On 07/19/2013 08:32 AM, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
> On 07/18/2013 09:45 PM, Thomas Goirand wrote:
>> If OpenRC isn't what we need (I still believe it does address a bunch of
>> problems and that the fact it can work for non-Linux port is a key
>> factor), then I'd be for Upstart. I do mainta
On Thu, July 18, 2013 09:15, Thomas Goirand wrote:
>> - Fast startup
>
> I thought everyone claimed (including systemd supporters) that this was
> a "teenager side effect" which we didn't care much about.
Definitely not. Debian should care about fast boot a lot. Rebooting a
system, planned or not,
]] Russ Allbery
> The upstart package takes over process 1, so 100% of the systems with the
> upstart package installed are using it as process 1. The same is true of
> systemd-sysv, of course.
This isn't necessarily true. I used to run my laptop with systemd as
pid 1 and the upstart package i
On 07/19/2013 10:15 AM, Thomas Goirand wrote:
Popcon however speaks a completely different language:
Even if that was truth (Russ showed it might not), I don't see how this
is a counter argument to what I wrote. Besides this, this is not a
voting system: if we were governed only by a majority o
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On Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 10:50:36AM +0200, Thijs Kinkhorst wrote:
> On Thu, July 18, 2013 09:15, Thomas Goirand wrote:
> >> - Fast startup
> >
> > I thought everyone claimed (including systemd supporters) that this was
> > a "teenager side effect" which we didn't care much about.
>
> Definitely not
On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 07:05:16AM +0200, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
> Yeah, I see that. But my original point was that the many griefs and
> complaints people about PulseAudio have originate from the fact that
> many people already used it when it simply wasn't ready yet, so it's
> not fair
Hi,
On Mittwoch, 10. Juli 2013, Andreas Beckmann wrote:
> I just noticed in my local piuparts instance that adequate now issues
> incompatible-licenses tags, too. Nice feature, Jakub! :-)
adequate 0.7 is now installed on pejacevic.d.o and piu-slave, so from now on,
these results will be shown on
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Hi William,
William Giokas <1007...@gmail.com> writes:
> * 'Graphical UI: yes': Nope.
side note: it is from
http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/why.html
Cheers,
Benda
pgpLYHGdS_e5Z.pgp
Description: PGP signature
Hi,
would FOSS Exception similar to
http://www.mysql.com/about/legal/licensing/foss-exception/ fix the
relicensing problem?
If so, I will propose Oracle developers to add the FOSS Exception to
Berkeley DB licensing.
The MySQL FOSS Exception doesn't include 4-clause BSD, so it still might
bar som
2013/7/19 Russ Allbery :
> John Paul Adrian Glaubitz writes:
>> On 07/19/2013 02:55 AM, Russ Allbery wrote:
>
>>> I believe the equivalent systemd package to the upstart package is the
>>> systemd-sysv package, so 174 rather than 1604 is perhaps the better
>>> number to use.
>
>> I'm not sure whet
On 07/19/2013 06:57 PM, Scott Kitterman wrote:
sysvinit148865 99.83%
The reason might be that systemd does not conflict with sysvinit :).
Adrian
--
.''`. John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
: :' : Debian Developer - glaub...@debian.org
`. `' Freie Universitaet Berlin - glaub...@physik.fu-
On 07/19/2013 06:43 PM, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
On 07/19/2013 05:43 PM, Thomas Goirand wrote:
We try to have technical reasoning, which is (one of) the reason this
list exists. This has nothing to do with voting.
If we actually did, the choice would have already been made for systemd
On Friday, July 19, 2013 06:35:48 PM John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
> On 07/19/2013 06:12 PM, Mathieu Parent wrote:
> > As the recommended way to install systemd is using init= and not
> > installing systemd-sysv, maybe the popcon "vote" count is the correct
> > metric?
>
> Plus, systemd isn't p
Osamu Aoki writes:
> As I understand, when a library generated from a foo source packge moves
> to a new SONAME, we change its library package name:
> library file:libfoo.so.1 -> libfoo.so.2
> library package: libfoo1 -> libfoo2
> But what should we do with the symbols file as the BE
Scott Kitterman wrote:
> On Friday, July 19, 2013 06:35:48 PM John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
> > On 07/19/2013 06:12 PM, Mathieu Parent wrote:
> > > systemd is "used regulardly" on about 1200 popcon submiters, upstart
> > > on about 600 (this is even less than 100 from 2013-07-04, but what
> > >
John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
>On 07/19/2013 06:57 PM, Scott Kitterman wrote:
>> sysvinit 148865 99.83%
>
>The reason might be that systemd does not conflict with sysvinit :).
So are we playing word games now or trying to solve a problem? According to the
popcon data, neither systemd n
On 07/19/2013 05:43 PM, Thomas Goirand wrote:
We try to have technical reasoning, which is (one of) the reason this
list exists. This has nothing to do with voting.
If we actually did, the choice would have already been made for systemd
long time ago. Don't make yourself any illusions. It has b
On 07/19/2013 07:47 PM, Scott Kitterman wrote:
John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
On 07/19/2013 06:57 PM, Scott Kitterman wrote:
sysvinit148865 99.83%
The reason might be that systemd does not conflict with sysvinit :).
So are we playing word games now or trying to solve a problem
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On 2013-07-19 11:56, Helmut Grohne wrote:
In your reply to Wouter Verhelst you repeatedly argue how PulseAudio
saves time on your end. As has been pointed out this matches neither
Wouter's nor my experience. Clearly your claims are not universal.
