[explanations snipped]
Thanks for trying to clarify. I'll stop ranting about that and revisit
things when we're in the freeze.
Greetings
Marc
--
-- !! No courtesy copies, please !! -
Marc Haber | " Questions are the | Mailadresse im Heade
On Sun, 17 Jan 2016 15:19:43 +0100, Tom H wrote:
>Johann (I can't think of the other "fanboi" to whom you're referring)
>has argued in the past for the removal of rc.local and sysvinit
>compatibility.
People like him should be silenced on development mailing lists. They
don't care about the commo
Ansgar Burchardt debian.org> writes:
> Marc Haber zugschlus.de> writes:
> > I, for example, am afraid of having to merge /usr in existing systems
> > during upgrades, causing repartitions to be necessary. I am afraid of
> > partition layout suddenly not fitting any more during an upgrade,
> > c
Marco d'Itri Linux.IT> writes:
> grml-rescueboot is way more useful for rescue purposes.
It is… except, I didn’t take it into account when creating the 256 MiB /boot
for a laptop, and the regular kernel and initrd are huge already these days,
and then you have two of them, plus a temporary initr
On Sun, Jan 10, 2016 at 12:09 PM, Marc Haber
wrote:
> On Sun, 10 Jan 2016 09:53:52 +0100, Tom H wrote:
>>
>> Lennart didn't even say that he wanted to get rid of "EnvironmentFile=".
>>
>>> From the same-named thread on systemd-devel@:
>>
>> --- 8< ---
>> 1)
>> I probably should never have added E
On Sun, 17 Jan 2016 12:29:42 +0100, Vincent Bernat
wrote:
> ? 17 janvier 2016 11:25 +0100, Marc Haber :
>>>Of course, vlan1 is up because with networkd, configuring the "netdev" makes
>>>it up while in Debian, setting the IP makes it up. However, I don't see
>>>you whining about the lack of flexi
❦ 17 janvier 2016 11:25 +0100, Marc Haber :
>>Of course, vlan1 is up because with networkd, configuring the "netdev" makes
>>it up while in Debian, setting the IP makes it up. However, I don't see
>>you whining about the lack of flexibility in Debian where you cannot
>>execute a command when the
On Sun, 17 Jan 2016 11:25:50 +0100, Marc Haber
wrote:
>Judging from man systemd.device, a .device file has something to do
>with udev. A vlan device is not created by udev, it comes into
>existence when a .netdev unit like
>
>|[1/501]mh@barrida:~$ cat /etc/systemd/network/int182.netdev
>|[NetDev
On Sun, 17 Jan 2016 10:21:15 +0100
Marc Haber wrote:
> On Sun, 17 Jan 2016 08:39:02 +, Neil Williams
> wrote:
> >On Sun, 17 Jan 2016 09:07:56 +0100
> >Marc Haber wrote:
> >
> >> On Sun, 17 Jan 2016 00:20:33 +0100, Michael Biebl
> >> wrote:
> >> >Amen. I'm much happier how the last coup
On Sat, 16 Jan 2016 20:24:34 +0100, Vincent Bernat
wrote:
> ? 16 janvier 2016 17:37 +0100, Marc Haber :
>
>>>You seem to always take vague examples to avoid being contradicted. You
>>>can execute any unit before and after network is setup through the
>>>dependency system.
>>
>> Show me how to set
On Sun, 17 Jan 2016 08:39:02 +, Neil Williams
wrote:
>On Sun, 17 Jan 2016 09:07:56 +0100
>Marc Haber wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 17 Jan 2016 00:20:33 +0100, Michael Biebl
>> wrote:
>> >Amen. I'm much happier how the last couple of releases were handled.
>> >The release team(s) did an outstanding job
]] Marc Haber
> We have never done this, and we shold not do that for stretch.
>From https://release.debian.org/jessie/freeze_policy.html:
After the 5th of February 2015, we will not allow packages to
re-enter testing if they are removed.
