On Wed, 29 May 2024 at 11:48, Lorenzo wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> socklog-run is a syslog daemon, it has no dependency on
> system-log-daemon
Yes the initial list had some false positives, it has been pruned when
filing and socklog-run is not part of it:
https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?users
On Tue, 28 May 2024 at 08:43, Guillem Jover wrote:
>
> Hi!
>
> On Tue, 2024-05-28 at 10:57:13 +0900, Simon Richter wrote:
> > On 5/27/24 22:18, Simon McVittie wrote:
> > > So I think your syslogd-is-journald could not be a Provides on the
> > > existing systemd-sysv package, and would have to be a
On Tue, 28 May 2024 at 02:57, Simon Richter wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> On 5/27/24 22:18, Simon McVittie wrote:
>
> > So I think your syslogd-is-journald could not be a Provides on the
> > existing systemd-sysv package, and would have to be a separate package.
> > I'm not sure that the benefit is worth it
Hi!
On Tue, 2024-05-28 at 10:57:13 +0900, Simon Richter wrote:
> On 5/27/24 22:18, Simon McVittie wrote:
> > So I think your syslogd-is-journald could not be a Provides on the
> > existing systemd-sysv package, and would have to be a separate package.
> > I'm not sure that the benefit is worth it
On Mon, 27 May 2024 15:08:38 +0100, Simon McVittie
wrote:
>I know fail2ban and logcheck do read plain-text logs (although as
>mentioned, fail2ban already has native Journal-reading support too), and I
>would guess that fwlogwatch, snort and xwatch probably also read the logs.
Those files could us
Hi,
On 5/27/24 22:18, Simon McVittie wrote:
So I think your syslogd-is-journald could not be a Provides on the
existing systemd-sysv package, and would have to be a separate package.
I'm not sure that the benefit is worth it (and I see that Luca is sure
that the benefit *isn't* worth it).
I a
Russ Allbery writes:
> Simon McVittie writes:
>
>> I know fail2ban and logcheck do read plain-text logs (although as
>> mentioned, fail2ban already has native Journal-reading support too), and
>> I would guess that fwlogwatch, snort and xwatch probably also read the
>> logs.
>
> logcheck also ha
Simon McVittie writes:
> On Mon, 27 May 2024 at 03:29:53 +0100, Luca Boccassi wrote:
>> The list of affected packages according to apt-cache showpkg is not
>> that long either:
>>
>> logcheck
> However, for packages that want to read a traditional /var/log/syslog
> or similar, notably logch
On Mon, 27 May 2024 at 17:04, Russ Allbery wrote:
>
> Simon McVittie writes:
>
> > I know fail2ban and logcheck do read plain-text logs (although as
> > mentioned, fail2ban already has native Journal-reading support too), and
> > I would guess that fwlogwatch, snort and xwatch probably also read
Simon McVittie writes:
> I know fail2ban and logcheck do read plain-text logs (although as
> mentioned, fail2ban already has native Journal-reading support too), and
> I would guess that fwlogwatch, snort and xwatch probably also read the
> logs.
logcheck also has native journal-reading support.
On Mon, 27 May 2024 at 15:09, Simon McVittie wrote:
>
> On Mon, 27 May 2024 at 14:38:44 +0100, Luca Boccassi wrote:
> > Yes this sounds reasonable - do you already have an idea about which
> > is which, from the list above?
>
> Nothing reliable, so please check before opening bugs.
>
> I know fail
On Mon, 27 May 2024 at 14:38:44 +0100, Luca Boccassi wrote:
> Yes this sounds reasonable - do you already have an idea about which
> is which, from the list above?
Nothing reliable, so please check before opening bugs.
I know fail2ban and logcheck do read plain-text logs (although as
mentioned, f
On Mon, 27 May 2024 at 13:59, Simon McVittie wrote:
>
> On Mon, 27 May 2024 at 03:29:53 +0100, Luca Boccassi wrote:
> > The list of affected packages according to apt-cache showpkg is not
> > that long either:
> >
> > anacron
> > approx
> > fail2ban
> > fwlogwatch
> > heartbeat
> > hip
On Mon, 27 May 2024 at 21:38:07 +0900, Simon Richter wrote:
> My train of thought here is that there should be a "syslogd-is-journald"
> package that Provides/Conflicts system-log-daemon
...
> hence the idea to use systemd-sysv instead of a new empty
> package as the alternative
I wonderered about
On Mon, 27 May 2024 at 13:41, Simon McVittie wrote:
>
> On Mon, 27 May 2024 at 03:29:53 +0100, Luca Boccassi wrote:
> > In Bookworm we enabled persistent journald by default, which was the
> > right choice. The problem is that some packages declare a dependency on
> > the virtual package system-lo
On Mon, 27 May 2024 at 03:29:53 +0100, Luca Boccassi wrote:
> The list of affected packages according to apt-cache showpkg is not
> that long either:
>
> anacron
> approx
> fail2ban
> fwlogwatch
> heartbeat
> hippotat-server
> inetutils-ftpd
> inetutils-inetd
> inetutils-talkd
>
On Mon, 27 May 2024 at 13:38, Simon Richter wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> On 5/27/24 19:59, Luca Boccassi wrote:
>
> > This MBF is
> > not about removing the virtual provides where they are defined, they
> > can stay as-is, but downgrading/removing the hard dependencies so that
> > we can make Debian minimal
On Mon, 27 May 2024 at 03:29:53 +0100, Luca Boccassi wrote:
> In Bookworm we enabled persistent journald by default, which was the
> right choice. The problem is that some packages declare a dependency on
> the virtual package system-log-daemon, which we cannot add on systemd
> given it would make
Hi,
On 5/27/24 19:59, Luca Boccassi wrote:
This MBF is
not about removing the virtual provides where they are defined, they
can stay as-is, but downgrading/removing the hard dependencies so that
we can make Debian minimal images.
So the policy becomes "a logging service is present even if not
On Mon, 27 May 2024 at 12:53, Ansgar 🙀 wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> On Mon, 2024-05-27 at 03:29 +0100, Luca Boccassi wrote:
> > TL;DR: drop or downgrade dependency on system-log-daemon from any
> > package that declares it
>
> +1. Log service freedom is important. Packages should in general not
> pull in a
On Mon, 27 May 2024 at 06:00, Simon Richter wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> On 5/27/24 11:29, Luca Boccassi wrote:
>
> > With the default system installation including persistent journald by
> > default, it doesn't seem useful anymore to have such dependencies. They
> > are leftovers from an era where not havi
Hi,
On Mon, 2024-05-27 at 03:29 +0100, Luca Boccassi wrote:
> TL;DR: drop or downgrade dependency on system-log-daemon from any
> package that declares it
+1. Log service freedom is important. Packages should in general not
pull in a log service as a dependency.
> The list of affected packages a
Hi,
On 5/27/24 11:29, Luca Boccassi wrote:
With the default system installation including persistent journald by
default, it doesn't seem useful anymore to have such dependencies. They
are leftovers from an era where not having a system logging setup that
just worked by default was a thing, and
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