Am 2007-05-31 08:57:43, schrieb Douglas Allan Tutty:
> Instead of focusing on having more and more packages, we should be
> focusing on the quality of what we've already got. Such quality would
> include quality docs. Documentation seems to be the bane of many/most
> free/open software distros.
On 2007-06-04 19:57:00 +0200, joe wrote:
> If there is no Debian version of the package you are interested in
> installing, then it would be wise to either switch to using Ubuntu,
> or you should ask the developers to create Debian packages, or
> contacting a DD for information on creating your own
On 06/04/07 12:57, joe wrote:
On Monday 04 June 2007 19:01:10 Romain Francoise wrote:
Vincent Lefevre <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
Is there a way to use the Ubuntu packages from Debian with
apt-get?
Try adding Ubuntu sources in your sources.list and see what
happens... but I don't think it'll w
Hi again,
cothrige <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Does that then mean that the Ubuntu Emacs does include the docs
> that Debian removes?
It's a bit more complicated than that because there are several
Emacs package suites in Debian:
- Emacs 21 is packaged in Debian as two source packages, emacs
On Monday 04 June 2007 19:01:10 Romain Francoise wrote:
> Vincent Lefevre <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > Is there a way to use the Ubuntu packages from Debian with
> > apt-get?
>
> Try adding Ubuntu sources in your sources.list and see what
> happens... but I don't think it'll work.
>
> --
> ,''
Vincent Lefevre <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Is there a way to use the Ubuntu packages from Debian with
> apt-get?
Try adding Ubuntu sources in your sources.list and see what
happens... but I don't think it'll work.
--
,''`.
: :' :Romain Francoise <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
`. `'
Joey Hess <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Is there some reason why you're not maintaining the package in Debian,
> given that you're a DD and it currently has no maintainer?
http://lists.debian.org/debian-emacsen/2007/03/msg00012.html
http://lists.debian.org/debian-emacsen/2007/04/msg2.html
--
* Romain Francoise ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
>
> It's very simple: Debian is no longer upstream for emacs-snapshot in
> Ubuntu, the packages are taken from my personal repository.
>
> See https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/emacs-snapshot/1:20070529-1
>
Thanks for that info. Does that then m
Romain Francoise wrote:
> It's very simple: Debian is no longer upstream for emacs-snapshot in
> Ubuntu, the packages are taken from my personal repository.
Is there some reason why you're not maintaining the package in Debian,
given that you're a DD and it currently has no maintainer?
--
see sh
On 2007-06-04 15:18:45 +0200, Romain Francoise wrote:
> It's very simple: Debian is no longer upstream for emacs-snapshot in
> Ubuntu, the packages are taken from my personal repository.
>
> See https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/emacs-snapshot/1:20070529-1
Is there a way to use the Ubuntu pack
cothrige <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> I was aware that gNewSense was derived from Ubuntu, but I suppose I
> had not given much thought to how Ubuntu themselves handle these
> things. Do they just redistribute these things straight from Debian?
> I suppose I simply assumed that they would include
On Sunday 03 June 2007 19:52:27 cothrige wrote:
> * Wesley J. Landaker ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> > Well since gNewSense is a derivative of Ubuntu which derives from
> > Debian, by default the emacs docs would be out as well, unless they add
> > them back in themselves. Looking at gNewSense, I go
* Wesley J. Landaker ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
>
> Well since gNewSense is a derivative of Ubuntu which derives from Debian, by
> default the emacs docs would be out as well, unless they add them back in
> themselves. Looking at gNewSense, I got the impression that they only
> removed things a
On Thursday 31 May 2007 20:56:45 cothrige wrote:
> One could go with gNewSense, http://www.gnewsense.org/, which is what
> Richard Stallman uses. It appears to be Ubuntu stripped of anything
> that the maintainers would consider non-free. I am assuming that
> would not mean Emacs docs, as RMS end
On Sat, Jun 02, 2007 at 01:31:26PM -0500, Ron Johnson wrote:
> Journaling, not so much, but the routing and firewalling chores of a
> large ISP can put a serious load on a machine.
