On 9/15/22 11:45 AM, Maude Summerside wrote:
>
> On 2022-09-14 23:23, Chuck Zmudzinski wrote:
> > On 9/14/2022 11:01 PM, Maude Summerside wrote:
> >>
> >> On 2022-09-14 21:45, Michael Stone wrote:
> >>> On Wed, Sep 14, 2022 at 11:16:00PM +0100, Steve McIntyre wrote:
> I'll be brutally honest:
Maude Summerside wrote:
>
>
> On 2022-09-14 21:45, Michael Stone wrote:
> > On Wed, Sep 14, 2022 at 11:16:00PM +0100, Steve McIntyre wrote:
> >> I'll be brutally honest: being accused of "possibly malicious"
> >> unwilligness is *not* a great way to convince overstretched volunteers
> >> to spen
On 2022-09-14 23:23, Chuck Zmudzinski wrote:
> On 9/14/2022 11:01 PM, Maude Summerside wrote:
>>
>> On 2022-09-14 21:45, Michael Stone wrote:
>>> On Wed, Sep 14, 2022 at 11:16:00PM +0100, Steve McIntyre wrote:
I'll be brutally honest: being accused of "possibly malicious"
unwilligness
Jude
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
.
On Wed, 14 Sep 2022, Steve McIntyre wrote:
> Stefan wrote:
> In article you
> write:
> >> the interest of the user. These "volunteers" ob
On 9/14/2022 11:01 PM, Maude Summerside wrote:
>
> On 2022-09-14 21:45, Michael Stone wrote:
> > On Wed, Sep 14, 2022 at 11:16:00PM +0100, Steve McIntyre wrote:
> >> I'll be brutally honest: being accused of "possibly malicious"
> >> unwilligness is *not* a great way to convince overstretched volun
On 2022-09-14 21:45, Michael Stone wrote:
> On Wed, Sep 14, 2022 at 11:16:00PM +0100, Steve McIntyre wrote:
>> I'll be brutally honest: being accused of "possibly malicious"
>> unwilligness is *not* a great way to convince overstretched volunteers
>> to spend their time on issues.
>
> Especiall
On 9/14/22 6:16 PM, Steve McIntyre wrote:
> Stefan wrote:
> In article you
> write:
> >> the interest of the user. These "volunteers" obviously have other,
> >> possibly malicious, interests if they prove themselves unwilling to
> >> apply fixes to bugs that are reported to them.
> >
> >I think t
On Wed, Sep 14, 2022 at 11:16:00PM +0100, Steve McIntyre wrote:
I'll be brutally honest: being accused of "possibly malicious"
unwilligness is *not* a great way to convince overstretched volunteers
to spend their time on issues.
Especially when it's an ongoing pattern of discourse.
On 2022-09-14 17:06, Thiemo Kellner wrote:
> Am 14.09.22 um 18:39 schrieb Maude Summerside:
>> This is where intellectual shortcut starts...
>> Free/OSS doesn't mean GPL.
>> There's plenty of Free/OSS software that the copyright owner retains
>> right to commercial licensing. Just look at librar
Stefan wrote:
In article you write:
>> the interest of the user. These "volunteers" obviously have other,
>> possibly malicious, interests if they prove themselves unwilling to
>> apply fixes to bugs that are reported to them.
>
>I think there's a confusion here: these volunteers will also have
>"
Am 14.09.22 um 18:39 schrieb Maude Summerside:
This is where intellectual shortcut starts...
Free/OSS doesn't mean GPL.
There's plenty of Free/OSS software that the copyright owner retains
right to commercial licensing. Just look at libraries, some of them will
be in such a licensing term that if
On 2022-09-14 08:31, Chuck Zmudzinski wrote:
>>> For example, most web
>>> browsers are based on chromium, a free oss project that comes in large part
>>> from
>>> Google, but some of the most-used browsers in the world based on chromium
>>> are proprietary, such as chrome and edge.
>> I am no
People of debian-user :)
This thread does seem to be degenerating slightly into accusations and
name-calling, justified or not. Without prejudice to anyone: please may
I remind you that debian-user and all Debian lists and IRC channels are
subject to the Debian Code of Conduct.
It would be very m
On 9/14/2022 9:06 AM, The Wanderer wrote:
> On 2022-09-14 at 08:51, Chuck Zmudzinski wrote:
>
> > On 9/14/2022 1:03 AM, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> >
> >> On Tue, Sep 13, 2022 at 03:41:11PM -0400, Chuck Zmudzinski wrote:
> >>
> >> [...]
