On Tue, 2012-11-27 at 16:12 -0700, Robert Holtzman wrote:
> My apologies for screwing up the quote.
Never mind!
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On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 02:54:07AM +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
>
> It would be nice to correct the quotation. I didn't wrote this. I didn't
> reply to this thread any more and somebody else did wrote those words,
> but it's quoted in a way, that people might think I've written this.
>
> Wrong quot
On Tue, 2012-11-27 at 14:44 +1100, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
> Your intent is seen by those who can read. That is all that matters.
I don't worry that e.g. the Mossard will google and then kill me ;) or
the German prosecution and then they will sue me ;). But an employer
might google and then read
"
On 11/27/12, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> Take a look what mails are from me and what mails are from others and
> take care about the fact that I was silent, I only replied when it
> became to insane.
>
> Discredit, defamation, lies!
>
> In the archive it's easy to see what mails, what words are from me
On Tue, 2012-11-27 at 15:07 +1300, Chris Bannister wrote:
> On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 02:00:05PM +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> > On Mon, 2012-11-26 at 12:27 +, Tony van der Hoff
> > > It is alleged, that a certain German Fuerer added a smiley to the order
> > > to exterminate the Jews, to indicat
On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 05:58:08PM +0100, Titanus Eramius wrote:
>
> This is, after all, a specialised list, not a comedy central.
You are joking, aren't you?
--
"If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people
who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing
On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 02:00:05PM +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> On Mon, 2012-11-26 at 12:27 +, Tony van der Hoff
> > It is alleged, that a certain German Fuerer added a smiley to the order
> > to exterminate the Jews, to indicate it was a joke. It was misunderstood.
>
> I made a joke with the
On Mon, 2012-11-26 at 18:02 -0700, Robert Holtzman wrote:
> > >
> > > On 26/11/12 13:00, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> > >> On Mon, 2012-11-26 at 12:27 +, Tony van der Hoff
> > >>> It is alleged, that a certain German Fuerer added a smiley to the order
> > >>> to exterminate the Jews, to indicate it wa
> >
> > On 26/11/12 13:00, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> >> On Mon, 2012-11-26 at 12:27 +, Tony van der Hoff
> >>> It is alleged, that a certain German Fuerer added a smiley to the order
> >>> to exterminate the Jews, to indicate it was a joke. It was
> >>> misunderstood.
>
> > Arrogant Bastard!
> >
Hoff
>> To: Ralf Mardorf
>> Subject: Re: Outrageous Xenophobia. Was: Outrageous sexism. Was: Re:
>> Mail client, threads, etc...
>> Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2012 13:24:41 +
>>
>> On 26/11/12 13:00, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
>>> On Mon, 2012-11-26 at 12:27 +, To
> On Mon, 2012-11-26 at 16:45 +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
>
>
> I anyway received mail from the admin.
Is it possible that we read it? It could be convenient to know what is
happening with Debian's view point.
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with a subject of "
> Forwarded Message
> From: Tony van der Hoff
> To: Ralf Mardorf
> Subject: Re: Outrageous Xenophobia. Was: Outrageous sexism. Was: Re:
> Mail client, threads, etc...
> Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2012 13:24:41 +
>
> On 26/11/12 13:00, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
>
On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 1:06 PM, Veljko wrote:
> [cut] And people should forgive
> each other, especially when they apologize. So shall we forgive each
> others and just move on? For crying out loud... Just drop it...
>
>
> Veljko
Seconded!
