On Mon 03 Jun 2019 at 21:07:51 (-0700), Patrick Bartek wrote:
> Unfortuanately, as all those ancillary components are not
> independent but interrelated, you're going to get unexpected
> systemd "gotchas" just as I did with wicd. I solved it by picking
> another wifi manager which really has no r
On Sun 02 Jun 2019 at 22:23:25 (-0700), Patrick Bartek wrote:
> On Sun, 2 Jun 2019 00:29:30 -0500 David Wright
> wrote:
> > On Wed 29 May 2019 at 11:01:58 (-0700), Patrick Bartek wrote:
> >
> > > Is Debian slowly becoming systemd proprietary? It would be a great
> > > loss to Linux and its phil
On Mon, 3 Jun 2019 04:21:18 -0400
Kenneth Parker wrote:
> I wish to add one thing to this Discussion. Mention was made, more than
> once, that wicd "might" require Systemd.
It's not wicd that has the systemd dependency, it's one or a few
wicd Recommends that do. Block those from installing and
On Mon, 3 Jun 2019 09:43:36 +0200
didier gaumet wrote:
> Le 03/06/2019 à 07:23, Patrick Bartek a écrit :
> [...]
> > The install includes lots of choices [...] So, why not
> > init?
>
> I think a Debian maintainer had answered in the past something like
> while not using systemd himself, he ad
On Mon, Jun 03, 2019 at 10:17:00AM -0400, Dan Ritter wrote:
> Greg Wooledge wrote:
[...]
> > Now, open your eyes. The real goal of these zealots [...]
> Thanks for announcing that people who care what init system they
> are running are zealots [...]
Folks. Can we just get along?
To the one s
Greg Wooledge wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 03, 2019 at 09:11:37AM -0400, Dan Ritter wrote:
> > Greg Wooledge wrote:
> > > Almost nobody cares about init systems.
> > >
> > > Yes, you and your 3 friends care DEEPLY and PASSIONATELY about this. I
> > > get that. But there's only 4 of you, not 4000.
> >
On Mon, Jun 03, 2019 at 09:11:37AM -0400, Dan Ritter wrote:
> Greg Wooledge wrote:
> > Almost nobody cares about init systems.
> >
> > Yes, you and your 3 friends care DEEPLY and PASSIONATELY about this. I
> > get that. But there's only 4 of you, not 4000.
>
> Greg --
>
> is that the sort of
Greg Wooledge wrote:
> On Sun, Jun 02, 2019 at 10:23:25PM -0700, Patrick Bartek wrote:
> > The install includes lots of choices like print server, server or
> > desktop system, GUI, laptop utilities, etc. that are "bloat-worthy" and
> > can be installed after the main install has completed. I kno
On Sun, Jun 02, 2019 at 10:23:25PM -0700, Patrick Bartek wrote:
> The install includes lots of choices like print server, server or
> desktop system, GUI, laptop utilities, etc. that are "bloat-worthy" and
> can be installed after the main install has completed. I know. I used
> to do it back in
didier gaumet wrote:
> Le 03/06/2019 à 07:23, Patrick Bartek a écrit :
> [...]
> > The install includes lots of choices [...] So, why not
> > init?
>
> I think a Debian maintainer had answered in the past something like
> while not using systemd himself, he admitted the perceived percentage of
>
I wish to add one thing to this Discussion. Mention was made, more than
once, that wicd "might" require Systemd.
Besides using Debian Stretch on one system (where I am happily learning
Systemd), I use Devuan Ascii (on an older machine with limited ram).
This is "official notification" that wicd
Le 03/06/2019 à 07:23, Patrick Bartek a écrit :
[...]
> The install includes lots of choices [...] So, why not
> init?
