Re: mvn install vs mvn verify

2022-11-16 Thread Olivier Lamy
Agree not sure why such "marketing buzz around this" as the idea is to share artifacts so they need to be installed or deployed. The only issue I can see with install vs verify is the compilation of everything all the time. because m-compiler-p detects a new artifact of a module in the reactor and

Re: [DISCUSS] Quo Vadis Maven Site

2022-11-16 Thread Tamás Cservenák
Howdy, So, here is "stage No1" that pretty much already delivers what existing site had: https://github.com/jaxen-xpath/jaxen/pull/145 Point is: before, it was two runs to build and site (and took a total of 2 minutes), while now it is 10 seconds more than "build artifacts" (35 sec). To build it

Re: [DISCUSS] Quo Vadis Maven Site

2022-11-16 Thread Tamás Cservenák
Howdy, I am pretty much convinced it can do all that site is able to do. Let's see the jaxen conversion result once done. Also, this would not push anything, I always wrote (at least intended to) "static site tool is left at discretion of user", I just mentioned JBake as something that can buy ou

Re: [DISCUSS] Quo Vadis Maven Site

2022-11-16 Thread Benjamin Marwell
Please do NOT consider jbake. We (shiro team) ported the page to jbake, and it is really a mess. Many things are not supported which can easily be done in other static site generators. There is absolutely no progress. No java.time support. JSON/YAML support is broken and needs a lot of workarounds.

Re: Maven 3 API, backwards compatibility

2022-11-16 Thread Guillaume Nodet
I don't think would OSGi actually bring much in our case. The goal is to have maven-core only export a given set of packages to the plugins, with no libraries at all. Each plugin has its own classloader only importing the v4 api from maven-core. Le mer. 16 nov. 2022 à 13:00, Christoph Läubrich

Re: Maven 3 API, backwards compatibility

2022-11-16 Thread Romain Manni-Bucau
Hi, Guess classrealm is fine for maven, it does not bring much issues (less than OSGi or JPMS to be concrete), the real issue is the stability of the exposed API. Thanks the hard work Guillaume did on that for maven 4 I guess it is mainly a matter of deciding what we do for maven 3. Due to the res

Re: [VOTE] Maven Dependency Tree 3.2.1

2022-11-16 Thread Tamás Cservenák
That page is part of "admin" bits, so Olivier pasted wrong one, here is the correct one: https://issues.apache.org/jira/issues/?jql=project%20%3D%20MSHARED%20AND%20fixVersion%20%3D%20maven-dependency-tree-3.2.1 On Wed, Nov 16, 2022 at 1:11 PM Elliotte Rusty Harold wrote: > "Sorry, you can't view

Re: [DISCUSS] Quo Vadis Maven Site

2022-11-16 Thread Tamás Cservenák
Howdy, I am pretty much sure your site could be pretty much "transported" to use jbake-maven-plugin instead of maven-site-plugin. I am aware of the long history of the Maven project, being here since 2006, but still... I don't think what I propose is "build a lamborghini instead of a ford pickup"

Re: [VOTE] Maven Dependency Tree 3.2.1

2022-11-16 Thread Elliotte Rusty Harold
"Sorry, you can't view this page This page is only available to Jira Software users. If you think you should be a Jira Software user, you should ask your administrator to give you application access to Jira Software." Is something misconfigured in Jira? I shouldn't have to be logged in to see thi

Re: [DISCUSS] Quo Vadis Maven Site

2022-11-16 Thread Elliotte Rusty Harold
I like some parts of this. I don't agree with others. I agree that maven site isn't competitive with other site builders, but that was never really its purpose. I think it's OK for generating a site for a Maven project. I wouldn't expect it to be used for anything else. As a maintainer of one such

Re: Maven 3 API, backwards compatibility

2022-11-16 Thread Christoph Läubrich
If you really like to separate API and get out of the ClassRealm-Hell OSGi would be much more suitable: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/MNG-7518 Am 16.11.22 um 12:30 schrieb Gary Gregory: As much as I dislike JPMS, maybe Maven 4 should migrate to Java 9 or 11 and adopt JPMS to better def

Re: Maven 3 API, backwards compatibility

2022-11-16 Thread Tamás Cservenák
Maybe Maven 5, as if we do it in 4, we would break the whole world :) Maven 4 will provide API, but will also keep "backward compat" to Maven 3, kinda offer "transition time" for the plugins from 3 to 4. Maven 2 compatibility is out of scope naturally. So with initial Maven 4 releases, plugins shou

Re: Maven 3 API, backwards compatibility

2022-11-16 Thread Gary Gregory
As much as I dislike JPMS, maybe Maven 4 should migrate to Java 9 or 11 and adopt JPMS to better define its public APIs. Gary On Wed, Nov 16, 2022, 05:06 Tamás Cservenák wrote: > Yes, to define rules is quite easy, but to make our users to obey them is > tricky :D > > In general, I guess, we sh

