Hi, people. I'm not a DD here, so let that colour your opinions of
what I will say however it will.
I am, however, deeply interested in Debian and have done wee bits of
coding for it in the past, and keep meaning to do so more for it.
It is an unfortunate situation that often people when they're
Quoting Steve McIntyre :
[snip]
Here's the full body of the message I sent to Sam. He contacted me
asking for my thoughts and I wrote the following:
===
On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 08:53:24AM +1100, Sam Varghese wrote:
[snip]
I am
Hi,
On Thu, 2008-12-18 at 23:04 +1100, Russell Coker wrote:
> The above article concerns the damage that Josselin's actions cause to the
> Debian project. D-d-a is not that different from other parts of Debian, bad
> behaviour in other forums also hurts the project.
I think that flame-war thre
On Sat, Dec 20, 2008 at 09:12:46AM +0100, Thomas Weber wrote:
> > > Or do you need to let of some steam here, because such behaviour is
> > > unacceptable on Ubuntu lists?
> > There's no ubuntu-legal list infested with leeches who think it's their
> > business to tell Ubuntu how to interpret its o
On Sat, Dec 20, 2008 at 07:07:35PM +1100, Russell Coker wrote:
> On Friday 19 December 2008 19:56, Johannes Wiedersich
> wrote:
> > What slightly upsets me about the issue is not what happened, but rather
> > that the French appear so arrogant as to think what happened on a world
> > wide announc
On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 08:31:15PM -0800, Steve Langasek wrote:
> On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 10:11:25AM +0100, Thomas Weber wrote:
> > > No, the problem is that certain of our French developers *think* that the
> > > rest of the world just doesn't understand their French humor and that
> > > something
On Friday 19 December 2008 19:56, Johannes Wiedersich
wrote:
> What slightly upsets me about the issue is not what happened, but rather
> that the French appear so arrogant as to think what happened on a world
> wide announcement is fine, just because the French think it is fine.
Do we have any
On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 10:11:25AM +0100, Thomas Weber wrote:
> > No, the problem is that certain of our French developers *think* that the
> > rest of the world just doesn't understand their French humor and that
> > something has been lost in translation.
> > When the reality is that we understa
Eduard wrote:
>#include
>* Russell Coker [Thu, Dec 18 2008, 11:04:24PM]:
>> http://discuss.itwire.com/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=7991
>>
>> From the above news article:
>> # Debian Project Leader Steve McIntyre told iTWire that after Mouette's
>> "abuse
>
>I would like to know what exactly Steve told
On 12/19/08 17:47, Eduard Bloch wrote:
#include
* Michael Banck [Fri, Dec 19 2008, 06:13:57PM]:
Dear Norbert,
On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 01:18:21AM +0100, Norbert Preining wrote:
So if *anyone* here thinks he is up to define ethical, political
correct, anti-sexist and all the bullshit, please do
On 12/19/08 17:18, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
On Fri, Dec 19 2008, Russ Allbery wrote:
Agustin Martin writes:
For the record, a similar expression also exists in Spanish, either with
a broomstick or with an umbrella. Both ends are used in the
expression. No sexual connotation implied at all.
W
#include
* Cyril Brulebois [Fri, Dec 19 2008, 09:35:24AM]:
> Eduard Bloch (18/12/2008):
> > * Russell Coker [Thu, Dec 18 2008, 11:04:24PM]:
> > > http://discuss.itwire.com/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=7991
> >
> > I would like to know what exactly Steve told them. The major tone WRT
> > OSS on that page
#include
* Michael Banck [Fri, Dec 19 2008, 06:13:57PM]:
> Dear Norbert,
>
> On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 01:18:21AM +0100, Norbert Preining wrote:
> > So if *anyone* here thinks he is up to define ethical, political
> > correct, anti-sexist and all the bullshit, please do so, but somewhere
> > else.