I think a Debian maintainer had answered in the past something like
while not using systemd himself, he admitted the perceived percentage of
Debian anti-systemd users was not so i
On Sun, 2 Jun 2019 00:09:21 -0500
David Wright wrote:
> On Sat 01 Jun 2019 at 20:53:47 (-0700), Patrick Bartek wrote:
> > On Sat, 1 Jun 2019 14:39:41 +0200 Vincent Lefevre
> > wrote:
> > > On 2019-05-29 12:01:44 -0700, Patrick Bartek wrote:
> > > > On Wed, 29 May 2019 17:43:49 +0200 Vincent
On Sun, 2 Jun 2019 00:29:30 -0500
David Wright wrote:
> On Wed 29 May 2019 at 11:01:58 (-0700), Patrick Bartek wrote:
>
> > Is Debian slowly becoming systemd proprietary? It would be a great
> > loss to Linux and its philosophy if true. But that looks to be the
> > direction Debian is headed.
On Wed 29 May 2019 at 11:01:58 (-0700), Patrick Bartek wrote:
> Is Debian slowly becoming systemd proprietary? It would be a great
> loss to Linux and its philosophy if true. But that looks to be the
> direction Debian is headed.
>
> Once I suggested on this list when systemd first debuted with
On Sat 01 Jun 2019 at 20:53:47 (-0700), Patrick Bartek wrote:
> On Sat, 1 Jun 2019 14:39:41 +0200 Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> > On 2019-05-29 12:01:44 -0700, Patrick Bartek wrote:
> > > On Wed, 29 May 2019 17:43:49 +0200 Vincent Lefevre
> > > wrote:
> > > > He shouldn't. I've a machine that is st
On Sat, 1 Jun 2019 14:39:41 +0200
Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> On 2019-05-29 12:01:44 -0700, Patrick Bartek wrote:
> > On Wed, 29 May 2019 17:43:49 +0200
> > Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> > > He shouldn't. I've a machine that is still under sysvinit, and
> > > I can install wicd without any dependency
On Sat, 1 Jun 2019 14:30:38 +0200
Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> On 2019-05-29 20:47:06 +0300, Reco wrote:
> > Hi.
> >
> > On Wed, May 29, 2019 at 05:39:05PM +0200, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> > > On 2019-05-28 11:18:39 -0700, Patrick Bartek wrote:
> > > > On Tue, 28 May 2019 20:39:53 +0300
> > >
On 2019-05-29 20:47:06 +0300, Reco wrote:
> Hi.
>
> On Wed, May 29, 2019 at 05:39:05PM +0200, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> > On 2019-05-28 11:18:39 -0700, Patrick Bartek wrote:
> > > On Tue, 28 May 2019 20:39:53 +0300
> > > Reco wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Tue, May 28, 2019 at 09:49:45AM -0700, Pa
On 2019-05-29 12:01:44 -0700, Patrick Bartek wrote:
> On Wed, 29 May 2019 17:43:49 +0200
> Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> > He shouldn't. I've a machine that is still under sysvinit, and
> > I can install wicd without any dependency issue.
>
> What version OS you running? Fully up-to-date? GNOME? Or so
On 2019-05-29, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> On 2019-05-28 22:16:27 +0100, Liam O'Toole wrote:
>> On 2019-05-27, Patrick Bartek wrote:
>> > Hi, all!
>> >
>> > Needing to convert this box from wired ethernet to wireless, I searched
>> > for a suitable network manager and wicd looked good: No desktop
>
On Wed, 29 May 2019 17:43:49 +0200
Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> On 2019-05-28 22:16:27 +0100, Liam O'Toole wrote:
> > On 2019-05-27, Patrick Bartek wrote:
> > > Hi, all!
> > >
> > > Needing to convert this box from wired ethernet to wireless, I searched
> > > for a suitable network manager and wic
On Tue, 28 May 2019 12:28:49 -0400 (EDT)
bw wrote:
> In-Reply-To: <20190528071022.45725f73@debian9>
>
> ah... sorry, here's the culprit, hard depend on systemd
>
> dbus-user-session
>
It doesn't even have to be hard. Any association no matter how soft
or distant an app has with GNOME or any
Hi.
