Re: MATE 1.8 has now fully arrived in Debian

On Thu, Jul 03, 2014 at 05:01:13PM +0200, David Weinehall wrote: > On Wed, Jul 02, 2014 at 12:04:46AM +0800, Thomas Goirand wrote: > > I don't think so. I think it encourages to be more easy going, and have > > fun, but never mind. Let's keep Debian boring^W^Wportland weird. :) > > Would you feel

Re: MATE 1.8 has now fully arrived in Debian

On Wed, Jul 02, 2014 at 12:04:46AM +0800, Thomas Goirand wrote: > I don't think so. I think it encourages to be more easy going, and have > fun, but never mind. Let's keep Debian boring^W^Wportland weird. :) Would you feel the same if someone were to, say, upload a "hurd-must-die" package? Kind

Re: MATE 1.8 has now fully arrived in Debian

On Wed, Jul 02, 2014 at 01:53:06AM +0100, Wookey wrote: > But OK. I get it - this is still too contentious to have any room for > this sort of foolishness and if it's to exist at all it'll have to be > called something boring. That's a little sad, but we'll all > survive. This isn't supposed to be

Re: MATE 1.8 has now fully arrived in Debian

On Wed, Jul 02, 2014 at 01:10:51AM +, Clint Adams wrote: > On Wed, Jul 02, 2014 at 01:53:06AM +0100, Wookey wrote: > > But OK. I get it - this is still too contentious to have any room for > > this sort of foolishness and if it's to exist at all it'll have to be > > called something boring. Tha

Re: MATE 1.8 has now fully arrived in Debian

Hi, Clint Adams: > If you're going for non-boring entertainment value, have you > considered i-am-a-kneejerk-idiot-[...] Please adhere to the Code of Conduct. -- -- Matthias Urlichs signature.asc Description: Digital signature

Re: SV: MATE 1.8 has now fully arrived in Debian

On Lu, 30 iun 14, 01:56:20, Thomas Goirand wrote: > > > > You're not seriously suggesting dpkg would "sneak" a package on your > > system behind your back, do you? > > I believe he's only suggesting that having a package installed with a > Conflict: is harder to break (even by mistake) than just

Re: MATE 1.8 has now fully arrived in Debian

On Tue, Jul 1, 2014 at 5:53 PM, Wookey wrote: > +++ Stefano Zacchiroli [2014-06-30 11:43 +0200]: >> On Mon, Jun 30, 2014 at 10:27:49AM +0100, Lars Wirzenius wrote: >> > On Mon, Jun 30, 2014 at 10:42:09AM +0200, Tollef Fog Heen wrote: >> > > ]] Thomas Goirand >> > > > +1 for keeping the name which

Re: MATE 1.8 has now fully arrived in Debian

On Wed, Jul 02, 2014 at 01:53:06AM +0100, Wookey wrote: > But OK. I get it - this is still too contentious to have any room for > this sort of foolishness and if it's to exist at all it'll have to be > called something boring. That's a little sad, but we'll all > survive. This isn't supposed to be

Re: MATE 1.8 has now fully arrived in Debian

+++ Stefano Zacchiroli [2014-06-30 11:43 +0200]: > On Mon, Jun 30, 2014 at 10:27:49AM +0100, Lars Wirzenius wrote: > > On Mon, Jun 30, 2014 at 10:42:09AM +0200, Tollef Fog Heen wrote: > > > ]] Thomas Goirand > > > > +1 for keeping the name which is funny > > What's funny about an OS stating public

Re: MATE 1.8 has now fully arrived in Debian

+1 :) On Jul 1, 2014 6:39 PM, "Norbert Preining" wrote: > On Wed, 02 Jul 2014, Thomas Goirand wrote: > > I don't think so. I think it encourages to be more easy going, and have > > fun, but never mind. Let's keep Debian boring^W^Wportland weird. :) > > +1 > > Fun is missing, humour even more. > >

Re: MATE 1.8 has now fully arrived in Debian

On Wed, 02 Jul 2014, Thomas Goirand wrote: > I don't think so. I think it encourages to be more easy going, and have > fun, but never mind. Let's keep Debian boring^W^Wportland weird. :) +1 Fun is missing, humour even more. Norbert ---

Re: MATE 1.8 has now fully arrived in Debian

On 06/30/2014 05:43 PM, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote: > On Mon, Jun 30, 2014 at 10:27:49AM +0100, Lars Wirzenius wrote: >> On Mon, Jun 30, 2014 at 10:42:09AM +0200, Tollef Fog Heen wrote: >>> ]] Thomas Goirand +1 for keeping the name which is funny > > What's funny about an OS stating publicly th

