> You cannot have an MTA without configuring it, and nobody even tried to
> implement auto-migration of the old default mailer's configuration to the
> new one. Also, we didn't switch to a different default mailer because the
> new one offered a heap of features and infrastructure which the other
>
Package: wnpp
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Owner: Norbert Preining
* Package name: cafeobj
Version : 1.5.0
Upstream Author : Toshimi Sawada
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* License : BSD
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Description : new generation algebraic specif
Hello Jonas,
> In other words, mediaelement.js is a so-called polyfill - it does
> nothing on modern browsers, and mimics modern features on older
> browsers.
as far as I understand the mess, mediaelement.js provides an *API* for
media playback in browsers by acting as a wrapper around and
el
Hello!
I see this as a question about main vs contrib.
Personally I'd put something like (libjs-)mediaelement in contrib
as obviously the main intended purpose it to use it together with
non-free software. But since it's not up to me
Policy says this about contrib:
"The contrib archive area
Ondřej Surý, le Tue 09 Sep 2014 11:47:38 +0200, a écrit :
> And you are saying that you can do all those tweaks, but you cannot
> pin systemd-sysv to not install?
No, I'm saying that if I hadn't noticed "systemd" among the upgrades, I
would have gotten all these changes all of a sudden without ask
Ondřej Surý, le Tue 09 Sep 2014 11:47:38 +0200, a écrit :
> switch the default init to systemd as Debian
> maintainers who would like to keep their sanity would do.
I have lost my sanity about system boot & shutdown since when I have
switched to systemd. Really.
Samuel
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On Tue, Sep 9, 2014, at 09:11, Samuel Thibault wrote:
> > You cannot have an MTA without configuring it, and nobody even tried to
> > implement auto-migration of the old default mailer's configuration to the
> > new one. Also, we didn't switch to a different default mailer because the
> > new one o
Hi Cyril,
On Mon, Sep 08, 2014 at 02:33:06AM +0200, Cyril Brulebois wrote:
>
> At some point it would really be nice to have a summary of what happened
> or what was discussed at DebConf, but on mailing lists. While I'm very
> happy to see stuff happen during in person meetings, keeping people wh
On Tue, Sep 9, 2014, at 11:54, Samuel Thibault wrote:
> Ondřej Surý, le Tue 09 Sep 2014 11:47:38 +0200, a écrit :
> > And you are saying that you can do all those tweaks, but you cannot
> > pin systemd-sysv to not install?
>
> No, I'm saying that if I hadn't noticed "systemd" among the upgrades, I
Ondřej Surý, le Tue 09 Sep 2014 13:10:48 +0200, a écrit :
> On Tue, Sep 9, 2014, at 11:54, Samuel Thibault wrote:
> > Ondřej Surý, le Tue 09 Sep 2014 11:47:38 +0200, a écrit :
> > > And you are saying that you can do all those tweaks, but you cannot
> > > pin systemd-sysv to not install?
> >
> > N
Samuel Thibault, le Tue 09 Sep 2014 13:19:31 +0200, a écrit :
> > > I believe most our users prefer to stay with sysvinit when upgrading from
> > > wheezy
> >
> > And I believe that most our users don't care.
>
> I believe most of our users care about an upgrade to Jessie that doesn't
> bring re
On 09/09/14 13:10, Ondřej Surý wrote:
>> > I believe most our users prefer to stay with sysvinit when upgrading from
>> > wheezy
> And I believe that most our users don't care. But I as a maintainer
> and operator of several daemons I really do care to have as most
> unified environment for debugg
Hi,
Samuel Thibault:
> > So please fill a bug for every breakage you will encounter, so it
> > can be either fixed or documented.
>
> There will be dozens of them then. Will they really be fixed in time for
> Jessie?
>
We don't know yet. Would you rather have bugs which are not even reported,
an
On 09/09/2014 13:10, Ondřej Surý wrote:
> And I'm saying that all we have is anecdotal evidence and we all
> know what we step into when we run our systems on jessie or sid.
> So please fill a bug for every breakage you will encounter, so it
> can be either fixed or documented.
