Hi,
Martin Steigerwald:
> Am Donnerstag, 27. November 2014, 22:30:15 schrieb Vincent Bernat:
> > ❦ 27 novembre 2014 22:02 +0100, Martin Steigerwald :
> > > And well, I also wonder why systemd --user functionality is in the *same*
> > > binary than the PID 1 stuff… but well…
> >
> > Wild guess:
Hi,
Marc Haber:
> Updating of such systems has always been a pain, but this time it's
> going to be a gazillion times more painful.
>
Why? (Seriously.)
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On Fri, 2014-11-28 at 08:45 +0100, Josselin Mouette wrote:
> Le jeudi 27 novembre 2014 à 21:29 +0100, Marc Haber a écrit :
> > On Thu, 27 Nov 2014 01:19:14 +0100, Josselin Mouette
> If you want to help our users, you
> can contribute to debianfork, or you can improve your packages in
> Debian.
Hi,
Marc Haber:
> On Thu, 27 Nov 2014 11:53:18 +0100, Matthias Urlichs
> wrote:
> >Yes, the logind-related parte _could_ be provided elsewhere, but part of
> >the features logind needs is already implemented in systemd. So using that
> >instead of rolling your own from scratch is simply common se
Am 28.11.2014 um 08:19 schrieb Matthias Urlichs:
> Hi,
>
> Tomas Pospisek:
>> At least the Ruby On Rails framework notices an updated JS and will
>> re-compress the whole JS blob from its parts.
>
> Does it call stat() on every constituent of these packed JS files on every
> web request, or does
Le vendredi 28 novembre 2014 à 06:16 +, olivier sallou a écrit :
> Le Fri Nov 28 2014 at 01:55:26, Tomas Pospisek a
> écrit :
>
> > Am 28.11.2014 um 00:04 schrieb Thomas Goirand:
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > Web application have evolved into monsters that needs lots of
> > > javascript. It's very co
On Fri, Nov 28, 2014 at 5:51 PM, Jérémy Lal wrote:
> The debian side is in no way able / fit to take care of *live* updating
> js/css bundles. This is up to the web framework you're using - like you
> mentioned for example RoR.
> What is needed for debian-packaged webapps is to be able to regenera
Hello,
In the (last) hope that the CTTE will bring this issue on the agenda
next meeting on December 4. Additional information below and a short
summary.
On Wed, 2014-11-26 at 09:56 +0100, Thorsten Glaser wrote:
> On Tue, 25 Nov 2014, Svante Signell wrote:
>
> > (another partial? solution is to
Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Thomas Goirand
* Package name: libjs-autonumeric
Version : 1.9.12
Upstream Author : Robert J. Knothe
* URL : https://github.com/BobKnothe/autoNumeric
* License : Expat
Programming Lang: Javascript
Description : j
On Fri, 28 Nov 2014, Svante Signell wrote:
> the order of pre-depends for int init package should change from
> Pre-Depends: systemd-sysv | sysvinit-core | upstart
> to
> Pre-Depends: sysvinit-core | systemd-sysv | upstart
That would probably require changes in d-i to ensure that
systemd is, inde
Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Thomas Goirand
* Package name: libjs-backbone-deep-model
Version : 0.10.4
Upstream Author : Charles Davison, Pow Media Ltd,
* URL : https://github.com/powmedia/backbone-deep-model
* License : Expat
Programming Lang: Ja
Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Thomas Goirand
* Package name: libjs-backbone.stickit
Version : 0.7.0
Upstream Author : The New York Times, Matthew DeLambo
* URL : https://github.com/NYTimes/backbone.stickit
* License : Expat
Programming Lang: Javasc
Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Thomas Goirand
* Package name: libjs-cocktail
Version : 0.5.7
Upstream Author : Onsi Fakhouri
* URL : https://github.com/onsi/cocktail
* License : Expat
Programming Lang: Javascript
Description : implementation o
On Fri, 28 Nov 2014, Thomas Goirand wrote:
> It's been a long time I've been thinking about it, and I believe that
> the only way to do this, would be to use triggers. Though I have never
Look at libjs-protoaculous which combines prototype and
scriptaculous into one (possibly minified) js file. I
Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Thomas Goirand
* Package name: libjs-i18next
Version : 1.7.1
Upstream Author : Jan Muehlemann
* URL : http://github.com/i18next/i18next
* License : Expat
Programming Lang: Javascript
Description : easy way to tra
Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Thomas Goirand
* Package name: libjs-requirejs
Version : 2.1.9
Upstream Author : jrburke
* URL : https://github.com/jrburke/requirejs
* License : BSD-or-MIT
Programming Lang: Javascript
Description : uses plain s
On Fri, 28 Nov 2014, Svante Signell wrote:
> It will be interesting to see how many Debian Maintainers and Developers
> will jump the ship and join them (in addition to the users). Future will
I’ll tell you in the present.