Re: MATE 1.8 has now fully arrived in Debian

On Tue, 2014-07-01 at 13:01, Ondřej Surý wrote: > On Tue, Jul 1, 2014, at 08:15, Stefano Rivera wrote: > > Hi Matthias (2014.06.26_08:38:09_+0200) > > > Of these, roughly 20% have switched to systemd. And they apparently did > > > not > > > and do not have any problem with it, otherwise we'd hear

Re: MATE 1.8 has now fully arrived in Debian

On Tue, Jul 1, 2014, at 08:15, Stefano Rivera wrote: > Hi Matthias (2014.06.26_08:38:09_+0200) > > Of these, roughly 20% have switched to systemd. And they apparently did not > > and do not have any problem with it, otherwise we'd hear about it. Here and > > other places. Quite loudly. > > Not nec

Re: SV: MATE 1.8 has now fully arrived in Debian

Hi Matthias (2014.06.26_08:38:09_+0200) > Of these, roughly 20% have switched to systemd. And they apparently did not > and do not have any problem with it, otherwise we'd hear about it. Here and > other places. Quite loudly. Not necessarily. My laptop won't boot with systemd, although other mach

Re: MATE 1.8 has now fully arrived in Debian

On Mon, Jun 30, 2014 at 10:27:49AM +0100, Lars Wirzenius wrote: > On Mon, Jun 30, 2014 at 10:42:09AM +0200, Tollef Fog Heen wrote: > > ]] Thomas Goirand > > > +1 for keeping the name which is funny What's funny about an OS stating publicly that a specific piece of Free software---shipped and insta

Re: MATE 1.8 has now fully arrived in Debian

On Mon, Jun 30, 2014 at 10:42:09AM +0200, Tollef Fog Heen wrote: > ]] Thomas Goirand > > > +1 for keeping the name which is funny > > No, it's not. It's offensive to those of us who spend time on making > systemd integration in Debian be as good as possible. It's also offensive to those who thi

Re: MATE 1.8 has now fully arrived in Debian

]] Thomas Goirand > +1 for keeping the name which is funny No, it's not. It's offensive to those of us who spend time on making systemd integration in Debian be as good as possible. -- Tollef Fog Heen UNIX is user friendly, it's just picky about who its friends are -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email

Re: SV: MATE 1.8 has now fully arrived in Debian

On 06/29/2014 05:21 PM, Andrei POPESCU wrote: > On Sb, 28 iun 14, 21:42:47, Thorsten Glaser wrote: >> Andrei POPESCU dixit: >> >>> Yes, I know everything in Debian is a package, but APT *is* the master >>> of all packages :p >> >> Wrong: >> >> • dpkg (directly or via dselect) does not use APT’s sys

Re: SV: MATE 1.8 has now fully arrived in Debian

Hi, Guillem Jover: > On Wed, 2014-06-25 at 10:01:00 +0200, Matthias Urlichs wrote: > > … We have decided to use systemd as the default. … > > s/We have/The tech-ctte has/. > … and everybody else decided to not challenge their resolution, at the very least. Anti-systemd(-author) rants nonwithstan

Re: SV: MATE 1.8 has now fully arrived in Debian

On Wed, 2014-06-25 at 10:01:00 +0200, Matthias Urlichs wrote: > … We have decided to use systemd as the default. … s/We have/The tech-ctte has/. Regards, Guillem -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists

Re: SV: MATE 1.8 has now fully arrived in Debian

On Sb, 28 iun 14, 21:42:47, Thorsten Glaser wrote: > Andrei POPESCU dixit: > > >Yes, I know everything in Debian is a package, but APT *is* the master > >of all packages :p > > Wrong: > > • dpkg (directly or via dselect) does not use APT’s system > (well, not necessarily, anyway) You're not s

Re: SV: MATE 1.8 has now fully arrived in Debian

Andrei POPESCU dixit: >Yes, I know everything in Debian is a package, but APT *is* the master >of all packages :p Wrong: • dpkg (directly or via dselect) does not use APT’s system (well, not necessarily, anyway) • aptitude has been known to ignore the view dpkg/apt have on the system, e.g.