Did you look at the
On 09/09/2014 13:46, Carlos Alberto Lopez Perez wrote:
> So, when upgrading from Wheezy to Jessie, we have three options:
>
> 1) Keep the user init system (sysvinit most probably)
> 2) Upgrade to systemd after asking the user.
> 3) Upgrade to systemd silently without asking the user.
[...]
> I und
Matthias Urlichs, le Tue 09 Sep 2014 13:49:54 +0200, a écrit :
> Samuel Thibault:
> > > So please fill a bug for every breakage you will encounter, so it
> > > can be either fixed or documented.
> >
> > There will be dozens of them then. Will they really be fixed in time for
> > Jessie?
> >
> We
Samuel Thibault, le Tue 09 Sep 2014 14:11:28 +0200, a écrit :
> I have made a quick poll among various people here and there, there is
> no real consensus, either on switching to systemd by default or keeping
> with sysvinit by default. So it seems to me a question during upgrade is
> needed.
(mor
Ondřej Surý, le Tue 09 Sep 2014 13:10:48 +0200, a écrit :
> > And I'm saying that I don't think this is an isolated case,
>
> And I'm saying that all we have is anecdotal evidence
Our uni lab has switched to systemd, 20% of the machines do not boot.
The admin is currently looking at what the diff
Have you read the short book "The Present" yet? It's available free here.
Just go to the website: www.truthcontest.com
Click on the entry called The Present. What it says will turn this world
right-side up if it reaches enough people. You will see what I mean when
you read the first page.
Paul Sm
Hi Thomas,
thanks for caring for this topic.
On Mon, Sep 08, 2014 at 11:15:48PM +0800, Thomas Goirand wrote:
> ...
> So, with what you're proposing, we'll have something like this:
>
>│[*] Desktop environment │
>│[*] ... Xfce
2014-09-09 13:46 GMT+02:00 Carlos Alberto Lopez Perez :
[...]
> So, when upgrading from Wheezy to Jessie, we have three options:
>
> 1) Keep the user init system (sysvinit most probably)
> 2) Upgrade to systemd after asking the user.
> 3) Upgrade to systemd silently without asking the user.
4) Upg
2014-09-09 15:14 GMT+02:00 Mathieu Parent :
> 2014-09-09 13:46 GMT+02:00 Carlos Alberto Lopez Perez :
> [...]
>> So, when upgrading from Wheezy to Jessie, we have three options:
>>
>> 1) Keep the user init system (sysvinit most probably)
>> 2) Upgrade to systemd after asking the user.
>> 3) Upgrade
On Tue, Sep 9, 2014, at 15:14, Mathieu Parent wrote:
> 4) Upgrade to systemd silently without asking the user AND add a grub
> entry to use old init
I like this approach very much since it's least intrusive to the upgrade
process, but provides a emergency fallback in default installation.
O.
--
Samuel Thibault writes:
> When I got "upgraded" to systemd on july, my system was completely
> misbehaving for several reasons related to my configuration:
> - I had an ISO mount in my fstab, whose file didn't exist any more,
> sysvinit never complained about it, systemd just stopped at boot.
S
Carlos Alberto Lopez Perez writes:
> Most of our users don't care as long as their machines continue to work
> as expected after an upgrade.
> So, when upgrading from Wheezy to Jessie, we have three options:
> 1) Keep the user init system (sysvinit most probably)
> 2) Upgrade to systemd after a
Vincent Danjean writes:
> I agree with your analysis. However, how do you think we can ask the
> user ? We can have a debconf question. However, whatever the answer is,
> we must not return an error (i.e. aborting the upgrade). It is really a
> pain to recover when this occurs.
The original plan
Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Peter Pentchev
* Package name: libguasi
Version : 0.25
Upstream Author : Davide Libenzi
* URL : http://xmailserver.org/guasi-lib.html
* License : LGPL-2.1+
Programming Lang: C
Description : Asynchronous syscall l
On 09/09/2014 16:59, Russ Allbery wrote:
> Carlos Alberto Lopez Perez writes:
>> So, when upgrading from Wheezy to Jessie, we have three options:
>
>> 1) Keep the user init system (sysvinit most probably)
>> 2) Upgrade to systemd after asking the user.