Github? Ugh! http://mako.cc/copyrighteous/free-software-needs-free-tools
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Hi,
On 28.11.2014 09:43, Svante Signell wrote:
> The official name of the Debian fork is devuan: https://devuan.org
> It will be interesting to see how many Debian Maintainers and
> Developers will jump the ship and join them (in addition to the
> u
Hi,
On Thu, Nov 27, 2014 at 10:50:26AM +, Edmund Grimley Evans wrote:
> http://wiki.debian.org/ArchitectureSpecificsMemo
>
> Some suggestions for improving this table:
>
> 1. About half of the table is taken up with sizeof information, some
> of which could be expressed more concisely. (Are
Hi debian-devel,
I'm glad to say I just upgraded my machine[1] from wheezy (7.4~5)
directly to current Jessie, and I found this progress is just
painless at all, and no dependency problems remains after upgrade.
There indeed are some configuration issues which I resolved
easily, and I think those
On Nov 28, Svante Signell wrote:
> a) Upgrades should _not_ change init: whatever is installed should be
> kept.
I disagree: upgrades should get the default init system unless the
system administrator chooses otherwise.
> b) New installs should get systemd-sysv as default init with a debconf
>
On 28/11/14 11:56, Svante Signell wrote:
3) Add information in release-notes on how to:
- Upgrade from stable/testing/sid to jessie to avoid getting
systemd-sysv installed (this should not strictly be needed if the ctte
chooses to decide that upgrades will _not_ switch init)
This part has alrea
On 2014-11-28 14:41, Marco d'Itri wrote:
> On Nov 28, Svante Signell wrote:
>
> [...]
>> b) New installs should get systemd-sysv as default init with a debconf
>> message about alternative init systems.
> It would be totally unacceptable to waste the time of every Debian user
> with pointless ad
Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Thomas Goirand
* Package name: libjs-requirejs-text
Version : 2.0.9
Upstream Author : James Burke
* URL : https://github.com/requirejs/text
* License : BSD-or-MIT
Programming Lang: Javascript
Description : loader
Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Thomas Goirand
* Package name: libjs-require-css
Version : 0.1.0
Upstream Author : Guy Bedford
* URL : https://github.com/guybedford/require-css
* License : Expat
Programming Lang: Javascript
Description : requir
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Hi,
On 28.11.2014 14:41, Marco d'Itri wrote:
>> a) Upgrades should _not_ change init: whatever is installed
>> should be kept.
> I disagree: upgrades should get the default init system unless the
> system administrator chooses otherwise.
I disagre
On Fri, Nov 28, 2014 at 10:30:40AM +0100, Tomas Pospisek wrote:
> Am 28.11.2014 um 08:19 schrieb Matthias Urlichs:
> > Hi,
> >
> > Tomas Pospisek:
> >> At least the Ruby On Rails framework notices an updated JS and will
> >> re-compress the whole JS blob from its parts.
> >
> > Does it call stat(
On Fri, 28 Nov 2014, Marco d'Itri wrote:
> On Nov 28, Svante Signell wrote:
>
> > a) Upgrades should _not_ change init: whatever is installed should be
> > kept.
> I disagree: upgrades should get the default init system unless the
> system administrator chooses otherwise.
I disagree with you,
Hi,
Simon Richter:
> I have a system where the network connection is so important that the
> pppd is invoked via the inittab, which is a published interface of the
> init system and has been for decades. When an upgrade installs
> systemd, this machine will simply drop off the network.
