nsserv should be available as
an option for those sysadmins.
For others, it will break systems. That is why the option should
be accompanied by accurate and unbiased information outlining the
relevant pros and cons.
--Mike Bird
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making
upgrades from Lenny to Squeeze unnecessarily difficult.
--Mike Bird
[1] http://trinity.pearsoncomputing.net/debian_installation.html
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e systems. You simply do not know and
cannot know what dependencies are out in the world in
the Snn/Knn approach, and which can safely be removed
on any given system.
That is why sysadmins should be able to decide if and
when to enable insserv based on accurate and unbiased
information.
--Mik
On Sun January 16 2011 15:41:40 Thomas Hochstein wrote:
> Mike Bird schrieb:
> Does insserv fail then because it is inherently unable to mimic the
> Snn/Knn behaviour or due to wrong (missing, ...) dependency info in
> the initscripts? If it's the latter, the right solution woul
complex systems without further effort on your part."
That's an excellent suggestion. Would you care to post it to #610185[1]
to be sure the maintainer sees it?
--Mike Bird
[1] http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=610185
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necessary and may break their systems.
I'm not asking for insserv to be removed. I'm asking
that Debian users be given accurate information upon
which to base their decisions rather than dangerously
misleading information.
--Mike Bird
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alled packages.
This data was collected not with a view to purging packages but
rather with a view to determining the prevalance of the problem
and ultimately a low-priority mass bug filing.
--Mike Bird
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2] to give people fair
notice of the pros and cons of insserv but unfortunately
Julien Cristau simply closed the bug without explanation[3].
--Mike Bird
[1] http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=610185
[2]
http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?msg=5;filename=sysv-rc-postinst-
mited, four fields:
debian-release package-name package-version obsolete-conffile
--Mike Bird
ObsoleteConffilesOfInstalledPackages
Description: application/shellscript
5.0.7 acpi-support 0.109-11 /etc/acpi/resume.d/13-915-resolution-set.sh
5.0.7 acpi-support 0.109-11 /etc/acpi/resume.d/49-915-resol
y event, I don't think we need to worry about them at
this stage of the release cycle.
--Mike Bird
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;s
an example from one of our upgrade tests. The package is installed
but has obsolete conffiles and thereby caused insserv setup to fail.
--Mike Bird
# dpkg -s bittorrent
Package: bittorrent
Status: install ok installed
Priority: optional
Section: net
Installed-Size: 588
Maintainer: Michael Jan
s, however, a big problem for Squeeze and it needs to be fixed.
--Mike Bird
[1] http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=610185
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mended" with no
warning about the potential adverse consequences.
I have attached a proposed patch.
--Mike Bird
diff -ruN sysvinit-2.88dsf/debian/sysv-rc.templates sysvinit-2.88dsf.NEW/debian/sysv-rc.templates
--- sysvinit-2.88dsf/debian/sysv-rc.templates 2011-01-15 14:30:43.0 -0800
+++
ly
KDE 3.5 and KDE SC 4 would be co-installable (Trinity has
achieved this) but it is not essential. What is important is
that KDE SC 4 not unnecessarily usurp the KDE 3.5 package
namespace and thereby make KDE 3.5 packaging and upgrades
unnecessarily difficult.
--Mike Bird
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naming.
If the KDE 4 maintainers would leave the KDE 3.5 package
namespace untouched, then it would be much easier for
people to continue to use KDE 3.5 whether as Debian
packages (preferred) or via external repositories such
as Trinity.
--Mike Bird
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humoring someone with a tenth of their expertise.
Debian has unfortunately moved from excellence-driven to time-serving.
The problem is curable. Hopefully a DPL will tackle it one of these years.
--Mike Bird
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them if you wish.
But don't force them on people. Don't trick people into using them
by saying they're recommended when they can in fact be disastrous.
The mere fact that they have to be forced on people shows just how
awful they are.
--Mike Bird
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those systems as the lucky ones as they kept the reliable
legacy boot mechanism.
--Mike Bird
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and KDE 4 co-existed just fine in Lenny.