There is no such thing as universal joke. We always wi
My point is clear now, I think jokes here is a bad idea because of
the
problems they can give, but I understand if others disagrees. One can
always use a good laugh, and I am always searching for new jokes :-)
(I just think they will give more grief than laughs here)
- Titanus
Even jokes on
On Mon, 26 Nov 2012 16:45:52 +0100
Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> On Mon, 2012-11-26 at 16:28 +0100, Titanus Eramius wrote:
> > On Mon, 26 Nov 2012 15:28:04 +0100
> > Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > > IMO nothing can be bad with a joke about men, women, Germans, Jews
> > > etc., it becomes bad if
On Mon, 2012-11-26 at 16:45 +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> On Mon, 2012-11-26 at 16:28 +0100, Titanus Eramius wrote:
> > On Mon, 26 Nov 2012 15:28:04 +0100
> > Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > > IMO nothing can be bad with a joke about men, women, Germans, Jews
> > > etc., it becomes bad if pe
On Mon, 2012-11-26 at 16:28 +0100, Titanus Eramius wrote:
> On Mon, 26 Nov 2012 15:28:04 +0100
> Ralf Mardorf wrote:
>
>
>
> > IMO nothing can be bad with a joke about men, women, Germans, Jews
> > etc., it becomes bad if people have got bad intentions. Tony has got
> > a bad intention or he's
On Mon, 2012-11-26 at 16:28 +0100, Titanus Eramius wrote:
> On Mon, 26 Nov 2012 15:28:04 +0100
> Ralf Mardorf wrote:
>
>
>
> > IMO nothing can be bad with a joke about men, women, Germans, Jews
> > etc., it becomes bad if people have got bad intentions. Tony has got
> > a bad intention or he's
On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 03:28:04PM +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> IMO nothing can be bad with a joke about men, women, Germans, Jews etc.,
> it becomes bad if people have got bad intentions.
I just couldn't agree more. I refuse to accept that people on this list
are malicious. People are helping oth
On Mon, 26 Nov 2012 15:28:04 +0100
Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> IMO nothing can be bad with a joke about men, women, Germans, Jews
> etc., it becomes bad if people have got bad intentions. Tony has got
> a bad intention or he's serious sick and not aware about the
> difference of the order to kill peo
On Mon, 2012-11-26 at 14:45 +, Brad Rogers wrote:
> On Mon, 26 Nov 2012 14:53:18 +0100
> Ralf Mardorf wrote:
>
> Hello Ralf,
>
> >This isn't a joke, since I'm from Germany and a lot of people really
> >were killed by Nazis.
>
> And there we have it; You don't find this funny. Many people
On Mon, 2012-11-26 at 14:45 +, Brad Rogers wrote:
> On Mon, 26 Nov 2012 14:53:18 +0100
> Ralf Mardorf wrote:
>
> Hello Ralf,
>
> >This isn't a joke, since I'm from Germany and a lot of people really
> >were killed by Nazis.
>
> And there we have it; You don't find this funny. Many people
On Mon, 2012-11-26 at 15:44 +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> On Mon, 2012-11-26 at 15:31 +0100, darkestkhan wrote:
Tony wrote, not darkestkhan (not my mistake, the DE and MUA are broken),
pardon
> > >> >> It is alleged, that a certain German Fuerer added a smiley to the
> > >> >> order
> > >> >> t
On Mon, 2012-11-26 at 15:31 +0100, darkestkhan wrote:
> >> >> It is alleged, that a certain German Fuerer added a smiley to the order
> >> >> to exterminate the Jews, to indicate it was a joke. It was
> >> >> misunderstood.
On Thu, 2012-11-22 at 11:36 +, Tony van der Hoff wrote:
Your joke was
On Mon, 26 Nov 2012 14:53:18 +0100
Ralf Mardorf wrote:
Hello Ralf,
>This isn't a joke, since I'm from Germany and a lot of people really
>were killed by Nazis.
And there we have it; You don't find this funny. Many people didn't
find your comment about women funny.
