(2-in-1 reply.)
Ansgar (2023-05-19):
> On Fri, 2023-05-19 at 20:57 +0200, Bjørn Mork wrote:
> > Hmm. I find the netboot installer archives very useful for rescue
> > purposes. This sometimes involves PC hardware too old for amd64. I
> > PXE booted a 20+ year old laptop with no DVD/CD drive (Com
Package: wnpp
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Owner: Zixing Liu
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* Package name: libjs-elasticlunr-js
Version : 1.0.1
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On 2023-05-19 12:42 +0100, Steve McIntyre wrote:
> If they're still running
> i386 *hardware*, then they should be replacing that hardware with more
> modern, more capable, more *efficient* stuff.
I'm still using an i386 early acer netbook. (I even just upgraded it 4
releases from Wheezy to Bookwo
On Tue, May 16, 2023 at 09:04:10PM -0700, Steve Langasek wrote:
> Based on the analysis to date, we can say there is a lower bound of ~4900
> source packages which will need to be rebuilt for the transition, and an
> upper bound of ~6200. I believe this is a manageable transition, and
> propose th
On Fri, 2023-05-19 at 19:40 +0100, James Addison wrote:
> Do we know how often the i386 installer is downloaded compared to
> amd64, and could/should we start with updated messaging where those
> are provided before removing users' ability to install on their
> systems?
>
> (i386 remains the secon
Ansgar writes:
> On Fri, 2023-05-19 at 20:57 +0200, Bjørn Mork wrote:
>> Hmm. I find the netboot installer archives very useful for rescue
>> purposes. This sometimes involves PC hardware too old for amd64. I PXE
>> booted a 20+ year old laptop with no DVD/CD drive (Compaq Evo N410c - CD
>> dri
On Fri, 2023-05-19 at 20:57 +0200, Bjørn Mork wrote:
> Hmm. I find the netboot installer archives very useful for rescue
> purposes. This sometimes involves PC hardware too old for amd64. I PXE
> booted a 20+ year old laptop with no DVD/CD drive (Compaq Evo N410c - CD
> drive was part of the opti
Steve McIntyre writes:
> I had been thinking about doing similar for installer images too, but
> with other work going on too I think it got too late in the cycle to
> make that change. My plan is therefore to ship i386 installer images
> for bookworm as normal (including bookworm point releases
On Fri, 19 May 2023 at 12:42, Steve McIntyre wrote:
>
> I'm planning on stopping publishing installer images for i386
> soon. Why? We should be strongly encouraging users to move away from
> it as a main architecture. If they're still installing i386 on 64-bit
> hardware, then that's a horrible mi
Am 19.05.23 um 19:23 schrieb Cyril Brulebois:
Hi,
Andrew M.A. Cater (2023-05-19):
I'd honestly suggest *just* publishing DVD1 for i386.
Netinst requires internet access: DVD1 can be used to install a basic
system without this. Scrap *everything else* for i386 installation media.
I'm not sur
Hi!
On Fri, 2023-05-19 at 12:42:32 +0100, Steve McIntyre wrote:
> Guillem Jover wrote:
> >On Thu, 2023-05-18 at 12:01:40 -0700, Steve Langasek wrote:
> >> > […], I'm also dubious about this, and introduces a special case
> >> > and complexity that does not seem warranted TBH. If this was the case
Steve Langasek wrote:
>
>On Fri, May 19, 2023 at 12:42:32PM +0100, Steve McIntyre wrote:
>> >If the main reason is to support non-free binaries, at least to me
>> >that does not seem like a very compelling reason. And people can
>> >always use old chroots or similar I guess?
>
>> i386 is in a reall
Am 19.05.23 um 17:30 schrieb Simon McVittie:
On Fri, 19 May 2023 at 09:19:35 -0500, G. Branden Robinson wrote:
I have to ask how someone would conduct an install to a 32-bit x86 machine
running under emulation, assuming no OS on the simulated machine.
I see four levels of support that we could
Andrew Cater wrote:
>On Fri, May 19, 2023 at 03:03:40PM +0100, Steve McIntyre wrote:
>>
>> I had been thinking about doing similar for installer images too, but
>> with other work going on too I think it got too late in the cycle to
>> make that change. My plan is therefore to ship i386 installer
Am 19.05.23 um 17:35 schrieb Ansgar:
I suggest to already document this in the release notes for bookworm,
possibly in Section 2.1 (Supported architectures) or a subsection in
Section 5 (Issues to be aware of for bookworm).
Maybe something along these lines:
+---
| Debian 12 is expected to be
Colin Watson wrote:
>On Fri, May 19, 2023 at 09:19:35AM -0500, G. Branden Robinson wrote:
>> Well, maybe not a strong view, but a sense of vague unease--possibly an
>> ill-informed one. As someone who has used SIMH for "real" work[1], I
>> have to ask how someone would conduct an install to a 32-b
Hi,
Andrew M.A. Cater (2023-05-19):
> I'd honestly suggest *just* publishing DVD1 for i386.
