On Thursday 16 October 2008, Henrique de Moraes Holschuh wrote:
> On Thu, 16 Oct 2008, Hal Vaughan wrote:
> > 1) I'm a writer by avocation. Honestly, it's much easier for me to
> > write a 5,000 word email than a 500 word one. I'll refer you to
> > Churchill's quotation about how long it would ta
On Thu, 16 Oct 2008, Hal Vaughan wrote:
> 1) I'm a writer by avocation. Honestly, it's much easier for me to
> write a 5,000 word email than a 500 word one. I'll refer you to
> Churchill's quotation about how long it would take him to write a long
> speech vs. a short one.
Have that added to
On Thursday 16 October 2008, you wrote:
> A lot of what you're saying is right, and is great advice to the
> community. But in the time it took you to write that 5000+ word
> email you probably could have written the patch and submitted it.
1) I'm a writer by avocation. Honestly, it's much easie
On Wednesday 15 October 2008, you wrote:
> Hal Vaughan wrote:
> > Both of your comments involve disagreements over differences of
> > opinion -- but I can see where you're coming from and I think the
> > point about rewording the warnings in menu.lst would go a long way
> > toward addressing the is
A lot of what you're saying is right, and is great advice to the
community. But in the time it took you to write that 5000+ word email
you probably could have written the patch and submitted it.
"You must be the change you wish to see in the world."
-- Mahatma Gandhi
If you'd "love to see
On Tuesday 14 October 2008, Michelle Konzack wrote:
> Am 2008-10-12 17:44:08, schrieb Hal Vaughan:
> > If I read every man page in detail on every
> > program or conf file I use, I'd still be reading. I'd have never
> > gotten anywhere. You know that as well as I. Have you read the
> > full deta
Hal Vaughan wrote:
Both of your comments involve disagreements over differences of
opinion -- but I can see where you're coming from and I think the point
about rewording the warnings in menu.lst would go a long way toward
addressing the issue that led me to file the bug report.
If filing the
Am 2008-10-12 17:44:08, schrieb Hal Vaughan:
> If I read every man page in detail on every
> program or conf file I use, I'd still be reading. I'd have never
> gotten anywhere. You know that as well as I. Have you read the full
> details in each man page you use? Have you ever had to just fo
On Wednesday 15 October 2008, Eduardo M KALINOWSKI wrote:
> Denvid Wright escreveu:
> > On Tuesday 14 October 2008, Douglas A. Tutty wrote:
> >>WARNING: YOU HAVE A LOCKED AND LOADED ASSAULT RIFLE POINTED AT
> >>YOUR FEET AND YOUR FINGER IS ON THE TRIGGER.
> >
> > Interesting analogy, but it
Denvid Wright escreveu:
> On Tuesday 14 October 2008, Douglas A. Tutty wrote:
>
>> WARNING: YOU HAVE A LOCKED AND LOADED ASSAULT RIFLE POINTED AT
>> YOUR FEET AND YOUR FINGER IS ON THE TRIGGER.
>>
> Interesting analogy, but it doesn't work, for several reasons. First,
> it's qui
On Tue, Oct 14, 2008 at 09:22:28AM +1100, Ben Finney wrote:
> No, that quote was not made by Sir Stephen Henry Roberts. (If you know
> differently, could you please provide a reference?)
Uhm, why do you post in public? It seems to be entirely off-topic.
Michael
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Apologies for any confusion. While making changes to my LAN, I had
some downed systems and used a friend's laptop while he was here. I
should have either waited or sent it later.
Hal
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On Tuesday 14 October 2008, Douglas A. Tutty wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 14, 2008 at 03:08:17PM -0400, Hal Vaughan wrote:
> > For instance, stating it in the file: Again, not everyone has time
> > to read all the comments in all the files. As to unrealistic
> > expectations, what would be so hard with us
On Tue, Oct 14, 2008 at 03:08:17PM -0400, Hal Vaughan wrote:
> For instance, stating it in the file: Again, not everyone has time to
> read all the comments in all the files. As to unrealistic
> expectations, what would be so hard with using a bash script specifying
> the rewrite was going to
On Tuesday 14 October 2008, Eduardo M KALINOWSKI wrote:
> Hal Vaughan wrote:
> > Instead of just calling
> > update-grub, a script could have said, "This update will
> > re-write /boot/grub/menu.lst. Press return to continue." That
> > would have been enough (although giving a choice of continuin
Hal Vaughan wrote:
> Instead of just calling
> update-grub, a script could have said, "This update will
> re-write /boot/grub/menu.lst. Press return to continue." That would
> have been enough (although giving a choice of continuing or not would
> have been nice, too).