>
> Other
On 11/28/2014 03:16 PM, Thorsten Glaser wrote:
> On Fri, 28 Nov 2014, Marco d'Itri wrote:
>> I disagree: upgrades should get the default init system unless the
>> system administrator chooses otherwise.
>
> I disagree with you, and so does CTTE, this time: they said
> that existing installations
On Fri, 28 Nov 2014, Ansgar Burchardt wrote:
> No, the ctte did not say that. We had a flamewar about that
> interpretation before.
That was almost word by word from
https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2014/11/msg0.html
bye,
//mirabilos
--
>> Why don't you use JavaScript? I also
On Fri, Nov 28, 2014 at 02:41:23PM +0100, Marco d'Itri wrote:
On Nov 28, Svante Signell wrote:
a) Upgrades should _not_ change init: whatever is installed should be
kept.
I disagree: upgrades should get the default init system unless the
system administrator chooses otherwise.
Of course not.
On 11/28/2014 03:24 PM, Thorsten Glaser wrote:
> On Fri, 28 Nov 2014, Ansgar Burchardt wrote:
>> No, the ctte did not say that. We had a flamewar about that
>> interpretation before.
>
> That was almost word by word from
> https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2014/11/msg0.html
See [
On Fri, Nov 28, 2014 at 03:24:18PM +0100, Thorsten Glaser wrote:
> On Fri, 28 Nov 2014, Ansgar Burchardt wrote:
>
> > No, the ctte did not say that. We had a flamewar about that
> > interpretation before.
>
> That was almost word by word from
> https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2014/
Simon McVittie:
If sshd uses (or can be made to use) IP_FREEBIND to remove the
> potential dependency on bringing up network interfaces, then
> /lib/systemd/system/ssh.service could have DefaultDependencies=no,
> RequiresMountsFor=/usr /lib /etc, and drop its dependency on
> network.target.
A
Octavio Alvarez:
Question: is it safe to say that systemd doesn't yet support the
> full /etc/fstab specification from util-linux [1]?
Yes; it's safe. It's also wrong. But it's quite safe. (-:
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On Nov 28, Simon Richter wrote:
> I disagree: This is not safe and can break systems.
Everything is not safe and can break systems, so this is not a very
compelling argument.
> I have a system where the network connection is so important that the
> pppd is invoked via the inittab, which is a pu
On Fri, 28 Nov 2014, Stephan Seitz wrote:
> Of course not. syslog-ng was not replaced by rsyslog when Debian changed the
> default syslog.
Note that syslog-ng was not the default, but sysklogd (which was)
wasn’t replaced either. Thankfully.
> The grub1 bootloader was not replaced when Debian cha
On Fri, Nov 28, 2014 at 04:00:42PM +0100, Thorsten Glaser wrote:
On Fri, 28 Nov 2014, Stephan Seitz wrote:
Of course not. syslog-ng was not replaced by rsyslog when Debian
changed the default syslog.
Note that syslog-ng was not the default, but sysklogd (which was)
wasn’t replaced either. Thank
Vincent Danjean:
I found another issue with systemd and noauto.
> [...]
> Do you think I should do a bugreport ?
Not until you've constructed a far better description, because your
current description is this:
1. I have several lines in /etc/fstab that all have "noauto".
2. systemd is obeyi
On Fri, 2014-11-28 at 13:48 +0100, Thorsten Glaser wrote:
> On Fri, 28 Nov 2014, Svante Signell wrote:
>
> > It will be interesting to see how many Debian Maintainers and Developers
> > will jump the ship and join them (in addition to the users). Future will
>
> I’ll tell you in the present.
>
>
On Fri, 28 Nov 2014, Stephan Seitz wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 28, 2014 at 04:00:42PM +0100, Thorsten Glaser wrote:
> > On Fri, 28 Nov 2014, Stephan Seitz wrote:
> > > Of course not. syslog-ng was not replaced by rsyslog when Debian changed
> > > the default syslog.