You lose. Get over it. Mo
On Mon, 2012-11-26 at 14:44 +0100, berenger.mo...@neutralite.org wrote:
>
> Le 26.11.2012 14:34, Zenaan Harkness a écrit :
> > On 11/27/12, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> >> On Mon, 2012-11-26 at 12:27 +, Tony van der Hoff
> >>> It is alleged, that a certain German Fuerer added a smiley to the
> >>>
On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 2:53 PM, Ralf Mardorf
wrote:
> On Tue, 2012-11-27 at 00:34 +1100, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
>> On 11/27/12, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
>> > On Mon, 2012-11-26 at 12:27 +, Tony van der Hoff
>> >> It is alleged, that a certain German Fuerer added a smiley to the order
>> >> to ext
On Tue, 2012-11-27 at 00:34 +1100, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
> On 11/27/12, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> > On Mon, 2012-11-26 at 12:27 +, Tony van der Hoff
> >> It is alleged, that a certain German Fuerer added a smiley to the order
> >> to exterminate the Jews, to indicate it was a joke. It was misunde
It's not marked as [off-list], but by accident send off-list.
I've got enough from this list.
Forwarded Message
From: Tony van der Hoff
To: Ralf Mardorf
Subject: Re: Outrageous Xenophobia. Was: Outrageous sexism. Was: Re:
Mail client, threads, etc...
Date: Mon, 26 N
Le 26.11.2012 14:34, Zenaan Harkness a écrit :
On 11/27/12, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
On Mon, 2012-11-26 at 12:27 +, Tony van der Hoff
It is alleged, that a certain German Fuerer added a smiley to the
order
to exterminate the Jews, to indicate it was a joke. It was
misunderstood.
I made a j
On 11/27/12, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> On Mon, 2012-11-26 at 12:27 +, Tony van der Hoff
>> It is alleged, that a certain German Fuerer added a smiley to the order
>> to exterminate the Jews, to indicate it was a joke. It was misunderstood.
>
> I made a joke with the contend
>
> "Men tend to make m
On Mon, 2012-11-26 at 12:27 +, Tony van der Hoff
> It is alleged, that a certain German Fuerer added a smiley to the order
> to exterminate the Jews, to indicate it was a joke. It was misunderstood.
I made a joke with the contend
"Men tend to make mistakes, when they are in love with a women
On 26/11/12 11:45, berenger.mo...@neutralite.org wrote:
>
>
> Le 26.11.2012 01:56, Zenaan Harkness a écrit :
>> On 11/26/12, Neal Murphy wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, November 21, 2012 12:54:33 PM Ralf Mardorf wrote:
... My humour is less good than Chaplin's ...
>>>
>>> OK. Pointed, direct humor
Le 26.11.2012 01:56, Zenaan Harkness a écrit :
On 11/26/12, Neal Murphy wrote:
On Wednesday, November 21, 2012 12:54:33 PM Ralf Mardorf wrote:
... My humour is less good than Chaplin's ...
OK. Pointed, direct humor back at you. What was the shortest book
ever
published? "One Thousand Year
On 11/26/12, Neal Murphy wrote:
> On Wednesday, November 21, 2012 12:54:33 PM Ralf Mardorf wrote:
>> ... My humour is less good than Chaplin's ...
>
> OK. Pointed, direct humor back at you. What was the shortest book ever
> published? "One Thousand Years of German Humor", which consisted of the
>
On Wednesday, November 21, 2012 12:54:33 PM Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> ... My humour is less good than Chaplin's ...
OK. Pointed, direct humor back at you. What was the shortest book ever
published? "One Thousand Years of German Humor", which consisted of the
frontispiece, the preface, and the introd
On Mi, 21 nov 12, 14:40:58, Miles Fidelman wrote:
>
> Obviously, Debian is working so well, for everybody, that we need
> something to keep the list from becoming dead air :-)
It happens during the freeze.