> [...]
> I see the po
On Mon, 13 Oct 2008 18:04:07 -0300
Henrique de Moraes Holschuh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Maybe this is not the nicer way things could work, but given the constrains
> in which Debian operates, the mailing lists are where we have more attention
> and "human resources" t
On Tuesday 14 October 2008, Eduardo M KALINOWSKI wrote:
> Hal Vaughan escreveu:
> > It was two years ago. I don't remember all the details, but
> > basically I did something like "aptitude update && aptitude
> > upgrade", got a new kernel image, and a clobbered menu.lst and it
> > took me hours be
On Mon, Oct 13, 2008 at 17:36:25 -0400, Hal Vaughan wrote:
> On Monday 13 October 2008, Florian Kulzer wrote:
[...]
> > I only wanted to point out that there is a direct logical line from
> > the replies to your bug report to the relevant documentation.
> > Therefore I think that your complaints
On Tue, 2008-10-14 at 15:08 -0400, Hal Vaughan wrote:
[snip]
> As a user, you run apt and get notified that important files
> may be changed.
[snip]
Sorry, but you've said this several times in this thread, and it's just
wrong. Apt/dpkg/whathaveyou do *not* notify the user whenever they are
going
Hal Vaughan escreveu:
> It was two years ago. I don't remember all the details, but basically I
> did something like "aptitude update && aptitude upgrade", got a new
> kernel image, and a clobbered menu.lst and it took me hours before I
> got the server up and running. The system worked fine u
On Tuesday 14 October 2008, Eduardo M KALINOWSKI wrote:
> Hal Vaughan escreveu:
> > I don't mean this with any offense, but you're so wrapped up in the
> > details you're not seeing what's going on. You're re-arranging the
> > deck chairs on the Titanic.
>
> I may be, after all this thread has bee
Hal Vaughan escreveu:
> I don't mean this with any offense, but you're so wrapped up in the
> details you're not seeing what's going on. You're re-arranging the
> deck chairs on the Titanic.
I may be, after all this thread has been going on very long. So I kindly
ask you to summarize what did y
On Monday 13 October 2008, Eduardo M KALINOWSKI wrote:
> Hal Vaughan wrote:
> > But does it address the original issue? The original report is
> > that menu.lst is overwritten without notice.
>
> A fact that is noted in that file, by the way.
>
> In the top, there are pointers to documentation on
On Mon, Oct 13, 2008 at 11:21 PM, Eduardo M KALINOWSKI
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hal Vaughan wrote:
>> But does it address the original issue? The original report is that
>> menu.lst is overwritten without notice.
>>
>
> A fact that is noted in that file, by the way.
>
> In the top, there are p
Chris Bannister <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> --
> Chris.
> ==
> I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god
> than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other
> possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.
>
Hal Vaughan wrote:
> But does it address the original issue? The original report is that
> menu.lst is overwritten without notice.
>
A fact that is noted in that file, by the way.
In the top, there are pointers to documentation on what interacts with
the file:
# menu.lst - See: grub(8), info
Chris Bannister <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> You have raised some interesting points.
I tried to delve backward to see what exactly those points were, but
didn't get much success. It would be good for someone to summarise the
positions; all I have at the moment is one side believes the other is
On Monday 13 October 2008, Florian Kulzer wrote:
> On Sun, Oct 12, 2008 at 17:44:08 -0400, Hal Vaughan wrote:
> > On Sunday 12 October 2008, Florian Kulzer wrote:
> > > On Sun, Oct 12, 2008 at 13:56:57 -0400, Hal Vaughan wrote:
>
> [...]
>
> > > > With that in mind, notice that nothing said in thos
On Mon, 13 Oct 2008, Chris Bannister wrote:
> You have raised some interesting points. If you consider the BTS as a
> help desk, then I think you will be sorely disappointed.
