Re: Pre-Depends: init-system-helpers

Tollef Fog Heen wrote: > > Russ Allbery wrote: > > > Bob Proulx writes: > > > > Maybe I am missing a better alternative? > > > > > > update-rc.d disable > > > > No. That is too late. By the time you are disabling something it has > > already been installed and started in postinst scripts. Usi

Re: Pre-Depends: init-system-helpers

]] Bob Proulx > Russ Allbery wrote: > > Bob Proulx writes: > > > Maybe I am missing a better alternative? > > > > update-rc.d disable > > No. That is too late. By the time you are disabling something it has > already been installed and started in postinst scripts. Using > policy-rc.d is the

Re: Pre-Depends: init-system-helpers

Bastien ROUCARIES writes: > Le 19 nov. 2014 21:33, "Russ Allbery" a écrit : >> Yes, absolutely. Likewise for cron jobs, etc. That's something that I >> don't think we're doing a great job of right now, and really should >> improve. > Could lintian help here ? Yes, although it's tricky. If a

Re: Pre-Depends: init-system-helpers

Le 19 nov. 2014 21:33, "Russ Allbery" a écrit : > > Jonas Smedegaard writes: > > > Which implies, I believe, that any other way of starting daemons should > > also respect policy-rc.d if it can lead to automated triggering. > > > Example: if a logrotate snippet uses "update-rc.d force-restart ...

Re: Pre-Depends: init-system-helpers

Quoting Simon McVittie (2014-11-19 21:49:49) > On 19/11/14 19:41, Jonas Smedegaard wrote: >> Example: if a logrotate snippet uses "update-rc.d force-restart ..." >> then suppressing that deamon with policy-rc.d will be circumvented >> when cron triggers log rotation. > > If it uses "update-rc.d f

Re: Pre-Depends: init-system-helpers

Simon McVittie writes: > If you meant service, I think the answer is "that's a bug". service > intentionally doesn't respect "enabledness" either, under at least > sysvinit and systemd, so it's a bug even in the absence of policy-rc.d. Right, service is a tool for the local administrator. servi

Re: Pre-Depends: init-system-helpers

On 19/11/14 19:41, Jonas Smedegaard wrote: > Example: if a logrotate snippet uses "update-rc.d force-restart ..." > then suppressing that deamon with policy-rc.d will be circumvented when > cron triggers log rotation. If it uses "update-rc.d force-restart" then it will fail, because that isn't a

Re: Pre-Depends: init-system-helpers

Jonas Smedegaard writes: > Which implies, I believe, that any other way of starting daemons should > also respect policy-rc.d if it can lead to automated triggering. > Example: if a logrotate snippet uses "update-rc.d force-restart ..." > then suppressing that deamon with policy-rc.d will be c

Re: Pre-Depends: init-system-helpers

Quoting Russ Allbery (2014-11-19 19:28:09) > Bob Proulx writes: > > > No. That is too late. By the time you are disabling something it has > > already been installed and started in postinst scripts. Using > > policy-rc.d is the only way to prevent unknown anythings from being > > enabled befor

Re: Pre-Depends: init-system-helpers

Bob Proulx writes: > No. That is too late. By the time you are disabling something it has > already been installed and started in postinst scripts. Using > policy-rc.d is the only way to prevent unknown anythings from being > enabled before installing. Ah, yes, that's true. > P.S. Related to

Re: Pre-Depends: init-system-helpers

Russ Allbery wrote: > Bob Proulx writes: > > Maybe I am missing a better alternative? > > update-rc.d disable No. That is too late. By the time you are disabling something it has already been installed and started in postinst scripts. Using policy-rc.d is the only way to prevent unknown anyth

Re: Pre-Depends: init-system-helpers

On Tue, Nov 18, 2014, at 10:25, Simon McVittie wrote: > We already have a way to disable services, which knows about sysvinit, > systemd and Upstart despite its unfortunate name (update-rc.d). Perhaps we could provide an alternative name to this: f.e. init-maintscript-helper would reflect the inte

