Re: OCSP bypass in recent demo/exploit

2009-01-06 Thread Julien R Pierre - Sun Microsystems
Paul, Paul Hoffman wrote: It seems to me also that a self-signed certificate marked as a trust anchor, ie. a root, probably shouldn't have an AIA extension. Wait. No kind of certificate is marked as a trust anchor. I assume you probably me "root" as in a self-signed cert with the CA bit tur

Re: OCSP bypass in recent demo/exploit

2009-01-06 Thread Paul Hoffman
Is there any way I can suck back the last two messages I sent on this thread and pretend they never happened? I guess not. Please ignore my assertions about what the AIA extension does: I was completely wrong. As we were making the AIA extension in the PKIX WG, we discussed multiple proposals,

Re: OCSP bypass in recent demo/exploit

2009-01-06 Thread Ian G
On 6/1/09 04:01, Eddy Nigg wrote: On 01/06/2009 04:51 AM, Julien R Pierre - Sun Microsystems: It seems to me also that a self-signed certificate marked as a trust anchor, ie. a root, probably shouldn't have an AIA extension. At least it wouldn't make much sense for it to point to any OCSP respon

Re: OCSP bypass in recent demo/exploit

2009-01-06 Thread Rob Stradling
Looking at the http://www.win.tue.nl/hashclash/rogue-ca/ attack specifically... The "Equifax Secure Global eBusiness CA-1" self-signed Root Certificate trust anchor does *not* contain the Authority Info Access extension or CRL Distribution Points extension. The Rogue CA Certificate does *not* c

Re: OCSP bypass in recent demo/exploit

2009-01-05 Thread Kyle Hamilton
On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 8:14 PM, Paul Hoffman wrote: >>As far as I know, the AIA only applies to the end entity certificate, and not >>to any children certificates. Do you have any evidence in any standard that >>this is not the case ? >> > >From RFC3280 : >> >>4.2.2.1 Authority Information Acce

Re: OCSP bypass in recent demo/exploit

2009-01-05 Thread Paul Hoffman
At 6:51 PM -0800 1/5/09, Julien R Pierre - Sun Microsystems wrote: >Paul, > >Paul Hoffman wrote: > >>>3) A corollary of (2): Even when parent == grandparent, and hence parent >>>is also a sibling, it's not generally true that you can use the OCSP URL >>>from the parent to check the OCSP status of a

Re: OCSP bypass in recent demo/exploit

2009-01-05 Thread Eddy Nigg
On 01/06/2009 04:51 AM, Julien R Pierre - Sun Microsystems: It seems to me also that a self-signed certificate marked as a trust anchor, ie. a root, probably shouldn't have an AIA extension. At least it wouldn't make much sense for it to point to any OCSP responder, since the root cannot revoke i

Re: OCSP bypass in recent demo/exploit

2009-01-05 Thread Julien R Pierre - Sun Microsystems
Paul, Paul Hoffman wrote: 3) A corollary of (2): Even when parent == grandparent, and hence parent is also a sibling, it's not generally true that you can use the OCSP URL from the parent to check the OCSP status of a child. All of that is true (and is true for CRLs, I believe), but it is not

Re: OCSP bypass in recent demo/exploit

2009-01-05 Thread Paul Hoffman
At 4:01 PM -0800 1/5/09, Nelson B Bolyard wrote: >Paul Hoffman wrote, On 2009-01-05 08:54: >> At 3:09 PM +0100 1/5/09, Ian G wrote: > >>> [...] Hence, once we rogue-players have created a certificate like this, >>> the CA cannot revoke it using its own control mechanisms. [...] > >> I am not convi

Re: OCSP bypass in recent demo/exploit

2009-01-05 Thread Nelson B Bolyard
Paul Hoffman wrote, On 2009-01-05 08:54: > At 3:09 PM +0100 1/5/09, Ian G wrote: >> [...] Hence, once we rogue-players have created a certificate like this, >> the CA cannot revoke it using its own control mechanisms. [...] > I am not convinced the article is correct. If it is correct, it is a

Re: OCSP bypass in recent demo/exploit

2009-01-05 Thread Nelson B Bolyard
Ian G wrote, On 2009-01-05 06:09: > The recent MD5 collision attack has also demonstrated a "brittle" side > of OCSP [1]: I wouldn't call it an attribute of OCSP any more than it is an attribute of revocation in general. The same thing is true for CRLs that is true for OCSP. The relying party l

Re: OCSP bypass in recent demo/exploit

2009-01-05 Thread Paul Hoffman
At 3:09 PM +0100 1/5/09, Ian G wrote: >The recent MD5 collision attack has also demonstrated a "brittle" side of OCSP >[1]: > >http://blogs.technet.com/swi/archive/2008/12/30/information-regarding-md5-collisions-problem.aspx > >It seems that, assuming we can create an intermediate or subroot certi

OCSP bypass in recent demo/exploit

2009-01-05 Thread Ian G
The recent MD5 collision attack has also demonstrated a "brittle" side of OCSP [1]: http://blogs.technet.com/swi/archive/2008/12/30/information-regarding-md5-collisions-problem.aspx It seems that, assuming we can create an intermediate or subroot certificate, then we can also redirect the OCSP