Manoj Srivastava writes:
> On Fri, Dec 19 2008, Russ Allbery wrote:
>> For the record, the same is true in American English (the colloquial
>> phrase being "a stick up your ass" and regularly used without any sexual
>> connotation whatsoever). I don't know if Russell's objections are unique
>> t
On Fri, Dec 19 2008, Raphael Hertzog wrote:
> On Fri, 19 Dec 2008, Josselin Mouette wrote:
>> Le vendredi 19 décembre 2008 à 11:39 -0200, Martin Langhoff a écrit :
>> > The mission of Debian is not "spot the bigot". Debian embraces people
>> > of many beliefs, customs and ways of life under one sh
On Fri, Dec 19 2008, Russ Allbery wrote:
> Agustin Martin writes:
>
>> For the record, a similar expression also exists in Spanish, either with
>> a broomstick or with an umbrella. Both ends are used in the
>> expression. No sexual connotation implied at all.
>>
>> World is not that different,
>
On Fr, 19 Dez 2008, Michael Banck wrote:
> Dear Norbert,
>
> On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 01:18:21AM +0100, Norbert Preining wrote:
> > So if *anyone* here thinks he is up to define ethical, political
> > correct, anti-sexist and all the bullshit, please do so, but somewhere
> > else.
>
> Please use g
Agustin Martin writes:
> For the record, a similar expression also exists in Spanish, either with
> a broomstick or with an umbrella. Both ends are used in the
> expression. No sexual connotation implied at all.
>
> World is not that different,
For the record, the same is true in American Englis
On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 06:13:57PM +0100, Michael Banck wrote:
> Dear Norbert,
>
> On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 01:18:21AM +0100, Norbert Preining wrote:
> > So if *anyone* here thinks he is up to define ethical, political
> > correct, anti-sexist and all the bullshit, please do so, but somewhere
> > el
Dear Norbert,
On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 01:18:21AM +0100, Norbert Preining wrote:
> So if *anyone* here thinks he is up to define ethical, political
> correct, anti-sexist and all the bullshit, please do so, but somewhere
> else.
Please use gender-neutral language when addressing a diverse audience
On Fri, 19 Dec 2008, Josselin Mouette wrote:
> Le vendredi 19 décembre 2008 à 11:39 -0200, Martin Langhoff a écrit :
> > The mission of Debian is not "spot the bigot". Debian embraces people
> > of many beliefs, customs and ways of life under one shared belief --
> > about an OS.
>
> Precisely. An
Le vendredi 19 décembre 2008 à 11:39 -0200, Martin Langhoff a écrit :
> The mission of Debian is not "spot the bigot". Debian embraces people
> of many beliefs, customs and ways of life under one shared belief --
> about an OS.
Precisely. And in such a project, you need to work together with peopl
On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 10:59 AM, Josselin Mouette wrote:
> Our country is very far from exempt of human rights violations. Those
> trying to frame the current discussion in terms of cultures or countries
> are forgetting that every culture and country has its share of
> intolerant people. I don't
On Fri, Dec 19, 2008, Johannes Wiedersich wrote:
> I am sorry. I meant 'some French'. It was not my intention to give the
> impression that this applies to all the French. Please accept my apologies.
We're almost all humans, thanks for retracting. :-)
--
Loïc Minier
--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email
Le vendredi 19 décembre 2008 à 13:30 +0100, Olivier Berger a écrit :
> For instance see our Secretaire d'Etat's declaration at :
> http://gayswithoutborders.wordpress.com/2008/09/04/france-rama-yade-will-appeal-at-the-united-nations-for-the-universal-decriminalisation-of-homosexuality/
>
> OK, OK,
Johannes Wiedersich wrote:
> Romain Beauxis wrote:
>> I start a discussion trying to explain how misunderstanding can happen and
>> it
>> ends up claiming that french are arogant.
>
> I am sorry, if I misunderstood your point as defending Joss's
> announcement, while you were just trying to expl
Le vendredi 19 décembre 2008 à 10:01 -0200, Martin Langhoff a écrit :
> On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 8:46 PM, Josselin Mouette wrote:
> > Homosexuality can be an *accusation* ‽
>
> It still is in some countries. That's why mature people don't play
> with that openly in international projects.