Re: SV: MATE 1.8 has now fully arrived in Debian

❦ 28 juin 2014 12:19 +0200, Josselin Mouette  : >> Why systemd-shim? > > Do you really need to ask why? > > There’s systemd in the name, therefore it must be *evil*, man. It has to > be part of a conspiracy to take over the world and remove our freedom to > make all executables setuid root! I wa

Re: SV: MATE 1.8 has now fully arrived in Debian

Le samedi 28 juin 2014 à 11:08 +0200, Vincent Bernat a écrit : > Why systemd-shim? Do you really need to ask why? There’s systemd in the name, therefore it must be *evil*, man. It has to be part of a conspiracy to take over the world and remove our freedom to make all executables setuid root! --

Re: MATE 1.8 has now fully arrived in Debian

Le vendredi, 27 juin 2014, 23.02:51 Thomas Goirand a écrit : > On 06/27/2014 06:31 PM, Michael Englehorn wrote: > > Wouldn't glibc then fall into the list of things you don't like as a > > "required framework"? By that logic, all libraries must be > > hot-swappable with no additional effort by the

Re: SV: MATE 1.8 has now fully arrived in Debian

On Sb, 28 iun 14, 10:56:24, Svante Signell wrote: > > The disadvantage with this approach is that you need an entry for every > package you don't want installed. No, you want to make use of the support for globs or regexes, see apt_preferences(5). > systemd-must-die_8_all.deb already conflicts

Re: SV: MATE 1.8 has now fully arrived in Debian

❦ 28 juin 2014 10:56 +0200, Svante Signell  : > systemd-must-die_8_all.deb already conflicts with nine packages: > Conflicts: libpam-systemd, live-config-systemd, python-systemd, systemd, > systemd-cron, systemd-gui, systemd-shim, systemd-sysv, systemd-ui Why systemd-shim? -- panic("Oh boy, tha

Re: SV: MATE 1.8 has now fully arrived in Debian

On Sat, 2014-06-28 at 09:50 +0300, Andrei POPESCU wrote: > On Jo, 26 iun 14, 14:33:49, Wookey wrote: > > > > Can it be uploaded please? As has been observed, there is a reasonable > > number of people who would like an easy way to control explicitly > > when/if they change to systemd for pid 1. Ha

Re: SV: MATE 1.8 has now fully arrived in Debian

On Jo, 26 iun 14, 14:33:49, Wookey wrote: > > Can it be uploaded please? As has been observed, there is a reasonable > number of people who would like an easy way to control explicitly > when/if they change to systemd for pid 1. Having to get it from a > separate repo should not be necessary. No

Re: MATE 1.8 has now fully arrived in Debian

Thorsten Glaser writes: > Russ Allbery wrote: >> Thorsten Glaser writes: >>> Yes, I fully agree. But _please_ also realise that there are people, >>> a non-neglibile number of them, for whom these frameworks are not an >>> improvement, and who wish to be not forced to use them. >> That's fine f

Re: MATE 1.8 has now fully arrived in Debian

On 06/27/2014 06:31 PM, Michael Englehorn wrote: > Wouldn't glibc then fall into the list of things you don't like as a > "required framework"? By that logic, all libraries must be hot-swappable > with no additional effort by the end-user. That's just not realistic. > > -Michael Are you aware tha

Re: MATE 1.8 has now fully arrived in Debian

On 06/27/2014 11:53, Svante Signell wrote: > Before this part of the thread dies out, can anybody comment on this, > Simon, Ansgar, Jean-Christophe, ...? I think my earlier answer [1] covers this. [1] Ansgar -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to

Re: MATE 1.8 has now fully arrived in Debian

On Fri, Jun 27, 2014 at 10:43:15AM +, Thorsten Glaser wrote: > Sune Vuorela wrote: > > >The way is to put your time/money where your mouth is and provide the > >code. Asking others to do all the work is not the way forward in OSS. > > I highly doubt you can call _me_ someone who does not do w

Re: MATE 1.8 has now fully arrived in Debian

On 27/06/14 10:53, Svante Signell wrote: > Before this part of the thread dies out, can anybody comment on this, > Simon, Ansgar, Jean-Christophe, ...? > > On Thu, 2014-06-26 at 16:32 +0200, Svante Signell wrote: >> Maybe I'm naive but doesn't utmp(5) solve this problem? >> >> who(1) tells me in c

Re: MATE 1.8 has now fully arrived in Debian

My fear is that systemd + friends are becoming a required framework, subverting the Unix ethos of a bunch of co-operating tools and libraries. It becomes increasing impossible to simply replace a component I might disagree with, or that breaks my use case, with one I develop because of all the cro

Re: SV: MATE 1.8 has now fully arrived in Debian

+++ Marco d'Itri [2014-06-26 16:29 +0200]: > On Jun 26, Wookey wrote: > > > Can it be uploaded please? As has been observed, there is a reasonable > > number of people who would like an easy way to control explicitly > > when/if they change to systemd for pid 1. Having to get it from a > apt-get

Re: MATE 1.8 has now fully arrived in Debian

Sune Vuorela wrote: >The way is to put your time/money where your mouth is and provide the >code. Asking others to do all the work is not the way forward in OSS. I highly doubt you can call _me_ someone who does not do work in OSS. You know, methods to clone a human being, time turners, etc. have