Kind regards,
Andrei
--
Offtopic discussions among Debian users and developers:
http://li
Le 22.11.2012 22:07, Beco a écrit :
On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 7:28 PM, François TOURDE
wrote:
Le 15665ième jour après Epoch,
Lisi Reisz écrivait:
On Wednesday 21 November 2012 16:55:22 Beco wrote:
Use of smiley face should point this was just a joke. As we can
see in
this first use in 1982:
On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 7:28 PM, François TOURDE wrote:
> Le 15665ième jour après Epoch,
> Lisi Reisz écrivait:
>
>> On Wednesday 21 November 2012 16:55:22 Beco wrote:
>>> Use of smiley face should point this was just a joke. As we can see in
>>> this first use in 1982:
>>
>> That is what is so ve
On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 05:41:08PM +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> Apologize!
As a point of reference, I think the word you were looking for there was
"apologies", as in "Please accept my apologies".
Cheers,
Tom
--
The hater of property and of government takes care to have his warranty
deed recor
Le Mer 21 novembre 2012 19:12, Brad Rogers a écrit :
> On Wed, 21 Nov 2012 18:41:08 +0100
> Ralf Mardorf wrote:
>
>
> Hello Ralf,
>
>
>> I'm not sure, if it's really just the language barrier. Coarse humour
>>
>
> I picked up your intent, but clearly others didn't. At least one other
> person inv
On Thu, 22 Nov 2012 00:11:08 +0100
Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> On Wed, 2012-11-21 at 23:28 +0100, François TOURDE wrote:
> > Le 15665ième jour après Epoch,
> > Lisi Reisz écrivait:
> >
> > > On Wednesday 21 November 2012 16:55:22 Beco wrote:
> > >> Use of smiley face should point this was just a joke.
On Wed, 2012-11-21 at 23:28 +0100, François TOURDE wrote:
> Le 15665ième jour après Epoch,
> Lisi Reisz écrivait:
>
> > On Wednesday 21 November 2012 16:55:22 Beco wrote:
> >> Use of smiley face should point this was just a joke. As we can see in
> >> this first use in 1982:
> >
> > That is what i
Le 15665ième jour après Epoch,
Ralf Mardorf écrivait:
> On Wed, 2012-11-21 at 10:28 -0800, Don Armstrong wrote:
>> > On Wed, 21 Nov 2012 14:10:11 +0100
>> > fra...@tourde.org (François TOURDE) wrote:
>> >
>> > > - Errare humanum est, but to make a big mistake, you need a
>> > > computer ;)
>> >
Le 15665ième jour après Epoch,
Lisi Reisz écrivait:
> On Wednesday 21 November 2012 16:55:22 Beco wrote:
>> Use of smiley face should point this was just a joke. As we can see in
>> this first use in 1982:
>
> That is what is so very offensive. He thinks that being so rude about just
> over half
Florian Snow wrote:
Ok, I understand that you were offended by Ralf's original "joke", but
is it really necessary to make an already heated debate worse by
making statements like yours? Ralf already explained that he actually
meant to apologize and didn't ask for an apology and others already
Lisi Reisz :
On Wednesday 21 November 2012 17:13:18 Brad Rogers wrote:
"Apologize!" means you're demanding an apology from someone else.
He probably is!
Ok, I understand that you were offended by Ralf's original "joke", but
is it really necessary to make an already heated debate worse by ma
On Wed, 2012-11-21 at 16:00 -0300, Beco wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 2:46 PM, Lisi Reisz wrote:
> > On Wednesday 21 November 2012 16:55:22 Beco wrote:
> >> Use of smiley face should point this was just a joke. As we can see in
> >> this first use in 1982:
> >
> > That is what is so very offens
On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 2:46 PM, Lisi Reisz wrote:
> On Wednesday 21 November 2012 16:55:22 Beco wrote:
>> Use of smiley face should point this was just a joke. As we can see in
>> this first use in 1982:
>
> That is what is so very offensive. He thinks that being so rude about just
> over half o
On Wed, 2012-11-21 at 18:12 +, Brad Rogers wrote:
> On Wed, 21 Nov 2012 18:41:08 +0100
> Ralf Mardorf wrote:
>
> Hello Ralf,
>
> >I'm not sure, if it's really just the language barrier. Coarse humour
>
> I picked up your intent, but clearly others didn't. At least one other
> person involv
On Wed, 2012-11-21 at 19:45 +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> On Wed, 2012-11-21 at 10:28 -0800, Don Armstrong wrote:
> > > On Wed, 21 Nov 2012 14:10:11 +0100
> > > fra...@tourde.org (François TOURDE) wrote:
> > >
> > > > - Errare humanum est, but to make a big mistake, you need a
> > > > computer ;)
>
On Wed, 2012-11-21 at 10:28 -0800, Don Armstrong wrote:
> > On Wed, 21 Nov 2012 14:10:11 +0100
> > fra...@tourde.org (François TOURDE) wrote:
> >
> > > - Errare humanum est, but to make a big mistake, you need a
> > > computer ;)
> >
> > Or a woman. I hope this isn't too sexist.