KDE 3.5 has upstream support, an excellent code base, a stable
and well-loved product, and far far fewer bugs than KDE 4.
Kicking KDE 3.5 out of Debian is a grave disservice to
loyal Debian users.
--Mike Bird
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On Fri January 14 2011 13:44:12 Ben Hutchings wrote:
> On Fri, Jan 14, 2011 at 10:11:51AM -0800, Mike Bird wrote:
> > The impression I get of Debian is that in order to contribute
> > I need to spend a year or so humoring somebody with a tenth my
> > programming experie
u to Debian's KDE
maintainers for getting this right for Lenny.)
Note that we're not talking coding errors here. We're talking
about abuse of the Debian packaging system so that people can
push their favorite software at the expense of Debian's users.
Apart from
e latest Squeeze.
In that case I won't press this question any further.
Thank you both.
--Mike Bird
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On Sat October 23 2010 10:58:54 Jordan Metzmeier wrote:
> On 10/23/2010 11:55 AM, Mike Bird wrote:
> > On Sat October 23 2010 06:21:35 Julien Cristau wrote:
> >> On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 05:46:38 -0700, Mike Bird wrote:
> >>> Seen in Lenny. Is it really necessary to r
On Sat October 23 2010 06:21:35 Julien Cristau wrote:
> On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 05:46:38 -0700, Mike Bird wrote:
> > Seen in Lenny. Is it really necessary to run apt-cache in order
> > to shut down BIND?
>
> Is it really necessary to send your bug reports to debian-devel?
\_ /usr/bin/python /usr/bin/lsb_release -is
11474 ?S 0:00 \_ sh -c { apt-cache policy
2>/dev/null;
11475 ?D 0:00 \_ apt-cache policy
--Mike Bird
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roblem.
--Mike Bird
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On Thu July 22 2010 13:43:16 Andrei Popescu wrote:
> On Jo, 22 iul 10, 12:13:41, Mike Bird wrote:
> > We actually have a few Testing packages (e.g. WordPress) in our
> > mostly-Stable servers and we backup copies of those Testing packages
> > both on-site and off-site agains
an awful amount of
effort by not making Testing as useful as it could be.
--Mike Bird
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tros then
although I'm actually using Mostly-Stable on my own laptop so that it
matches our servers.
Mostly-Stable is great for (most) servers though.
--Mike Bird
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removed X from Testing for
internal release master reasons - please don't imagine Testing is intended
for real users" syndrome.
I would certainly like to see the kind of Testing you describe.
--Mike Bird
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ou are not a native speaker and obviously don't have a clue of
> what you're saying.
I am a native English speaker. Klaus is perfectly correct. Marc is not.
--Mike Bird
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ocmail.
Excellent. Thank you.
--Mike Bird
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enable/disable it.
Can anyone see any downside?
--Mike Bird
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have the power to carry their
actions through and (d) they haven't listened to reason yet.
So we just watch and laugh sadly and pray that we can keep
our systems secure. Debian has survived worse and it will
survive this mess too.
--Mike Bird
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On Mon May 25 2009 06:03:40 Goswin von Brederlow wrote:
> And how many people with such low power systems do run popcon? How
> many use a custom kernel?
OTOH, none of the non-cmov i386 systems here run popcon either.
--Mike Bird
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On Wed April 1 2009 00:03:10 Sune Vuorela wrote:
> Qoreutils is a reimplementation of the classic tools from coreutils,
> such as ls, mkdir and cp
Thanks but this won't be necessary. We just uploaded a GCC patch
that converts coreutils to use Qt. No source changes are needed.
especially since he's not doing it.
>
> I think he gets to accuse Mike Bird of anything he wants to.
>
> I accuse Mike Bird of being a dolomite.
Et tu Stevie?
--Mike "CaMg(CO3)2" Bird
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with
haps sysadmins that go to the effort of removing udev from
some systems are less likely to install popcon on those systems?
--Mike Bird
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#x27;s
owner doesn't use them then the sysadmin does. Downgrading mtr
is a serious mistake.
Downgrading any packages this close to Lenny is a serious mistake.