>> 3) Upgrade to systemd silently without as
On 09/09/2014 17:01, Russ Allbery wrote:
> Vincent Danjean writes:
>> I agree with your analysis. However, how do you think we can ask the
>> user ? We can have a debconf question. However, whatever the answer is,
>> we must not return an error (i.e. aborting the upgrade). It is really a
>> pain t
Ansgar Burchardt writes:
> On 09/09/2014 17:01, Russ Allbery wrote:
>> The original plan was to have the question owned by some package that
>> could then switch the init symlink from one implementation to another.
>> That way, no abort is required. I'm not sure if that survived contact
>> with
Am 09.09.2014 17:15, schrieb Ansgar Burchardt:
> Having only some systems switch to a different init system on upgrade
> seems potentially confusing to me.
Agreed. We definitely should switch the machines on upgrades. There is a
good reason why we also did it when switching to dependency based boo
[ Please note the cross-post and Reply-To ]
Hi folks,
As promised, here's a quick summary of what was discussed at the BoF
session in Portland. Apologies for the delay - it takes a while to
write these up... :-/
Thanks to the awesome efforts of our video team, the session is
already online [1].
AltSubject: For those who care about OpenVPN
Dear fellow developers,
This is a cry for help. I've been trying to support systemd in OpenVPN for some
time, but the results are not satisfactory. I'd like to keep the current (SysV)
behaviour in systemd but it's becoming quite an annoying task.
I'd
On 09/09/14 15:14, Mathieu Parent wrote:
> 2014-09-09 13:46 GMT+02:00 Carlos Alberto Lopez Perez :
> [...]
>> So, when upgrading from Wheezy to Jessie, we have three options:
>>
>> 1) Keep the user init system (sysvinit most probably)
>> 2) Upgrade to systemd after asking the user.
>> 3) Upgrade to
Members of forum, especially the ReactOS developers, I could not
resist the urge to now post the following message:
This message is mainly for developers of ReactOS operating system.
What are the programming languages that were used to develop the
Debian Linux ?
Probably the Riga Technical Uni
* Ansgar Burchardt [140909 11:16]:
> On 09/09/2014 16:59, Russ Allbery wrote:
> > I don't believe we should switch init systems on upgrade without at least
> > a prompt,
>
> I think there are good arguments for both switching to the new default
> and not:
Perhaps, but not without giving the sysa
* Mathieu Parent [140909 09:15]:
> 2014-09-09 13:46 GMT+02:00 Carlos Alberto Lopez Perez :
> [...]
> > So, when upgrading from Wheezy to Jessie, we have three options:
> >
> > 1) Keep the user init system (sysvinit most probably)
> > 2) Upgrade to systemd after asking the user.
> > 3) Upgrade to s
* Michael Biebl [140909 11:43]:
> Am 09.09.2014 17:15, schrieb Ansgar Burchardt:
> > Having only some systems switch to a different init system on upgrade
> > seems potentially confusing to me.
>
> Agreed. We definitely should switch the machines on upgrades. There is a
> good reason why we also
]] Carlos Alberto Lopez Perez
> But if you don't (Is not uncommon to have servers on remote locations
> that are only accessible via ssh) and the machine don't boots properly
> you can find yourself in trouble.
Then surely you test the upgrade before making it live, using kvm
-snapshot or simila
On Tuesday, 9 de September de 2014 21:18:55 Tollef Fog Heen escribió:
> ]] Carlos Alberto Lopez Perez
>
> > But if you don't (Is not uncommon to have servers on remote locations
> > that are only accessible via ssh) and the machine don't boots properly
> > you can find yourself in trouble.
>
> Th
On 09/09/14 22:18, Tollef Fog Heen wrote:
> ]] Carlos Alberto Lopez Perez
>
>> But if you don't (Is not uncommon to have servers on remote locations
>> that are only accessible via ssh) and the machine don't boots properly
>> you can find yourself in trouble.