> >>
> >>> Actually, someone already has shown us how to do it b
On 9/13/2022 7:11 PM, Thiemo Kellner wrote:
> Am 13.09.22 um 23:55 schrieb Chuck Zmudzinski:
> >
>
> > I am fairly sure I was a victim of
> > the breach of Yahoo that affected hundreds of millions of its users.
> I am sorry for you. I do not know this case, so I cannot tell whether
> OSS or CSS c
On 2022-09-14 at 08:51, Chuck Zmudzinski wrote:
> On 9/14/2022 1:03 AM, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Sep 13, 2022 at 03:41:11PM -0400, Chuck Zmudzinski wrote:
>>
>> [...]
>>
>>> Actually, someone already has shown us how to do it better. His name is
>>> Linus Torvalds [...]
>>
>> I don't k
On 9/14/2022 1:03 AM, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> On Tue, Sep 13, 2022 at 03:41:11PM -0400, Chuck Zmudzinski wrote:
>
> [...]
>
> > Actually, someone already has shown us how to do it better. His name is
> > Linus Torvalds [...]
>
> I don't know what your aim is.
>
> I have the impression that it's j
On 9/14/2022 7:08 AM, debian-u...@howorth.org.uk wrote:
> > On 9/13/2022 3:59 PM, err...@free.fr wrote:
> > > Please STOP!
> > >
> > > you are annoying, and if you want improve free softwares, is not
> > > like this. you will better contribute with your code or with your
> > > translations than by
On 9/13/2022 7:11 PM, Thiemo Kellner wrote:
> Am 13.09.22 um 23:55 schrieb Chuck Zmudzinski:
> > On 9/13/2022 4:14 PM, Thiemo Kellner wrote:
> > I think Megha is emphasizing, and possibly over-emphasizing, the fact
> > that the persons
> > who actually commit the code in free software projects can
On 9/13/2022 6:47 PM, Stefan Monnier wrote:
> > If free/oss projects like Debian want to provide software with those
> > positive characteristics to their users, those projects must have in
> > place some level of oversight over what the persons who actually write
> > the software actually do, or d
On 9/13/2022 4:38 PM, Stefan Monnier wrote:
> > The users. They stop using software or any product that does not work
> > well or is more trouble than it is worth. Then the entity, whether
> > a free/oss or proprietary provider ends up shutting down
> > the enterprise.
>
> But, being Free Software,
> On 9/13/2022 3:59 PM, err...@free.fr wrote:
> > Please STOP!
> >
> > you are annoying, and if you want improve free softwares, is not
> > like this. you will better contribute with your code or with your
> > translations than by writing to this mailing-list
I agree with the sentiments of annoy
On Tue, Sep 13, 2022 at 03:41:11PM -0400, Chuck Zmudzinski wrote:
[...]
> Actually, someone already has shown us how to do it better. His name is
> Linus Torvalds [...]
I don't know what your aim is.
I have the impression that it's just arguing for arguing's sake [1].
My time is too short to t
Am 13.09.22 um 23:55 schrieb Chuck Zmudzinski:
On 9/13/2022 4:14 PM, Thiemo Kellner wrote:
I think Megha is emphasizing, and possibly over-emphasizing, the fact
that the persons
who actually commit the code in free software projects can operate with little
or
no oversight when they are just vo
On Tue, Sep 13, 2022 at 3:48 PM Stefan Monnier wrote:
>
> > If free/oss projects like Debian want to provide software with those
> > positive characteristics to their users, those projects must have in
> > place some level of oversight over what the persons who actually write
> > the software actu
On 9/13/2022 4:31 PM, Stefan Monnier wrote:
> > the interest of the user. These "volunteers" obviously have other,
> > possibly malicious, interests if they prove themselves unwilling to
> > apply fixes to bugs that are reported to them.
>
> I think there's a confusion here: these volunteers will a
On 9/13/2022 4:14 PM, Thiemo Kellner wrote:
> Am 12.09.22 um 19:47 schrieb Chuck Zmudzinski:
> > "Open Source Software is accessible to all means it can be used and
> > misused.
> > And, that’s where it turns unconstructive for us. With OSS, we can expect
> > harm,
> > virus transfer, identity bu
Am 12.09.22 um 19:47 schrieb Chuck Zmudzinski:
"Open Source Software is accessible to all means it can be used and
misused.