>From https://release.debian.org/wheezy/freeze_
On Sun, 17 Jan 2016 09:07:56 +0100
Marc Haber wrote:
> On Sun, 17 Jan 2016 00:20:33 +0100, Michael Biebl
> wrote:
> >Amen. I'm much happier how the last couple of releases were handled.
> >The release team(s) did an outstanding job.
> >And things like autoremovals are a god send.
>
> I am not
On Sun, 17 Jan 2016 00:20:33 +0100, Michael Biebl
wrote:
>Amen. I'm much happier how the last couple of releases were handled. The
>release team(s) did an outstanding job.
>And things like autoremovals are a god send.
I am not opposed to autoremovals. I am opposed to removing packages
and not let
Am 16.01.2016 um 23:38 schrieb Philipp Kern:
> On Sat, Jan 16, 2016 at 04:07:12PM +0100, Marc Haber wrote:
>> There was a time when we released when it was finished. Now it seems
>> like we aim to release at all cost when the calendar says that we
>> should.
>
> No. We always ignored the last bunc
On Sat, Jan 16, 2016 at 04:07:12PM +0100, Marc Haber wrote:
> There was a time when we released when it was finished. Now it seems
> like we aim to release at all cost when the calendar says that we
> should.
No. We always ignored the last bunch of bugs. At some point you need to
make the call tha
❦ 16 janvier 2016 17:37 +0100, Marc Haber :
>>You seem to always take vague examples to avoid being contradicted. You
>>can execute any unit before and after network is setup through the
>>dependency system.
>
> Show me how to set a certain option to a VLAN interface that is
> created by /etc/sy
On Sat, 16 Jan 2016 17:12:02 +0100, Vincent Bernat
wrote:
> ? 16 janvier 2016 16:38 +0100, Marc Haber :
>> It's simply unproductive to first having to argue with upstream if one
>> needs one certain IPv6 /proc/sys/net option in systemd-networkd _and_
>> to wait for the next Debian stable release
❦ 16 janvier 2016 16:38 +0100, Marc Haber :
> It's simply unproductive to first having to argue with upstream if one
> needs one certain IPv6 /proc/sys/net option in systemd-networkd _and_
> to wait for the next Debian stable release for this possibility to
> become available, if I need to set t
On Sat, 09 Jan 2016 11:09:00 -0800, Russ Allbery
wrote:
>For one specific example, it's become quite clear over the past year that
>systemd has achieved the same status as abortion debates in US politics.
>Not only is it clear that we will *never* stop arguing about systemd,
>opposition to or supp
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
On Sat, Jan 16, 2016 at 04:09:00PM +0100, Marc Haber wrote:
> It would help to be friendly to each other. No CoC needed by that,
> it's just basic common sense.
The meaning of "friendly" and "common sense" is different for different people.
If you wri
On Sat, 9 Jan 2016 15:59:33 +, Ian Jackson
wrote:
>But I have had, in general, good support from almost all quarters.
>Almost no-one has tried to discourage me, and there has been no anger,
>derision, or attacks. The main limiting factor has been my own
>available effort, and the complexity o
On Sat, 9 Jan 2016 09:31:36 +0200, Lars Wirzenius wrote:
>On Fri, Jan 08, 2016 at 01:31:12PM -0800, Russ Allbery wrote:
>> What will kill Debian faster than anything else is to have every idea for
>> changing something large, interesting, or possibly revolutionary in Debian
>> be met with anger, d
On Sat, 9 Jan 2016 11:14:53 +, Neil Williams
wrote:
>On Sat, 9 Jan 2016 18:32:28 +0800
>Paul Wise wrote:
>> On Sat, Jan 9, 2016 at 1:41 AM, Marc Haber wrote:
>>
>> > Yes, I have heard your (it was you, wasn't it) talk in Heidelberg. I
>> > took with me that you plan to adopt a "once you're o
On Sat, 9 Jan 2016 11:12:37 +, Jonathan McDowell
wrote:
>On Fri, Jan 08, 2016 at 07:09:59PM +0100, Marc Haber wrote:
>> On Fri, 8 Jan 2016 17:54:49 +, Jonathan McDowell
>> wrote:
>> >You're not communicating clearly and this is indeed causing problems
>> >in this thread. You said "all my
On Jan 10 2016, Eric Valette wrote:
> Russ Allbery writes:
>
>> For one specific example, it's become quite clear over the past year that
>> systemd has achieved the same status as abortion debates in US politics.