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jackals
who delight in ruining the Debian experience for the majority.
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o this in the past three
> months: no, this looks like a very good solution.
No one objected to having apt decide by giving priority
precedence over lexical:
http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2008/05/msg00388.html
The priority solution is more general and provides automatic
consistency betwe
clear over the years why our version
> of testing exists and how it's going to be managed. End of story.
Is the DPL a big enough man to admit he made a mistake and to
end the censorship of people who pointed up problems with the
way the new release team handles Testing?
--Mike Bird
--
It seems to me that it ought to be against policy to use a
maintainer script to delete files belonging to another
non-conflicting non-replacing package, but I haven't found
such a policy.
Does anyone have the answer so I can give it to reportbug?
TIA,
--Mike Bird
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FWIW, adding "-9" to the gzip in mkinitramfs gives a
0.5% saving, which may help with some marginal cases.
OTOH using bzip2 instead of gzip saves 10.5% but I have
no idea how much work it would take to support bzip'd
initrd's.
--Mike Bird
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ange
could make that work much more relevant and useful for desktops
and laptops and newer servers, and without harming Stable.
> End of story.
ACK DPL. EOF.
--Mike Bird
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filtered package list would become the next Stable.
This keeps Testing as it has historically been - more stable
than Unstable and the best Debian for recent hardware.
--Mike Bird
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strongly supports user empowerment,
e.g. "We will place their interests first in our priorities."
(4) Therefore, the laudable but minor goal of reducing clutter is not
a DSC-compatible reason for ignoring users' interests.
--Mike Bird
[1] http://www.debian.org/social_contra
ian users with recent
desktop or laptop hardware?
--Mike Bird
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On Mon June 2 2008 18:52:29 Manoj Srivastava wrote:
> On Mon, 2 Jun 2008 13:22:28 -0700, Mike Bird <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
> > A thing is best characterized by what it does and how it is used
> > rather than by the name we associate with it. For a moment let's
> &g
On Mon June 2 2008 17:38:53 Lucas Nussbaum wrote:
> On 02/06/08 at 15:04 -0700, Mike Bird wrote:
> > "Don't create 20-day removal hints for packages with RC bugs
> > except when its too late for a fix to be included in the
> > forthcoming release".
>
> Yo
n and
ad hominem attacks from those who should know better. If
there's code that needs to be updated I'll be happy to send
you a patch if you point me to the source, but my (possibly
faulty) understanding is that release team members were
generating the remove hints manually.
--Mike Bir
coerce DDs into fixing RC bugs. They make Debian harder
to use, harder to test, and harder to improve. Debian
would be better without these holes.
There are better processes for reducing RC counts and
improving Debian without crippling "Debian Desktop Edition".
--Mike Bird
--
To U
On Mon June 2 2008 19:05:38 Luk Claes wrote:
> Mike Bird wrote:
> > A good idea but it doesn't go far enough. Personally I don't find
> > d-i tasks to be any more important than "the packages I need", and
> > I suspect millions of Debian users have equival
ally desktop or
laptop users who need Testing for hardware support.
Artificially lowering the RC count in Testing is not always
preferential to keeping Testing in a state amenable to testing.
--Mike Bird
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On Fri May 30 2008 10:20:51 Russ Allbery wrote:
> Mike Bird <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > All packages on live servers and workstations are installed with "dpkg
> > -i" to ensure we're using a tested combination. We could manually copy
> > the packag
On Thu May 29 2008 16:58:41 Russ Allbery wrote:
> Mike Bird <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > Many people do extra levels of testing before
> > rolling out updates with "dpkg -i". With "apt-get"
> > you never know when the package lists will be update
e package lists will be updated.
--Mike Bird
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age priorities in resolving disjunctions,
a possible solution would be for apt to do so.
--Mike Bird
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On Thu May 15 2008 10:34:01 Peter Samuelson wrote:
> Who is this "we"? Whose serious efforts? Who is investigating? Most
> importantly, should we assume that, as in the past, you, Mike Bird,
> intend to do nothing but talk?
