require so much effort from me when upgrading. I currently don't think we > need 4 strings (plural forms) in our project's .po files and anyway I don't

Re: ngettext_lazy and ngettext

Hi Matemática, I prefer to keep using Django 2.1 until there is a solution that doesn't require so much effort from me when upgrading. I currently don't think we need 4 strings (plural forms) in our project's .po files and anyway I don't want to change them manually, only if they are changed autom

Re: ngettext_lazy and ngettext

,אורי‎ Follow the instructions here if you want to change the plural form for your django project "temporarily": https://code.djangoproject.com/ticket/30439#comment:17 Maintaining several catalogs unmerged can lead to inconsistencies also if you don't keep track of all of them, which can lead to b

Re: ngettext_lazy and ngettext

Hi, I tried to join the Django team on Transifex about 3 weeks ago (for Hebrew) but I failed. I think there may be a better translation using 4 plural forms in Hebrew or even more, however with the current situation of Django 2.2 translation to Hebrew it seems to me that the last 2 strings are nev

Re: ngettext_lazy and ngettext

Hi Uri, As I understand it, the issue is around keeping this and all other PO files in the Django source updated and consistent in the future, since we rely on Transifex to provide them. Even if someone were to manually make the change you are suggesting, it would be overwritten the next time the

Re: ngettext_lazy and ngettext

Hi, I was not aware that even Django have several .po files itself (for each locale). I found out https://github.com/django/django/blob/master/django/conf/locale/he/LC_MESSAGES/django.po , which has about 15 translations of 4 strings (plural forms), but even there it seems to me that strings #1,2,

Re: ngettext_lazy and ngettext

Hi, Please see my latest comment on this ticket: https://code.djangoproject.com/ticket/30439#comment:27 I would like to suggest, since I understand the problem is per locale, and I'm only familiar with the Hebrew (he) locale: Can you revert https://github.com/django/django/blob/master/django/cont

Re: ngettext_lazy and ngettext

‪On Sat, Nov 23, 2019 at 9:17 AM ‫אורי‬‎ wrote:‬ > By the way, I read here that this bug it the fault of Transifex (not > Django). I'm not sure what that means, it worked in Django 2.1. Someone > made a decision to change something in Django 2.2, how can it be Transifex? > It must be a decision o

Re: ngettext_lazy and ngettext

Hi Adam / Django developers, I want to clarify if it was not clear - running makemessages after upgrading Django to 2.2 doesn't solve this problem. It doesn't. At least not in Hebrew. I didn't see any changes in the Django .po files after running makemessages in Django 2.2. אורי u...@speedy.net

Re: ngettext_lazy and ngettext

Hi Adam / Django developers, If you want I can try to spend some time to help solving this specific problem. I would start with documenting this issue in the release notes of Django 2.2. I already opened a new task #30945 for documenting this issue. Ho

Re: ngettext_lazy and ngettext

Uri, I understand this is frustrating for you as a user. Thank you for documenting your issues extensively so they're easy to follow. However it seems like a complicated problem and that Claude is the only person spending significant time working on translations these days. If you have some resour

Re: ngettext_lazy and ngettext

Django developers, https://code.djangoproject.com/ticket/30439 I think Django 2.2 (which is LTS) should be updated in a way that using these functions to translate will be backward-compatible, so that everything that worked with Django up to 2.1 will keep working in Django 2.2 and above. Currentl

Re: ngettext_lazy and ngettext

Hi, I checked and I didn't find anything related to this issue documented on the Django 2.2 release notes. Is it documented? אורי u...@speedy.net -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django developers (Contributions to Django itself)" group. To unsubsc

Re: ngettext_lazy and ngettext

Hi Claude, Thanks for the explanation, I understand the problem better now. I was not aware that the number of singular and plural forms depends on the language. I would like to clarify a few things: 1. Some of the strings used by "ngettext" or "ngettext_lazy" are unique to Speedy Net, some are n

Re: ngettext_lazy and ngettext

Hi Uri, I think you did not understand well the problem. Let me try to explain it in more details. Nothing was changed with "ngettext" or "ngettext_lazy" in Django. The plural equation for Hebrew was changed on the Transifex platform and those changes reach Django each time we synchronize tran

Re: ngettext_lazy and ngettext

Hi, I want to add that it was very simple to upgrade Django from 1.11 to 2.0 and then to 2.1, I only had to change minor changes in my code - changing to class-based views and updating my tests to reflect the 403 pages (instead of a 302 redirect), so thanks for maintaining Django and for not break