>> Not only is it clear that we will *never* stop arguing about systemd,
>> oppositi
On Sun, Jan 10, 2016 at 10:56:21AM +0100, Eric Valette wrote:
> Your example comparing systemd debate vs abortion debate is definitively
> insane
snip
> ...(at least here in France).
Russ specifically said "in US politics". His analogy was very clearly bracketed
to the situation in the US, *not* i
Hallo,
* Eric Valette [Sun, Jan 10 2016, 02:16:50PM]:
> >On Sun, Jan 10, 2016 at 10:56:21AM +0100, Eric Valette wrote:
> >>Russ Allbery writes:
> >>
> >>>For one specific example, it's become quite clear over the past year that
> >>>systemd has achieved the same status as abortion debates in US pol
On 10/01/16 11:09, Marc Haber wrote:
> Yes. But two of his militant fanbois suggested in the following that
> the option should be removed
Unfortunately, any sufficiently large community seems to have people
whose contributions are not entirely (or sometimes not at all)
constructive. I'm sure ther
On Sun, Jan 10, 2016 at 10:56:21AM +0100, Eric Valette wrote:
Russ Allbery writes:
>For one specific example, it's become quite clear over the past year that
>systemd has achieved the same status as abortion debates in US politics.
>Not only is it clear that we will *never* stop arguing about sy
On Sun, Jan 10, 2016 at 10:56:21AM +0100, Eric Valette wrote:
> Russ Allbery writes:
>
> >For one specific example, it's become quite clear over the past year that
> >systemd has achieved the same status as abortion debates in US politics.
> >Not only is it clear that we will *never* stop arguing
On Sun, 10 Jan 2016 09:53:52 +0100, Tom H wrote:
>On Wed, Jan 6, 2016 at 12:03 AM, Philipp Kern wrote:
>Lennart didn't even say that he wanted to get rid of "EnvironmentFile=".
>
>>From the same-named thread on systemd-devel@:
>
>--- 8< ---
>1)
>I probably should never have added EnvironmentFile=
I agree, one is about a person's right to not be forced to have something
that they aren't able to support and will cause their life difficulty, the
other is about abortion
> Your example comparing systemd debate vs abortion debate is definitively
insane : abortion is a philosophical debate that m
Russ Allbery writes:
For one specific example, it's become quite clear over the past year that
systemd has achieved the same status as abortion debates in US politics.
Not only is it clear that we will *never* stop arguing about systemd,
opposition to or support of systemd has turned into a trib
Sorry. Not meant for list. :(
On Sun, Jan 10, 2016 at 9:59 AM, Tom H wrote:
> Off-list.
>
> On Wed, Jan 6, 2016 at 1:38 PM, Ansgar Burchardt wrote:
>>
>> What is the advantage of having a optional-merged-/usr?
>
> Imagine the opposition if this had been proposed as a non-optional change!
>
> (BT
Off-list.
On Wed, Jan 6, 2016 at 1:38 PM, Ansgar Burchardt wrote:
>
> What is the advantage of having a optional-merged-/usr?
Imagine the opposition if this had been proposed as a non-optional change!
(BTW, I'll take this opportunity to thank you for two of your recent
proposals, the re-work of
On Wed, Jan 6, 2016 at 12:03 AM, Philipp Kern wrote:
> On 2016-01-04 11:30, Marc Haber wrote:
>>
>> Please also notice that this is the only option for ExecStart in
>> systemd units. Well played, Lennart.
>
> Similarly skeleton-based init scripts use the full path as well. It helps if
> you can st
Ian Jackson writes:
> Russ Allbery writes ("Re: support for merged /usr in Debian"):
>> What will kill Debian faster than anything else is to have every idea
>> for changing something large, interesting, or possibly revolutionary in
>> Debian be met with anger, d
Russ Allbery writes ("Re: support for merged /usr in Debian"):
> What will kill Debian faster than anything else is to have every idea for
> changing something large, interesting, or possibly revolutionary in Debian
> be met with anger, derision, and attacks.