Panix uses a NetApp for storage, so a journaling filesystem in the OS is not
needed or usable anyway.
--
Carl Fink
On 06/02/07 10:44, Roberto C. Sánchez wrote:
On Sat, Jun 02, 2007 at 07:06:40AM -0500, Ron Johnson wrote:
On 06/01/07 22:45, Carl Fink wrote:
On Fri, Jun 01, 2007 at 10:57:54PM -, BartlebyScrivener wrote:
What about FreeBSD? I may stick that on an old machine just to try it.
I don't follo
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On Sat, 2 Jun 2007 11:44:21 -0400
Roberto C. Sánchez <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Neither of which make it any less capable as a router or firewall
> system.
Which, to use an analogy using the hardware I have, makes Linux the
Core 2 Duo EM64T box and
On Sat, Jun 02, 2007 at 07:06:40AM -0500, Ron Johnson wrote:
> On 06/01/07 22:45, Carl Fink wrote:
> >On Fri, Jun 01, 2007 at 10:57:54PM -, BartlebyScrivener wrote:
> >
> >>What about FreeBSD? I may stick that on an old machine just to try it.
> >>I don't follow the politics, but maybe they wou
On 06/01/07 22:45, Carl Fink wrote:
On Fri, Jun 01, 2007 at 10:57:54PM -, BartlebyScrivener wrote:
What about FreeBSD? I may stick that on an old machine just to try it.
I don't follow the politics, but maybe they would be your cup of tea?
My ISP, Panix, uses NetBSD on their hosts. So far
On Fri, Jun 01, 2007 at 10:57:54PM -, BartlebyScrivener wrote:
> What about FreeBSD? I may stick that on an old machine just to try it.
> I don't follow the politics, but maybe they would be your cup of tea?
My ISP, Panix, uses NetBSD on their hosts. So far as I know, zero crashes
due to inst
On Jun 1, 3:10 pm, Nic James Ferrier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> Ok. You and a few others here helped me decide. Thanks very much.
>
I have Debian on two machines and Ubuntu on two others. I have to say
that I prefer Debian on a work machine, because it doesn't break.
Stable means something, etc.
Ok. You and a few others here helped me decide. Thanks very much.
--
Nic Ferrier
http://www.tapsellferrier.co.uk
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Carl Fink wrote:
[snip]
In fact, at the time of the naming (1776), there were no other recognized
"states" in the Americas. Just colonies.
No, there were also indian governments. True, they weren't States.
However, the colonies were not the only entities with governments,
which is what your
Cassiano Bertol Leal wrote:
> I'm sorry, mate. But not everyone in this list and/or using Debian is
> from the USNA.
Semi-touche'. I pointed in particular to our politics so no one
would think I was denigrating anyone else's.
> Well, that may seem weird to you, but there *are* real politician
On May 30, 12:40 pm, Nic James Ferrier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> I am really ANGRY at Debian.
So put on a suit of armor and attack a hot fudge sundae.
Or use Ubuntu, but why rant?
As long as they keep including vim I'm happy.
rd
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On Fri, Jun 01, 2007 at 05:31:39AM -0700, Peter Gruessing wrote:
> I thought this was a Debian Linux mailing list?>
Yup. I was just complaining about off-topic postings, too. My apologies.
OTOH, don't top-post.
--
Carl Fink [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Read my blog
On Fri, Jun 01, 2007 at 07:16:04AM -0500, Ron Johnson wrote:
> The Iroquois Confederacy existed before European Colonization, and
> were called the Five Nations. However, Wikipedia says "at the
> height of their power in the seventeenth century, (there was only) a
> population of around twelve
I thought this was a Debian Linux mailing list?>
Note: forwarded message attached.
