Re: On init in Debian

On Tue, 2012-03-20 at 14:49 -0700, Russ Allbery wrote: > Bernd Zeimetz writes: > > No. The goal should be to have something which is easy to debug. > > I don't agree. I'm happy to trade frequency of problems for more > difficult debugging in the rare cases that problems still happen. In > othe

Bug#664836: ITP: node-gyp -- Native addon build tool for Node.js

Package: wnpp Severity: wishlist Owner: "Jérémy Lal" * Package name: node-gyp Version : 0.3.7 Upstream Author : Nathan Rajlich * URL : https://github.com/TooTallNate/node-gyp * License : Expat Programming Lang: JavaScript Description : Native addon bui

Re: On init in Debian

On Mar 21, Svante Signell wrote: > And how do you expect non-experts be able to solve problems when they > pop up. Buying consultant services from the experts? Non-experts are not able to solve any problem, so this is not an issue. -- ciao, Marco signature.asc Description: Digital signature

Re: On init in Debian

On Wed, 2012-03-21 at 09:29 +0100, Marco d'Itri wrote: > On Mar 21, Svante Signell wrote: > > > And how do you expect non-experts be able to solve problems when they > > pop up. Buying consultant services from the experts? > Non-experts are not able to solve any problem, so this is not an issue.

Re: On init in Debian

* Marco d'Itri [120321 09:34]: > On Mar 21, Svante Signell wrote: > > And how do you expect non-experts be able to solve problems when they > > pop up. Buying consultant services from the experts? > Non-experts are not able to solve any problem, so this is not an issue. I'm really fed up with th

Re: On init in Debian

m...@linux.it (Marco d'Itri) writes: > On Mar 21, Svante Signell wrote: > >> And how do you expect non-experts be able to solve problems when they >> pop up. Buying consultant services from the experts? > Non-experts are not able to solve any problem, so this is not an > issue. I'm afraid I'll h

On init in *Debian*

Technical and other merits of contending init systems have been discussed here at some length. I think we should focus on another question, namely, which alternative is best suited to *Debian*, taking into consideration Debian's developer community structure (many independent package maintainers, m

Re: On init in Debian

On 03/21/2012 09:29 AM, Marco d'Itri wrote: > On Mar 21, Svante Signell wrote: > >> And how do you expect non-experts be able to solve problems when they >> pop up. Buying consultant services from the experts? > Non-experts are not able to solve any problem, so this is not an issue. Obviously yo

Re: On init in Debian

* Marco d'Itri [2012-03-21 09:34]: > On Mar 21, Svante Signell wrote: > > > And how do you expect non-experts be able to solve problems when they > > pop up. Buying consultant services from the experts? > Non-experts are not able to solve any problem, so this is not an issue. But they can prov

Re: Re: On init in Debian

> And how do you expect non-experts be able to solve problems when they > pop up. Buying consultant services from the experts? Non-experts are not able to solve any problem, so this is not an issue. You are even unable to understand how brilliant I am you poo

Re: On init in Debian

On 03/20/2012 10:49 PM, Russ Allbery wrote: > Bernd Zeimetz writes: >> On 03/17/2012 08:20 PM, Marco d'Itri wrote: >>> On Mar 17, Thomas Goirand wrote: > Have you noticed that both myself and Phil Hands took the decision to write a sysv init lib, to avoid code duplication? That alone i

Bug#664845: ITP: libpadre-plugin-pdl-perl -- PDL support for Padre IDE

Package: wnpp Owner: Dominique Dumont Severity: wishlist X-Debbugs-CC: debian-devel@lists.debian.org,debian-p...@lists.debian.org * Package name: libpadre-plugin-pdl-perl Version : 0.05 Upstream Author : Ahmad M. Zawawi * URL : http://search.cpan.org/dist/Padre-Plugi

Bug#664257: multiarch tuples are not documented/defined

Matthias Klose writes: > On 19.03.2012 15:34, Jonathan Nieder wrote: >> Goswin von Brederlow wrote: >> >>> Did you read the wiki page? >> >> Yes. Is the kind of information on which calling convention, basic >> system library structures, and so on form the ABI for a given tuple >> that I was giv

Re: On init in Debian

On Mar 21, "Bernhard R. Link" wrote: > > Non-experts are not able to solve any problem, so this is not an issue. > I'm really fed up with this elitism. I am fed up with other cathegories of people, but for some reason the Debian listmasters requested that I do not discuss this here. > There are

Re: On init in Debian

]] Svante Signell > On Tue, 2012-03-20 at 14:49 -0700, Russ Allbery wrote: > > Bernd Zeimetz writes: > > > > No. The goal should be to have something which is easy to debug. > > > > I don't agree. I'm happy to trade frequency of problems for more > > difficult debugging in the rare cases that