Re: MATE 1.8 has now fully arrived in Debian

On 6/27/2014 3:59 AM, Alastair McKinstry wrote: > On 26/06/2014 17:43, Paul Wise wrote: >> On Thu, Jun 26, 2014 at 10:58 PM, Alastair McKinstry wrote: >> >>> udev itself is disabled in scripts as it keeps crashing >>> on my hardware. (Old powerpc server). >> Which bug number is this? >> > This is a

Re: MATE 1.8 has now fully arrived in Debian

Before this part of the thread dies out, can anybody comment on this, Simon, Ansgar, Jean-Christophe, ...? On Thu, 2014-06-26 at 16:32 +0200, Svante Signell wrote: > On Thu, 2014-06-26 at 13:53 +0100, Simon McVittie wrote: > > On 26/06/14 13:33, Svante Signell wrote: > > > Of course with the addit

Re: MATE 1.8 has now fully arrived in Debian

On 2014-06-27, Thorsten Glaser wrote: > But this is precisely why we're in an OSS movement here. > We can change this, and we should, so that the other > solutions do *not* die out. We should *not* accept the > might of "the others all do this"! The way is to put your time/money where your mouth

Re: MATE 1.8 has now fully arrived in Debian

On 26/06/2014 17:43, Paul Wise wrote: > On Thu, Jun 26, 2014 at 10:58 PM, Alastair McKinstry wrote: > >> udev itself is disabled in scripts as it keeps crashing >> on my hardware. (Old powerpc server). > Which bug number is this? > This is a bug that I _think_ (following the lists) has since been f

Re: MATE 1.8 has now fully arrived in Debian

Russ Allbery wrote: >Thorsten Glaser writes: > >> Yes, I fully agree. But _please_ also realise that there are people, >> a non-neglibile number of them, for whom these frameworks are not an >> improvement, and who wish to be not forced to use them. > >That's fine for you to feel that way, but tha

Re: MATE 1.8 has now fully arrived in Debian

Le jeudi 26 juin 2014 à 15:58 +0100, Alastair McKinstry a écrit : > On 26/06/2014 15:33, Marco d'Itri wrote: > > A few people said this about udev as well. Now they use udev. > ... and complain or suffer in silence. Don't take popcon as a measure > of people being happy to use a critical dependency

Re: MATE 1.8 has now fully arrived in Debian

Thorsten Glaser writes: > Yes, I fully agree. But _please_ also realise that there are people, > a non-neglibile number of them, for whom these frameworks are not an > improvement, and who wish to be not forced to use them. That's fine for you to feel that way, but that feeling does not obligate

Re: systemd-must-die (was Re: MATE 1.8 has now fully arrived in Debian)

On 26 Jun 2014 15:05, "Thorsten Glaser" wrote: > content of its own. I believe it does not need to be in Debian > itself, technically, but I agree to upload it if its presence > is desired politically (even to wheezy-backports). > Personally I would love it. Cheers. -- Alessio

Re: MATE 1.8 has now fully arrived in Debian

On Thu, Jun 26, 2014 at 10:58 PM, Alastair McKinstry wrote: > udev itself is disabled in scripts as it keeps crashing > on my hardware. (Old powerpc server). Which bug number is this? -- bye, pabs http://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.

Re: MATE 1.8 has now fully arrived in Debian

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 On 26/06/2014 15:33, Marco d'Itri wrote: > On Jun 26, Thorsten Glaser wrote: > >> Yes, I fully agree. But _please_ also realise that there are people, >> a non-neglibile number of them, for whom these frameworks are not an >> improvement, and who w

Re: MATE 1.8 has now fully arrived in Debian

On Jun 26, Thorsten Glaser wrote: > Yes, I fully agree. But _please_ also realise that there are people, > a non-neglibile number of them, for whom these frameworks are not an > improvement, and who wish to be not forced to use them. A few people said this about udev as well. Now they use udev.

Re: MATE 1.8 has now fully arrived in Debian

On Thu, 2014-06-26 at 13:53 +0100, Simon McVittie wrote: > On 26/06/14 13:33, Svante Signell wrote: > > Of course with the additional check that the students are logged in to > > that box locally, did I forget to mention that? > > ... or > something involving utmp/wtmp/other traditions. > > utmp(

Re: SV: MATE 1.8 has now fully arrived in Debian

On Jun 26, Wookey wrote: > Can it be uploaded please? As has been observed, there is a reasonable > number of people who would like an easy way to control explicitly > when/if they change to systemd for pid 1. Having to get it from a apt-get install equivs -- ciao, Marco signature.asc Descrip