Peter Gruessing
CEO/President
www.powanga.com
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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On 06/01/07 06:36, Carl Fink wrote:
On Fri, Jun 01, 2007 at 06:16:46AM -0500, Klein Moebius wrote:
* Carl Fink <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2007-05-31 21:58:47 -0400]:
In fact, at the time of the naming (1776), there were no other recognized
"states" in the Americas. Just colonies.
I think Hopi,
* Carl Fink <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2007-05-31 21:58:47 -0400]:
> In fact, at the time of the naming (1776), there were no other recognized
> "states" in the Americas. Just colonies.
I think Hopi, Navajo, Pueblo, Apache, Kiowa, Nez Perce, Sioux,
Blackfoot, and a host of other peoples I've failed
On Fri, Jun 01, 2007 at 06:16:46AM -0500, Klein Moebius wrote:
> * Carl Fink <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2007-05-31 21:58:47 -0400]:
>
>
> > In fact, at the time of the naming (1776), there were no other recognized
> > "states" in the Americas. Just colonies.
>
> I think Hopi, Navajo, Pueblo, Apache
On 05/31/07 20:58, Carl Fink wrote:
[snip]
And if you don't like it, stick it in your pipe and shove it where
the sun don't shine.
But that doesn't justify being stupidly scatological.
How is my belly button scatological? :)
--
Ron Johnson, Jr.
Jefferson LA USA
Give a man a fish, and he
* Manoj Srivastava ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> On Thu, 31 May 2007 19:59:27 +0100, Nic James Ferrier
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
>
> > My name is Nic Ferrier. I am really ANGRY at Debian. After 10 years
> > of being a dedicated Debian user I have reached the point at which I
> > am so angry wi
On Thu, May 31, 2007 at 06:17:49PM -0500, Ron Johnson wrote:
> On 05/31/07 13:39, Cassiano Bertol Leal wrote:
> [snip]
> >
> >I'm sorry, mate. But not everyone in this list and/or using Debian is
> >from the USNA (United States of North America, as I call it, since it is
> > not the only federative
On 05/31/07 13:39, Cassiano Bertol Leal wrote:
[snip]
I'm sorry, mate. But not everyone in this list and/or using Debian is
from the USNA (United States of North America, as I call it, since it is
not the only federative republic in America -- read North, Central and
South).
The USA was the "
On 5/31/07, Manoj Srivastava <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On Thu, 31 May 2007 06:39:39 -0400, Michael Marsh
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
> Given one particular invariant section that always appears in FSF/GNU
> GFDL'ed documentation, my preferred analogy is, "You can't skip the
> commercials."
* Nic James Ferrier ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> cothrige <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > People often seem to resent what looks like a personal political idea
> > getting in the way of the system. In this case it is suggested that
> > Debian is being petty and fighting over trivial political s
Nic James Ferrier wrote:
My name is Nic Ferrier. I am really ANGRY at Debian.
[snip]
Why? Same reason as with Emacs-snapshot:
http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=357260
After reading that, I came to the conclusion that you are
angry at the wrong people. ISTM that you should
On Thu, 31 May 2007 20:05:44 +0100, Nic James Ferrier
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
> And I do not accept that it is ok because it's only transitional and
> eventually documentation will be pushed into non-free. If that's the
> case why couldn't we wait for that to happen before it got removed
> fro
On Thu, 31 May 2007 19:59:27 +0100, Nic James Ferrier
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
> My name is Nic Ferrier. I am really ANGRY at Debian. After 10 years
> of being a dedicated Debian user I have reached the point at which I
> am so angry with what is being done that I want to stop using it. I
> wi
On Thu, 31 May 2007 06:39:39 -0400, Michael Marsh
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
> Given one particular invariant section that always appears in FSF/GNU
> GFDL'ed documentation, my preferred analogy is, "You can't skip the
> commercials."
Man. You don't have MythTV? Or Tivo? My sympathies.