>
> Per
On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 8:46 PM, Josselin Mouette wrote:
> Homosexuality can be an *accusation* ‽
It still is in some countries. That's why mature people don't play
with that openly in international projects.
Perhaps you didn't know.
cheers,
martin
--
martin.langh...@gmail.com
mar...@lapto
On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 05:00:47AM +0100, Harald Braumann wrote:
> On Fri, 19 Dec 2008 01:04:05 +0100
> > I am really speechless The French seem to have a completely
> > different understanding of the English language used in all these
> > matters than almost every one else in the world.
> Wel
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Romain Beauxis wrote:
> I start a discussion trying to explain how misunderstanding can happen and it
> ends up claiming that french are arogant.
I am sorry, if I misunderstood your point as defending Joss's
announcement, while you were just trying t
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Loïc Minier wrote:
> On Fri, Dec 19, 2008, Johannes Wiedersich wrote:
>> What slightly upsets me about the issue is not what happened, but rather
>> that the French appear so arrogant as to think what happened on a world
>> wide announcement is fine, j
Le Friday 19 December 2008 09:56:21 Johannes Wiedersich, vous avez écrit :
> What slightly upsets me about the issue is not what happened, but rather
> that the French appear so arrogant as to think what happened on a world
> wide announcement is fine, just because the French think it is fine.
I y
On Fri, Dec 19, 2008, Johannes Wiedersich wrote:
> What slightly upsets me about the issue is not what happened, but rather
> that the French appear so arrogant as to think what happened on a world
> wide announcement is fine, just because the French think it is fine.
"the French" => FAIL; thanks
Am Donnerstag, den 18.12.2008, 22:51 -0800 schrieb Steve Langasek:
> On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 01:04:05AM +0100, Johannes Wiedersich wrote:
> > I am really speechless The French seem to have a completely
> > different understanding of the English language used in all these
> > matters than almost
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Romain Beauxis wrote:
> Le Friday 19 December 2008 01:04:05 Johannes Wiedersich, vous avez écrit :
>> Joss, it is disappointing that after all that time since your faux pas
>> [1], you still seem to fail to understand that what might be acceptable
>> w
Eduard Bloch (18/12/2008):
> * Russell Coker [Thu, Dec 18 2008, 11:04:24PM]:
> > http://discuss.itwire.com/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=7991
>
> I would like to know what exactly Steve told them. The major tone WRT
> OSS on that page seems to be pretty harsh, close to FUD and trolling.
>
> So how did St
On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 01:04:05AM +0100, Johannes Wiedersich wrote:
> I am really speechless The French seem to have a completely
> different understanding of the English language used in all these
> matters than almost every one else in the world. I guess it is really
> time that Joss realize
Simon Huggins wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 11:04:24PM +1100, Russell Coker wrote:
>> As the Debian culture is opposed to censorship, I believe that such posts do
>> not belong on Planet Debian - which is for many people the public face of
>> Debian.
>
> To be clear, this means that as the De
On Fri, 19 Dec 2008 01:04:05 +0100
Johannes Wiedersich wrote:
> Pierre Habouzit wrote:
> > On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 10:28:09PM +, Russell Coker wrote:
> >> The creation of a fake picture of Manoj wearing leather makes it
> >> clear that Joss was intending to make an insinuation of
> >> homosex
Marco d'Itri wrote:
On Dec 18, Russell Coker wrote:
The Ubuntu community includes many former and current members of the Debian
community. It seems that they don't have a problem with the code of conduct.
Why do you think that a code of conduct which works well for Ubuntu would
fail for D
On Dec 18, Holger Levsen wrote:
> To those thinking about expelling Joss, I'm in favor of this now. Trolling on
> purpose (repeatetly) for the sake of it is nothing I want to see in Debian
> nor do I want to see it as accepted behaviour.
Come on... We had a DPL who hosted the browser exploits
On Dec 18, Russell Coker wrote:
> The Ubuntu community includes many former and current members of the Debian
> community. It seems that they don't have a problem with the code of conduct.