I know you are en
Le 8 janvier 2016 23:54:41 GMT+01:00, m...@linux.it a écrit :
>On Jan 08, Robert Edmonds wrote:
>
>> If it really does need to do MD5, maybe it could use the one in
>libbsd0
>> instead of dragging in libgnutls-openssl27 and its dependencies.
>I did not notice this recent addition...
>Folks, ther
On Sat, Jan 9, 2016 at 7:14 PM, Neil Williams wrote:
> Rather a critical element has been snipped there, Paul, sadly.
Thanks for pointing out my error, sorry for the noise.
--
bye,
pabs
https://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise
On Sat, 9 Jan 2016 18:32:28 +0800
Paul Wise wrote:
Rather a critical element has been snipped there, Paul, sadly.
On Fri, 8 Jan 2016 15:42:07 +, Niels Thykier
wrote:
> Given the latter half of our
>freeze tends to involve mostly frustration, fragmentation of developers
>and very few bug fix
On Fri, Jan 08, 2016 at 07:09:59PM +0100, Marc Haber wrote:
> On Fri, 8 Jan 2016 17:54:49 +, Jonathan McDowell
> wrote:
> >You're not communicating clearly and this is indeed causing problems
> >in this thread. You said "all my clients run unstable", not "all my
> >client machines run unstable
On Sat, Jan 9, 2016 at 1:41 AM, Marc Haber wrote:
> Yes, I have heard your (it was you, wasn't it) talk in Heidelberg. I
> took with me that you plan to adopt a "once you're out of testing,
> you're out of stable for the next release, unless you're really really
> important" policy for stretch, wh
On Fri, Jan 08, 2016 at 01:31:12PM -0800, Russ Allbery wrote:
> What will kill Debian faster than anything else is to have every idea for
> changing something large, interesting, or possibly revolutionary in Debian
> be met with anger, derision, and attacks.
Hear, hear. I snipped out the rest of R
On Jan 08, Robert Edmonds wrote:
> If it really does need to do MD5, maybe it could use the one in libbsd0
> instead of dragging in libgnutls-openssl27 and its dependencies.
I did not notice this recent addition...
Folks, there is *a lot* of software which embeds copies of md5.c: please
try to c
On Jan 08 2016, Tobias Frost wrote:
> Am Freitag, den 08.01.2016, 09:14 -0800 schrieb Nikolaus Rath:
>> Debian is developed by its developers, not by its users. Do you have
>> any evidence (other than your opinion) that loss of users would cause
>> loss of development work?
>
>
> Our priorities a
Svante Signell writes:
> No you are not. Debian following the commercial vendor track will make
> them extinguished. Technically there are no real advantages of the new
> (in many youngsters mind revolutionary) ideas. The idea of a Debian
> Universal Operating System, supporting Free Software (no
Simon McVittie wrote:
> 0m24.5s DEBUG: Starting command: ['adequate', '--root',
> '/srv/piuparts.debian.org/tmp/tmpk5ZNdX', 'iputils-ping']
> 0m24.6s DUMP:
> iputils-ping: bin-or-sbin-binary-requires-usr-lib-library /bin/ping6
> => /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libgnutls-openssl.so.27
>
> I don't kn
Am Freitag, den 08.01.2016, 09:14 -0800 schrieb Nikolaus Rath:
>
> Debian is developed by its developers, not by its users. Do you have
> any
> evidence (other than your opinion) that loss of users would cause
> loss
> of development work?
Our priorities are our users and free software
We will
On Fri, 2016-01-08 at 19:15 +0100, Marc Haber wrote:
> Quite some developers are getting paid to be Debian users or by
> Debian
> users. We participate in Debian because it makes using Debian easier
> for the people who pay us.On Fri, 08 Jan 2016 09:14:45 -0800,
> Nikolaus Rath
>
>
> If these u
On Fri, 2016-01-08 at 09:14 -0800, Nikolaus Rath wrote:
> On Jan 08 2016, Svante Signell wrote:
> > The problem is that with Debian heading down this road, the Debian
> > GNU/Linux distribution will not exist in 5 years from now.
