On 01/09/2012 04:08 PM, Raphael Geissert wrote:
> Leaving aside use cases, workarounds (ugly hacks, I would call them), etc...
>
> I personally believe those dependencies are incorrect. In the past, when I
> had the chance, I often explained to the corresponding maintainer why they
> were incorre
On 2012-01-10, Milan P. Stanic wrote:
> Ubuntu, which was intended for desktop already have server variant and I
> can't see a reason why Debian couldn't have something like that, i.e.
> variant for unexperienced users and another one for servers.
There is no server variant, or at least I wouldn'
On Fri, 2012-01-06 at 23:49, Daniel Baumann wrote:
> On 01/06/2012 02:46 PM, Milan P. Stanic wrote:
> > live with the idea that Debian must be usable for everyone in the
> > world (which is impossible, IMHO) but that's the life.
>
> at least debian is equally bad for everyone/everything, having al
On 01/07/2012 05:11 PM, Tollef Fog Heen wrote:
Having, say, mediawiki, ask using debconf if you would like a vhost set
up with the host name wiki.$domain would be completely sane, IMO. If
you don't want it, just tell the config script no.
i thouhg it would be implicitly clear that if the user
Thomas Goirand wrote:
[...]
> The issue is that most PHP packages in Debian have dependencies on web
> servers, most of the time with something like this:
>
> Depends: apache2 | httpd, libapache2-mod-php5 | php5-cgi
Leaving aside use cases, workarounds (ugly hacks, I would call them), etc...
I p
On 12-01-07 at 11:33am, Russ Allbery wrote:
> Jonas Smedegaard writes:
> > On 12-01-07 at 09:42am, Russ Allbery wrote:
>
> >> I'm not sure that it really violates Policy, mostly because we
> >> don't have any Policy guidance about web applications at all right
> >> now. But I think it's fairly
Jonas Smedegaard writes:
> On 12-01-07 at 09:42am, Russ Allbery wrote:
>> I'm not sure that it really violates Policy, mostly because we don't
>> have any Policy guidance about web applications at all right now. But
>> I think it's fairly obvious that it's not a sane thing to do to camp on
>> a
On 12-01-07 at 09:42am, Russ Allbery wrote:
> Jonas Smedegaard writes:
> > On 12-01-07 at 09:15am, Russ Allbery wrote:
> >> Tollef Fog Heen writes:
> >>> ]] Daniel Baumann
> >>
> it's not policy incompliant if e.g. php5 would install
> /etc/apache2/sites-enabled/whatever containing a
Jonas Smedegaard writes:
> On 12-01-07 at 09:15am, Russ Allbery wrote:
>> Tollef Fog Heen writes:
>>> ]] Daniel Baumann
>>
it's not policy incompliant if e.g. php5 would install
/etc/apache2/sites-enabled/whatever containing a virtualhost
definition. the reason why nobody woul
On 12-01-07 at 09:15am, Russ Allbery wrote:
> Tollef Fog Heen writes:
> > ]] Daniel Baumann
>
> >> it's not policy incompliant if e.g. php5 would install
> >> /etc/apache2/sites-enabled/whatever containing a virtualhost
> >> definition. the reason why nobody would do that, is, that it's
> >>
Tollef Fog Heen writes:
> ]] Daniel Baumann
>> it's not policy incompliant if e.g. php5 would install
>> /etc/apache2/sites-enabled/whatever containing a virtualhost
>> definition. the reason why nobody would do that, is, that it's just
>> wrong and unreasonable to do such a thing (where e.g. a
]] Daniel Baumann
> it's not policy incompliant if e.g. php5 would install
> /etc/apache2/sites-enabled/whatever containing a virtualhost definition.
> the reason why nobody would do that, is, that it's just wrong and
> unreasonable to do such a thing (where e.g. aliases and directory
> directive
On Sat, Jan 07, 2012 at 12:34:24PM +0100, Bastian Blank wrote:
> On Fri, Jan 06, 2012 at 03:19:21PM +0100, Mathieu Parent wrote:
> > Because ruby has an embedded web server (webrick), so it doesn't
> > require one (but it is better for performance and more).
>
> PHP also got one recently.
Right.
On Fri, Jan 06, 2012 at 03:19:21PM +0100, Mathieu Parent wrote:
> Because ruby has an embedded web server (webrick), so it doesn't
> require one (but it is better for performance and more).
PHP also got one recently.
Bastian
--
Change is the essential process of all existence.
-
On 01/06/2012 02:46 PM, Milan P. Stanic wrote:
> live with the idea that Debian must be usable for everyone in the
> world (which is impossible, IMHO) but that's the life.
at least debian is equally bad for everyone/everything, having almost no
worst cases by itself, already is quite a good thing,
On 01/06/2012 11:06 AM, Thomas Goirand wrote:
> That's what I don't get! I think using a remote MySQL is as uncommon as
> a chrooted CGI environment. [...] we should apply the same reasoning to the
> MySQL
> server. There's no logic at all here.
i beg to differ.
web applications that use mysql (
On 01/06/2012 06:43 PM, Thomas Goirand wrote:
How many of these packages do clever things upon installation like
setup their own virtual hosts or similar?
>>> None, because that's forbidden by the Debian policy.
>>>
>> Where is that forbidden?
>
> Sorry, I don't want to
On 01/07/2012 12:33 AM, Tollef Fog Heen wrote:
>> On 01/06/2012 04:34 PM, Neil Williams wrote:
>>
>>> It depends which is more common
>>>
>> I don't see why we would steer on the direction of the most common
>> thing only. What we want is something that works all the time, no?