Re: Bug#664784: ITP: sandbox -- A helper utility to run programs in a sandboxed environment

On 20/03/12 20:11, Ivan Krylov wrote: > Sandbox is a library (and helper utility) to run programs in a "sandboxed" > environment. This is used as a QA measure to try and prevent applications > from > modifying files they should not. Is sandbox secure (in the sense that an actively malicious p

Re: On init in Debian

On Wed, 2012-03-21 at 12:11 +0100, Tollef Fog Heen wrote: > ]] Svante Signell > > And how do you expect non-experts be able to solve problems when they > > pop up. Buying consultant services from the experts? > > I don't expect non-experts to be able to solve problems with init > scripts any mor

Re: On init in *Debian*

On Mar 21, Thomas Hood wrote: > The proposal to drop support for kernels other than Linux has already > been adequately aired. For the sake of focus I'd like to make the > assumption in this thread that support for alternative kernels and > architectures will not be dropped on account of the cho

Re: On init in Debian

]] Svante Signell > On Wed, 2012-03-21 at 12:11 +0100, Tollef Fog Heen wrote: > > ]] Svante Signell > > > > And how do you expect non-experts be able to solve problems when they > > > pop up. Buying consultant services from the experts? > > > > I don't expect non-experts to be able to solve pr

Re: On init in *Debian*

Marco d'Itri writes ("Re: On init in *Debian*"): > On Mar 21, Thomas Hood wrote: > > The proposal to drop support for kernels other than Linux has already > > been adequately aired. For the sake of focus I'd like to make the > > assumption in this thread that support for alternative kernels and >

Re: On init in Debian

On 03/20/2012 07:14 AM, Tollef Fog Heen wrote: > ]] Russ Allbery > >> m...@linux.it (Marco d'Itri) writes: >>> On Mar 17, Josselin Mouette wrote: >> It is for trivial cases (>90% of init scripts) that this is the most interesting. Non-trivial cases could still be handled by shipping a

Bug#664257: multiarch tuples are not documented/defined

On 21.03.2012 11:26, Goswin von Brederlow wrote: Matthias Klose writes: On 19.03.2012 15:34, Jonathan Nieder wrote: Goswin von Brederlow wrote: Did you read the wiki page? Yes. Is the kind of information on which calling convention, basic system library structures, and so on form the ABI

Re: On init in *Debian*

Le mercredi 21 mars 2012 à 13:39 +, Ian Jackson a écrit : > Marco d'Itri writes ("Re: On init in *Debian*"): > > On Mar 21, Thomas Hood wrote: > > > The proposal to drop support for kernels other than Linux has already > > > been adequately aired. For the sake of focus I'd like to make the >

Re: On init in Debian

On Wed, 2012-03-21 at 14:44 +0100, Tollef Fog Heen wrote: > ]] Svante Signell > > Regarding who is expert or not, can the people who considers themselves > > as such (others shouldn't bother) do a _scientific_ comparison of the > > three alternatives with respect to important features. First step

Re: On init in Debian

Le lundi 19 mars 2012 à 23:17 +0100, Christoph Egger a écrit : > *iff* it was reasonably clear porting upstart would be the required > step I'm rather certain -bsd@ would be working on it. But please noone > expect us to support multiple -- currently linux-only -- init > alternatives just because

Re: On init in Debian

Svante Signell writes: > How on earth would anybody be able to make a decision if there are no > comparisons between the alternatives available? I personally decided to install systemd to one of my machines to learn how it works. I'd recommend this to anyone in this thread that has never used sys

Re: On init in Debian

On Mar 21, 2012 10:57 AM, "Svante Signell" wrote: > > On Wed, 2012-03-21 at 14:44 +0100, Tollef Fog Heen wrote: > > ]] Svante Signell > > > > Regarding who is expert or not, can the people who considers themselves > > > as such (others shouldn't bother) do a _scientific_ comparison of the > > > th

Re: On init in *Debian*

It' said that the 2 main advantage of systemd are parallel and much simpler configuration file. Is it possible to implement an init system for kFreeBSD and Hurd, which init system support the configuration file format, while doesn't support parallel. Then for maintainer of packages with service,

Re: On init in Debian

Svante Signell writes: > On Tue, 2012-03-20 at 14:49 -0700, Russ Allbery wrote: >> I don't agree. I'm happy to trade frequency of problems for more >> difficult debugging in the rare cases that problems still happen. In >> other words, provided that a new solution exposed a much smaller >> surf

Re: On init in Debian

Le 21.03.2012 10:01, Bernhard R. Link a écrit : * Marco d'Itri [120321 09:34]: On Mar 21, Svante Signell wrote: > And how do you expect non-experts be able to solve problems when they > pop up. Buying consultant services from the experts? Non-experts are not able to solve any problem, so thi