And, that’s where it turns unconstructive for us. With OSS, we can expect harm,
virus transfer, identity burglary, and many other malicious practices to hurt
the
process
On 9/13/2022 3:59 PM, err...@free.fr wrote:
> Please STOP!
>
> you are annoying, and if you want improve free softwares, is not like this.
> you will better contribute with your code or with your translations than by
> writing to this mailing-list
The problem is, with all due respect, that I do h
Please STOP!
you are annoying, and if you want improve free softwares, is not like this.
you will better contribute with your code or with your translations than by
writing to this mailing-list
I want you kicked from this list.
On 9/13/2022 2:33 PM, Michael Stone wrote:
> On Tue, Sep 13, 2022 at 02:14:38PM -0400, Chuck Zmudzinski wrote:
> >So do you, obviously. Someone said something that raised that question in my
> >mind,
> >but you deleted that part from this message, which proves you are the one
> >who has
> >an ax
On Tue, Sep 13, 2022 at 02:14:38PM -0400, Chuck Zmudzinski wrote:
So do you, obviously. Someone said something that raised that question in my
mind,
but you deleted that part from this message, which proves you are the one who
has
an ax to grind by not answering the question that has been raise
On 9/13/2022 2:02 PM, Michael Stone wrote:
> On Tue, Sep 13, 2022 at 12:42:12PM -0400, Chuck Zmudzinski wrote:
> >Software projects today, IIUC, are communities. The "volunteers" should do
> >what the community
> >wants, not necessarily what you or I want. Do you think the free/oss
> >software co
On Tue, Sep 13, 2022 at 12:42:12PM -0400, Chuck Zmudzinski wrote:
Software projects today, IIUC, are communities. The "volunteers" should do what
the community
wants, not necessarily what you or I want. Do you think the free/oss software
community wants
volunteers who ignore bugs or refuse to f
On Tue, 13 Sep 2022, Chuck Zmudzinski wrote:
I agree with that. But the price-performance ratio could be even better if the
"volunteers"
in free/oss software projects were not free to ignore bugs reported to them.
Pretty much everything worked for this grub bug other than some
unfortunate se
On 9/13/2022 12:36 PM, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> On Tue, Sep 13, 2022 at 12:25:40PM -0400, Chuck Zmudzinski wrote:
>
> [...]
>
> > I agree with that. But the price-performance ratio could be even better if
> > the "volunteers"
> > in free/oss software projects were not free to ignore bugs reported
On Tue, Sep 13, 2022 at 12:25:40PM -0400, Chuck Zmudzinski wrote:
[...]
> I agree with that. But the price-performance ratio could be even better if
> the "volunteers"
> in free/oss software projects were not free to ignore bugs reported to them.
Hm. I doubt that. Perhaps they will do more what
On 9/13/2022 11:53 AM, Michael Stone wrote:
> On Tue, Sep 13, 2022 at 11:27:43AM -0400, Chuck Zmudzinski wrote:
> >On 9/13/2022 12:36 AM, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> >> On Mon, Sep 12, 2022 at 03:32:27PM -0400, Michael Stone wrote:
> >>
> >> > [...] "I can't get personalized/dedicated support with en
On 9/13/2022 11:44 AM, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> On Tue, Sep 13, 2022 at 11:27:43AM -0400, Chuck Zmudzinski wrote:
> > On 9/13/2022 12:36 AM, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> > > On Mon, Sep 12, 2022 at 03:32:27PM -0400, Michael Stone wrote:
> > >
> > > > [...] "I can't get personalized/dedicated support
On Tue, Sep 13, 2022 at 11:27:43AM -0400, Chuck Zmudzinski wrote:
On 9/13/2022 12:36 AM, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
On Mon, Sep 12, 2022 at 03:32:27PM -0400, Michael Stone wrote:
> [...] "I can't get personalized/dedicated support with enforceable
> SLAs for free"
If the requirement that maintai
On Tue, Sep 13, 2022 at 11:27:43AM -0400, Chuck Zmudzinski wrote:
> On 9/13/2022 12:36 AM, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> > On Mon, Sep 12, 2022 at 03:32:27PM -0400, Michael Stone wrote:
> >
> > > [...] "I can't get personalized/dedicated support with enforceable
> > > SLAs for free"
>
> If the require
On 9/13/2022 12:36 AM, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> On Mon, Sep 12, 2022 at 03:32:27PM -0400, Michael Stone wrote:
>
> > [...] "I can't get personalized/dedicated support with enforceable
> > SLAs for free"
If the requirement that maintainers and developers of free/oss software must
actually
fix the
On Mon, Sep 12, 2022 at 03:32:27PM -0400, Michael Stone wrote:
> [...] "I can't get personalized/dedicated support with enforceable
> SLAs for free"
Had I a printer, I'd print out this, frame it and hang it on the
wall. This makes the point very nicely :-)
Cheers
--
t
signature.asc
Descriptio
On 9/12/22 3:32 PM, Michael Stone wrote:
> On Mon, Sep 12, 2022 at 01:47:49PM -0400, Chuck Zmudzinski wrote:
> >Well, I suppose so, but I am pleased that a grub maintainer is now on the
> >case. Still,
> >there is another Debian bug that affects me that continues to be ignored, so
> >I admit
> >I
On Mon, Sep 12, 2022 at 01:47:49PM -0400, Chuck Zmudzinski wrote:
Well, I suppose so, but I am pleased that a grub maintainer is now on the case.