> > Note that syslog-ng was not the de
On Fri, 28 Nov 2014, Svante Signell wrote:
> > Github? Ugh! http://mako.cc/copyrighteous/free-software-needs-free-tools
> This has just started, give them some time, please.
No. If they even consider things like this, there is something
seriously wrong right in the beginning.
> Maybe it would b
On Fri, Nov 28, 2014 at 9:04 PM, lumin wrote:
> However there's a issue:
> Once started the Xorg, it Segfaults right away.
> Seems that this is caused by xserver-xorg-video-siliconmotion[3].
Please file a bug (severity serious):
http://x.debian.net/howto/report-bugs.html
> (Please let me know w
Package: general
Severity: important
I installed the psad in order to detect port scanning attempts and
– according to the recommendations from https://wiki.debian.org/iptables –
installed my initial set of rule to be loaded by iptables-persistent.
However, in the init script order, psad has prio
Control: reassign -1 psad
On Fri, 28 Nov 2014 16:55:00 +0100, Sven Herzberg wrote:
> I installed the psad in order to detect port scanning attempts and
> – according to the recommendations from https://wiki.debian.org/iptables –
> installed my initial set of rule to be loaded by iptables-persiste
Processing control commands:
> reassign -1 psad
Bug #771337 [general] init-scripts: iptables-persistent initialized after psad
Bug reassigned from package 'general' to 'psad'.
Ignoring request to alter found versions of bug #771337 to the same values
previously set
Ignoring request to alter fixed
Hi Tim,
I believe we already have that one:
https://packages.qa.debian.org/j/jffi.html
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Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5478a80c.5070...@apache.org
The mailinglist of Devuan is not hosted "elsewhere" - it's hosted on the
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Just call dyne.org in the browser ...
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On Fri, 28 Nov 2014 10:20:22 +0100, Matthias Urlichs
wrote:
>If you want to convince the systemd people to split that part of systemd-
>-as-pid1 off to a separate library, and/or to properly version that API,
>you should submit an appropriate patch
You see, I have been an architect and a sysadmi
On Thu, 27 Nov 2014 14:25:46 -0800, Nikolaus Rath
wrote:
>Would you stop using (random example) apache if it started shipping with
>some often-useful CGI scripts?
I am pretty sure that the apache people would include them with a way
to disable them just in case one does not want them.
And I am a
On Fri, 28 Nov 2014 08:45:29 +0100, Josselin Mouette
wrote:
>There is nothing in the FUD that’s still being spread that hasn’t been
>entirely debunked almost a year ago in
>https://wiki.debian.org/Debate/initsystem/systemd
>I have nothing to add to what we wrote at that time.
>
>And I’m tired of p
On Fri, 28 Nov 2014 09:30:01 +0100, Matthias Urlichs
wrote:
>Marc Haber:
>> Updating of such systems has always been a pain, but this time it's
>> going to be a gazillion times more painful.
>>
>Why? (Seriously.)
Because this time fixing those things is more than just minor changes
in some init
On Fri, 2014-11-28 at 19:05 +0100, Marc Haber wrote:
> And I am also pretty sure that they would not de-implement the Common
> Gateway Interface just because people still like to run vulnerable
> Matt Wright Scripts from 2002.
For many things, CGI is actually the only way to run them securely,
si
Matthias Urlichs writes:
> Non-standard inittab entries should surely be displayed and warned about,
> but IMHO that's not sufficient reason to not switch the other 99.99%
> who never touched their inittab.
In the server world, I'm pretty sure you are significantly underestimating
the number of
Hi,
Marc Haber writes:
> Your way of communicating is hurting people as usual. Please stop.
I respectfully disagree. There was imho nothing in the quoted message
that would warrant a reaction like this.
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Maxime Chatelle schrieb:
> Package: wnpp
> Severity: wishlist
> Owner: Maxime Chatelle
>
> * Package name: cakephp2
> Version : 2.5.6
> Upstream Author : http://cakefoundation.org/
> * URL : http://cakephp.org/
> * License : MIT
> Programming Lang: PHP
> De
On Fri, Nov 28, 2014 at 07:03:14PM +0100, Marc Haber wrote:
> It's not that anybody needs to listen, but nobody is going to tell me
> to shut up just because I only know how the result of a job should
> look like without being able to do the job myself.