Neither are yours. PA works fine for me with Blu
David Kalnischkies writes:
> Of course, both analysis are obviously flawed as this popcon data can't
> really be interpreted that way as its an apple to banana comparison and
> way too few datapoints, but everyone likes misinterpret statistics as
> "proven" by this thread – and statistics say tha
On Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 8:48 PM, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
wrote:
> On 07/19/2013 07:47 PM, Scott Kitterman wrote:
>> John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
>>>
>>> On 07/19/2013 06:57 PM, Scott Kitterman wrote:
sysvinit148865 99.83%
>>>
>>>
>>> The reason might be that systemd does
On Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 10:49:07PM +0200, Vincent Bernat wrote:
> ❦ 19 juillet 2013 11:56 CEST, Helmut Grohne :
>
> > So PA is not removing complexity, but adding to it. Surely a bit of
> > complexity is needed to solve sophisticated tasks, but it could indeed
> > do better. For instance pacmd l
Dear Russ,
Russ Allbery writes:
> I would *hope* a lot of Debian developers would do things like that,
> for any of the options! There's no substitute for actually trying the
> software and seeing how easy it is to use, how well it works, and how
> difficult it is to support. There are a bunch
On 07/19/2013 05:25 PM, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
> On 07/19/2013 10:15 AM, Thomas Goirand wrote:
>>> Popcon however speaks a completely different language:
>>
>> Even if that was truth (Russ showed it might not), I don't see how this
>> is a counter argument to what I wrote. Besides this, t
On 07/19/2013 06:12 PM, Mathieu Parent wrote:
As the recommended way to install systemd is using init= and not
installing systemd-sysv, maybe the popcon "vote" count is the correct
metric?
Plus, systemd isn't pulled in by anything else which means when it's
there it's there because it was activ
Dear all,
John Paul Adrian Glaubitz writes:
> Says the guy who posted this to back up his chain of arguments:
>
>> http://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Talk:Comparison_of_init_systems
Excuse me for hijacking this reply.
On the wiki page.
I revised it into present form last year, after a *shadow* surve
Hi,
As I understand, when a library generated from a foo source packge moves
to a new SONAME, we change its library package name:
library file:libfoo.so.1 -> libfoo.so.2
library package: libfoo1 -> libfoo2
But what should we do with the symbols file as the BEST PRACTICE?
Should we st
Having read both sets of docs (and not merely the two pages named), I have to
assert that the question is not a troll.
The end user docs explain to end users how to use PA when everything's going
according to plan, and cover some common glitches.
I have gained no additional understanding of th
On Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 04:29:21PM +0200, Ondřej Surý wrote:
> Hi,
>
> would FOSS Exception similar to
> http://www.mysql.com/about/legal/licensing/foss-exception/ fix the
> relicensing problem?
>
> If so, I will propose Oracle developers to add the FOSS Exception to
> Berkeley DB licensing.
>
>
❦ 19 juillet 2013 11:56 CEST, Helmut Grohne :
> So PA is not removing complexity, but adding to it. Surely a bit of
> complexity is needed to solve sophisticated tasks, but it could indeed
> do better. For instance pacmd list-* could get some verbosity switches
> and hide some details in the def
Scott Kitterman writes:
> On Friday, July 19, 2013 06:35:48 PM John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
>> The data that we have now is the actual data and it shows upstart
>> isn't very popular.
>
> sysvinit 148865 99.83%
>
> Neither is systemd. The numbers for either are small enough to be
> me
On Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 10:43:33PM +0200, David Kalnischkies wrote:
> But we have also gnome-settings-daemon in experimental which depends without
> an alternative on it. Now, if you look really close on the popcon data for
> systemd you see that in March 2013 there is a plateau reached for systemd
On Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 9:35 AM, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
wrote:
> On 07/19/2013 06:12 PM, Mathieu Parent wrote:
>>
>> As the recommended way to install systemd is using init= and not
>> installing systemd-sysv, maybe the popcon "vote" count is the correct
>> metric?
>
>
> Plus, systemd isn't pul
Le Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 07:14:31PM -0700, Vincent Cheng a écrit :
>
> If/when gnome-shell 3.8 hits unstable and systemd gets forced on end
> users as well...I dare say that the general outcry here on
> debian-devel would make the past network-manager related threads look
> tame in comparison. I of
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On 07/20/2013 12:43 AM, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
> On 07/19/2013 05:43 PM, Thomas Goirand wrote:
>> We try to have technical reasoning, which is (one of) the reason this
>> list exists. This has nothing to do with voting.
>
> If we actually did, the choice would have already been made for
❦ 19 juillet 2013 23:12 CEST, Adam Borowski :
>> > So PA is not removing complexity, but adding to it. Surely a bit of
>> > complexity is needed to solve sophisticated tasks, but it could indeed
>> > do better. For instance pacmd list-* could get some verbosity switches
>> > and hide some detail
On 07/20/2013 07:39 AM, Adam Borowski wrote:
> So why do we even discuss popcon data here
Because John Paul Adrian Glaubitz started writing about it, and defended
strongly that it is be data we should consider...
He is currently alone defending that opinion.
Thomas
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On Sb, 20 iul 13, 08:24:26, Vincent Bernat wrote:
>
> For years, Linux had the reputation of having a terribly difficult audio
> setup and thanks to PulseAudio and its now wide support in applications,
> this is now behind us.
Have you been reading debian-user lately? One of the first
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