> Why do you think that a code of conduct which works well for Ubuntu would
> fail for Debian?
They get p
On Dec 18, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote:
> FWIW, I'm way more annoyed by _frequent_ OT blog posts totally
> unrelated to Debian on Planet Debian (even though I enjoy _sporadic_
> OTs) than by Joss posts.
Me too! I really do not feel the need to learn how much the personal
life of other developers suc
On Dec 18, Russell Coker wrote:
> He has stated
> that he intends to keep offending people. His aim seems to be the censorship
> of people who disagree with him by continually offending them until they stop
> disagreeing.
I am quite sure that this is not a new meaning of "censorship" I was no
Le Friday 19 December 2008 01:04:05 Johannes Wiedersich, vous avez écrit :
> Joss, it is disappointing that after all that time since your faux pas
> [1], you still seem to fail to understand that what might be acceptable
> within one culture (I don't speak or understand 'French') will not
> necess
On Friday 19 December 2008 10:01, Romain Beauxis wrote:
> Well, you could also argue that "in intend to offend" means "present things
> as if it was offensent", much like when calling someone a geek is meant as
> an insult...
Exactly.
Also I had a brief off-list discussion with Joss about this i
On Do, 18 Dez 2008, Russell Coker wrote:
> The above article concerns the damage that Josselin's actions cause to the
> Debian project. D-d-a is not that different from other parts of Debian, bad
> behaviour in other forums also hurts the project.
Oh bummer. Normally I never write something in
Pierre Habouzit wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 10:28:09PM +, Russell Coker wrote:
>> The creation of a fake picture of Manoj wearing leather makes it clear that
>> Joss was intending to make an insinuation of homosexuality in order to
>> offend.
>
> I'm really speechless... I mean, even fr
On Fri, Dec 19, 2008, Russell Coker wrote:
> The expression "broomstick in their arse" is also common in Australian
> culture. It is even sometimes used without the intent to make an accusation
> of homosexuality.
>
> However Josselin made it quite clear that he was not using the term as a
>
Le Thursday 18 December 2008 23:46:25 Josselin Mouette, vous avez écrit :
> So, if I follow you:
> leather -> homosexuality
> homosexuality -> offense
>
> And by saying both of these, you dare say that I am offensive ‽
Well, you could also argue that "in intend to offend" means "pr
Le vendredi 19 décembre 2008 à 09:28 +1100, Russell Coker a écrit :
> The expression "broomstick in their arse" is also common in Australian
> culture. It is even sometimes used without the intent to make an accusation
> of homosexuality.
Homosexuality can be an *accusation* ‽
> The creation o
On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 10:28:09PM +, Russell Coker wrote:
> On Friday 19 December 2008 08:53, Romain Beauxis wrote:
> > Being french too, I can assure you that pretending that someone has a
> > broomstick in its ass is a very common expression for someone who it too
> > much rigid. It is comm
On 2008-12-18, Russell Coker wrote:
> culture. It is even sometimes used without the intent to make an accusation
> of homosexuality.
> Joss was intending to make an insinuation of homosexuality in order to
> offend.
I think you are seeing ghosts or just being prejudistic against
homosexuals.
On Friday 19 December 2008 08:53, Romain Beauxis wrote:
> > http://np237.livejournal.com/20741.html
> >
> > That method was attempted, the response from Josselin was "I will go on
> > shocking these people", along with several references to sodomy with a
> > broomstick and a link to a French web p
#include
* Russell Coker [Thu, Dec 18 2008, 11:04:24PM]:
> http://discuss.itwire.com/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=7991
>
> From the above news article:
> # Debian Project Leader Steve McIntyre told iTWire that after Mouette's "abuse
I would like to know what exactly Steve told them. The major tone WRT
O
(I answer since there is a question adressed..)
Le Thursday 18 December 2008 22:01:17 Russell Coker, vous avez écrit :
> On Friday 19 December 2008 06:28, Romain Beauxis
wrote:
> > The initial proposition of this thread was this idea of code of conduct..