Re: SV: MATE 1.8 has now fully arrived in Debian

In other news for Thu, Jun 26, 2014 at 02:33:49PM +0100, Wookey has been seen typing: > +++ Svante Signell [2014-06-26 12:31 +0200]: > > > > Not in any official Debian repo unfortunately: > > > > http://users.unixforge.de/~tglaser/debs/dists/etch/wtf/Pkgs/mirabilos-support/ > > Can it be upload

systemd-must-die (was Re: MATE 1.8 has now fully arrived in Debian)

Wookey worte: >> [11]http://users.unixforge.de/~tglaser/debs/dists/etch/wtf/Pkgs/mirabilos-support/ > >Can it be uploaded please? As has been observed, there is a reasonable >number of people who would like an easy way to control explicitly >when/if they change to systemd for pid 1. Having to get

Re: MATE 1.8 has now fully arrived in Debian

[ ⏰ 26/06/2014 15:34 ] [ ✎ Thorsten Glaser ] > Jean-Christophe Dubacq wrote: > >> So that students can do eg ssh mybuddymachine /sbin/shutdown ? >> >> (and they need to be able to shutdown their own machine, power is not free). > > Why do people always think that a proposal will automatically > e

Re: MATE 1.8 has now fully arrived in Debian

Hi, On 06/26/2014 14:33, Svante Signell wrote: > On Thu, 2014-06-26 at 14:03 +0200, Jean-Christophe Dubacq wrote: >> [ ⏰ 26/06/2014 12:05 ] [ ✎ Svante Signell ] >>> On Thu, 2014-06-26 at 11:59 +0200, Ansgar Burchardt wrote: On 06/26/2014 11:34, Thorsten Glaser wrote: >> No, it didn't work

Re: MATE 1.8 has now fully arrived in Debian

Simon McVittie wrote: >tl;dr: these frameworks were not invented just to troll you, they do >have a purpose :-) Yes, I fully agree. But _please_ also realise that there are people, a non-neglibile number of them, for whom these frameworks are not an improvement, and who wish to be not forced to us

Re: MATE 1.8 has now fully arrived in Debian

Jean-Christophe Dubacq wrote: >So that students can do eg ssh mybuddymachine /sbin/shutdown ? > >(and they need to be able to shutdown their own machine, power is not free). Why do people always think that a proposal will automatically exclude all others? In your student scenario, you do *not* a

Re: SV: MATE 1.8 has now fully arrived in Debian

+++ Svante Signell [2014-06-26 12:31 +0200]: > On Thu, 2014-06-26 at 11:20 +0100, Wookey wrote: > > +++ Svante Signell [2014-06-24 19:57 +0200]: > > > > > > I strongly recommend the systemd-must-die package to prevent systemd > > > components being installed when dist-upgrading without the user be

Re: MATE 1.8 has now fully arrived in Debian

Svante Signell wrote: >On Thu, 2014-06-26 at 11:59 +0200, Ansgar Burchardt wrote: >> On 06/26/2014 11:34, Thorsten Glaser wrote: >> >> No, it didn't work. You had to be root for operations as simple as >> >> shutting down the computer. >> > >> > Only on Debian. OpenBSD and MirBSD have: >> > >> > -r

Re: MATE 1.8 has now fully arrived in Debian

Wookey wrote: >+++ Matthias Urlichs [2014-06-26 11:58 +0200]: >> Hi, >> >> Andrew Shadura: >> > [14]http://qa.debian.org/popcon-graph.php?packages=systemd-sysv+sysvinit&show_installed=on&want_legend=o >n&want_ticks=on&from_date=2014-01-01&to_date=&hlght_date=&date_fmt=%Y-%m&beenhere=1 >> > >> Sorry

Re: MATE 1.8 has now fully arrived in Debian

On 26/06/14 13:33, Svante Signell wrote: > Of course with the additional check that the students are logged in to > that box locally, did I forget to mention that? Apparently yes. So you'll still need some solution to "is this user local?" - either an implementation of the systemd-logind API (pref

Re: MATE 1.8 has now fully arrived in Debian

On Thu, 2014-06-26 at 14:03 +0200, Jean-Christophe Dubacq wrote: > [ ⏰ 26/06/2014 12:05 ] [ ✎ Svante Signell ] > > On Thu, 2014-06-26 at 11:59 +0200, Ansgar Burchardt wrote: > >> On 06/26/2014 11:34, Thorsten Glaser wrote: > No, it didn't work. You had to be root for operations as simple as >

Re: MATE 1.8 has now fully arrived in Debian

On Thu, 26 Jun 2014 13:02:15 +0200 Svante Signell wrote: > On Thu, 2014-06-26 at 11:45 +0100, Wookey wrote: > > +++ Matthias Urlichs [2014-06-26 11:58 +0200]: > > > Hi, > > > Which shows about a change from 'peak sysvinit-core' in mid-april: > > > > Mid april Now > > sysvinit-cor

