On Mon, Nov 17, 2003 at 08:07:35PM +, Jonathan Dowland wrote:
> Torvalds' position is that code that cannot be expressed using
> 8-spaces-per-indent and wrap at 79 characters needs to be rewritten.
Who is Thorvalds?
SCNR
Balu
/* vim: set expandtab tabstop=4 shiftwidth=4 softtabstop=4
I demand that Steve Lamb may or may not have written...
[snip]
> if foo
> bar
> else
> baz
fi
--
| Darren Salt | linux (or ds) at | nr. Ashington,
| woody, sarge, | youmustbejoking | Northumberland
| RISC OS | demon co uk | Toon Army
| Let's keep the pound sterling
Julian Mehnle wrote:
I call that readable, but I guess somebody won't. ;-)
Actually it is quite readable and sensible in that it breaks down the
regex into parts that a human can read. Oh, and the equivolant would be legal
in Python. Which was kind of my point on asking H.S. the two questio
On Mon, Nov 17, 2003 at 06:02:40PM -0800, Tom wrote:
> If whitespace mistakes are always caught at compile-time, then I
> probably wouldn't care about them either. So I'm not bashing python;
> having never used it: I'm bashing languages where syntatic mistakes
> are not caught at compile-time. I
Just like to thank everybody for their opinions.
I think that I've probably got enough to think about for now.
Aside from the recommendations for languages and editors, the idea of
learning multiple languages to gain more comprehensive expression for
programming concepts, and also learning an initi
On Mon, Nov 17, 2003 at 08:49:31PM -0500, H. S. Teoh wrote:
> Modal editors are Pure Evil(tm).
>
> ;-)
But modeless editors are toys ;-)
Hamish
--
Hamish Moffatt VK3SB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
On Tue, Nov 18, 2003 at 11:55:01AM +0100, Julian Mehnle wrote:
| Steve Lamb wrote:
| > 2: Can you provide an example of such free-style coding that you speak
| > so highly of?
|
| # Split header into separate header lines, dropping any unneeded or
| # spurious header lines:
| @header_lines = grep(
Steve Lamb wrote:
> 2: Can you provide an example of such free-style coding that you speak
> so highly of?
# Split header into separate header lines, dropping any unneeded or
# spurious header lines:
@header_lines = grep(
(
/^(?:
# Wanted headers:
X-Spam-Status
On Tue, 18 Nov 2003 07:08 pm, Wouter Verhelst wrote:
> Fact is, Python uses the concept of significant whitespace, which a lot
> of us simply don't like. That's a personal opinion, and in most cases
> probably not a rational thing, so providing arguments won't help. Can we
> cut this thread here, p
On Mon, Nov 17, 2003 at 11:08:44PM -0600, Gunnar Wolf wrote:
> H. S. Teoh dijo [Mon, Nov 17, 2003 at 08:47:27PM -0500]:
> > > >*chalks up one more reason to avoid Python like the plague...*
> > >
> > > Uh, care to rewrite that since Python is now on 2.3 and 1.5.2 is
> > > several years ol
* Steve Greenland ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> To clarify: AFAICT, Python is perfectly happy with any sort of
> indentation you choose, so long as it's consistent in any given block.
> You want to use '', fine. Just don't try to mix it
> with '' in the same block.
>
> As a practical matter, since
Steve Lamb dijo [Mon, Nov 17, 2003 at 05:40:18PM -0800]:
> Python's diametrically opposed philosophy is much better. There should
> ideally be only one obvious way to do something. With that in mind the
> language itself is much smaller. Concepts are tied to one, maybe two
> syntax. So in
H. S. Teoh dijo [Mon, Nov 17, 2003 at 08:47:27PM -0500]:
> > >*chalks up one more reason to avoid Python like the plague...*
> >
> > Uh, care to rewrite that since Python is now on 2.3 and 1.5.2 is
> > several years old?
> [snip]
>
> That doesn't negate the fact that I find significant w
On Mon, Nov 17, 2003 at 08:49:31PM -0500, H. S. Teoh wrote:
> Modal editors are Pure Evil(tm).
Lies!
--
Glenn Maynard
:wq
Tom wrote:
Do whitespace mistakes cause compile time errors? The frustrating thing
about fortran was variable names that started with C could be
interpreted as comments not indented correctly, which would just cause
that line to be skipped. Integer literals not indented correctly could
be int
On Mon, Nov 17, 2003 at 05:53:54PM -0800, Steve Lamb wrote:
> Tom wrote:
> >Significant whitespace? Shudder, that brings back crusty old memories
> >of Fortran. I have great fondness for fortran because of the wonderful
> >mathematical algorithms in LinPack, but I have no fondness for
> >signi
H. S. Teoh wrote:
That doesn't negate the fact that I find significant whitespace rather
atrocious. I really rather use a language where I'm free to format the
code the way I want it, to maximally convey its meaning, rather than to be
forced to write it a certain way because some genius decided tha
Tom wrote:
Significant whitespace? Shudder, that brings back crusty old memories
of Fortran. I have great fondness for fortran because of the wonderful
mathematical algorithms in LinPack, but I have no fondness for
significant whitespace.
