On Sun, 12 May 2013 10:40:53 +0800, Thomas Goirand
wrote:
>On 05/12/2013 03:44 AM, Roger Leigh wrote:
>> We all saw where GNOME took use with their lack of choice: an
>> unusable trainwreck. It's a disgrace that this shipped as the
>> default desktop for wheezy, it really is.
>
>Like for everythi
On Sun, May 12, 2013 at 01:43:31PM +0800, Thomas Goirand wrote:
> Since it ever existed, I wrote my debian/copyright file using the
> new format. It's quite well established, and it isn't hard to do
> the switch. It is just a bit boring work though.
>
> I do think it would be nice to be able to pa
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On 05/06/2013 08:49 PM, Andreas Beckmann wrote:
> Hi,
>
> now might be the right time to start a discussion about release goals
> for jessie. Here are some points that come into my mind right now (and
> some were already discussed very recently):
>
> * multiarch compatible binNMUs
> * discarding ma
Hi,
Quoting Paul Wise (2013-05-12 04:03:54)
> Another one I would like is to be able to depend or build-dep on
> foo:build-depends or foo [Build-Depends] (or by extension foo:depends), which
> would mean we could get rid of the ugly hack that is mk-build-deps.
Should a dependency of a source pack
On 05/12/2013 03:44 AM, Roger Leigh wrote:
> We all saw where GNOME took use with their lack of choice: an
> unusable trainwreck. It's a disgrace that this shipped as the
> default desktop for wheezy, it really is.
Like for everything in Debian, this is bound to someone killing
the concept of a d
On Sun, May 12, 2013 at 1:03 AM, Wookey wrote:
> I'd vote for that too, as it would be very helpful for
> cross-toolchain building. I hadn't realised that source build-deps
> was a possibility. Is it? Does anyone have a proposal for how it might
> work?
It isn't a possibility yet, it could be if
+++ Steve Langasek [2013-05-11 09:33 -0700]:
> On Sat, May 11, 2013 at 11:22:10AM +0200, Goswin von Brederlow wrote:
> > While that might be of some interest the real goal of the change was
> > to be able to have more than *2* packages provide /bin/sh.
>
> > Currently, due to the totaly screwed u
On 2013-05-10 14:57:46 +0200, Piotr Ożarowski wrote:
> [Charles Plessy, 2013-05-09]
> > For a large number of packages if not all, we should allow the
> > package maintainers to manually migrate their packages to Testing during the
> > Freeze, within boundaries set on debian-devel-announc
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On 2013-05-09 00:25:06 +0200, Jakub Wilk wrote:
> Let me try to explain where the difference lies. Consider the following
> sequences of uploads:
>
> foo_4
> foo_5
> foo_1:4
> foo_1:6
>
> bar_4
> bar_5
> bar_5really4
> bar_6
>
> Two kind of "bugs" in (build-)dependencies on these packages could
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Thorsten Glaser writes:
> Steve Langasek debian.org> writes:
>
>> This is not a sensible goal. Choice of /bin/sh should *not* be the goal,
>> the goal should be to get a good, fast, minimal, policy-compliant /bin/sh
>> for *everyone*.
>
> Sure. We just disagree which one that is.
>
>> See also:
On Sat, 2013-05-11 at 22:08 +0200, Josselin Mouette wrote:
> Le samedi 11 mai 2013 à 20:44 +0100, Roger Leigh a écrit :
> > I can't agree with having no choice with regard to init. We aren't
> > all using GNOME, and Debian is used in an extremely diverse set of
> > fields for a multitude of diffe
On Sat, May 11, 2013 at 8:08 PM, Josselin Mouette wrote:
> Le samedi 11 mai 2013 à 20:44 +0100, Roger Leigh a écrit :
>> We all saw where GNOME took use with their lack of choice: an
>> unusable trainwreck.
>
> This is your opinion. There are other users who happen to value features
> over configu
>Debian is about Free Software.
Actually, about Free Users, isn't it?
http://mako.cc/copyrighteous/freedom-for-users-not-for-software
bye,
//mirabilos
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2013/5/12 Josselin Mouette :
> GNOME depends on a working glibc, too. Does it dictate the C library?
Yes. Portability still makes sense. Portability is a part of the word
"Free" in "Free Software".
Debian is about Free Software.
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Le samedi 11 mai 2013 à 20:44 +0100, Roger Leigh a écrit :
> I can't agree with having no choice with regard to init. We aren't
> all using GNOME, and Debian is used in an extremely diverse set of
> fields for a multitude of different purposes. No one init is
> appropriate for all of these appli
On Sat, May 11, 2013 at 08:52:29PM +0200, Josselin Mouette wrote:
> Being able to choose between two entirely different desktop
> environments, with different user experiences, is a good thing.