Re: MATE 1.8 has now fully arrived in Debian

[ ⏰ 26/06/2014 12:05 ] [ ✎ Svante Signell ] > On Thu, 2014-06-26 at 11:59 +0200, Ansgar Burchardt wrote: >> On 06/26/2014 11:34, Thorsten Glaser wrote: No, it didn't work. You had to be root for operations as simple as shutting down the computer. >>> >>> Only on Debian. OpenBSD and MirBSD

Re: SV: MATE 1.8 has now fully arrived in Debian

On Thu, 2014-06-26 at 11:45 +0100, Wookey wrote: > +++ Matthias Urlichs [2014-06-26 11:58 +0200]: > > Hi, > Which shows about a change from 'peak sysvinit-core' in mid-april: > > Mid april Now > sysvinit-core:89% 81% > systemd-sysv: 6% 19% A question: If you unins

Re: SV: MATE 1.8 has now fully arrived in Debian

+++ Matthias Urlichs [2014-06-26 11:58 +0200]: > Hi, > > Andrew Shadura: > > http://qa.debian.org/popcon-graph.php?packages=systemd-sysv+sysvinit&show_installed=on&want_legend=on&want_ticks=on&from_date=2014-01-01&to_date=&hlght_date=&date_fmt=%Y-%m&beenhere=1 > > > Sorry, but this only demonstra

Re: SV: MATE 1.8 has now fully arrived in Debian

On Thu, 2014-06-26 at 11:20 +0100, Wookey wrote: > +++ Svante Signell [2014-06-24 19:57 +0200]: > > > > I strongly recommend the systemd-must-die package to prevent systemd > > components being installed when dist-upgrading without the user being > > aware. > > Where is this package? I'm not find

Re: MATE 1.8 has now fully arrived in Debian

Le jeudi 26 juin 2014 à 09:34 +, Thorsten Glaser a écrit : > >No, it didn't work. You had to be root for operations as simple as > >shutting down the computer. > > Only on Debian. OpenBSD and MirBSD have: > > -r-sr-x--- 1 root operator 122716 Sep 10 2013 /sbin/shutdown* > > I never unde

Re: SV: MATE 1.8 has now fully arrived in Debian

+++ Svante Signell [2014-06-24 19:57 +0200]: > > I strongly recommend the systemd-must-die package to prevent systemd > components being installed when dist-upgrading without the user being > aware. Where is this package? I'm not finding it in testing or the pts? Wookey -- Principal hats: Lina

Re: MATE 1.8 has now fully arrived in Debian

On Thu, 2014-06-26 at 11:59 +0200, Ansgar Burchardt wrote: > On 06/26/2014 11:34, Thorsten Glaser wrote: > >> No, it didn't work. You had to be root for operations as simple as > >> shutting down the computer. > > > > Only on Debian. OpenBSD and MirBSD have: > > > > -r-sr-x--- 1 root operator

Re: MATE 1.8 has now fully arrived in Debian

On 06/26/2014 11:34, Thorsten Glaser wrote: >> No, it didn't work. You had to be root for operations as simple as >> shutting down the computer. > > Only on Debian. OpenBSD and MirBSD have: > > -r-sr-x--- 1 root operator 122716 Sep 10 2013 /sbin/shutdown* > > I never understood why Debian do

Re: SV: MATE 1.8 has now fully arrived in Debian

Hi, Andrew Shadura: > http://qa.debian.org/popcon-graph.php?packages=systemd-sysv+sysvinit&show_installed=on&want_legend=on&want_ticks=on&from_date=2014-01-01&to_date=&hlght_date=&date_fmt=%Y-%m&beenhere=1 > Sorry, but this only demonstrates that you don't know what you're talking about. For a c

Re: MATE 1.8 has now fully arrived in Debian

>No, it didn't work. You had to be root for operations as simple as >shutting down the computer. Only on Debian. OpenBSD and MirBSD have: -r-sr-x--- 1 root operator 122716 Sep 10 2013 /sbin/shutdown* I never understood why Debian doesn't. bye, //mirabilos -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debi

Re: SV: MATE 1.8 has now fully arrived in Debian

On 26 June 2014 01:36, Marco d'Itri wrote: >> I used the word "Insidious" as I would have use "Stealth", because it's >> happening slowly, without us noticing, that everything in Debian is >> being locked with systemd. Soon, we'll have no choice. > This is why you should stop fighting: systemd has