Debian is still one of the world's be
(or several orders of magnitude
less likely), and preparing Debian's response for the next disaster.
--Mike Bird
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ed as a flippant attitude to this disaster.
--Mike Bird
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On Sat May 10 2008 12:14:22 Julien Cristau wrote:
> On Sat, May 10, 2008 at 12:09:52 -0700, Mike Bird wrote:
> > On Sat May 10 2008 11:03:40 Julien Cristau wrote:
> > > On Sat, May 10, 2008 at 10:59:44 -0700, Mike Bird wrote:
> > > > How should a package depen
libcap2 version 2.08-2 in Lenny just changed priority from required
to optional. The package itself didn't change. Is there a package
or some other object that tracks priority changes, ideally via
packages.qa.debian.org or packages.debian.org or similar.
TIA,
--Mike Bird
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oo. I haven't figured out why.
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ote that once installed, people of all skill levels
are very happy using Debian.
--Mike Bird
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On Thu April 3 2008 14:38:14 Moritz Muehlenhoff wrote:
> On 2008-04-03, Mike Bird <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Stable is a poor solution for desktops because it doesn't support
> > recent hardware. For a long time now we've had to run Testing
> > mixed with
t hardware in a stable manner but
the pain is real and we may have to switch desktops back to Ubuntu.
--Mike Bird
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s going to have
> the biggest impact on mirror size, mirroring time, CD set size, and
> download times for users.
Lucas made a good point. Better to save 20% on ten 10MB packages than
saving 10% on one 100MB package.
Although we can probably have both, modulo decompression RAM issues.
towards finding a solution, and that is to recognise the problem.
It doesn't have to be like dpkg. Take a look at the TeX maintainers.
They do a wonderful job despite a very challenging upstream. Maybe we
can find a clue to a solution by examining the teams that work well.
--Mike Bird
iques in parallel.
2) Issue warning message and try to boot cliques in lexical order.
3) Issue warning message and try to boot cliques in installation order.
--Mike Bird
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On Sun March 30 2008 14:01:33 Raphael Hertzog wrote:
> On Sun, 30 Mar 2008, Mike Bird wrote:
> > THANK YOU IAN for persisting with triggers despite the tedious delays by
> > blistering incompetents. And thanks Joey for the interesting use cases.
>
> Ian has nothing to do
On Sun March 30 2008 13:25:15 Joey Hess wrote:
> dpkg in experimental supports triggers now
THANK YOU IAN for persisting with triggers despite the tedious delays by
blistering incompetents. And thanks Joey for the interesting use cases.
--Mike Bird
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itectures fall by the wayside for lack of
interest then so be it. Better to lose several 0.1% architectures
than for Debian as a whole to continue the slide towards irrelevance.
--Mike Bird
[0] http://popcon.debian.org/
; mode which was larger and
slower than "large" although I forget the details. IIRC, the Mark
Williams compiler for the 8086 also supported a "tiny" mode which code
and data in the same 16-bit segment.
Beware that these names have radically different meanings on some
architectures[0].
--Mike Bird
[0] http://www.esacademy.com/automation/docs/c51primer/c02.htm#2.1.2
ver developers-reference.
Ian appears to have chosen to speak truth to power rather than
forking. Do you have a constructive alternative to suggest?
--Mike Bird
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h the task instead of time-wasting.
AFTER the long-delayed features have been merged and any remaining patches
have been picked up from the BTS would be an appropriate time to think
about refactorings.
--Mike Bird
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Hi Guillem,
Ian wrote that you recently committed 402 diff lines of stuff
like this:
-static void usage(void) {
+void
+usage(void)
+{
It's easy to see negatives such as making it harder to merge
long-awaited features. What positives do you see for Debian?
--Mike Bird
essary" homework you could have saved the readers
of this thread the "necessity" of ignoring your post?
needed[2]:
To want strongly; to feel that one must have something.
Example:
After ten days of hiking, I needed a shower and a shave.