>
> Debian is developed by its developers, not by its users. Do yo
On Fri, 8 Jan 2016 18:37:11 +0100, Christian Seiler
wrote:
>On 01/08/2016 10:21 AM, Marc Haber wrote:
>> If hundreds of megabytes of software would get moved from /usr to /,
>> this would certainly overflow my root file systems.
>
>That is not what is going to happen. Nobody ever proposed that. I
On Fri, 8 Jan 2016 18:51:20 +0100, Christian Seiler
wrote:
>(Warning: not thoroughly tested, code is a quick hack and awful, might
>do unexpected things. Also not documented. Quick howto: run make, copy
>systemd-keyscript-cryptsetup to /lib/cryptsetup/, copy keyscript-generator
>to /lib/systemd/sy
On Fri, 08 Jan 2016 09:14:45 -0800, Nikolaus Rath
wrote:
>On Jan 08 2016, Svante Signell wrote:
>> The problem is that with Debian heading down this road, the Debian GNU/Linux
>> distribution will not exist in 5 years from now.
>
>Debian is developed by its developers, not by its users. Do you ha
On Fri, 8 Jan 2016 17:54:49 +, Jonathan McDowell
wrote:
>You're not communicating clearly and this is indeed causing problems in
>this thread. You said "all my clients run unstable", not "all my client
>machines run unstable". You've also later said "I've not installed any
>new Debian systems
On Fri, Jan 08, 2016 at 06:38:05PM +0100, Marc Haber wrote:
> On Fri, 8 Jan 2016 15:01:53 +, Jonathan Dowland
> wrote:
> >and since you are running sid anyway, it wouldn't even help you, so
> >I'm puzzled why you suggested it.
>
> You obviously don't see the difference between a customer, a c
On 01/08/2016 09:50 AM, Marc Haber wrote:
> The loss of keyscript just broke my clients.
I had an inspiration earlier and hacked this together:
https://gist.github.com/chris-se/9c0def7dca60d023d188
(Warning: not thoroughly tested, code is a quick hack and awful, might
do unexpected things. Also n
On Fri, 8 Jan 2016 15:42:07 +, Niels Thykier
wrote:
> Given the latter half of our
>freeze tends to involve mostly frustration, fragmentation of developers
>and very few bug fixes, I am personally one of the people, who would
>like to see Debian have shorter freezes[1].
Yes, I have heard your
On Fri, 8 Jan 2016 15:01:53 +, Jonathan Dowland
wrote:
>and since you are running sid anyway, it wouldn't even help you, so I'm puzzled
>why you suggested it.
You obviously don't see the difference between a customer, a client
machine and a server. This might be a matter of language, so I'll
On 01/08/2016 10:21 AM, Marc Haber wrote:
> On Mon, 4 Jan 2016 13:38:15 +0100, Christian Seiler
> wrote:
>> On 01/04/2016 11:41 AM, Marc Haber wrote:
>>> We have already shown how "much" we care about the users of non-Linux
>>> kernels in Debian ("not at all, they can happily go fishing").
>>
>> S
On Jan 08 2016, Svante Signell wrote:
> On Thu, 2016-01-07 at 22:46 +0100, Philip Hands wrote:
>> Marc Haber writes:
>>
>> > On Tue, 5 Jan 2016 19:37:03 +0100, Marco d'Itri wrote:
>> > > On Jan 05, Ian Jackson wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > People who have been using a configuration for many years na
Marc Haber:
> Debian has already been forked by people who found Debian's release
> cycles too long. The result is called Ubuntu, and we lost many of the
> users (and developers!) who want shorter release cycles to them.