> > I don't like it either. If you belie
On Friday 19 December 2008 06:28, Romain Beauxis wrote:
> The initial proposition of this thread was this idea of code of conduct..
> I don't like it either. If you believe someone is being too rude, why
> don't you simply tell it to him, in public or in private ?
http://np237.livejournal.com/20
On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 08:28:21PM +0100, Romain Beauxis wrote:
> And if the jokes don't make you laugh, just ignore them.
Which of course would be easier to do if the jokes were not told in the
first place. There's a time and place for everything, it's a shame
that a few seem to think that this li
Le Thursday 18 December 2008 19:12:29 Martin Langhoff, vous avez écrit :
> On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 12:32 PM, Ron Johnson wrote:
> > Manners, Josselin, and discretion. There are some places where it's just
> > not appropriate to blurt out whatever you're thinking.
>
> +10 from here.
>
> Of course,
On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 12:32 PM, Ron Johnson wrote:
> Manners, Josselin, and discretion. There are some places where it's just
> not appropriate to blurt out whatever you're thinking.
+10 from here.
Of course, Josselin thinks and jokes differently from others, as it's
natural to do. When in a
Holger Levsen (18/12/2008):
> To those thinking about expelling Joss, I'm in favor of this now.
OOH, that's the season, maybe?
> Trolling on purpose (repeatetly) for the sake of it is nothing I want
> to see in Debian nor do I want to see it as accepted behaviour.
Just for the record, Joss didn
Le Thursday 18 December 2008 18:21:48 Holger Levsen, vous avez écrit :
> To those thinking about expelling Joss, I'm in favor of this now. Trolling
> on purpose (repeatetly) for the sake of it is nothing I want to see in
> Debian nor do I want to see it as accepted behaviour.
You can't be serious.
Hi,
kindergarten and western civilisation indeed would be a good idea.
To those thinking about expelling Joss, I'm in favor of this now. Trolling on
purpose (repeatetly) for the sake of it is nothing I want to see in Debian
nor do I want to see it as accepted behaviour.
regards,
Hol
Le Thursday 18 December 2008 18:08:00 Josselin Mouette, vous avez écrit :
> Le jeudi 18 décembre 2008 à 17:49 +0100, Romain Beauxis a écrit :
> > I eat kittens at breakfast
>
> How do you cook them?
>
> I like European cats a lot, but I heard the Siamese meat is more tender.
> Do you have some advi
Le jeudi 18 décembre 2008 à 17:49 +0100, Romain Beauxis a écrit :
> I eat kittens at breakfast
How do you cook them?
I like European cats a lot, but I heard the Siamese meat is more tender.
Do you have some advice?
--
.''`.
: :' : We are debian.org. Lower your prices, surrender your code.
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Romain Beauxis wrote:
> Le Thursday 18 December 2008 16:37:38 Johannes Wiedersich, vous avez écrit :
>>The point is it was an 'announcement' and it
>> was perceived as inappropriate (not only OT) by many.
>
> I fully disagr
Le Thursday 18 December 2008 16:37:38 Johannes Wiedersich, vous avez écrit :
> Julien BLACHE wrote:
> > I'd argue about that "official" thing that people have been using to
> > qualify d-d-a. It's an announce list for developers, by
> > developers. I'm not sure what's official in there. I'd tend to
Michael Banck wrote:
> Like it or not, messages to d-d-a are frequently forwarded verbatim to
> LWN and other major IT-centered news sources. This happen much less
Pretty much everything and anything ends up there, so that's hardly a
criterion for relevance or whatever.
JB.
--
Julien BLACHE
On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 04:45:07PM +0100, Mohammed Adnène Trojette wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 18, 2008, Russell Coker wrote:
> > He has stated that he intends to keep offending people. His aim seems
> > to be the censorship of people who disagree with him by continually
> > offending them until they stop
On Thu, Dec 18, 2008, Russell Coker wrote:
> He has stated that he intends to keep offending people. His aim seems
> to be the censorship of people who disagree with him by continually
> offending them until they stop disagreeing.