>
> Sending mess
On Wed, 21 Nov 2012 18:41:08 +0100
Ralf Mardorf wrote:
Hello Ralf,
>I'm not sure, if it's really just the language barrier. Coarse humour
I picked up your intent, but clearly others didn't. At least one other
person involved in this rigmarole is not a native English speaker. As
such, it's ess
On Wed, 2012-11-21 at 17:46 +, Lisi Reisz wrote:
> On Wednesday 21 November 2012 16:55:22 Beco wrote:
> > Use of smiley face should point this was just a joke. As we can see in
> > this first use in 1982:
>
> That is what is so very offensive. He thinks that being so rude about just
> over h
On Wednesday 21 November 2012 17:13:18 Brad Rogers wrote:
> >Since I'm kill-filed you can't read it any more. Apologize! But I
>
> You should say either "I apologise" or "My apologies".
>
> "Apologize!" means you're demanding an apology from someone else.
He probably is!
Lisi
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On Wednesday 21 November 2012 16:55:22 Beco wrote:
> Use of smiley face should point this was just a joke. As we can see in
> this first use in 1982:
That is what is so very offensive. He thinks that being so rude about just
over half of the population is _funny_. As apparently do you.
Lisi
-
On Wed, 2012-11-21 at 17:13 +, Brad Rogers wrote:
> On Wed, 21 Nov 2012 17:47:20 +0100
> Ralf Mardorf wrote:
>
> Hello Ralf,
>
> >Since I'm kill-filed you can't read it any more. Apologize! But I
>
> You should say either "I apologise" or "My apologies".
>
> "Apologize!" means you're deman
On Wed, 2012-11-21 at 18:04 +0100, Jochen Spieker wrote:
> Darac Marjal:
> > On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 05:41:08PM +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> >> On Wed, 2012-11-21 at 16:00 +, Darac Marjal wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Actually, that is quite sexist. In fact, it's plain and simply sexist
> >>> which is in
On Wed, 21 Nov 2012 17:47:20 +0100
Ralf Mardorf wrote:
Hello Ralf,
>Since I'm kill-filed you can't read it any more. Apologize! But I
You should say either "I apologise" or "My apologies".
"Apologize!" means you're demanding an apology from someone else.
--
Regards _
/ )
Darac Marjal:
> On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 05:41:08PM +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
>> On Wed, 2012-11-21 at 16:00 +, Darac Marjal wrote:
>>>
>>> Actually, that is quite sexist. In fact, it's plain and simply sexist
>>> which is inappropriate in this community.
>>
>> Apologize!
>
> I most certainl
On Wed, 2012-11-21 at 16:43 +, Darac Marjal wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 05:41:08PM +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> > On Wed, 2012-11-21 at 16:00 +, Darac Marjal wrote:
> > > On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 04:51:24PM +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> > > > On Wed, 21 Nov 2012 14:10:11 +0100
> > > > fr
On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 1:47 PM, Ralf Mardorf
wrote:
> On Wed, 2012-11-21 at 16:34 +, Lisi Reisz wrote:
>> On Wednesday 21 November 2012 15:51:24 Ralf Mardorf wrote:
>> > Or a woman. I hope this isn't too sexist.