And? Does Fortran's rules map to Pythons? I often
One of these days I'll also learn how to proofread before I hit send...
Steve Lamb wrote:
decade of Wordstar-esque editors ending with joe. I have vi. I love
Hate, not have.
mode when you want to be in command mode. When in edit mode ESC costs
you nothing. It doesn't change modes. So
On Mon, Nov 17, 2003 at 05:47:22PM -0800, Steve Lamb wrote:
[snip]
> With that said let me give you the biggest hint on learning any vi
> variant: When in doubt, slap the ESC key. The commands and controls will
> come in time but all of that doesn't mean a thing if you're in edit mode
> whe
On Mon, Nov 17, 2003 at 05:14:04PM -0800, Steve Lamb wrote:
> H. S. Teoh wrote:
> >On Mon, Nov 17, 2003 at 02:29:52PM -0600, Chad Walstrom wrote:
[snip]
> >>Python did away with that requirement for scope in 2.x. If you want to
> >>use blank lines for code logic separation in python < 2.0, you mus
David Palmer wrote:
(2) Perl or Python. This seems to be another divided camp.
What are the capabilities of each? What are the applications of each?
Python and Perl have basically the same capabilities and applications as
the other. The major difference is Python doesn't look like warm-over
Gunnar Wolf wrote:
I strongly reccomend Perl. Why? Well, that's how I learnt (or more
properly, how I picked up after years of inactivity) programming (I
had only BASIC experience before that). Perl is a language meant to be
easy to write - Yes, your first code will probably not be very
maintainabl
On Mon, Nov 17, 2003 at 05:21:23PM -0800, Steve Lamb wrote:
> H. S. Teoh wrote:
> >On Mon, Nov 17, 2003 at 11:47:34AM -0600, Chad Walstrom wrote:
> >[snip]
>
> >>I have a love-hate relationship with the significant whitespace.
>
> >I have a hate-hate relationship with it. I much prefer free-style
H. S. Teoh wrote:
On Mon, Nov 17, 2003 at 11:47:34AM -0600, Chad Walstrom wrote:
[snip]
I have a love-hate relationship with the significant whitespace.
I have a hate-hate relationship with it. I much prefer free-style syntax
where the programmer is allowed to use his best judgment on how to inde
On Mon, Nov 17, 2003 at 01:17:10PM -0600, Gunnar Wolf wrote:
> I found Python to be a very nice, elegant language. I have not yet
> used it for any real project, but I am looking forward to give it a
> spin.
>
Agreed. I used Linda as an excuse to learn Python, and it helped me _really_
understand
H. S. Teoh wrote:
On Mon, Nov 17, 2003 at 02:29:52PM -0600, Chad Walstrom wrote:
On Mon, Nov 17, 2003 at 02:19:02PM -0500, H. S. Teoh wrote:
Also, as an off-topic note, blank lines that contain tabs or spaces
are Pure Evil(tm), especially in code. One of these days I should
write a sed script to
On Mon, Nov 17, 2003 at 02:29:52PM -0600, Chad Walstrom wrote:
> On Mon, Nov 17, 2003 at 02:19:02PM -0500, H. S. Teoh wrote:
> > Also, as an off-topic note, blank lines that contain tabs or spaces
> > are Pure Evil(tm), especially in code. One of these days I should
> > write a sed script to elimin
On Mon, Nov 17, 2003 at 08:07:35PM +, Jonathan Dowland wrote:
> On Mon, Nov 17, 2003 at 02:19:02PM -0500, H. S. Teoh wrote:
>
> > For personal pet projects, I use 2 spaces per nesting level. Some people
> > think that's Pure Evil(tm),
>
> Most noteably perhaps, Linus Torvalds, although...
>
On Mon, Nov 17, 2003 at 02:19:02PM -0500, H. S. Teoh wrote:
> Also, as an off-topic note, blank lines that contain tabs or spaces
> are Pure Evil(tm), especially in code. One of these days I should
> write a sed script to eliminate all incarnations of this Pure Evil(tm)
> from /usr/src.
Python did
On Mon, Nov 17, 2003 at 02:19:02PM -0500, H. S. Teoh wrote:
> For personal pet projects, I use 2 spaces per nesting level. Some people
> think that's Pure Evil(tm),
Most noteably perhaps, Linus Torvalds, although...
>although I fully agree with you about wasting
> screen real estate in 80 colu
On Mon, Nov 17, 2003 at 11:47:34AM -0600, Chad Walstrom wrote:
[snip]
> I have a love-hate relationship with the significant whitespace.
I have a hate-hate relationship with it. I much prefer free-style syntax
where the programmer is allowed to use his best judgment on how to indent
the code. Of c
Andrew M.A. Cater dijo [Sun, Nov 16, 2003 at 11:00:14PM +]:
> > (2) Perl or Python. This seems to be another divided camp.