>
> Now, we aim for shorter release cycles ourselves, which won't bring
> any
On Fri, Jan 08, 2016 at 11:18:41AM +0100, Stephan Seitz wrote:
> Wrong. You have a wrapper package that adds grml iso from /boot/grml to the
> grub.cfg. You have to download the grml images yourself and you need the
> space to save the images in /boot/grml.
Thanks for explaining: I was under the m
On Fri, Jan 08, 2016 at 03:13:12PM +0100, Marc Haber wrote:
> All _my_ clients run unstable anyway
I'll leave the obvious response here to others.
But, what I find odd about this is you've suggested that there should be a
*multi-release* transition for a change like this, more than once in the
th
On Fri, 8 Jan 2016 13:04:16 +, Riku Voipio
wrote:
>On Fri, Jan 08, 2016 at 09:50:56AM +0100, Marc Haber wrote:
>> The loss of keyscript just broke my clients. I am really afraid of the
>> first system update breaking my _servers_, causing a resinstall to be
>> necessary. I know of one customer
On Fri, 8 Jan 2016 14:24:52 +0100, Christian Seiler
wrote:
> - Instead it was proposed to use password agents (see [1]) for this.
>
> - Problem with that is that the password agents don't support
> arbitrary binary data, which is needed for keys (they only support
> plain text).
And there is
Riku Voipio:
> On Fri, Jan 08, 2016 at 09:50:56AM +0100, Marc Haber wrote:
>> The loss of keyscript just broke my clients. I am really afraid of the
>> first system update breaking my _servers_, causing a resinstall to be
>> necessary. I know of one customer who already said that if a reinstall
>>
On Fri, Jan 08, 2016 at 09:50:56AM +0100, Marc Haber wrote:
> The loss of keyscript just broke my clients. I am really afraid of the
> first system update breaking my _servers_, causing a resinstall to be
> necessary. I know of one customer who already said that if a reinstall
> will become necessa
On 01/08/2016 12:53 PM, Marco d'Itri wrote:
> On Jan 08, Marc Haber wrote:
>
>> important functionality maked as "broken", "obsolete" and eventually
>> removed, just as the keyscript= feature of /etc/crypttab was lost a
>> year ago (noone cared).
> Let's be clear here: nobody cared enough to impl
On Fri, 08 Jan 2016 21:20:21 +1100, Brian May wrote:
>Marc Haber writes:
>> Keep support for things that used to work for, say, at least three or
>> four stable releases, document that and commit to it. And, of course,
>> stick to it.
>
>So at approx 2 years per stable release, that would be arou
On Fri, 8 Jan 2016 10:32:03 +0100, Andrew Shadura
wrote:
>Marc, please re-read the whole thread from the very beginning. Nobody
>forces merged /usr on you.
Enough trust has been lost in the past years that I'd like to have a
commitment for that. Write it down, and I'm fine.
Greetings
Marc
--
--
On Fri, 8 Jan 2016 12:53:43 +0100, m...@linux.it (Marco d'Itri) wrote:
>On Jan 08, Marc Haber wrote:
>> important functionality maked as "broken", "obsolete" and eventually
>> removed, just as the keyscript= feature of /etc/crypttab was lost a
>> year ago (noone cared).
>Let's be clear here: nobod
On Fri, 8 Jan 2016 09:44:17 +0100, Christian Seiler
wrote:
>On 01/08/2016 09:41 AM, Marc Haber wrote:
>> On Wed, 06 Jan 2016 00:03:31 +0100, Philipp Kern
>> wrote:
>>> On 2016-01-04 11:30, Marc Haber wrote:
On Sun, 3 Jan 2016 22:30:24 +0100, Eric Valette
wrote:
> System admins do l
On Fri, Jan 08, 2016 at 11:49:48AM +0100, Michael Prokop wrote:
We've an open wishlist bug report for the "download the Grml ISO"
part (#754393) which we plan to resolve soonish, jfyi.
Ah, thank you very much. That still leaves the space problem. Only my
newer systems where I knew that I wante
On Jan 08, Marc Haber wrote:
> important functionality maked as "broken", "obsolete" and eventually
> removed, just as the keyscript= feature of /etc/crypttab was lost a
> year ago (noone cared).
