On Sun, Dec 15, 2002 at 09:09:48AM -0800, Craig Dickson wrote:
> Eric G. Miller wrote:
>
> > On Sat, Dec 14, 2002 at 08:46:43PM -0800, Craig Dickson wrote:
> >
> > > Yes, but the question is, how usable is it in practice?
> > [snip]
> >
> > People use "tasks" in Ada on a regular basis. So, it
Eric G. Miller wrote:
> On Sat, Dec 14, 2002 at 08:46:43PM -0800, Craig Dickson wrote:
>
> > Yes, but the question is, how usable is it in practice?
> [snip]
>
> People use "tasks" in Ada on a regular basis. So, it must be usable,
> neigh?
By the same reasoning, concurrency support in C and C
On Sat, Dec 14, 2002 at 08:46:43PM -0800, Craig Dickson wrote:
> Yes, but the question is, how usable is it in practice?
[snip]
People use "tasks" in Ada on a regular basis. So, it must be usable,
neigh?
> I have never learned Ada, partly because I've never needed to and
> partially because it
Rob Weir wrote:
> Just coming off a concurrent systems course at my Uni: Ada was created
> for this sort of thing; i.e. it has built in support for concurrency,
> rendezvouses (is that a plural already), monitors, etc, etc at the
> language level.
Yes, but the question is, how usable is it in pra
On Fri, Dec 13, 2002 at 01:50:06PM -0800, Craig Dickson wrote:
> Eric G. Miller wrote:
>
> > Ada "tasks" provide concurrency. I'm not enough of a language expert
> > to discuss the merits, but folks seem to use them...
>
> I'm not an Ada expert either, but the fact that people use it isn't
> much
Eric G. Miller wrote:
> Ada "tasks" provide concurrency. I'm not enough of a language expert
> to discuss the merits, but folks seem to use them...
I'm not an Ada expert either, but the fact that people use it isn't
much of an argument. People do multi-threaded programming in C, too,
and ANSI C h
On Thu, Dec 12, 2002 at 10:11:26PM -0800, Craig Dickson wrote:
[snip]
> It really is a cool language; the only one I know of with a really
> usable concurrency model. (C/C++ have no concurrency model; Java's
> requires programmers to stick the "synchronized" keyword in all the
> right places; Haske
Craig Dickson wrote:
> Erlang is not only free software, but it's already packaged for Debian
> (though I think it's been orphaned; it's in stable, but no longer in
> testing or unstable).
(Whacks self with ruler)
My first search must have been set to "stable only"; on second glance, I
see that
Paul Mackinney wrote:
> Heh, me too! (Although likely on a more modest scale) I've just finished
> a Programming Languages course where we used Haskell to write a lambda
> calculus evaluator. Writing the input expressions as structures (Lambda
> "x" (Var "y")) was so irritating that I wrote a pars
David Z Maze declaimed:
> One of these days
> I'll get around to doing a reasonable-sized project in Haskell,
> though: it has an incredible type system and seems to do the right
> thing around "classes", though this is only so meaningful in a purely
> functional language. Saying "well, I wrote ab
On Thu, Nov 21, 2002 at 07:41:19PM +, Colin Watson wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 21, 2002 at 01:49:35PM -0500, Michael P. Soulier wrote:
> > On 20/11/02 Kent West did speaketh:
> > > However, as I started to download the SDK from Sun's web site, it
> > > started bothering me more and more that Sun's li
On Thu, Nov 21, 2002 at 07:41:19PM +, Colin Watson wrote:
> > > However, as I started to download the SDK from Sun's web site, it
> >
> > I'm confused. Isn't this what we have a non-free section for?
>
> We still have to be able to distribute it to put it in non-free. As I
> understand
Kent West <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Shaleh was the one to plug python first. But what dman says here gets
> my attention. Do others concur that python is more cross-platform and
> more OO than java? What are the disadvantages with python as opposed
> to java? Why would someone pick java over py
"Michael" == Michael P Soulier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
Michael> On 20/11/02 Kent West did speaketh:
>> However, as I started to download the SDK from Sun's web site,
>> it started bothering me more and more that Sun's license is
>> such that it prevents Debian from includin
On Thu, 2002-11-21 at 02:23, Sean 'Shaleh' Perry wrote:
> On Thursday 21 November 2002 00:12, Ron Johnson wrote:
> > On Thu, 2002-11-21 at 00:18, Kirk Strauser wrote:
> > > At 2002-11-21T05:06:49Z, Kent West <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
[snip]
> > > mess. Sun may very well develop and maintain Java
On Thu, Nov 21, 2002 at 01:49:35PM -0500, Michael P. Soulier wrote:
> On 20/11/02 Kent West did speaketh:
> > However, as I started to download the SDK from Sun's web site, it
> > started bothering me more and more that Sun's license is such that it
> > prevents Debian from including it as part o
* Oki DZ ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [021121 01:05]:
> On Wed, Nov 20, 2002 at 11:34:16PM -0600, Michael Kahle wrote:
> > Is the standard, "controlled entirely by Sun"?
>
> It's by the JCP.
> Anyone may join the JCP; I don't think that Java is controlled mainly by
> Sun.
>
> > I'm not sure how mature th
On 21/11/02 Kent West did speaketh:
> Shaleh was the one to plug python first. But what dman says here gets my
> attention. Do others concur that python is more cross-platform and more
> OO than java? What are the disadvantages with python as opposed to java?