--Mike Bird
[2] http://en.wi
On Sun March 9 2008 18:40:25 Marc 'HE' Brockschmidt wrote:
> Mike Bird <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > In simple terms: "dpkg triggers" is a highly desirable precondition for
> > dependency-based initscripts, but so are several other preconditions,
>
On Sun March 9 2008 17:30:51 Daniel Stone wrote:
> [Not subscribed, Cc if you want me to see it.]
>
> On Sun, Mar 09, 2008 at 01:19:58PM -0800, Mike Bird wrote:
> > Ian hijacked his own program back from the people who had been blocking
> > updates for six months
>
&
On Sun March 9 2008 16:07:58 Marc 'HE' Brockschmidt wrote:
> Mike Bird <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > Ian hijacked his own program back from the people who had been blocking
> > updates for six months - including the triggers enhancement which is
> > neede
On Sun March 9 2008 14:46:50 Cyril Brulebois wrote:
> On 09/03/2008, Mike Bird wrote:
> > Ian hijacked his own program back from the people who had been
> > blocking updates for six months - including the triggers enhancement
> > which is needed for boot time improvements
>
back to the
obstructionists. If Anthony has posted an explanation I have not seen
it. You will recall Anthony - he alienated many Debian developers with
the Dunk-Tank fiaco and thereby significantly delayed the release of Etch.
This apparently makes Anthony a natural ally of the dpkg blocking team.
d work their way up through
simpler programming tasks before taking on something as crucial as dpkg.
On the other hand, fer crissake Ian stop using 0 for NULL! You can use
(char*)NULL if it helps.
--Mike Bird
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On Wed March 5 2008 14:52:04 Raphael Hertzog wrote:
> On Wed, 05 Mar 2008, Mike Bird wrote:
> > Please post the URL for this policy. I apologize if you've already
> > posted and I missed it, but Google couldn't find it for me.
>
> http://wiki.debian.org/Teams/Dp
On Wed March 5 2008 13:30:06 Otavio Salvador wrote:
> Mike Bird <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > On Wed March 5 2008 12:29:08 Raphael Hertzog wrote:
> >> I've been added to dpkg's Uploader a few weeks ago, I'm not dpkg's main
> >> coordinator.
objects here
within 48 hours that Ian should proceed with his update?
--Mike Bird
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aphael seems to have the power to block your packages but he has
no rational excuse. Can the tech committee overrule Raphael or
does Debian need to fork a dpkg under more sensible maintainers?
--Mike Bird
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ature and have the new
developer restart development of the trivial new feature from scratch.
--Mike Bird
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On Fri February 29 2008 09:26:32 Henrique de Moraes Holschuh wrote:
> On Fri, 29 Feb 2008, Mike Bird wrote:
> > I'm not a DD but I've been programming since 1963 when I was 7.
> > Based on decades of software engineering experience, I would
> > just like to remin
Ian's productivity, and the teacher of such a
class might help Guillem develop his skills better than Ian could.
--Mike Bird
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that could be better spent
programming or packaging or playing with the grandkids.
--Mike Bird
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s for #281057 and #432893, and my implementation of `Breaks'
> support in dselect, are outstanding too, since early November.
For those like me with short memories, would you mind (re-)posting links to
the specs for Triggers and Breaks and any other features you're suggesting.
T
dentify any benefit that cannot be
achieved with less disruption.
In short, the sole dubious identified benefit can be easily achieved
by an alternative approach that is non-disruptive.
--Mike Bird
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t the unnecessary reordering
has no side-effects?
Would you mind repeating the (hopefully automated) proof for each Lenny
release candidate?
Thanks,
--Mike Bird
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breakage on naive Debian users: none.
--Mike Bird
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to expect of /bin/sh.
--Mike Bird
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ebian making it easy for
/bin/sh to be changed by those Debian users who wish to make such a
change, possibly even during D-I.
--Mike Bird
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On Mon February 11 2008 06:53:43 Adam Borowski wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 11, 2008 at 01:33:54AM -0800, Mike Bird wrote:
> > On *production* Debian systems, saving 30 seconds in a boot
> > which may occur once a year for a kernel security update is
> > not worth a single broken
tiny shell scripts in the big wide world are written by
people who are not the best of programmers.
--Mike Bird
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