Re: Pre-Depends: init-system-helpers

On 18/11/14 02:02, Bob Proulx wrote: > Here it is said update-rc.d does not respect policy-rc.d but I think > maybe that should have been invoke-rc.d since update-rc.d just sets > things up to start while it is invoke-rc.d that actually does it. invoke-rc.d is the only thing that *does* respect po

Re: Pre-Depends: init-system-helpers

Bob Proulx writes: > Henrique de Moraes Holschuh wrote: >> Anthony Towns wrote: >>> Followup question: does anyone actually use the detailed features of >>> policy-rc.d or is always used in practice to turn all init scripts off? >> I think I heard of someone using them *once*. It is very rare,

Re: Pre-Depends: init-system-helpers

Henrique de Moraes Holschuh wrote: > Anthony Towns wrote: > > Russ Allbery wrote: > > > Anthony Towns writes: > > > > BTW, it occured to me that it seems like a wart that update-rc.d doesn't > > > > respect policy-rc.d -- as it stands, policy-rc.d can prevent a service > > > > from (re)starting dur

Re: Pre-Depends: init-system-helpers

On Mon, 17 Nov 2014, Russ Allbery wrote: > Henrique de Moraes Holschuh writes: > > I think I heard of someone using them *once*. It is very rare, AFAIK. > > > However, if there is one thing I learned the hard way, is that people > > who use the advanced features don't make themselves or that fac

Re: Pre-Depends: init-system-helpers

Henrique de Moraes Holschuh writes: > I think I heard of someone using them *once*. It is very rare, AFAIK. > However, if there is one thing I learned the hard way, is that people > who use the advanced features don't make themselves or that fact known > unless you ask. They often don't show u

Re: Pre-Depends: init-system-helpers

On Mon, 17 Nov 2014, Anthony Towns wrote: > On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 09:22:39AM -0800, Russ Allbery wrote: > > Anthony Towns writes: > > > BTW, it occured to me that it seems like a wart that update-rc.d doesn't > > > respect policy-rc.d -- as it stands, policy-rc.d can prevent a service > > > from

Re: Pre-Depends: init-system-helpers

On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 09:22:39AM -0800, Russ Allbery wrote: > Anthony Towns writes: > > BTW, it occured to me that it seems like a wart that update-rc.d doesn't > > respect policy-rc.d -- as it stands, policy-rc.d can prevent a service > > from (re)starting during install/upgrade, but it'll stil

Re: Pre-Depends: init-system-helpers

On Mon, 17 Nov 2014, Anthony Towns wrote: > On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 02:38:04PM -0200, Henrique de Moraes Holschuh wrote: > > On Mon, 17 Nov 2014, Anthony Towns wrote: > > > If deb-systemd-* were to get merged in, it might be worth doing a name > > > change at the same time, I guess. Changing either

Re: Pre-Depends: init-system-helpers

Am 2014-11-17 18:07, schrieb Anthony Towns: BTW, it occured to me that it seems like a wart that update-rc.d doesn't respect policy-rc.d -- as it stands, policy-rc.d can prevent a service from (re)starting during install/upgrade, but it'll still start on the next boot. Is that just something t

Re: Pre-Depends: init-system-helpers

Anthony Towns writes: > BTW, it occured to me that it seems like a wart that update-rc.d doesn't > respect policy-rc.d -- as it stands, policy-rc.d can prevent a service > from (re)starting during install/upgrade, but it'll still start on the > next boot. Is that just something that never got tho

Re: Pre-Depends: init-system-helpers

On 11/17/2014 10:36 PM, Anthony Towns wrote: > I wonder if it would make sense to just merge it all into the "service" > command; ie: > ># service --use-policy ssh start ># service --use-policy ssh restart ># service ssh enable ># service acpid.socket mask-for-upgrade > > in place