>> If we
]] Thomas Goirand
> On 01/06/2012 04:34 PM, Neil Williams wrote:
> > It depends which is more common
>
> I don't see why we would steer on the direction of the most common
> thing only. What we want is something that works all the time, no?
> If we remote the web server dependency, it works all
On Fri, Jan 06, 2012 at 10:12:15AM +0100, Miroslav Suchy wrote:
> >Depends: apache2 | httpd, libapache2-mod-php5 | php5-cgi
>
> I would not say that your chroot setup is typical. Or common. I would
> suggest creating your own empty apache2 package with version , which you
> will install in th
On 06/01/2012 15:19, Mathieu Parent wrote:
> 2012/1/6 Olivier Bonvalet :
>> Le 06/01/2012 08:56, Thomas Goirand a écrit :
>>
>> For info, web apps which are not in PHP like redmine which use Ruby doesn't
>> depend of apache2 or any other http server.
>> So why should we depends of it for PHP apps o
2012/1/6 Olivier Bonvalet :
> Le 06/01/2012 08:56, Thomas Goirand a écrit :
>
> For info, web apps which are not in PHP like redmine which use Ruby doesn't
> depend of apache2 or any other http server.
> So why should we depends of it for PHP apps only ?
Because ruby has an embedded web server (we
On Fri, 2012-01-06 at 20:45, Thomas Goirand wrote:
[...]
> This is why I think the solution of moving apache2 | http as
> a Recommends: is a good compromise.
>
> Never mind, it seems there's more people against my idea
> than some thinking it was a smart one, so I'll hack with equivs
> (which I di
On 01/06/2012 06:47 PM, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote:
> On Fri, Jan 06, 2012 at 06:15:36PM +0800, Thomas Goirand wrote:
>
>> Then please explain to me how I can install let's say wordpress, in a
>> chroot (and of course, without apache), without doing some hacks! Yes,
>> wordpress is FORCING ME to i
On 01/06/2012 07:07 PM, Olivier Bonvalet wrote:
> Le 06/01/2012 08:56, Thomas Goirand a écrit :
>>
>> The issue is that most PHP packages in Debian have dependencies on web
>> servers, most of the time with something like this:
>>
>> Depends: apache2 | httpd, libapache2-mod-php5 | php5-cgi
>>
>
> F
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On 06.01.2012 12:07, Olivier Bonvalet wrote:
> For info, web apps which are not in PHP like redmine which use Ruby
> doesn't depend of apache2 or any other http server.
> So why should we depends of it for PHP apps only ?
And as a third example: trac
Thomas Goirand, 2012-01-06 18:06:35 +0800 :
[...]
> That's what I don't get! I think using a remote MySQL is as uncommon
> as a chrooted CGI environment.
>From what I've seen of various clients' systems, it isn't. The web
server is often isolated not in a chroot but in a separate host (whether
Le 06/01/2012 08:56, Thomas Goirand a écrit :
The issue is that most PHP packages in Debian have dependencies on web
servers, most of the time with something like this:
Depends: apache2 | httpd, libapache2-mod-php5 | php5-cgi
For info, web apps which are not in PHP like redmine which use Rub
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Hi,
On 06.01.2012 10:12, Tanguy Ortolo wrote:
> The database server used by a given piece of software can be installed
> on another system. The Web server cannot.
Actually it can. Many modern webservers, including one I am maintaining
support CGI off
On 01/06/2012 05:12 PM, Tanguy Ortolo wrote:
> Thomas Goirand, 2012-01-06 08:56+0100:
>
>> Also, it's very surprising to see that we have dependencies for web
>> servers, but most of the time *not* for mysql-server, which is as much
>> needed in order to run these applications. I really don't un
On 01/06/2012 05:12 PM, Miroslav Suchy wrote:
> On 01/06/2012 08:56 AM, Thomas Goirand wrote:
>> The issue is that most PHP packages in Debian have dependencies on web
>> servers, most of the time with something like this:
>>
>> Depends: apache2 | httpd, libapache2-mod-php5 | php5-cgi
>
> I would n
On 01/06/2012 04:34 PM, Neil Williams wrote:
> It depends which is more common
I don't see why we would steer on the direction of the most common
thing only. What we want is something that works all the time, no?
If we remote the web server dependency, it works all the time.
Don't you think that
On 01/06/2012 08:56 AM, Thomas Goirand wrote:
The issue is that most PHP packages in Debian have dependencies on web
servers, most of the time with something like this:
Depends: apache2 | httpd, libapache2-mod-php5 | php5-cgi
I would not say that your chroot setup is typical. Or common.
I woul
Thomas Goirand, 2012-01-06 08:56+0100:
> Also, it's very surprising to see that we have dependencies for web
> servers, but most of the time *not* for mysql-server, which is as much
> needed in order to run these applications. I really don't understand the
> logic behind this.
The database server
On Fri, Jan 6, 2012 at 16:34, Neil Williams wrote:
> On Fri, 06 Jan 2012 15:56:37 +0800
> Thomas Goirand wrote:
>
>> The issue is that most PHP packages in Debian have dependencies on web
>> servers, most of the time with something like this:
>>
>> Depends: apache2 | httpd, libapache2-mod-php5 |
On Fri, 06 Jan 2012 15:56:37 +0800
Thomas Goirand wrote:
> The issue is that most PHP packages in Debian have dependencies on web
> servers, most of the time with something like this:
>
> Depends: apache2 | httpd, libapache2-mod-php5 | php5-cgi
Sounds like the situation for which equivs was des
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