On Wed, May 29, 2019 at 05:39:05PM +0200, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> On 2019-05-28 11:18:39 -0700, Patrick Bartek wrote:
> > On Tue, 28 May 2019 20:39:53 +0300
> > Reco wrote:
> >
> > > On Tue, May 28, 2019 at 09:49:45AM -0700, Patrick Bartek wrote:
> > > > On Tue, 28 May 2019 18:56:44
On 2019-05-28 11:18:39 -0700, Patrick Bartek wrote:
> On Tue, 28 May 2019 20:39:53 +0300
> Reco wrote:
>
> > On Tue, May 28, 2019 at 09:49:45AM -0700, Patrick Bartek wrote:
> > > On Tue, 28 May 2019 18:56:44 +0300
> > > Reco wrote:
> > > apt/apt-get already by default set NOT to install Recommen
On 2019-05-28 22:16:27 +0100, Liam O'Toole wrote:
> On 2019-05-27, Patrick Bartek wrote:
> > Hi, all!
> >
> > Needing to convert this box from wired ethernet to wireless, I searched
> > for a suitable network manager and wicd looked good: No desktop
> > environment dependencies (I use a window ma
On Tue, May 28, 2019 at 06:03:39PM -0400, bw wrote:
> In-Reply-To: <20190528202437.ro7qososkbvmd...@randomstring.org>
>
> >bw wrote:
[ Dan Ritter ]
> >Debian is not supposed to be a highly opinionated distribution, unless
> >the opinion is "there should be lots of options". Claiming that "once
Hello,
On Tue, May 28, 2019 at 10:16:27PM +0100, Liam O'Toole wrote:
> On 2019-05-27, Patrick Bartek wrote:
> > Needing to convert this box from wired ethernet to wireless, I searched
> > for a suitable network manager and wicd looked good: No desktop
> > environment dependencies (I use a window
On 2019-05-27, Patrick Bartek wrote:
> Hi, all!
>
> Needing to convert this box from wired ethernet to wireless, I searched
> for a suitable network manager and wicd looked good: No desktop
> environment dependencies (I use a window manager Openbox and single
> lxpanel), compatibility with Openbo
bw wrote:
> In-Reply-To: <20190528110506.12328afe@debian9>
>
> Patrick Bartek
> ...
> >> It's a good topic, if you think this is a bug, please report it.
> >
> >I don't think it's a bug. Just a dependency issue caused by the way
> >systemd is designed.
>
> I hear what you are saying, and it al
On Tue, 28 May 2019 20:39:53 +0300
Reco wrote:
> On Tue, May 28, 2019 at 09:49:45AM -0700, Patrick Bartek wrote:
> > On Tue, 28 May 2019 18:56:44 +0300
> > Reco wrote:
> >
> > > Hi.
> > >
> > > On Tue, May 28, 2019 at 07:10:22AM -0700, Patrick Bartek wrote:
> > > > On Mon, 27 May 2019 21
On Tue, 28 May 2019 12:19:22 -0400 (EDT)
bw wrote:
> In-Reply-To: <20190528071022.45725f73@debian9>
>
>
> Patrick Bartek
> >On Mon, 27 May 2019 21:00:36 -0400 (EDT)
> >bw wrote:
> >
> >> In-Reply-To: <[] 20190527163821.6e4b5d95@debian9>
> >>
> >> ...
> >> >Based on my past experience
On Tue, May 28, 2019 at 09:49:45AM -0700, Patrick Bartek wrote:
> On Tue, 28 May 2019 18:56:44 +0300
> Reco wrote:
>
> > Hi.
> >
> > On Tue, May 28, 2019 at 07:10:22AM -0700, Patrick Bartek wrote:
> > > On Mon, 27 May 2019 21:00:36 -0400 (EDT)
> > > bw wrote:
> > >
> > > > In-Reply-To: <
On Tue, 28 May 2019 18:56:44 +0300
Reco wrote:
> Hi.
>
> On Tue, May 28, 2019 at 07:10:22AM -0700, Patrick Bartek wrote:
> > On Mon, 27 May 2019 21:00:36 -0400 (EDT)
> > bw wrote:
> >
> > > In-Reply-To: <20190527163821.6e4b5d95@debian9>
> > >
> > > ...