Re: Pre-Depends: init-system-helpers

On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 02:38:04PM -0200, Henrique de Moraes Holschuh wrote: > On Mon, 17 Nov 2014, Anthony Towns wrote: > > If deb-systemd-* were to get merged in, it might be worth doing a name > > change at the same time, I guess. Changing either before jessie doesn't > > seem remotely plausible

Re: Pre-Depends: init-system-helpers

On Mon, 17 Nov 2014, Anthony Towns wrote: > If deb-systemd-* were to get merged in, it might be worth doing a name > change at the same time, I guess. Changing either before jessie doesn't > seem remotely plausible. > > I wonder if it would make sense to just merge it all into the "service" > comm

Re: Pre-Depends: init-system-helpers

On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 10:10:58AM -0200, Henrique de Moraes Holschuh wrote: > On Mon, 17 Nov 2014, Anthony Towns wrote: > > Having a single tool that does the basic stuff admins and maintainers need > > independent of init system seems like the right approach to me. "*-rc.d" > > is a terrible name

Re: Pre-Depends: init-system-helpers

Hi, Henrique de Moraes Holschuh: > On Mon, 17 Nov 2014, Anthony Towns wrote: > > Having a single tool that does the basic stuff admins and maintainers need > > independent of init system seems like the right approach to me. "*-rc.d" > > is a terrible name for such a tool, though :( > > Err, yes.

Re: Pre-Depends: init-system-helpers

On Mon, 17 Nov 2014, Anthony Towns wrote: > Having a single tool that does the basic stuff admins and maintainers need > independent of init system seems like the right approach to me. "*-rc.d" > is a terrible name for such a tool, though :( Err, yes. There were complains about the -rc.d prefix w

Re: Pre-Depends: init-system-helpers

On Sun, Nov 16, 2014 at 01:43:37PM -0800, Steve Langasek wrote: > Can someone of the systemd maintainers please explain why this is being done > as a separate helper instead of integrating with the tools that are already > defined in policy and already part of the base system (e.g., invoke-rc.d)?

Re: Pre-Depends: init-system-helpers

Steve Langasek writes: > I am very concerned about the promulgation of init-system-helpers in > general. This helper package has started pulling bloated dependencies > into our base system (bug #757891), I think this is resolved. All of the Perl modules it required except for File::Temp and it

Re: Pre-Depends: init-system-helpers

On Sat, Nov 15, 2014 at 06:06:17PM +0100, Bastien ROUCARIES wrote: > In order to solve #769551 I need to Pre-Depends: init-system-helpers > Indeed preinst script need it: > /var/lib/dpkg/tmp.ci/preinst: 27: /var/lib/dpkg/tmp.ci/preinst: > deb-systemd-helper: not found > Thus I am asking to add a

Re: Pre-Depends: init-system-helpers

On 11/16/2014 05:14 AM, Bastien ROUCARIES wrote: > > Le 15 nov. 2014 19:18, "Bastian Blank" > a écrit : >> >> On Sat, Nov 15, 2014 at 06:06:17PM +0100, Bastien ROUCARIES wrote: >> > In order to solve #769551 I need to Pre-Depends: init-system-helpers >> > Indeed preinst s

Re: Pre-Depends: init-system-helpers

Le 15 nov. 2014 19:18, "Bastian Blank" a écrit : > > On Sat, Nov 15, 2014 at 06:06:17PM +0100, Bastien ROUCARIES wrote: > > In order to solve #769551 I need to Pre-Depends: init-system-helpers > > Indeed preinst script need it: > > /var/lib/dpkg/tmp.ci/preinst: 27: /var/lib/dpkg/tmp.ci/preinst: >

Re: Pre-Depends: init-system-helpers

On Sat, Nov 15, 2014 at 06:06:17PM +0100, Bastien ROUCARIES wrote: > In order to solve #769551 I need to Pre-Depends: init-system-helpers > Indeed preinst script need it: > /var/lib/dpkg/tmp.ci/preinst: 27: /var/lib/dpkg/tmp.ci/preinst: > deb-systemd-helper: not found Why do you need deb-systemd-h