> Why would someone pick java over
On Thursday 21 November 2002 10:42 am, Kent West wrote:
> Derrick 'dman' Hudson wrote:
> >On Wed, Nov 20, 2002 at 10:04:30PM -0800, Sean 'Shaleh' Perry wrote:
> >| On Wednesday 20 November 2002 21:06, Kent West wrote:
> >| > I'm just curious; do other folks (particularly real developers,
> >| > not
On 20/11/02 Kent West did speaketh:
> However, as I started to download the SDK from Sun's web site, it
> started bothering me more and more that Sun's license is such that it
> prevents Debian from including it as part of the distro. I'm not sure of
I'm confused. Isn't this what we have a
> -Original Message-
> From: Kent West [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2002 9:42 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: OT: Politics of Java
>
>
> Derrick 'dman' Hudson wrote:
>
> >On Wed, Nov 20, 2002 at 10:04:30P
At 2002-11-21T17:42:27Z, Kent West <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Shaleh was the one to plug python first. But what dman says here gets my
> attention. Do others concur that python is more cross-platform and more OO
> than java?
Both are available for pretty much every major platform. Python is
Kent West wrote:
> Shaleh was the one to plug python first. But what dman says here gets my
> attention. Do others concur that python is more cross-platform and more
> OO than java?
It probably is supported on more platforms, since it's open source. More
OO... hmm. Possibly. Of course, this ope
Derrick 'dman' Hudson wrote:
On Wed, Nov 20, 2002 at 10:04:30PM -0800, Sean 'Shaleh' Perry wrote:
| On Wednesday 20 November 2002 21:06, Kent West wrote:
| >
| > I'm just curious; do other folks (particularly real developers, not just
| > tinkerer-wanna-be's like myself) have a similar problem wi
> "Craig" == Craig Dickson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
Craig> Michael Kahle wrote:
>> Does the fact that they control the "standard" prohibit others from
>> implementing the language with other standards if they see fit?
>> Forking the project so to speak?
Craig> It's called C#. So yes, it is
On Wed, Nov 20, 2002 at 10:04:30PM -0800, Sean 'Shaleh' Perry wrote:
| On Wednesday 20 November 2002 21:06, Kent West wrote:
| >
| > I'm just curious; do other folks (particularly real developers, not just
| > tinkerer-wanna-be's like myself) have a similar problem with Java, or
| > have I just bee
On Wed, Nov 20, 2002 at 11:34:16PM -0600, Michael Kahle wrote:
> Is the standard, "controlled entirely by Sun"?
It's by the JCP.
Anyone may join the JCP; I don't think that Java is controlled mainly by
Sun.
> I'm not sure how mature this is, but if your interested in Java programming
> without t
On Thursday 21 November 2002 00:12, Ron Johnson wrote:
> On Thu, 2002-11-21 at 00:18, Kirk Strauser wrote:
> > At 2002-11-21T05:06:49Z, Kent West <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > > I'm just curious; do other folks (particularly real developers, not
> > > just tinkerer-wanna-be's like myself) have a
On Thu, 2002-11-21 at 00:18, Kirk Strauser wrote:
>
> At 2002-11-21T05:06:49Z, Kent West <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > I'm just curious; do other folks (particularly real developers, not just
> > tinkerer-wanna-be's like myself) have a similar problem with Java, or have
> > I just been channe
Michael Kahle wrote:
> Does the fact that they control the "standard" prohibit others from
> implementing the language with other standards if they see fit? Forking the
> project so to speak?
It's called C#. So yes, it is possible, but you can't call the resulting
language "Java" without Sun's p
On Wednesday 20 November 2002 22:05, Michael Kahle wrote:
> Interesting. I am going to have to do some reading on this.
>
> Does the fact that they control the "standard" prohibit others from
> implementing the language with other standards if they see fit? Forking
> the project so to speak?
>
I
Craig Dickson wrote:
>I know there are other compilers/tools for Java than Sun's, but that
>doesn't change the fact that the Java name is a Sun trademark and that
>Sun has never submitted the language to an independent standards body.
>Sun, all by themselves, defines what Java is and isn't.
>
>Crai
At 2002-11-21T05:06:49Z, Kent West <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> I'm just curious; do other folks (particularly real developers, not just
> tinkerer-wanna-be's like myself) have a similar problem with Java, or have
> I just been channeling too much RMS lately?
You're not alone. I've never felt
on Wed, 20 Nov 2002 10:04:30PM -0800, Sean 'Shaleh' Perry insinuated:
> On Wednesday 20 November 2002 21:06, Kent West wrote:
> > I'm just curious; do other folks (particularly real developers,
> > not just tinkerer-wanna-be's like myself) have a similar problem
> > with Java, or have I just been c
On Wednesday 20 November 2002 21:06, Kent West wrote:
>
> I'm just curious; do other folks (particularly real developers, not just
> tinkerer-wanna-be's like myself) have a similar problem with Java, or
> have I just been channeling too much RMS lately?
>
> Thanks for any comments.
>
> Kent
Many o
Michael Kahle wrote:
> Is the standard, "controlled entirely by Sun"?
>
> I'm not sure how mature this is, but if your interested in Java programming
> without the politics.
> http://gcc.gnu.org/java/
I know there are other compilers/tools for Java than Sun's, but that
doesn't change the fact th
-Original Message-
From: Craig Dickson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2002 11:21 PM
To: Debian User
Subject: Re: OT: Politics of Java
Craig Dickson wrote:
/* snip
>
>No, you haven't been smoking too much RMS. Java is not an open standard;
>it
Kent West writes:
> I'm just curious; do other folks (particularly real developers, not just
> tinkerer-wanna-be's like myself) have a similar problem with Java,...
Yes.
--
John Hasler
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, Wisconsin
--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with a
Kent West wrote:
> I picked up Dori Smith's "Java for the World Wide Web" book at the
> library the other day; thought I'd at least introduce myself to the
> basics of Java programming. I am not a programmer; just did the usual
> college class work in the basic languages (Pascal, Fortran, BASIC
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