>
> Then surely you test the upgrade
On Tuesday, 9 de September de 2014 16:51:20 Alberto Gonzalez Iniesta escribió:
> AltSubject: For those who care about OpenVPN
>
> Dear fellow developers,
>
> This is a cry for help. I've been trying to support systemd in OpenVPN for
> some time, but the results are not satisfactory. I'd like to k
On 09/09/14 22:34, Carlos Alberto Lopez Perez wrote:
> I truly believe that making systemd the default without asking the user
> to test it first, is going to cause more breakage and angry users than
> doing it the other way.
s/making systemd the default/replacing the user init system with systemd
Von meinem iPad gesendet
> Am 09.09.2014 um 22:26 schrieb Noel Torres :
>
> On Tuesday, 9 de September de 2014 16:51:20 Alberto Gonzalez Iniesta escribió:
>> AltSubject: For those who care about OpenVPN
>>
>> Dear fellow developers,
>>
>> This is a cry for help. I've been trying to support sy
]] Carlos Alberto Lopez Perez
> On 09/09/14 22:18, Tollef Fog Heen wrote:
> > ]] Carlos Alberto Lopez Perez
> >
> >> But if you don't (Is not uncommon to have servers on remote locations
> >> that are only accessible via ssh) and the machine don't boots properly
> >> you can find yourself in tr
Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Jordan Justen
* Package name: piglit
Version : 0.0.0
Upstream Author : Piglit
* URL : http://piglit.freedesktop.org/
* License : MIT, GPL
Programming Lang: C, C++, Python
Description : Piglit OpenGL test suite
P
On 09.09.2014 00:19, Paul Wise wrote:
> On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 12:57 AM, Rebecca Palmer wrote:
>>> Someone already
>>> proposed, in the wiki, to add "Games". I like the idea a lot, and it
>>> perfectly makes sense to select all games at once.
>
> That was me. We don't yet have a games-all metapack
Heya,
On 8 September 2014 21:38, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
>
> ...except it really does nothing when that mimic'ing code is missing.
>
I've seen multiple times where a "framework" with a "plugin"
architecture was meant to provide "unified API", but in practice none
of the plugins were packaged/ins
On 09/09/14 23:17, Tollef Fog Heen wrote:
>> That way of testing is completely unreliable when we are talking about
>> > low level stuff (kernel/udev/systemd).
> No, it's not. It is able to emulate most of the concerns people are
> talking about in this thread. Nobody has so far showed up and bee
françai s dijo [Tue, Sep 09, 2014 at 03:17:00PM -0300]:
> Members of forum, especially the ReactOS developers, I could not
> resist the urge to now post the following message:
>
> This message is mainly for developers of ReactOS operating system.
Umh, I'm sorry, this is Debian-land, you will not
Michael Biebl wrote:
> Am 09.09.2014 17:15, schrieb Ansgar Burchardt:
> > Having only some systems switch to a different init system on upgrade
> > seems potentially confusing to me.
>
> Agreed. We definitely should switch the machines on upgrades. There is a
> good reason why we also did it when
On Tue, 2014-09-09 at 21:24 +0100, Noel Torres wrote:
> On Tuesday, 9 de September de 2014 21:18:55 Tollef Fog Heen escribió:
> > ]] Carlos Alberto Lopez Perez
> >
> > > But if you don't (Is not uncommon to have servers on remote locations
> > > that are only accessible via ssh) and the machine do
On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 5:57 AM, Markus Koschany wrote:
> Creating a games-all metapackage would be easily doable
As someone who has been trying to maintain a system (rather than
metapackage) that is basically that (plus a bunch of games removed
from Debian), I don't think it is actually that eas
On Tue, Sep 09, 2014 at 09:26:28PM +0100, Noel Torres wrote:
> openvpn package should Conflitcs systemd in order to avoid systemd being
> installed
ITYM "to avoid openvpn being installed".
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On Mon, Sep 08, 2014 at 11:38:05PM +0800, Thomas Goirand wrote:
> It's by the way surprising to see smartmontools, just as if monitoring
> HDD health is only important for a file server. My take: it's always
> important, whatever you do with a computer.
It should likely be raised to priority=stand
On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 1:34 PM, Philipp Kern wrote:
> It should likely be raised to priority=standard, which would make it part of
> the "standard system utilities" task. smartctl is relatively important for
> problem diagnosis with disk drives.
I don't think it is necessary everywhere:
Various
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