Let's be clear here: nobody cared enough to implement it.
It was clearly explained by the upstream ma
* Ian Campbell [Fri Jan 08, 2016 at 10:22:01AM +]:
> On Fri, 2016-01-08 at 10:11 +, Jonathan Dowland wrote:
> > On Fri, Jan 08, 2016 at 10:21:00AM +0100, Marc Haber wrote:
> > > The upside of this is that this will free up space in / which will be
> > > needed for a dedicated recovery imag
On Fri, 2016-01-08 at 10:11 +, Jonathan Dowland wrote:
> On Fri, Jan 08, 2016 at 10:21:00AM +0100, Marc Haber wrote:
> > The upside of this is that this will free up space in / which will be
> > needed for a dedicated recovery image. Too bad that we don't have such
> > a thing ourselves and hav
* Stephan Seitz [Fri Jan 08, 2016 at 11:18:41AM +0100]:
> On Fri, Jan 08, 2016 at 10:11:07AM +, Jonathan Dowland wrote:
> >grml is packaged and is an apt-get away. It's third-party in just the
> >same way that the linux kernel, or exim are.
> Wrong. You have a wrapper package that adds grml is
Marc Haber writes:
> Keep support for things that used to work for, say, at least three or
> four stable releases, document that and commit to it. And, of course,
> stick to it.
So at approx 2 years per stable release, that would be around 6 to 8
years before we could get this optional change in
On Fri, Jan 08, 2016 at 10:11:07AM +, Jonathan Dowland wrote:
grml is packaged and is an apt-get away. It's third-party in just the
same way that the linux kernel, or exim are.
Wrong. You have a wrapper package that adds grml iso from /boot/grml to
the grub.cfg. You have to download the gr
On Fri, Jan 08, 2016 at 08:16:06AM +0100, Svante Signell wrote:
> The problem is that with Debian heading down this road, the Debian GNU/Linux
> distribution will not exist in 5 years from now. You will make yourselves
> extinct due to the competition from commercial alternatives.
You greatly over
On Fri, Jan 08, 2016 at 10:21:00AM +0100, Marc Haber wrote:
> The upside of this is that this will free up space in / which will be
> needed for a dedicated recovery image. Too bad that we don't have such
> a thing ourselves and have to recommend third-party products like grml
grml is packaged and
On Tue, 5 Jan 2016 02:07:35 +0100, Christian Seiler
wrote:
>On 01/05/2016 01:34 AM, Marc Haber wrote:
>> On Mon, 4 Jan 2016 22:21:06 +0100, Iustin Pop
>> wrote:
>>> On 2016-01-04 12:03:07, Marc Haber wrote:
On Sun, 3 Jan 2016 19:15:18 +0100, m...@linux.it (Marco d'Itri) wrote:
> Anyway,
On Mon, 4 Jan 2016 14:15:21 +0100, Christian Seiler
wrote:
>On 01/04/2016 11:44 AM, Marc Haber wrote:
>> On Sun, 3 Jan 2016 21:35:39 +0100, Christian Seiler
>> wrote:
>>> So that was the state in February of 2011, when the warning was added
>>> to systemd and the systemd developers recommended th
On 8 January 2016 at 10:21, Marc Haber wrote:
>>So let's say you installed lenny and had 512 MiB for / (with separate
>>/usr) because you thought back then that it was more than enough (more
>>than double the installed size) - and upgrade to Jessie will either run
>>out of disk space or come very
On Mon, 4 Jan 2016 13:38:15 +0100, Christian Seiler
wrote:
>On 01/04/2016 11:41 AM, Marc Haber wrote:
>> On Sun, 03 Jan 2016 13:28:14 -0800, Russ Allbery
>> wrote:
>>> I do understand why people working in the embedded space care about some
>>> unusual mount orderings, file system separations, an
]] Christian Seiler
> On 01/08/2016 09:41 AM, Marc Haber wrote:
> > On Wed, 06 Jan 2016 00:03:31 +0100, Philipp Kern
> > wrote:
> >> On 2016-01-04 11:30, Marc Haber wrote:
> >>> On Sun, 3 Jan 2016 22:30:24 +0100, Eric Valette
> >>> wrote:
> System admins do like using absolute path
>
On Mon, 4 Jan 2016 13:51:48 +0100, Christian Seiler
wrote:
>On 01/04/2016 12:15 PM, Marc Haber wrote:
>> On Mon, 04 Jan 2016 12:01:46 +0100, Ansgar Burchardt
>>> Remember that / and /usr don't have to reside on the same partition with
>>> the usrmerge proposal: they only have to be both available
On 01/08/2016 09:41 AM, Marc Haber wrote:
> On Wed, 06 Jan 2016 00:03:31 +0100, Philipp Kern
> wrote:
>> On 2016-01-04 11:30, Marc Haber wrote:
>>> On Sun, 3 Jan 2016 22:30:24 +0100, Eric Valette
>>> wrote:
System admins do like using absolute path
for security reasons...