On Thu, 31 May 2007 08:57:43 -0400, Douglas Allan Tutty
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
> I especially hate man pages that basically
> tell nothing about the program and say something to the effect "this
> man page was written for debian because the origional package did not
> include a man page and w
El jue, 31-05-2007 a las 19:59 +0100, Nic James Ferrier escribió:
> Max Hyre <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > Watch out for loaded words. The decision was indeed
> > ``political'' in that it was put up to a vote, but
> > `politics' has negative connotations that I don't think
> > apply here. E
cothrige <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> People often seem to resent what looks like a personal political idea
> getting in the way of the system. In this case it is suggested that
> Debian is being petty and fighting over trivial political stuff.
I am NOT trying to debate the decision to regard G
* Cassiano Bertol Leal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2007-05-31 15:39:42 -0300]:
> I'm sorry, mate. But not everyone in this list and/or using Debian is
> from the USNA (United States of North America, as I call it, since it is
> not the only federative republic in America -- read North, Central and
> Sou
Max Hyre <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Watch out for loaded words. The decision was indeed
> ``political'' in that it was put up to a vote, but
> `politics' has negative connotations that I don't think
> apply here. Each person voting, whether pro or con, was
> voting out of principle, not beca
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Max Hyre escreveu:
> Nic James Ferrier wrote:
>
>> [T]earing useful stuff out of packages because of a
>> political decision without providing an automatic upgrade
>> is stupid. It *will* lose you users.
>
>Watch out for loaded words. The decisi
* Stephan Seitz ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> On Thu, May 31, 2007 at 08:01:20AM -0400, Marty wrote:
> >license, which *is* considered a free license. In my opinion, all the
> >analogies fall short because documentation is not software, regardless
> >of Debian's dogmatic claims to the contrary.
>
Nic James Ferrier wrote:
> [T]earing useful stuff out of packages because of a
> political decision without providing an automatic upgrade
> is stupid. It *will* lose you users.
Watch out for loaded words. The decision was indeed
``political'' in that it was put up to a vote, but
`politics' h
On 2007-05-31, Nic James Ferrier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> An alternative action would have been to move bash-doc, emacs and
> other packages that are going to be altered by this decision to
> non-free rather than removing the documentation and leaving us with
> none.
>
emacs21-common-non-dfs
On Thu, May 31, 2007 at 08:01:20AM -0400, Marty wrote:
license, which *is* considered a free license. In my opinion, all the
analogies fall short because documentation is not software, regardless
of Debian's dogmatic claims to the contrary.
If you mean with documentation some files you have o
* Hal Vaughan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2007-05-30 19:38:31 -0400]:
> You do realize, don't you, that you've just guaranteed this thread will
> still be high in volume for the next month with that one statement!
Until someone mentions Nazis?
Regards,
Klein
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"Karl E. Jorgensen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> "An alternative"? Re-writing the Emacs manual (IIRC this was the
> sticking point early on in this thread) is not an easy task. At the
> very least I would expect this to take some time. In the mean time, the
> maintainer(s) still had to follow
On Thu, May 31, 2007 at 01:56:03AM +, Tyler Smith wrote:
> On 2007-05-31, Kevin Mark <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > About a year ago, there was a GR (general resolution) that Debian had
> > and it said 'GFDL without invariant sections' are DFSG-free while 'GFDL
> > with invariant sections'
On 5/31/07, Marty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Michael Marsh wrote:
> Given one particular invariant section that always appears in FSF/GNU
> GFDL'ed documentation, my preferred analogy is, "You can't skip the
> commercials."