> > > >Based on my past experi
Hi.
On Tue, May 28, 2019 at 07:10:22AM -0700, Patrick Bartek wrote:
> On Mon, 27 May 2019 21:00:36 -0400 (EDT)
> bw wrote:
>
> > In-Reply-To: <20190527163821.6e4b5d95@debian9>
> >
> > ...
> > >Based on my past experiences and research with systemd, I now
> > >always have do simulated in
On Mon, 27 May 2019 21:00:36 -0400 (EDT)
bw wrote:
> In-Reply-To: <20190527163821.6e4b5d95@debian9>
>
> ...
> >Based on my past experiences and research with systemd, I now
> >always have do simulated installs with everything just to be sure
> >nothing untoward happens. The Subject Title was ap
Quoting arne (2019-05-28 04:37:46)
> On Mon, 27 May 2019 09:29:46 +0200
> Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
>
> > Quoting Patrick Bartek (2019-05-27 03:49:06)
> > > Needing to convert this box from wired ethernet to wireless, I
> > > searched for a suitable network manager and wicd looked good: No
> > >
On Mon, 27 May 2019, bw wrote:
In-Reply-To: <131c2112-376a-5c46-0d00-7f643168e...@cloud85.net>
Here's further argument that computer programs are not capable of being
insidious. Using the word this way is IMO incorrect, but then most of the
world is stuck in misuse of language.
diseases can
On Mon, 27 May 2019 09:29:46 +0200
Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
> Quoting Patrick Bartek (2019-05-27 03:49:06)
> > Needing to convert this box from wired ethernet to wireless, I
> > searched for a suitable network manager and wicd looked good: No
> > desktop environment dependencies (I use a window
On Mon, 27 May 2019 13:00:37 -0400 (EDT)
bw wrote:
> In-Reply-To: <20190527090258.213ecf5a@debian9>
>
> >From: Patrick Bartek
> >My post WAS initially a report of anamolous behavior during
> >an install. I had read of other systemd quirks. (If no one knows, how
> >can it be fixed?) The last
On Mon, 27 May 2019 20:25:11 +0200
deloptes wrote:
> Patrick Bartek wrote:
>
> >> You could switch to Devuan - it's like a Debian but without this
> >> SystemD crap of 1.2 million code lines.
> >> https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Systemd-1.2-Million
> >
> > I am aware of De
Patrick Bartek wrote:
>> You could switch to Devuan - it's like a Debian but without this
>> SystemD crap of 1.2 million code lines.
>> https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Systemd-1.2-Million
>
> I am aware of Devuan, but at the time I installed Stretch (about a
> year ago after l
On Mon, 27 May 2019 09:29:46 +0200
Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
> Quoting Patrick Bartek (2019-05-27 03:49:06)
> > Needing to convert this box from wired ethernet to wireless, I
> > searched for a suitable network manager and wicd looked good: No
> > desktop environment dependencies (I use a window
On Mon, 27 May 2019 09:58:50 +0300
Ivan Ivanov wrote:
> You could switch to Devuan - it's like a Debian but without this
> SystemD crap of 1.2 million code lines.
> https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Systemd-1.2-Million
I am aware of Devuan, but at the time I installed Stretch (
On 05/26/2019 10:05 PM, bw wrote:
[snip]
It might be a bug if wicd requires systemd as init? but I have not
researched the issue. I think it's a lot of work for little gain
to fight the way things are. Systemd is here, it has been working fine
for yrs. It is the default init for debian. I rea
Quoting Patrick Bartek (2019-05-27 03:49:06)
> Needing to convert this box from wired ethernet to wireless, I
> searched for a suitable network manager and wicd looked good: No
> desktop environment dependencies (I use a window manager Openbox and
> single lxpanel), compatibility with Openbox, e
Hi, all!
Needing to convert this box from wired ethernet to wireless, I searched
for a suitable network manager and wicd looked good: No desktop
environment dependencies (I use a window manager Openbox and single
lxpanel), compatibility with Openbox, etc. Imagine my surprise when
during the simu
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