Re: MATE 1.8 has now fully arrived in Debian

Thorsten Glaser writes: > For the record, I would be happy with a supported setup without systemd > that relied on using startx, and putting people into the "desktop" unix > groups manually. I don't think startx and fvwm are going anywhere, so, um, enjoy? :) fvwm doesn't depend on anything sys

Re: MATE 1.8 has now fully arrived in Debian

Le jeudi 26 juin 2014 à 08:31 +, Thorsten Glaser a écrit : > Can we have alternative dependencies that do not need to get > answers to these questions? This worked before *kit were even > invented, and this works on other OSes too. No, it didn’t work. You had to be root for operations as simp

Re: MATE 1.8 has now fully arrived in Debian

Russ Allbery dixit quod... >Simon McVittie writes: [ startx ] >> a virtual console, a locked X screensaver is worthless, because someone >> can just switch virtual console with Ctrl+Alt+Fn, press Ctrl+C and >> they're in your shell session. > >This doesn't change anything else that you point out,

Re: MATE 1.8 has now fully arrived in Debian

Simon McVittie dixit quod... >On 25/06/14 15:43, Svante Signell wrote: >> Regarding mate desktop policykit-1 build-depends on libsystemd-login-dev >> only for linux-any. What functionality is missing for other >> architectures? [...] >In Debian 7, PolicyKit could answer the question "is Svante logg

Re: SV: MATE 1.8 has now fully arrived in Debian

On Thu, Jun 26, 2014 at 08:41:17AM +0200, Josselin Mouette wrote: > Le mercredi 25 juin 2014 à 18:53 -0700, Steve Langasek a écrit : > > > And logind replacements have not appeared yet, as expected. > > Because this is a misstatement of the problem. Logind works systemd-shim > > today. > If it w

Re: SV: MATE 1.8 has now fully arrived in Debian

Le mercredi 25 juin 2014 à 18:53 -0700, Steve Langasek a écrit : > > And logind replacements have not appeared yet, as expected. > > Because this is a misstatement of the problem. Logind works systemd-shim > today. If it works as well as logind without systemd as pid 1 in earlier versions (leadi

Re: SV: MATE 1.8 has now fully arrived in Debian

Hi, Norbert Preining: > > http://qa.debian.org/popcon-graph.php?packages=systemd-sysv+upstart+openrc&show_installed=on&want_legend=on&want_ticks=on&from_date=2014-01-01&to_date=&hlght_date=&date_fmt=%25Y-%25m&beenhere=1 > > Unfair - because it is in the most cases not on free will. > Everyone usi

Re: Re: SV: MATE 1.8 has now fully arrived in Debian

> The interesting dependency chain is: Simon, thank you very much for this mail and the two ones following it. Your objectiveness and choice of words in this heated debate is really appreciated! Cheers, Fabian -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject o

Re: SV: MATE 1.8 has now fully arrived in Debian

Thomas Goirand writes: > On 06/25/2014 03:59 PM, Josselin Mouette wrote: >> Le mercredi 25 juin 2014 à 14:29 +0800, Thomas Goirand a écrit : >>> Do you know any other package like systemd, with a non-negligible amount >>> of users willing to *not* have it installed, but which is always brought >>

Re: SV: MATE 1.8 has now fully arrived in Debian

On Thu, Jun 26, 2014 at 03:22:50AM +0200, Marco d'Itri wrote: > On Jun 26, Norbert Preining wrote: > > > http://qa.debian.org/popcon-graph.php?packages=systemd-sysv+upstart+openrc&show_installed=on&want_legend=on&want_ticks=on&from_date=2014-01-01&to_date=&hlght_date=&date_fmt=%25Y-%25m&beenhere=

Re: SV: MATE 1.8 has now fully arrived in Debian

On Jun 26, Norbert Preining wrote: > > http://qa.debian.org/popcon-graph.php?packages=systemd-sysv+upstart+openrc&show_installed=on&want_legend=on&want_ticks=on&from_date=2014-01-01&to_date=&hlght_date=&date_fmt=%25Y-%25m&beenhere=1 > > Unfair - because it is in the most cases not on free will.