Except that in this case, the "commercial" is from the document's author
On Thu, May 31, 2007 at 12:24:47PM +0100, Nic James Ferrier wrote:
> "Michael Marsh" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > On 5/30/07, Max Hyre <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> You're not allowed to change or discard that lump. Isn't it at least
> >> *understandable* that many believe this document is
On 2007-05-31, Nic James Ferrier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I fully accept the ramifications of Debian's democratic process. But
> Debian has made a big mistake here; tearing useful stuff out of
> packages because of a political decision without providing an
> automatic upgrade is stupid. It *w
Michael Marsh wrote:
On 5/30/07, Max Hyre <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
_But_, please put anger aside a moment and examine the GFDL with
unbiased eyes. If a document has an invariant section, then you have a
file
a) with a lump of lead inside that has to be dragged around
wit
"Michael Marsh" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> On 5/30/07, Max Hyre <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> You're not allowed to change or discard that lump. Isn't it at least
>> *understandable* that many believe this document is unfree?
>
> Given one particular invariant section that always appears in FS
On Thu, May 31, 2007 at 06:39:39AM -0400, Michael Marsh wrote:
Given one particular invariant section that always appears in FSF/GNU
GFDL'ed documentation, my preferred analogy is, "You can't skip the
commercials."
And Debian as the „TV sender” has decided to not allow commercials. If
you want
On 5/30/07, Max Hyre <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
_But_, please put anger aside a moment and examine the GFDL with
unbiased eyes. If a document has an invariant section, then you have a
file
a) with a lump of lead inside that has to be dragged around
with the document, foreve
Kevin Mark <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> On Thu, May 31, 2007 at 01:56:03AM +, Tyler Smith wrote:
>> On 2007-05-31, Kevin Mark <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >
>> > About a year ago, there was a GR (general resolution) that Debian had
>> > and it said 'GFDL without invariant sections' are DFSG-
On Wed, May 30, 2007 at 04:09:11PM -0500, Ron Johnson wrote:
> On 05/30/07 12:18, Nic James Ferrier wrote:
> >My name is Nic Ferrier. I am really ANGRY at Debian.
> >
> >After 10 years of being a dedicated Debian user I have reached the
> >point at which I am so angry with what is being done that I
On Thu, May 31, 2007 at 01:56:03AM +, Tyler Smith wrote:
> On 2007-05-31, Kevin Mark <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > About a year ago, there was a GR (general resolution) that Debian had
> > and it said 'GFDL without invariant sections' are DFSG-free while 'GFDL
> > with invariant sections'
On 2007-05-31, Kevin Mark <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> About a year ago, there was a GR (general resolution) that Debian had
> and it said 'GFDL without invariant sections' are DFSG-free while 'GFDL
> with invariant sections' is not. Read info on the vote.
That's all fine and good, and I've been
Dear Nic:
Nic James Ferrier wrote:
> My name is Nic Ferrier. I am really ANGRY at Debian.
...
> > Oh dear. emacs-snapshot is quite old and not recent at all.
I'm sorry you're upset. I can certainly understand distaste for an
old emacs---I'm a hardcore emacs user myself.
> Hmmm,
>
On 05/30/07 12:18, Nic James Ferrier wrote:
My name is Nic Ferrier. I am really ANGRY at Debian.
After 10 years of being a dedicated Debian user I have reached the
point at which I am so angry with what is being done that I want to
stop using it. I will start to look for viable alternatives to D
On Wednesday 30 May 2007, Gilles Mocellin wrote:
> Le Wednesday 30 May 2007 19:18:27 Nic James Ferrier, vous avez écrit :
...
> PS:
> I hope this thread will end very soon.
You do realize, don't you, that you've just guaranteed this thread will
still be high in volume for the next month with that
Le Wednesday 30 May 2007 19:18:27 Nic James Ferrier, vous avez écrit :
> My name is Nic Ferrier. I am really ANGRY at Debian.
[...rant...]
1) Don't mess with the social contract, it for the users (not for the
developpers)
2) EVERYTHING can go to the non-free section of the repository (using Deb
My name is Nic Ferrier. I am really ANGRY at Debian.
After 10 years of being a dedicated Debian user I have reached the
point at which I am so angry with what is being done that I want to
stop using it. I will start to look for viable alternatives to Debian.
A few weeks ago, as Emacs was nearing
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