Re: On init in Debian

Bernd Zeimetz writes: > On 03/20/2012 10:49 PM, Russ Allbery wrote: >> I don't agree. I'm happy to trade frequency of problems for more >> difficult debugging in the rare cases that problems still happen. > How can you be sure that such problems will happen less often? I apply basic principles

Re: On init in *Debian*

YunQiang Su writes: > It' said that the 2 main advantage of systemd are parallel and much > simpler configuration file. > Is it possible to implement an init system for kFreeBSD and Hurd, which > init system support the configuration file format, while doesn't support > parallel. The primary pr

Re: Bug#664784: ITP: sandbox -- A helper utility to run programs in a sandboxed environment

Simon McVittie writes: > On 20/03/12 20:11, Ivan Krylov wrote: >> Sandbox is a library (and helper utility) to run programs in a "sandboxed" >> environment. This is used as a QA measure to try and prevent applications >> from >> modifying files they should not. > > Is sandbox secure (in the

Re: On init in *Debian*

Josselin Mouette writes ("Re: On init in *Debian*"): > Just because a few vocal people disagree with it, doesn’t mean there is > consensus against it. Just because a few vocal people want to throw out KFreeBSD, doesn't mean there is consensus for it. > Anyway, the point of these discussions is no

Re: On init in *Debian*

On 03/21/2012 09:22 AM, Russ Allbery wrote: > > The primary problem with supporting systemd on kFreeBSD is that it uses > Linux-specific facilities for discovering system events and hence knowing > when to start or stop particular services, and for tracking services so > that it knows when they're

Re: On init in Debian

On 2012-03-21 15:57:23 +0100 (+0100), Josselin Mouette wrote: > This is a reasonable position to take, but if it is the general > position of kFreeBSD developers, it completely dismisses the > shrieks of all those asking to not choose a solution that > currently doesn’t work for kFreeBSD. I've bee

Re: On init in Debian

On Wed, Mar 21, 2012 at 11:06:22AM +0100, Bernd Zeimetz wrote: > On 03/20/2012 10:49 PM, Russ Allbery wrote: > > I don't agree. I'm happy to trade frequency of problems for more > > difficult debugging in the rare cases that problems still happen. > > How can you be sure that such problems will

Re: On init in Debian

David Weinehall wrote: > > On my machine (which might not be the least bit representative of an > "normal" machine -- whatever what would be), the length of the init > scripts ranges from 8 to 653 lines, with the average being 115 lines. I got curious. I used my workstation as a basis. Total Num

Re: On init in Debian

"John H. Robinson, IV" writes: > Not that I think it matters at all, but I did also find 30 occurences of > sleep being called. Anywhere from .1 seconds, up to 5 seconds. Yeah, this is why so many people are excited about a more event-driven boot. Most (hopefully, eventually, all) of those can

Re: On init in *Debian*

On 03/21/2012 05:42 PM, Thomas Hood wrote: > Technical and other merits of contending init systems have been > discussed here at some length. I think we should focus on another > question, namely, which alternative is best suited to *Debian*, taking > into consideration Debian's developer community

Bug#664902: ITP: mitm-me -- Firefox extension to click through certificate warnings

Package: wnpp Severity: wishlist Owner: Sascha Girrulat * Package name: mitm-me Version : 2.1.110626 Upstream Author :Tim Andras * URL : http://andras-tim.github.com/mitm-me * License : MPL 1.1 Programming Lang: Java-Script Description : Firefox exte

Re: On init in *Debian*

Thomas Goirand writes: > I really think that what's missing here is: > - Improve sysvinit and make it better to fit our needs without breaking > anything (eg: less scripts redundancy, parallel booting, ...). If you added to sysvinit cgroup support or something similar (so that we don't have to

Bug#664951: ITP: mitm-me -- Firefox extension to click through certificate warnings

Package: wnpp Severity: wishlist Owner: Sascha Girrulat * Package name: mitm-me Version : 2.1.110626 Upstream Author : Tim Andras * URL : http://andras-tim.github.com/mitm-me * License : MPL-1.1 Programming Lang: Java-Script Description : Firefox ext

Bug#664952: ITP: node-ansi -- Advanced ANSI formatting tool for Node.js

Package: wnpp Severity: wishlist Owner: "Jérémy Lal" * Package name: node-ansi Version : 0.1.0 Upstream Author : Nathan Rajlich * URL : https://github.com/TooTallNate/ansi.js * License : Expat Programming Lang: JavaScript Description : Advanced ANSI fo

Re: On init in *Debian*

Le mercredi 21 mars 2012 à 16:49 +, Ian Jackson a écrit : > Josselin Mouette writes ("Re: On init in *Debian*"): > > Just because a few vocal people disagree with it, doesn’t mean there is > > consensus against it. > > Just because a few vocal people want to throw out KFreeBSD, doesn't > mean

Re: On init in *Debian*

On Wed, Mar 21, 2012 at 4:48 PM, Thomas Goirand wrote: > I really think that what's missing here is: > - Improve sysvinit and make it better to fit our needs without breaking > anything (eg: less scripts redundancy, parallel booting, ...). You're missing the point. We already have parallel bootin

a good "license your software" how-to for upstream developers ?