>>
>> It is, extremely. My husband says do you not think a woman is humanum as
>
Lisi Reisz:
> On Wednesday 21 November 2012 15:51:24 Ralf Mardorf wrote:
>> Or a woman. I hope this isn't too sexist.
>
> It is, extremely. My husband says do you not think a woman is humanum as
> well?
I think you got Ralf wrong. He did not want to express that women are
not human but "to make
On Wednesday 21 November 2012 16:43:33 Darac Marjal wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 05:41:08PM +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> > On Wed, 2012-11-21 at 16:00 +, Darac Marjal wrote:
> > > On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 04:51:24PM +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> > > > On Wed, 21 Nov 2012 14:10:11 +0100
> > >
On Wed, 2012-11-21 at 16:34 +, Lisi Reisz wrote:
> On Wednesday 21 November 2012 15:51:24 Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> > Or a woman. I hope this isn't too sexist.
>
> It is, extremely. My husband says do you not think a woman is humanum as
> well?
>
> I'm going to protect myself from you by kill-f
On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 05:41:08PM +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> On Wed, 2012-11-21 at 16:00 +, Darac Marjal wrote:
> > On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 04:51:24PM +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> > > On Wed, 21 Nov 2012 14:10:11 +0100
> > > fra...@tourde.org (François TOURDE) wrote:
> > >
> > > > - Errare
On Wed, 2012-11-21 at 16:00 +, Darac Marjal wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 04:51:24PM +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> > On Wed, 21 Nov 2012 14:10:11 +0100
> > fra...@tourde.org (François TOURDE) wrote:
> >
> > > - Errare humanum est, but to make a big mistake, you need a
> > > computer ;)
> >
On Wednesday 21 November 2012 15:51:24 Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> Or a woman. I hope this isn't too sexist.
It is, extremely. My husband says do you not think a woman is humanum as
well?
I'm going to protect myself from you by kill-filing you. You are utterly,
utterly beyond the pale.
Lisi
--
On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 04:51:24PM +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> On Wed, 21 Nov 2012 14:10:11 +0100
> fra...@tourde.org (François TOURDE) wrote:
>
> > - Errare humanum est, but to make a big mistake, you need a
> > computer ;)
>
> :D
>
> Or a woman. I hope this isn't too sexist.
Actually, that i
On Wed, 21 Nov 2012 14:10:11 +0100
fra...@tourde.org (François TOURDE) wrote:
> - Errare humanum est, but to make a big mistake, you need a
> computer ;)
:D
Or a woman. I hope this isn't too sexist.
Regards,
Ralf
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with a subject
Le 15665ième jour après Epoch,
Ralf Mardorf écrivait:
> François, a good idea to open a new subject, but keeping the id.
And Gnus, on reply on this kind of subjects, ask me if I want to remove
the [Was: ] ...
> We should be aware that newbies never ever will use (e)lisp to set up
> preferences f
François, a good idea to open a new subject, but keeping the id. Others
might think, this is bad too. I say, use a client that enables to
select, as you want the selection, even if people "use" the id in
different ways.
> But it has powerfull possibilities, and is customisable using Lisp.
>
> May
On Wednesday 21 November 2012 11:10:46 François TOURDE wrote:
> X-Mailer: Evolution 3.6.0-0ubuntu3
>
> As marked on his message.
Do'h. :-(
Lisi
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Archive:
Le 15665ième jour après Epoch,
Lisi Reisz écrivait:
> On Wednesday 21 November 2012 10:39:46 François TOURDE wrote:
[...]
>>
>> Lisi, consider change or upgrade your client ;)
>
> Obviously!! This is the first time, to my knowledge, that it has let me
> down,
> but one could say once is too oft
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