Come on, you're defacing reality and Josselin's statements...
What
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Julien BLACHE wrote:
> I'd argue about that "official" thing that people have been using to
> qualify d-d-a. It's an announce list for developers, by
> developers. I'm not sure what's official in there. I'd tend to say
> anything "official" is project
On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 03:53:09PM +0100, Romain Beauxis wrote:
> Le Thursday 18 December 2008 15:45:05 Michael Banck, vous avez écrit :
> > > I'd argue about that "official" thing that people have been using to
> > > qualify d-d-a. It's an announce list for developers, by
> > > developers.
> >
> >
Le Thursday 18 December 2008 15:45:05 Michael Banck, vous avez écrit :
> > I'd argue about that "official" thing that people have been using to
> > qualify d-d-a. It's an announce list for developers, by
> > developers.
>
> Wrong. While in /theory/ it might be for developers, in /practise/,
> d-d-
On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 03:15:38PM +0100, Julien BLACHE wrote:
> Stefano Zacchiroli wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> >> Official announcements to the outside world actually appear in
> >> debian-announce; debian-devel-announce is a developer list.
> >
> > You are a bit picky, you know? :-)
>
> I don't think
On 12/18/08 06:26, Josselin Mouette wrote:
Le jeudi 18 décembre 2008 à 23:04 +1100, Russell Coker a écrit :
The above article concerns the damage that Josselin's actions cause to the
Debian project. D-d-a is not that different from other parts of Debian, bad
behaviour in other forums also hurt
Stefano Zacchiroli wrote:
Hi,
>> Official announcements to the outside world actually appear in
>> debian-announce; debian-devel-announce is a developer list.
>
> You are a bit picky, you know? :-)
I don't think so; setting the record straight isn't being picky :)
> Yes: I know the difference
On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 02:34:09PM +0100, Julien BLACHE wrote:
> > them. Your implicit assumption that Planet Debian conveys an
> > "official" message to our community is totally unsound IMO. We have
> > d-d-a for our official message (yes, Joss abused that, and has been
>
> Official announcements
Stefano Zacchiroli wrote:
Hi,
> them. Your implicit assumption that Planet Debian conveys an
> "official" message to our community is totally unsound IMO. We have
> d-d-a for our official message (yes, Joss abused that, and has been
Official announcements to the outside world actually appear in
* Russell Coker:
> The above article concerns the damage that Josselin's actions cause to the
> Debian project.
I don't think it's fair to hold Josselin responsible for what that
particular author writes, no matter what you think of his actions.
--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ..
On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 11:04:24PM +1100, Russell Coker wrote:
> As the Debian culture is opposed to censorship, I believe that such posts do
> not belong on Planet Debian
This sounds like an oxymoron to me.
FWIW, I'm way more annoyed by _frequent_ OT blog posts totally
unrelated to Debian on Pl
Le Thursday 18 December 2008 13:04:24 Russell Coker, vous avez écrit :
> The above article concerns the damage that Josselin's actions cause to the
> Debian project. D-d-a is not that different from other parts of Debian,
> bad behaviour in other forums also hurts the project.
I have that feeling
Le jeudi 18 décembre 2008 à 23:04 +1100, Russell Coker a écrit :
> The above article concerns the damage that Josselin's actions cause to the
> Debian project. D-d-a is not that different from other parts of Debian, bad
> behaviour in other forums also hurts the project.
What do you want to say
On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 11:04:24PM +1100, Russell Coker wrote:
> As the Debian culture is opposed to censorship, I believe that such posts do
> not belong on Planet Debian - which is for many people the public face of
> Debian.
To be clear, this means that as the Debian culture is opposed to
cen
http://discuss.itwire.com/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=7991
From the above news article:
# Debian Project Leader Steve McIntyre told iTWire that after Mouette's "abuse
# of the ability to post to the d-d-a mailing list, I asked our mailing list
# administrators to remove that privilege for in future."
ht
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