> Being able to choose between two /bin/sh shells or two /sbin/init
> implementations is not.
The shell
2013/5/11 Josselin Mouette :
> We have had two releases with kfreebsd, which failed to
> provide anything usable. Debian is only about Linux, and has always
> been.
I have some news about it ;-)
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Le 2013-05-10 17:24, Russ Allbery a écrit :
But by and large they only do this on a large scale during the freeze,
at
which point, in a way, it's too late. We've already built a huge
backlog
of work, and everyone is anxious to release. I think we should be
doing
this continuously during the
Le samedi 11 mai 2013 à 18:53 +, Thorsten Glaser a écrit :
> >I believe you are being needlessly rude right now. Please keep in mind
>
> Probably… but I think Canonical employees and *buntu developers have
> a conflict of interest, which *does* have “interesting” effects, such
> as wheezy re
On 2013-05-11 20:53, Thorsten Glaser wrote:
> [...]
>> that:
>>
>> """
>> The Debian Project welcomes and encourages participation by everyone. """[1]
>>
>> That includes Canonical and *buntu.
>
> … but that doesn’t give either preferential treatment.
>
I never said that and I never said I took
Niels Thykier dixit:
>I believe you are being needlessly rude right now. Please keep in mind
Probably… but I think Canonical employees and *buntu developers have
a conflict of interest, which *does* have “interesting” effects, such
as wheezy releasing with different gcc versions being default ac
Le samedi 11 mai 2013 à 18:26 +, Thorsten Glaser a écrit :
> > See also: Linux is not about choice.
>
> Debian is not just about Linux.
Yes it is. We have had two releases with kfreebsd, which failed to
provide anything usable. Debian is only about Linux, and has always
been.
> In Debian, D
On Sat, May 11, 2013 at 08:17:51PM +0200, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
> Quoting Steve Langasek (2013-05-11 18:33:03)
> > On Sat, May 11, 2013 at 11:22:10AM +0200, Goswin von Brederlow wrote:
> > > [...] the real goal of the change was to be able to have more than
> > > *2* packages provide /bin/sh.
>
On 2013-05-11 20:26, Thorsten Glaser wrote:
> Oh, sorry, I forgot, you work for Canonical (which totally explains some
> of your writings in the other eMail too, which I’m not going to comment
> on). Of course, for *buntu people it’s not about choice.
>
> Now please take that attitude and go back
2013/5/11 Aron Xu :
> An easy example is that, on Solaris, there is a something called boot
> environment (BE), which is essentially snapshots of the combination of
> /usr and /boot, users can switch between different BEs easily without
> affecting any user data. Without /usr merge, doing such work
Steve Langasek debian.org> writes:
> This is not a sensible goal. Choice of /bin/sh should *not* be the goal,
> the goal should be to get a good, fast, minimal, policy-compliant /bin/sh
> for *everyone*.
Sure. We just disagree which one that is.
> See also: Linux is not about choice.
Debian i
Quoting Steve Langasek (2013-05-11 18:33:03)
> On Sat, May 11, 2013 at 11:22:10AM +0200, Goswin von Brederlow wrote:
> > [...] the real goal of the change was to be able to have more than
> > *2* packages provide /bin/sh.
>
> > Currently, due to the totaly screwed up way this is done, only dash
On Wed, May 8, 2013 at 12:52 AM, Marco d'Itri wrote:
> On May 07, Jonathan Dowland wrote:
>
>> > If we do this, I'd prefer to make /usr a symlink to / on new installs
>> I've always thought that myself, but it seems most folks who are pro
>> merge tend to propose going the other way. I've never u
On Sat, May 11, 2013 at 06:32:21PM +0800, Thomas Goirand wrote:
> Hi Lars,
>
> I do like a lot the idea of running things like piuparts and such at
> upload time.
> If you have time to work this out with the FTP masters, that would be a very
> good idea IMO, and I warmly welcome you to do that. Ho
On Sat, May 11, 2013 at 04:06:38PM +, Thorsten Glaser wrote:
> And I absolutely do not buy the argument that Debian does not
> have enough manpower to keep the / vs. /usr separation (for many
> use cases) working.
https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2012/08/msg00858.html
When you've demon
Le vendredi 10 mai 2013 à 14:46 +0100, Roger Leigh a écrit :
> > There are various benefits, discussed before at length (here,
> > elsewhere). Suggesting/summarizing this as "satisfying Lennart" is a bit
> > telling.