Having a detailed discussion about how syste
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Hi,
Am 28.11.2014 15:55, schrieb Marco d'Itri:
> > I have a system where the network connection is so important that the pppd
> > is invoked via the
inittab, which is a published interface of the init system and has been
for decades. When an upgrade
On Fri, Nov 28, 2014 at 04:40:50PM +0100, Thorsten Glaser wrote:
> Hey, there are *still* bugs found because of s390 (not s390x).
Uhm. s390x is 64bit BE; ppc64 and sparc64 never made it into the archive.
Kind regards
Philipp Kern
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On Fri, Nov 28, 2014 at 07:08:09PM +0100, Marc Haber wrote:
> And this facing a mostly hostile upstream and a Fedora-Centric
> community.
I have observed a mostly hostile Debian community in recent months. I'm not
sure if this jab at Fedora is particularly warranted.
Kind regards
Philipp Kern
Marc Haber writes:
> On Thu, 27 Nov 2014 14:25:46 -0800, Nikolaus Rath
> wrote:
>> Would you stop using (random example) apache if it started shipping with
>> some often-useful CGI scripts?
>
> I am pretty sure that the apache people would include them with a way
> to disable them just in case on
On Fri, Nov 28, 2014 at 08:27:51PM +0100, Moritz Mühlenhoff wrote:
> Maxime Chatelle schrieb:
> > Package: wnpp
> > Severity: wishlist
> > Owner: Maxime Chatelle
> >
> > * Package name: cakephp2
> > Version : 2.5.6
> > Upstream Author : http://cakefoundation.org/
> > * URL
Hi,
Marc Haber writes:
> A few hours of reasearch later (which could have been a few minutes if
> just the community would have been a bit more helpful) it turned out
> they were right: We start kdm via an init script and sysvrc emulation,
> and this does actually break the distinction between mu
On Fri, 28 Nov 2014 20:55:42 +0100, Philipp Kern
wrote:
>On Fri, Nov 28, 2014 at 07:08:09PM +0100, Marc Haber wrote:
>> And this facing a mostly hostile upstream and a Fedora-Centric
>> community.
>
>I have observed a mostly hostile Debian community in recent months. I'm not
>sure if this jab at F
Am Freitag, 28. November 2014, 09:28:39 schrieb Matthias Urlichs:
> Hi,
>
> Martin Steigerwald:
> > Am Donnerstag, 27. November 2014, 22:30:15 schrieb Vincent Bernat:
> > > ❦ 27 novembre 2014 22:02 +0100, Martin Steigerwald
:
> > > > And well, I also wonder why systemd --user functionality is i
On Fri, 28 Nov 2014 12:28:19 -0800, Nikolaus Rath
wrote:
>Marc Haber writes:
>> On Thu, 27 Nov 2014 14:25:46 -0800, Nikolaus Rath
>> wrote:
>>> Would you stop using (random example) apache if it started shipping with
>>> some often-useful CGI scripts?
>>
>> I am pretty sure that the apache peopl
On Fri, Nov 28, 2014 at 10:21:48PM +0100, Marc Haber wrote:
> Is that as "easy" as running current GNOME without systemd, which is
> surely possible?
Much easier. Note that if you want GNOME without systemd, it required
actual effort instead of doing petty jabs on mailing lists. Actual
effort was
On Fri, Nov 28, 2014 at 10:36:22PM +0100, Olav Vitters wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 28, 2014 at 10:21:48PM +0100, Marc Haber wrote:
> > Is that as "easy" as running current GNOME without systemd, which is
> > surely possible?
>
> Much easier. Note that if you want GNOME without systemd, it required
> actu
2014-11-28 23:29 GMT+01:00 Adam Borowski :
> On Fri, Nov 28, 2014 at 10:36:22PM +0100, Olav Vitters wrote:
>> On Fri, Nov 28, 2014 at 10:21:48PM +0100, Marc Haber wrote:
>> > Is that as "easy" as running current GNOME without systemd, which is
>> > surely possible?