> > What are the capabilities of each? What are the applications of each?
>
> Perl - wherever you used to use a shell script, consider Perl. Perl
> also has concepts from
ma, 2003-11-17 kello 18:49, Steve Greenland kirjoitti:
> To clarify: AFAICT, Python is perfectly happy with any sort of
> indentation you choose, so long as it's consistent in any given block.
> You want to use '', fine. Just don't try to mix it
> with '' in the same block.
This topic is rather of
On Sun, Nov 16, 2003 at 08:45:51PM +0800, David Palmer wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I thought that I might make a beginning at learning.
> I've searched the web, found information that goes beyond the definition
> of plethora, so I thought that I'd ask here.
>
> (1) What is the best language to start with
On Mon, Nov 17, 2003 at 11:13:59PM +0800, Cameron Patrick wrote:
> I believe that tabs aren't a problem with Python so long as they
> really do indent to a multiple of 8 spaces. Editors which interpret
> tabs differently are broken^W^W can cause problems when editing Python
> code with tabs and sp
On 17-Nov-03, 09:13 (CST), Cameron Patrick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Mon, Nov 17, 2003 at 08:49:03AM -0600, Steve Greenland wrote:
> | As a long-time C coder, I agreed with you. But after doing a small
> | python project, I was surprised at how quickly it became natural. It
> | does help to
On Mon, Nov 17, 2003 at 08:49:03AM -0600, Steve Greenland wrote:
| On 17-Nov-03, 05:15 (CST), Wouter Verhelst <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
| > I have one grudge against python, though: its mandated indentation looks
| > very ugly and unstructured to me. Kinda reminds me of COBOL (and boy, do
| > I h
On 17-Nov-03, 05:15 (CST), Wouter Verhelst <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I have one grudge against python, though: its mandated indentation looks
> very ugly and unstructured to me. Kinda reminds me of COBOL (and boy, do
> I have nightmares of having to write COBOL code at school)
As a long-time C
On Mon, Nov 17, 2003 at 03:27:29AM +0200, David Starner wrote:
> Pascal is traditional, but is seriously a toy language with at least a dozen
> different groups of compiler-specific extensions. Ada is my personal favorite,
Sure but if you pick one compiler you can get some work done. It's quite
a
Wouter Verhelst <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I have one grudge against python, though: its mandated indentation looks
> very ugly and unstructured to me. Kinda reminds me of COBOL (and boy, do
> I have nightmares of having to write COBOL code at school)
Well, I often heared about this argument, b
On Mon, Nov 17, 2003 at 12:15:45PM +0100, Wouter Verhelst wrote:
> Op zo 16-11-2003, om 16:44 schreef Chad Walstrom:
> > On Sun, Nov 16, 2003 at 08:45:51PM +0800, David Palmer wrote:
> > > I thought that I might make a beginning at learning. I've searched
> > > the web, found information that goes
Op zo 16-11-2003, om 16:44 schreef Chad Walstrom:
> On Sun, Nov 16, 2003 at 08:45:51PM +0800, David Palmer wrote:
> > I thought that I might make a beginning at learning. I've searched
> > the web, found information that goes beyond the definition of
> > plethora, so I thought that I'd ask here.
>
On Mon, Nov 17, 2003 at 03:36:05AM +, Scott James Remnant wrote:
> I learnt C++ first, then switched to C later. Am I The Only One?(tm)
No, that was the way it was taught at the University I've just managed to
escape from. Still managed to produce a really crap crop of programmers,
though.
On Mon, 2003-11-17 at 01:46, Eike Sauer wrote:
> Andrew M.A. Cater schrieb:
> > They may be right - but, as noted elsewhere, much C++ is written by
> > C programmers who don't necessarily use all the features of C++
> > anyway.
>
> ...so don't become one of those and learn C++ _first_.
>
I learn
Andrew M.A. Cater schrieb:
> They may be right - but, as noted elsewhere, much C++ is written by
> C programmers who don't necessarily use all the features of C++
> anyway.
...so don't become one of those and learn C++ _first_.
Ciao,
Eike
PS: I hope I got the message references r
This may be somewhat contraversal, but I wouldn't start with C or C++.
If you want to learn to program, start with something with bounds
checking and other safety guards. To be a serious programmer, you will
have to learn C and C++, but learning a programming language is only
a small part of learni
On Sun, Nov 16, 2003 at 08:45:51PM +0800, David Palmer wrote:
>
> I thought that I might make a beginning at learning.
Good call :)
> I've searched the web, found information that goes beyond the definition
> of plethora, so I thought that I'd ask here.
"Go not to Usenet - for you will be told Y
Thank you Paul, Chad, Wesley and Bernhard.
Regards,
David.
On Sun, Nov 16, 2003 at 08:45:51PM +0800, David Palmer wrote:
> I thought that I might make a beginning at learning. I've searched
> the web, found information that goes beyond the definition of
> plethora, so I thought that I'd ask here.
C is useful, stable, has a huge following. C++ is useful,
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