Re: Maven 3 API, backwards compatibility

2022-11-16 Thread Konrad Windszus
On 2022/11/16 10:04:36 Tamás Cservenák wrote: ... > In general, I guess, we should. For this reason JapiCmp has been used in > Resolver since 1.9.0 (as noted on refd page end). I added https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/MNG-7598 to track that. Currently we did a poor job when this was intend

[DISCUSS] Quo Vadis Maven Site

2022-11-16 Thread Tamás Cservenák
Howdy, This is really just a brainstorming thread I'd like to spin, regarding Maven Site stuff. Again, the message is in wiki https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/MAVEN/Quo+Vadis+Maven+Site But I would like to make discussion happen here on dev ML. Thanks T

Re: Maven 3 API, backwards compatibility

2022-11-16 Thread Tamás Cservenák
Yes, to define rules is quite easy, but to make our users to obey them is tricky :D In general, I guess, we should. For this reason JapiCmp has been used in Resolver since 1.9.0 (as noted on refd page end). But while this was "kinda simple" to achieve in Resolver, I am really unsure if it is doab

Re: Maven 3 API, backwards compatibility

2022-11-16 Thread Konrad Windszus
I guess this is the easy part, the tricky question remains: Do we need to make sure that all Maven 3 API interfaces/classes stay 100% backwards compatible until we reach 4.100/5.0/whatever? This wasn't handled consistently in master till now, e.g. the classes generated from https://github.com/

Re: Maven 3 API, backwards compatibility

2022-11-16 Thread Tamás Cservenák
Addendum: 1, we did discuss this Resolver 1.9.1 page with @Guillaume Nodet and we agreed it has to change. Resolver was always using these Javadoc tags to mark the intent, but we should switch to annotations (Resolver predates Java5). This implies we'd need some "maven-really-shared-tooling" stuff

Re: Maven 3 API, backwards compatibility

2022-11-16 Thread Tamás Cservenák
Unsure we want to deprecate all of Maven :) But yes, in general, 3.x "Maven API" was "all that users can grab" sadly, and is probably our major source of problems and reason we started Maven 4 API. IMO, I'd consider them as "whole", and just say "starting with Maven 4.100/5.0/whatever" the maven-

Re: Maven 3 API, backwards compatibility

2022-11-16 Thread Konrad Windszus
I see now there is already https://github.com/apache/maven/blob/master/api/maven-api-meta/src/main/java/org/apache/maven/api/annotations/Provider.java but to me the javadoc is not explicit enough. It should state: Only Maven is allowed to implement/extend types with this annotation. Konrad On

Maven 3 API, backwards compatibility

2022-11-16 Thread Konrad Windszus
Hi, Unfortunately Maven 3 didn’t define a proper API. In effect everything somehow exposed through class loaders was considered API by plugin/extension developers. For Maven 4 a completely separate API was established in package “org.apache.maven.api”, but what about the old packages used and exp

Re: [VOTE] Maven Apache Parent 28 - Maven Shared Resources 5 - Maven Parent 38

2022-11-16 Thread Slawomir Jaranowski
Please also update documentation sites: https://maven.apache.org/pom-archives/asf-LATEST/ https://maven.apache.org/pom-archives/maven-LATEST/ https://maven.apache.org/shared-archives/maven-shared-resources-LATEST/ wt., 15 lis 2022 o 10:18 Guillaume Nodet napisał(a): > I've staged a few release

Re: [VOTE] Maven Dependency Tree 3.2.1

2022-11-16 Thread Slawomir Jaranowski
+1 śr., 16 lis 2022 o 03:05 Olivier Lamy napisał(a): > Hi, > I'd like to release Maven Dependency Tree 3.2.1 > We made one enhancement > https://issues.apache.org/jira/projects/MSHARED/versions/12352234 > > Staging repository > https://repository.apache.org/content/repositories/maven-1826/ > > s

Re: [DISCUSS] Notes For Maven Plugin Developers

2022-11-16 Thread Christoph Läubrich
One note about: > Note: this dependency in test scope is "acceptable" and actually required by some testing frameworks (see below). I think it is actually *not* acceptable and will cause confusions and there are already some work going on not requiring it anymore, so probably this can be upd

Re: [VOTE] Release Maven Resolver 1.9.1

2022-11-16 Thread Slawomir Jaranowski
+1 pon., 14 lis 2022 o 15:25 Tamás Cservenák napisał(a): > Howdy, > > We solved 5 issues: > > https://issues.apache.org/jira/issues/?jql=project%20%3D%20MRESOLVER%20AND%20fixVersion%20%3D%201.9.1 > > There are still some issues in JIRA: > https://issues.apache.org/jira/projects/MRESOLVER/issues

[DISCUSS] Notes For Maven Plugin Developers

2022-11-16 Thread Tamás Cservenák
Howdy, Recently we had several queries about testing Maven Plugins, but in general I think we should make plugin developers aware of incoming changes. Hence, I assembled the following wiki page, that may become Maven Site page as well, and (irrelevant is it becoming site page or not) probably shou