Still,
there is another Debian bug that affects me that continues to be ignored, so I
admit
I have an attitude about that. I accept that what is of g
On 2022-09-12 at 14:50, Chuck Zmudzinski wrote:
> On 9/12/2022 1:58 PM, The Wanderer wrote:
>
>> On 2022-09-12 at 13:47, Chuck Zmudzinski wrote:
>>> I wish to merely point out that what is often said about the
>>> advantages and disadvantages of free, open-source software that
>>> is maintained
On 9/12/2022 1:58 PM, The Wanderer wrote:
> On 2022-09-12 at 13:47, Chuck Zmudzinski wrote:
>
> > On 9/12/2022 12:14 PM, David Wright wrote:
> >
> >> On Mon 12 Sep 2022 at 11:13:52 (-0400), Chuck Zmudzinski wrote:
>
> >>> The grub maintainers do not have the time or interest to fix it.
> >>> Perha
On Mon, Sep 12, 2022 at 01:47:49PM -0400, Chuck Zmudzinski wrote:
[...]
> [...] A disadvantage is that often the priorities of the developers who
> release
> free, open source software are not always the same as the priorities of any
> particular
> user [...]
This might have been different bac
On 2022-09-12 at 13:47, Chuck Zmudzinski wrote:
> On 9/12/2022 12:14 PM, David Wright wrote:
>
>> On Mon 12 Sep 2022 at 11:13:52 (-0400), Chuck Zmudzinski wrote:
>>> The grub maintainers do not have the time or interest to fix it.
>>> Perhaps the Xen users could try to convince the Xen maintaine
On 9/12/2022 12:14 PM, David Wright wrote:
> On Mon 12 Sep 2022 at 11:13:52 (-0400), Chuck Zmudzinski wrote:
> > On 9/12/2022 12:55 AM, David Wright wrote:
> > >
> > > I would imagine a fix could follow quite quickly as it only requires
> > > rebuilding with a filename added to a list of files not
On Mon 12 Sep 2022 at 11:13:52 (-0400), Chuck Zmudzinski wrote:
> On 9/12/2022 12:55 AM, David Wright wrote:
> > On Mon 12 Sep 2022 at 01:15:47 (+0200), Tom Lew wrote:
> > > This is my first post, bear with me..
> > >
> > > Package "grub-xen-host" shipped with point release 11.5 broke all PV
> > >
On 9/12/2022 12:55 AM, David Wright wrote:
> On Mon 12 Sep 2022 at 01:15:47 (+0200), Tom Lew wrote:
> > This is my first post, bear with me..
> >
> > Package "grub-xen-host" shipped with point release 11.5 broke all PV
> > domains on my Xen server, after "apt upgrade" from 11.4.
> >
> > I found h
On Mon 12 Sep 2022 at 01:15:47 (+0200), Tom Lew wrote:
> This is my first post, bear with me..
>
> Package "grub-xen-host" shipped with point release 11.5 broke all PV
> domains on my Xen server, after "apt upgrade" from 11.4.
>
> I found https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1017944
On Mon, 12 Sep 2022, Tom Lew wrote:
This is my first post, bear with me..
Package "grub-xen-host" shipped with point release 11.5 broke all PV domains
on my Xen server, after "apt upgrade" from 11.4.
I found https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1017944 exactly
mirroring my situ
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