>>> Please als
On Wed, 06 Jan 2016 00:03:31 +0100, Philipp Kern
wrote:
>On 2016-01-04 11:30, Marc Haber wrote:
>> On Sun, 3 Jan 2016 22:30:24 +0100, Eric Valette
>> wrote:
>>> System admins do like using absolute path
>>> for security reasons...
>> Please also notice that this is the only option for ExecStart i
On 08/01/16 03:03, Marco d'Itri wrote:
> It has been said that some have[citation needed] crappy boot loaders
> that do not support loading an initramfs, but you can still embed one in
> the kernel binary if you are building your own kernel
... and you'd need to build your own kernel on these pl
On Thu, 07 Jan 2016 14:48:56 -0800, Russ Allbery
wrote:
>Marc Haber writes:
>> Unfortunately, it's emotions that take vendor decisions. Your attitude
>> is driving big users towards the paid-for Enterprise Linuxes, be it
>> logical or not, be it good engineering or not.
>
>...the ones that have a
On Thu, 2016-01-07 at 22:46 +0100, Philip Hands wrote:
> Marc Haber writes:
>
> > On Tue, 5 Jan 2016 19:37:03 +0100, Marco d'Itri wrote:
> > > On Jan 05, Ian Jackson wrote:
> > >
> > > > People who have been using a configuration for many years naturally
> > > > become upset when they are told
On Jan 08, Paul Wise wrote:
> The idea was for those who don't want an initramfs or can't use an
> initramfs (someone mentioned some Debian platforms can't) but still
All platforms can use an initramfs.
It has been said that some have[citation needed] crappy boot loaders
that do not support load
On Fri, Jan 8, 2016 at 7:16 AM, Simon McVittie wrote:
> I really don't think that's a good approach, particularly as a default.
> We already have tools to make a minimal bootable environment that can
> mount /usr and do some limited recovery, and the result is called an
> initramfs. If you want a
On 07/01/16 08:36, Paul Wise wrote:
> $something should
> automatically manage the contents of /bin /sbin /lib (/boot?) based on
> the tools needed to mount /usr (perhaps plus some more recovery
> tools)
I really don't think that's a good approach, particularly as a default.
We already have tools
Marc Haber writes:
> Unfortunately, it's emotions that take vendor decisions. Your attitude
> is driving big users towards the paid-for Enterprise Linuxes, be it
> logical or not, be it good engineering or not.
...the ones that have already merged /usr and /?
I'm not sure I understand this reas
Marc Haber writes:
> On Tue, 5 Jan 2016 19:37:03 +0100, Marco d'Itri wrote:
>>On Jan 05, Ian Jackson wrote:
>>
>>> People who have been using a configuration for many years naturally
>>> become upset when they are told that it has been `unsupported' for all
>>> of this time and that, implicitly
On Tue, 5 Jan 2016 19:37:03 +0100, Marco d'Itri wrote:
>On Jan 05, Ian Jackson wrote:
>
>> People who have been using a configuration for many years naturally
>> become upset when they are told that it has been `unsupported' for all
>> of this time and that, implicitly, changes are going to be ma
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