Hey Victor,
So far, only small steps -- my time hasn't provided for any thing "major"
yet. :)
My twitter will be a good place, as will this list. Right now, my head is
mainly in helping out with a couple of specific issues (formrendering, admin
sorting). There are some plans underway to provid
On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 12:07 AM, Victor Hooi wrote:
> Has there been any recent news?
If you watch the commit timeline
(https://code.djangoproject.com/timeline) you might have seen a
handful of UI cleanups that've done in over the past few months;
Idan's contributed to those. I can't recall 'em a
heya,
Aha, excellent stuff. I must have missed that thread.
Belated congrats to Idan =).
Where is the best place to find out what's happening on the design side of
things in Django?
Haven't really heard much about it, Idan's blog (http://blog.gazit.me/) and
Twitter (http://twitter.com/#!/idan
On Mon, 2011-06-27 at 00:10 -0700, Victor Hooi wrote:
> Was somebody made the Django design czar?
yes - Idan Gazit
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On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 4:10 AM, Victor Hooi wrote:
> heya,
> Sorry to resuscitate an old thread, but I was just wondering if there was
> any update on this? Was somebody made the Django design czar? Or is there
> any word on the Django admin redesign front?
> (https://groups.goo
heya,
Sorry to resuscitate an old thread, but I was just wondering if there was
any update on this? Was somebody made the Django design czar? Or is there
any word on the Django admin redesign front?
(https://groups.google.com/d/topic/django-developers/yk8m1haSF1M/discussion)
As an outsider
This is all very timely. Myself and my friend Harry Brignull (who runs
the UX blog http://www.90percentofeverything.com ) have been talking
for a while about the idea of doing some formal usability testing on
the Django admin and this might prove to be the catalyst.
I'll put together our plan and
I would be willing to give this wiki-gardening a try. Not as a Dev, but
merely an enthusiast
sent from the research lab at http://networksecuritynews.net
On Feb 8, 2010 5:11 PM, "Jeremy Dunck" wrote:
On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 4:00 PM, Wilson wrote:
> I've started a stub of a wiki pag...
There wer
On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 3:42 PM, j...@jeffcroft.com wrote:
> A designer ought to be able to say, "It'd be really useful to
> me if the 'if' tag supported basic operators, and I'd be happy to help
> someone understand the needs of designers with regard to it, but I'm
> not capable of building it my
Unfortunately, unless the person filing the
> request/ticket makes it clear that their request isn't something they
> can personally fulfill, it's hard to tell the difference between a
> person being lazy (i.e. wishing for a pony) and a person asking for
> assistance (i.e. a designer asking for a s
On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 4:00 PM, Wilson wrote:
> I've started a stub of a wiki page that anyone who's interested can
> start to share and collect ideas that require design work or input.
>
> http://code.djangoproject.com/wiki/DjangoDesign
>
> As the input outgrows the wiki page, or as individual pr
In my experience, Trac (or any bug tracker) isn't a good place to deal
with design issues, at least until they've reached the point where
they're concrete and actionable specs. On the other end, I don't think
we're quite far enough along yet to be able to deal with "design
tickets" yet, but that's
On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 3:42 PM, j...@jeffcroft.com wrote:
...
> One way I think design proposals/tickets need to be treated
> differently than other stuff is that there shouldn't be this, "sure,
> great idea, go build it and get back to us" attitude involved.
I agree with your general point, whic
I do totally agree with Idan that often times designers needs don't
have anything to do with design itself, and that designers may want to
contribute by telling us how the parts of the framework they touch
could be changed to make their lives easier.
One way I think design proposals/tickets need t
Hey Wilson, I'm sure I'm not the only one who is delighted that you
have some cycles to spare for Django. :)
As this thread was about practical matters, I'd say the next step is
deciding on a few things that we want to get done. Up at the top, I
suggested setting out a few modest goals for 1.3 as
Wait, does this mean we can't change designs just to wash the Wilson
out of them? :)
On Feb 8, 7:05 am, Russell Keith-Magee wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 2:34 PM, j...@jeffcroft.com wrote:
> > So, unless anyone disagrees with the idea that Wilson should have
> > first dibs on this position, it
On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 2:34 PM, j...@jeffcroft.com wrote:
> So, unless anyone disagrees with the idea that Wilson should have
> first dibs on this position, it sounds like we have ourselves a Design
> Czar. Or whatever you want to call it. Woot!
I, for one, welcome our new (erm... old) Design Ove
together this list with Bryan
> Veloso. My goal is to spark a discussion that will lead to appointing
> somebody with a few clear goals.
>
> "Django Design Czar"
>
> Rationale
> * Good design, like good code, is hard to produce.