>
> It seems that to file a bug report the submitter first has to research
> the problem, try and resolve it, and if possib
On Sun, Oct 12, 2008 at 17:44:08 -0400, Hal Vaughan wrote:
> On Sunday 12 October 2008, Florian Kulzer wrote:
> > On Sun, Oct 12, 2008 at 13:56:57 -0400, Hal Vaughan wrote:
[...]
> > > With that in mind, notice that nothing said in those posts is at
> > > all helpful.
[ snip: quotes from the bug
On Sun, Oct 12, 2008 at 06:25:23PM -0400, Hal Vaughan wrote:
> On Sunday 12 October 2008, Eduardo M KALINOWSKI wrote:
> > Hal Vaughan wrote:
> > > My original point is that I don't file bug reports with
> > > FOSS because I've had some indifferent and even hostile replies.
> > > As I've said, ther
On Sunday 12 October 2008, Eduardo M KALINOWSKI wrote:
> Hal Vaughan wrote:
> > My original point is that I don't file bug reports with
> > FOSS because I've had some indifferent and even hostile replies.
> > As I've said, there are reasons that I usually file bug reports
> > under a legal alias a
Hal Vaughan wrote:
> My original point is that I don't file bug reports with
> FOSS because I've had some indifferent and even hostile replies. As
> I've said, there are reasons that I usually file bug reports under a
> legal alias and why I used to be on mailing lists using the same aka.
> I
On Sunday 12 October 2008, Florian Kulzer wrote:
> On Sun, Oct 12, 2008 at 13:56:57 -0400, Hal Vaughan wrote:
>
> [...]
>
> > I'll ask you to read in this context: 1) You know very little about
> > how packages in Debian are maintained, 2) You know nothing about
> > the internals of apt, 3) You do
On Sunday 12 October 2008, Daniel Burrows wrote:
> On Sun, Oct 12, 2008 at 01:56:57PM -0400, Hal Vaughan
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> was heard to say:
> > On Sunday 12 October 2008, Daniel Burrows wrote:
> > > Regardless, I don't see his mail as being at all impolite; just
> > > a little terse.
> >
> >
On Sun, Oct 12, 2008 at 13:56:57 -0400, Hal Vaughan wrote:
[...]
> I'll ask you to read in this context: 1) You know very little about how
> packages in Debian are maintained, 2) You know nothing about the
> internals of apt, 3) You do not know Christian at all, have no idea
> what he is like,
On Sun, Oct 12, 2008 at 01:56:57PM -0400, Hal Vaughan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> was
heard to say:
> On Sunday 12 October 2008, Daniel Burrows wrote:
> > Regardless, I don't see his mail as being at all impolite; just
> > a little terse.
>
> I'll ask you to read in this context: 1) You know very littl
On Sunday 12 October 2008, Daniel Burrows wrote:
> On Sat, Oct 11, 2008 at 12:23:01PM -0400, Hal Vaughan
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> was heard to say:
> > His (Christian's) comments were "This has nothing to do with
> > aptitude." Then he goes on to talk about update-grub and that I
> > asked for it. No.
On Sat, Oct 11, 2008 at 12:23:01PM -0400, Hal Vaughan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> was
heard to say:
> His (Christian's) comments were "This has nothing to do with aptitude."
> Then he goes on to talk about update-grub and that I asked for it. No.
> I didn't ask for it. I remember that situation enou
On Saturday 11 October 2008, Steve Kemp wrote:
...
> Anyway I think I've clarified my previous mail sufficiently, so
> I'll happily stop now. I think we've probably both made our points
> sufficiently. The next thing to do is to either consider ways to
> help raise awareness of expectations
On Sun, Oct 12, 2008 at 01:07:41AM -0400, Celejar wrote:
> On Sat, 11 Oct 2008 23:46:39 -0400
> Carl Fink <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Data point: I reported a bug in the joe editor just over two years ago.
> > Joseph H. Allen even listed a patch to fix the bug in response to the
> > report.
On Sat, 11 Oct 2008 23:46:39 -0400
Carl Fink <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Data point: I reported a bug in the joe editor just over two years ago.
> Joseph H. Allen even listed a patch to fix the bug in response to the
> report.
>
> The bug remains unfixed.
>
> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bug
Carl Fink wrote:
> Data point: I reported a bug in the joe editor just over two years ago.
> Joseph H. Allen even listed a patch to fix the bug in response to the
> report.