Hi, i find it difficult and time-consuming to explain, with limited vocabulary (english is not my mother tongue), to an upstream developer that his tarball is not properly licensed. For example i've seen software that was intended to be free, released without any license, or with missing license on

Bug#664974: ITP: octave-geometry -- geometric computing functions for Octave

Package: wnpp Severity: wishlist Owner: Rafael Laboissiere * Package name: octave-geometry Version : 1.4.0 Upstream Author : The Octave Community * URL : http://octave.sourceforge.net/geometry/ * License : GPL-3+ Programming Lang: Octave Description :

Re: On init in Debian

]] Svante Signell > On Wed, 2012-03-21 at 14:44 +0100, Tollef Fog Heen wrote: > > ]] Svante Signell > > > > Regarding who is expert or not, can the people who considers themselves > > > as such (others shouldn't bother) do a _scientific_ comparison of the > > > three alternatives with respect t

Re: a good "license your software" how-to for upstream developers ?

Hi, On Wed, Mar 21, 2012 at 11:39:26PM +0100, Jérémy Lal wrote: > i find it difficult and time-consuming to explain, with limited vocabulary > (english is not my mother tongue), to an upstream developer that his tarball > is not properly licensed. > For example i've seen software that was intended

Bug#664975: ITP: indigo -- Organic Chemistry Toolkit

Package: wnpp Severity: wishlist Owner: Debichem Team * Package name: indigo Version : 1.0.0 Upstream Author : GGA Software Services LLC * URL : http://ggasoftware.com/opensource/indigo * License : GPLv3 Programming Lang: C++, Java, Python Description

Re: On init in *Debian*

On 21.03.2012 18:23, Allison Randal wrote: > I recall this as one of the key differences: systemd is tightly coupled > to the Linux kernel, while upstart is not. I was curious, so asked Scott > James Remnant (upstart's creator), and he says it wouldn't be much > effort to port upstart to kFreeBSD a

debian/rules VS debian/copyright.

I'm really a horrible person and I'm excellent at writing files like debian/rules. From my perspective it's perfectly clear that a simple tool designed to write perfect debian/rules files would have no chance at writing a debian/copyright file. I understand that for decades there has been a large g

Bug#664979: ITP: m2vrequantiser -- MPEG-2 streams requantization

Package: wnpp Severity: wishlist Owner: Alessio Treglia * Package name: m2vrequantiser Version : 1.1 Upstream Author : Martin Wimpress * URL : https://launchpad.net/m2vrequantiser * License : GPL Programming Lang: C Description : MPEG-2 streams requanti

Re: debian/rules VS debian/copyright.

Hi Mike, On Wed, Mar 21, 2012 at 9:00 PM, Mike Mestnik wrote: > I say one can easily split technical > and legal responsibility without the need for any gray lines. > While I am certainly not opposed to your idea in principle - that everyone has something to contribute (including non-programmers

Re: debian/rules VS debian/copyright.

On 03/21/12 20:36, Jonathan Yu wrote: > Hi Mike, > > On Wed, Mar 21, 2012 at 9:00 PM, Mike Mestnik > wrote: > > I say one can easily split technical > and legal responsibility without the need for any gray lines. > > > While I am certainly not opposed to yo

FictionCity.NET - The Social Network for Artists

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Re: On init in *Debian*

On Wed, 21 Mar 2012 15:54:40 +0100, Josselin Mouette wrote: > Le mercredi 21 mars 2012 à 13:39 +, Ian Jackson a écrit : > > Marco d'Itri writes ("Re: On init in *Debian*"): > > > On Mar 21, Thomas Hood wrote: > > > > The proposal to drop support for kernels other than Linux has already > > >

Re: debian/rules VS debian/copyright.

Le Wed, Mar 21, 2012 at 08:00:06PM -0500, Mike Mestnik a écrit : > I'm really a horrible person and I'm excellent at writing files like > debian/rules. From my perspective it's perfectly clear that a simple > tool designed to write perfect debian/rules files would have no chance > at writing a debi

B2G security model (debian package management recommended) - help and advice needed

folks, hi, please take a deep breath before reading. i'm keenly aware of the view that many people hold of me in debian. that i'm even bringing something to your attention and asking for your help (not for me, personally) should therefore tell you a lot more than needs to actually be said. i'm p