Re: SV: MATE 1.8 has now fully arrived in Debian

On 2014-06-25 14:03:20 -0700 (-0700), Russ Allbery wrote: > This doesn't change anything else that you point out, but that's > why you run startx & and then log out of the virtual console. On my workstations and travel machines I have: alias x='startx&exit' ...in my ~/.bash_aliases file. Wor

Re: SV: MATE 1.8 has now fully arrived in Debian

> http://qa.debian.org/popcon-graph.php?packages=systemd-sysv+upstart+openrc&show_installed=on&want_legend=on&want_ticks=on&from_date=2014-01-01&to_date=&hlght_date=&date_fmt=%25Y-%25m&beenhere=1 Unfair - because it is in the most cases not on free will. Everyone using Gnome - and that are a lot o

Re: SV: MATE 1.8 has now fully arrived in Debian

On Jun 25, Thomas Goirand wrote: > I used the word "Insidious" as I would have use "Stealth", because it's > happening slowly, without us noticing, that everything in Debian is > being locked with systemd. Soon, we'll have no choice. This is why you should stop fighting: systemd has won. http://

Re: SV: MATE 1.8 has now fully arrived in Debian

Simon McVittie writes: > Orthogonal to that, startx is basically terrible. It only works because > /usr/bin/X is setuid root, and that seems Bad™. Also, if you run it from > a virtual console, a locked X screensaver is worthless, because someone > can just switch virtual console with Ctrl+Alt+Fn,

Re: SV: MATE 1.8 has now fully arrived in Debian

Hi, Thomas Goirand: > > If you don't like that depencendy, it's your job to offer a patch > > which supports an alternative to that maintainer. > > It's not reasonable to tell I'm responsible for all of this. > This "you" was meant to refer to the collective set of people who want a supported sy

Re: SV: MATE 1.8 has now fully arrived in Debian

On 25/06/14 20:03, Svante Signell wrote: > On Wed, 2014-06-25 at 17:38 +0100, Simon McVittie wrote: >> Upstream developers in various projects increasingly oppose group-based >> access, because membership of many "desktop stuff" groups essentially >> means "can ssh in and do bad things to a local u

Re: SV: MATE 1.8 has now fully arrived in Debian

On 25/06/14 19:51, Svante Signell wrote: > Looks like consolekit is the package fork if such a thing ever happens. > There are still patches, mainly for kFreeBSD, from 2013-2014 in the > freedesktop BTS since the last release. When was the Debian switch from > consolekit to policykit-1 made? Conso

Re: SV: MATE 1.8 has now fully arrived in Debian

On Wed, 2014-06-25 at 17:38 +0100, Simon McVittie wrote: > On 25/06/14 15:43, Svante Signell wrote: > > Regarding mate desktop policykit-1 build-depends on libsystemd-login-dev > > only for linux-any. What functionality is missing for other > > architectures? > > The interesting dependency chain i

Re: SV: MATE 1.8 has now fully arrived in Debian

On Tue, 2014-06-24 at 20:23 +0200, Josselin Mouette wrote: > Le mardi 24 juin 2014 à 19:57 +0200, Svante Signell a écrit : > > Are there any chances that some version of policykit-1 could stay free > > from any *systemd* dependency? > > PolicyKit needs a session tracking mechanism, and with Conso

Re: SV: MATE 1.8 has now fully arrived in Debian

On 25/06/14 15:43, Svante Signell wrote: > Regarding mate desktop policykit-1 build-depends on libsystemd-login-dev > only for linux-any. What functionality is missing for other > architectures? The interesting dependency chain is: policykit-1 Depends libpam-systemd [linux-any] (degraded function

Re: SV: MATE 1.8 has now fully arrived in Debian

On Wed, 2014-06-25 at 22:01 +0800, Thomas Goirand wrote: > On 06/25/2014 03:59 PM, Josselin Mouette wrote: > > > > You are insinuating that people are surreptitiously adding dependencies > > on systemd components their packages don’t need, just so that they get > > installed on your system to piss

Re: SV: MATE 1.8 has now fully arrived in Debian

On 06/25/2014 03:59 PM, Josselin Mouette wrote: > Le mercredi 25 juin 2014 à 14:29 +0800, Thomas Goirand a écrit : >> Do you know any other package like systemd, with a non-negligible amount >> of users willing to *not* have it installed, but which is always brought >> back by insidious reverse de

Re: SV: MATE 1.8 has now fully arrived in Debian

Hi, Thomas Goirand: > On 06/25/2014 02:23 AM, Josselin Mouette wrote: > > Are you going to recommend a $package-must-die for each of them? > > Do you know any other package like systemd, with a non-negligible amount > of users willing to *not* have it installed, but which is always brought > back

Re: SV: MATE 1.8 has now fully arrived in Debian

Le mercredi 25 juin 2014 à 14:29 +0800, Thomas Goirand a écrit : > Do you know any other package like systemd, with a non-negligible amount > of users willing to *not* have it installed, but which is always brought > back by insidious reverse dependencies? “Insidious reverse dependencies”? You a

Re: SV: MATE 1.8 has now fully arrived in Debian

On Wed, 25 Jun 2014, Thomas Goirand wrote: > > Are you going to recommend a $package-must-die for each of them? > > Do you know any other package like systemd, with a non-negligible amount > of users willing to *not* have it installed, but which is always brought > back by insidious reverse depend

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