>
> The bug remains unfixed.
>
> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=386883
>
> And yes, I haven't reported m
Data point: I reported a bug in the joe editor just over two years ago.
Joseph H. Allen even listed a patch to fix the bug in response to the
report.
The bug remains unfixed.
http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=386883
And yes, I haven't reported many bugs since. It is in fact disc
On Sat Oct 11, 2008 at 20:12:26 -0400, Hal Vaughan wrote:
> "Reported a number of bugs over time. Found the rule was not getting
> useful responses, more often negative, or in some cases, hostile
> responses, as opposed to positive or even neutral ones."
My apologies for simplifying too much
On Saturday 11 October 2008, Steve Kemp wrote:
> On Sat Oct 11, 2008 at 19:47:40 -0400, Hal Vaughan wrote:
> > Still, I do have to take bug reports and I have to smile sweetly as
> > I do because those reports come from clients who are paying me
> > enough per month that I have to keep them a bit m
On Sat Oct 11, 2008 at 19:47:40 -0400, Hal Vaughan wrote:
> Still, I do have to take bug reports and I have to smile sweetly as I
> do because those reports come from clients who are paying me enough per
> month that I have to keep them a bit more than happy. If someone can't
> handle bug repo
On Saturday 11 October 2008, Andrei Popescu wrote:
> On Sat,11.Oct.08, 12:23:01, Hal Vaughan wrote:
>
> [...]
>
> I agree, the DD's response was not his best contribution ever (I
> wonder why he was answering on aptitude bugs at all since he is not
> the maintainer). But is it fair to judge develop
On Sat,11.Oct.08, 12:23:01, Hal Vaughan wrote:
[...]
I agree, the DD's response was not his best contribution ever (I wonder
why he was answering on aptitude bugs at all since he is not the
maintainer). But is it fair to judge developers by one of them[1]
(possibly having a bad day)?
[1] I'm
On Saturday 11 October 2008, Andrei Popescu wrote:
> On Sat,11.Oct.08, 10:20:57, Hal Vaughan wrote:
>
> [...]
>
> > I still maintain that the issue had more to do with the issue than
> > the response said, however in that case, but I felt the responder
> > was more interested in writing it off than
On Sat,11.Oct.08, 10:20:57, Hal Vaughan wrote:
[...]
> I still maintain that the issue had more to do with the issue than the
> response said, however in that case, but I felt the responder was more
> interested in writing it off than in dealing with the issue or helping
> me figure out where
On Sat, 2008-10-11 at 10:20 -0400, Hal Vaughan wrote:
> On Saturday 11 October 2008, Florian Kulzer wrote:
> > On Sat, Oct 11, 2008 at 12:52:09 +0300, Andrei Popescu wrote:
> > > On Sat,11.Oct.08, 03:32:23, Ron Johnson wrote:
> > > > I've *never* had a DD get hostile with me. Ignored? Yes. But
>
On Saturday 11 October 2008, Florian Kulzer wrote:
> On Sat, Oct 11, 2008 at 12:52:09 +0300, Andrei Popescu wrote:
> > On Sat,11.Oct.08, 03:32:23, Ron Johnson wrote:
> > > I've *never* had a DD get hostile with me. Ignored? Yes. But
> > > not hostile.
> >
> > Me neither, not even when I screwed
On Sat, Oct 11, 2008 at 12:52:09 +0300, Andrei Popescu wrote:
> On Sat,11.Oct.08, 03:32:23, Ron Johnson wrote:
>
> > I've *never* had a DD get hostile with me. Ignored? Yes. But not
> > hostile.
>
> Me neither, not even when I screwed up big time (#499594).
>
> The response of Julien Cristau
On Sat,11.Oct.08, 03:32:23, Ron Johnson wrote:
> I've *never* had a DD get hostile with me. Ignored? Yes. But not
> hostile.
Me neither, not even when I screwed up big time (#499594).
The response of Julien Cristau was exemplary, even though I wasted his
time (during the freeze!) with my st
On 10/10/08 22:21, Hal Vaughan wrote:
[snip]
Don't get me wrong, I love open source. I've contributed to several
projects with code, including doing a couple of my own projects. For
instance, I learned C++ just so I could write the code for LinuxICE
that controlled some HD radios through th
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