>
> Netinst requires internet access: DVD1 can be used to install a basic
> system without this. Scrap *everything else* for i386 installation media.
I'm not sure how dropping one netinst ISO is going to
On Fri, May 19, 2023 at 03:03:40PM +0100, Steve McIntyre wrote:
> Luca Boccassi wrote:
> >On Fri, 19 May 2023 at 12:42, Steve McIntyre wrote:
> >>
> >> I'm planning on stopping publishing installer images for i386
> >> soon. Why? We should be strongly encouraging users to move away from
> >> it as
On Fri, May 19, 2023 at 04:30:56PM +0100, Simon McVittie wrote:
> On Fri, 19 May 2023 at 09:19:35 -0500, G. Branden Robinson wrote:
> > I have to ask how someone would conduct an install to a 32-bit x86 machine
> > running under emulation, assuming no OS on the simulated machine.
> I see four leve
On Fri, May 19, 2023 at 09:19:35AM -0500, G. Branden Robinson wrote:
> I think simulation of 32-bit x86 will get _more_ important as year 2038
> approaches, not less, because in about 2037, people will suddenly notice
> they need to test things before deployment.
Ah but if Debian doesn't support i
On Fri, May 19, 2023 at 12:42:32PM +0100, Steve McIntyre wrote:
> >If the main reason is to support non-free binaries, at least to me
> >that does not seem like a very compelling reason. And people can
> >always use old chroots or similar I guess?
> i386 is in a really awkward situation here, I th
Package: release-notes
X-Debbugs-Cc: Steve McIntyre , debian-devel@lists.debian.org
On Fri, 2023-05-19 at 15:03 +0100, Steve McIntyre wrote:
> I had been thinking about doing similar for installer images too, but
> with other work going on too I think it got too late in the cycle to
> make that ch
Hi,
Quoting G. Branden Robinson (2023-05-19 16:19:35)
> > If people have strong opinions about that plan, let us know please.
>
> Well, maybe not a strong view, but a sense of vague unease--possibly an
> ill-informed one. As someone who has used SIMH for "real" work[1], I
> have to ask how someo
On Fri, 19 May 2023 at 09:19:35 -0500, G. Branden Robinson wrote:
> I have to ask how someone would conduct an install to a 32-bit x86 machine
> running under emulation, assuming no OS on the simulated machine.
I see four levels of support that we could reasonably have for i386:
1. same as in rec
At 2023-05-19T15:32:40+0100, Colin Watson wrote:
> I occasionally use 32-bit x86 even today (mostly for not very good
> historical reasons, but nevertheless), and I do it by using a 32-bit
> container on a 64-bit x86 machine instead. It's much faster to run,
> and it doesn't depend on installer su
On Fri, May 19, 2023 at 09:19:35AM -0500, G. Branden Robinson wrote:
> Well, maybe not a strong view, but a sense of vague unease--possibly an
> ill-informed one. As someone who has used SIMH for "real" work[1], I
> have to ask how someone would conduct an install to a 32-bit x86 machine
> running
At 2023-05-19T15:03:40+0100, Steve McIntyre wrote:
> Luca Boccassi wrote:
> >+1 for stopping publishing installers for i386, it has been mentioned
> >many times but it's always worth repeating: electricity costs to keep
> >running i386 hardware are already way higher than what it costs to
> >buy a
Luca Boccassi wrote:
>On Fri, 19 May 2023 at 12:42, Steve McIntyre wrote:
>>
>> I'm planning on stopping publishing installer images for i386
>> soon. Why? We should be strongly encouraging users to move away from
>> it as a main architecture. If they're still installing i386 on 64-bit
>> hardware
On Fri, 19 May 2023 at 12:42, Steve McIntyre wrote:
>
> Guillem Jover wrote:
> >On Thu, 2023-05-18 at 12:01:40 -0700, Steve Langasek wrote:
>
> ...
>
> >> > > * … but NOT on i386. Because i386 as an architecture is primarily of
> >> > > interest for running legacy binaries which cannot be rebui
Guillem Jover wrote:
>On Thu, 2023-05-18 at 12:01:40 -0700, Steve Langasek wrote:
...
>> > > * ⦠but NOT on i386. Because i386 as an architecture is primarily of
>> > > interest for running legacy binaries which cannot be rebuilt against a
>> > > new
>> > > ABI, changing the ABI on i386
On Fri, 19 May 2023 at 01:30, Simon Richter wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> On 5/18/23 18:08, Luca Boccassi wrote:
>
> >> Without it, leaving them in place makes no difference for usrmerged
> >> systems, and allows derived distributions that don't need usrmerge to
> >> continue using our packages.
>
> > Not qu
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