> * Reviewing design is outside th
Good to see you guys are progressing.
I've red lots of interesting and valid input, but from what I can see
there is tearing decisions ahead and whoever
will take the design lead will be invariably limited by the current
state of the admin.
If you want to achieve something like we are doing with
So, unless anyone disagrees with the idea that Wilson should have
first dibs on this position, it sounds like we have ourselves a Design
Czar. Or whatever you want to call it. Woot!
On Feb 7, 10:13 pm, Wilson wrote:
> I just discovered this thread today while I was on my way out of town
> so I ha
I just discovered this thread today while I was on my way out of town
so I haven't had a chance to formulate a proper response. I'll try to
do that later, but for now I'll just jump in quickly and say that I
think it would be great to have somebody coordinating design
contributions and advocating f
Thanks for the nod, Tai. I'd have to put some consideration into
whether or not I wanted to accept the responsibility if it were
offered to me, but I certainly appreciate the "nomination!" :)
Just to quickly respond to this:
> But what's stopping people from re-designing the admin outside of
> dj
I agree with you completely, Russ, and I have reason to believe
someone worthy will be at the helm. Stay tuned. :)
On Feb 7, 6:49 pm, Russell Keith-Magee wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 6:25 AM, Idan Gazit wrote:
>
> > On Feb 7, 11:58 pm, "j...@jeffcroft.com" wrote:
> >> You're right, Idan. Sor
On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 6:25 AM, Idan Gazit wrote:
>
> On Feb 7, 11:58 pm, "j...@jeffcroft.com" wrote:
>> You're right, Idan. Sorry if I steered it off-track! I sent Wilson a
>> message asking him to check out this thread.
>
> Awesome, thanks!
>
>> I think we first need to make sure we ARE going f
It feels like a catch 22 situation. We need someone to champion and
shepherd design changes into trunk, but we can't assign such a role to
somebody who hasn't met the criteria that each core committer must
meet. To quote the Django documentation, any design czar or core
designer should have "a long
I think it's important to be clear here - I envisage a design czar to
act like a code committer:
- encourage, review, and shepherd work to completion
- assess different approaches to problems, and decide if necessary
- get minor improvements and fixes make into trunk
- make sure there's work ha
On Feb 7, 11:58 pm, "j...@jeffcroft.com" wrote:
> You're right, Idan. Sorry if I steered it off-track! I sent Wilson a
> message asking him to check out this thread.
Awesome, thanks!
> I think we first need to make sure we ARE going forward with this
> whole "design czar" idea. Neither Alex no
You're right, Idan. Sorry if I steered it off-track! I sent Wilson a
message asking him to check out this thread.
> What we haven't yet come to a consensus on how to bootstrap a
> design czar/team if Wilson is out. I'll be pleasantly surprised if he
> indicates his availability, but assuming that
Just to steer the discussion back to practical matters:
1. This thread isn't about what stuff we want to do in the admin, or
whether grappelli is great. How to improve the admin or any other
aspect of Django which has design issues is a great discussion! It
just isn't *this* discussion.
2. *This*
Yep, I think we are mostly in agreement, we just have different areas
of personal interest and passion within the "design for django"
realm. :)
On Feb 7, 10:41 am, jsmullyan wrote:
> Upon re-reading your last post more carefully, Jeff, I realize that
> you actually more-or-less agree with at leas
> You are indeed, but the admin UI is still the center of it. (As for
> the django website -- I would argue that's really a different matter
> than developing django itself, and seems to deserve a separate
> discussion.)
Well, our current "design czar" (Wilson) was tasked with the
responsibility
ks,
>
> > > Splitting off
> > > fromhttp://groups.google.com/group/django-developers/browse_thread/thread...,
> > > which has an exhaustive discussion about how django needs to treat
> > > design work.
>
> > > In the spirit of taking action
> Grappelli has done a great job of skinning the admin interface.
It depends which version you check. We are currently in the decision
of breaking appart from the Django admin and
create a standalone app or stick with it[0]..
We have started to be a lot more than a "skin". We are currently in
the
Upon re-reading your last post more carefully, Jeff, I realize that
you actually more-or-less agree with at least portions of what I
said. Sorry to kick up dust unnecessarily! My main concern is that
the "look" of the current admin is too hard to modify with the current
implementation, and I thin
On Feb 7, 12:52 pm, "j...@jeffcroft.com" wrote:
> Also, I'll say again: this discussion shouldn't really just be able
> the admin interface -- it should be more broad, talking about who can
> lead *anything* interaction design-related in the Django community.
>
> > If the admin application were de
gt; which has an exhaustive discussion about how django needs to treat
> > design work.