>>
>> Much easier. Note that if y
On 11/28/2014 08:20 PM, Thorsten Glaser wrote:
> On Fri, 28 Nov 2014, Thomas Goirand wrote:
>
>> It's been a long time I've been thinking about it, and I believe that
>> the only way to do this, would be to use triggers. Though I have never
>
> Look at libjs-protoaculous which combines prototype
Marc Haber writes:
> On Fri, 28 Nov 2014 12:28:19 -0800, Nikolaus Rath
> wrote:
>>Marc Haber writes:
>>> On Thu, 27 Nov 2014 14:25:46 -0800, Nikolaus Rath
>>> wrote:
Would you stop using (random example) apache if it started shipping with
some often-useful CGI scripts?
>>>
>>> I am pr
On Thu, Nov 27, 2014 at 10:02:06PM +0100, Martin Steigerwald wrote:
> And well, I also wonder why systemd --user functionality is in the *same*
> binary than the PID 1 stuff… but well… I brought this upstream to no avail.
OK, since this is a different forum, let me go over the reasons once again.
On Fri, Nov 28, 2014 at 4:32 PM, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek
wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 27, 2014 at 10:02:06PM +0100, Martin Steigerwald wrote:
>> And well, I also wonder why systemd --user functionality is in the *same*
>> binary than the PID 1 stuff… but well… I brought this upstream to no avail.
> OK
On Sat, 2014-11-29 at 00:08 +0800, Paul Wise wrote:
> Please file a bug (severity serious):
Yes, filed this bug at:
#771387: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=771387
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Le vendredi 28 novembre 2014, 22:25:28 Marc Haber a écrit :
> We start kdm via an init script and sysvrc emulation,
> and this does actually break the distinction between multi-user.target
> and graphical.target.
Hi,
Here is a native kdm service I'v copied from an other distro months ago;
and use
On Fri, 28 Nov 2014 23:49:58 +0100, Matthias Klumpp
wrote:
>I think he meant systemd, the PID 1 specifically here.
No.
Greetings
Marc
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On Fri, 28 Nov 2014 22:33:08 +0100, Ansgar Burchardt
wrote:
>Marc Haber writes:
>> A few hours of reasearch later (which could have been a few minutes if
>> just the community would have been a bit more helpful) it turned out
>> they were right: We start kdm via an init script and sysvrc emulatio
Simon Richter wrote:
> On 28.11.2014 09:43, Svante Signell wrote:
> > The official name of the Debian fork is devuan: https://devuan.org
> > It will be interesting to see how many Debian Maintainers and
> > Developers will jump the ship and join them (in addition to the
> > users). Future will tel
Hi,
Marc Haber:
> It's learning and understanding more than just a few bizarre new concepts.
>
I learned. I (think I) understand. But I do not think these fancy new
concepts are bizarre at all. If anything, they make my life way easier.
If anything, IMHO using words like "bizarre" isn't exactly
Quoting Thorsten Glaser (2014-11-28 13:20:36)
> On Fri, 28 Nov 2014, Thomas Goirand wrote:
>
>> It's been a long time I've been thinking about it, and I believe that
>> the only way to do this, would be to use triggers. Though I have
>> never
> Look at libjs-protoaculous which combines prototyp
Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Balasankar C
* Package name: ruby-redis-activesupport
Version : 4.0.0
Upstream Author : Luca Guidi
* URL : https://github.com/redis-store/redis-activesupport
* License : Expat
Programming Lang: Ruby
Description :
❦ 28 novembre 2014 22:21 +0100, Marc Haber :
>>So what? You can also use systemd without using the tools for NTP,
>>network configuration, or the journal.
>
> Is that as "easy" as running current GNOME without systemd, which is
> surely possible?
systemd-timesyncd and systemd-networkd are disab
]] Josh Triplett
> Simon Richter wrote:
> > On 28.11.2014 09:43, Svante Signell wrote:
> > > The official name of the Debian fork is devuan: https://devuan.org
> > > It will be interesting to see how many Debian Maintainers and
> > > Developers will jump the ship and join them (in addition to th
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