>
> > In the spirit of taking action, I put together this list with Bryan
> > Veloso. My goal is to spark a discussion that will lead to appointing
> > somebody with a few clear goals.
>
Several responses:
> First off, there are designers who have contributed great amounts of
> stuff to the Django community. Nathan Borror has his Basic Apps (which
> interestingly is a designer contributing code, because that's what he
> can contribute easily).
Exactly. Christian Metts comes to mi
t; which has an exhaustive discussion about how django needs to treat
> design work.
>
> In the spirit of taking action, I put together this list with Bryan
> Veloso. My goal is to spark a discussion that will lead to appointing
> somebody with a few clear goals.
>
> "Django De
Django needs someone who will start and get the admin job done, but
some decisions must be made before by the community. For example:
whether to use CSS reset or not? If, which one? While refactoring some
admin pieces we reduced number of CSS files to one. Would you accept
such solution? Why it's b
On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 9:11 AM, j...@jeffcroft.com wrote:
>> I'm opposed to this. Firstly, unless I've missed something whoever
> gets the position, would definitionally get it before they've done
> anything!
>
> To respond to just this bit: you're right, but the reason whoever gets
> this positi
let me just add one (more) point to this discussion (I´ve already
stressed this issue at the other thread).
IMO, when talking about the admin-interface, we´re talking about
different "construction zones":
– the whole structure and user experience with the admin-interface as
mentioned by jeff and o
On Feb 7, 6:06 am, Justin Lilly wrote:
> I, for
> one, am willing to trust their judgement on someone who can lead this
> design-czar selection process, if Wilson doesn't come out and name his
> successor, as it were.
Something that hasn't been explicitly said yet:
I *don't* think that the de
Responses inline.
On Feb 7, 2:26 am, "j...@jeffcroft.com" wrote:
> 1. I wouldn't say "Wilson is out of the picture" without talking to
> him first.
Amen. I was under the impression that he's definitively out of the
picture. If he can be lured back to the community, awesome.
> 2. Is there value
Just to hit on another point that might have been missed by Alex's -0/1 is
that we don't have someone to pick the positions.
When evaluating meritocracy, we've traditionally had someone who was able to
do the selection. Some number of Jacob / Simon / Adrian / other commiter has
effectively vetted
>
> I'm opposed to this. Firstly, unless I've missed something whoever
> gets the position, would definitionally get it before they've done
> anything! This is completely antithetical to the spirit of open
> source, meritocracy. Why should design be treated any different from
> other changes to
On Sat, Feb 6, 2010 at 6:26 PM, j...@jeffcroft.com wrote:
> First off, I'm generally on board with everything you've said here.
> Only three points/questions I'd like to make:
>
> 1. I wouldn't say "Wilson is out of the picture" without talking to
> him first. I know he's a busy man and my impress
On Sat, Feb 6, 2010 at 7:09 PM, j...@jeffcroft.com wrote:
> It's really hard to reconcile the open source mentality with the fact
> that design-by-commitee never works well. I'm not sure how to go about
> it, really. The "design czar" idea isn't perfect, but at least it's
> attempt to find a way t
/group/django-developers/browse_thread/thread...,
> > which has an exhaustive discussion about how django needs to treat
> > design work.
>
> > In the spirit of taking action, I put together this list with Bryan
> > Veloso. My goal is to spark a discussion that will lead t
ogle.com/group/django-developers/browse_thread/thread...,
> > which has an exhaustive discussion about how django needs to treat
> > design work.
>
> > In the spirit of taking action, I put together this list with Bryan
> > Veloso. My goal is to spark a discussion that w
spirit of taking action, I put together this list with Bryan
> Veloso. My goal is to spark a discussion that will lead to appointing
> somebody with a few clear goals.
>
> "Django Design Czar"
>
> Rationale
> * Good design, like good code, is hard to produce.
>
First off, I'm generally on board with everything you've said here.
Only three points/questions I'd like to make:
1. I wouldn't say "Wilson is out of the picture" without talking to
him first. I know he's a busy man and my impression is that he doesn't
have time for this right now, but I'm certain
A small addendum:
One way to think about the design czar is someone representing
designers' needs in Django proper. Arguably, we already had somebody
in this role -- Wilson -- and now we have a fantastic template
language and an admin which is still ahead of its time in many ways.
We wouldn't have
a discussion that will lead to appointing
somebody with a few clear goals.
"Django Design Czar"
Rationale
* Good design, like good code, is hard to produce.
* Reviewing design is outside the purview and abilities of the core
devs.
* The admin is dated, and in need of cleanup/refactori
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