>
> It's still entirely accurate though. This is ultimately being driven by
> u
+++ Stephen Kitt [2013-05-09 10:46 +0200]:
> On Thu, 9 May 2013 10:10:01 +0200, Mike Hommey wrote:
> > * source build dependencies (such that e.g binutils-mingw-w64 build
> > depends on src:binutils instead of binutils-source)
>
> Yes! That was on my list as well ;-). The Built-Using stanza co
On Sat, May 11, 2013 at 11:22:10AM +0200, Goswin von Brederlow wrote:
> On Tue, May 07, 2013 at 07:46:43PM +0200, Marc Haber wrote:
> > On Tue, 7 May 2013 16:46:46 +0200, m...@linux.it (Marco d'Itri) wrote:
> > >On May 07, Thorsten Glaser wrote:
> > >> My stated goal here is, indeed, to be able to
Goswin von Brederlow web.de> writes:
> Add 2 more if dash and mksh build static flavours too. posh, ksh93,
mksh already builds a static flavour ;-) It’s just not an mksh-static
separate binary package because waldi, who kindly sponsored my first
several uploads, taught me that binary packages ar
Marco d'Itri Linux.IT> writes:
> People use live CDs for rescue all the time, do you have some data which
> show that this is actually a problem in real life and not an imaginary
I’ve had Knoppix destroy the nvram of my laptop’s graphics chipset.
(I sent it in, and all they apparently did was
Goswin von Brederlow web.de> writes:
> I would say that a foreign dependency on a library is never right. If
Nope. I’m waiting for support for that for pcc.
(And that pcc CVS HEAD gets stable/usable again, but that’s
a totally different issue.)
bye,
//mirabilos
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On 2013-05-11 11:22 +0200, Goswin von Brederlow wrote:
> While that might be of some interest the real goal of the change was
> to be able to have more than *2* packages provide /bin/sh.
>
> Currently, due to the totaly screwed up way this is done, only dash or
> bash can be /bin/sh.
I think that
Christoph Egger wrote:
>Hi!
>
>Barry Warsaw writes:
>> For the 13.04 release, Ubuntu made a change to its procedure whereby
>> source-only uploads to the development release (e.g. raring) actually
>go to
>> e.g. raring-proposed first. The builds are attempted and only if
>they
>> succeed, pas
Joachim Breitner wrote:
>Hi,
>
>Am Freitag, den 10.05.2013, 16:05 -0400 schrieb Barry Warsaw:
>> For the 13.04 release, Ubuntu made a change to its procedure whereby
>> source-only uploads to the development release (e.g. raring) actually
>go to
>> e.g. raring-proposed first. The builds are at
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Josselin Mouette wrote:
> Hi10p is a useless hack that makes videos unreadable with hardware
> acceleration. I wouldn’t recommend using it in the general case. The
The "useless hack" part is false. 10-bit H264 is a clear improvement in
video compression for some types of videos. Existing hardware
There have been various discussions about how to change the release process
I'm not personally convinced that the process is fundamentally flawed.
If there are still as many wheezy systems in 10 years as there are
Windows XP machines in corporations today, then people won't remember
the freeze i
]] Johannes Schauer
> Maybe the puppet question can just be solved by introducing an openstack task?
puppet isn't important because it's used by/part of openstack (which I
don't think it is?) It's important because it's a tool lots of
sysadmins use to automate their infrastructures. Also, it's
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Hi Lars,
I do like a lot the idea of running things like piuparts and such at
upload time.
If you have time to work this out with the FTP masters, that would be a very
good idea IMO, and I warmly welcome you to do that. However...
On 05/10/2013 03:49 AM, Lars Wirzenius wrote:
> Tests for running
Hi,
Am Samstag, den 11.05.2013, 12:00 +0200 schrieb Christoph Egger:
> Barry Warsaw writes:
> > For the 13.04 release, Ubuntu made a change to its procedure whereby
> > source-only uploads to the development release (e.g. raring) actually go to
> > e.g. raring-proposed first. The builds are atte
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Hi!
Barry Warsaw writes:
> For the 13.04 release, Ubuntu made a change to its procedure whereby
> source-only uploads to the development release (e.g. raring) actually go to
> e.g. raring-proposed first. The builds are attempted and only if they
> succeed, pass their autopkgtests, *and* don't ma
On Sat, May 11, 2013 at 11:43:25AM +0200, Bill Allombert wrote:
> On Fri, May 10, 2013 at 10:44:25PM +0200, Peter Palfrader wrote:
> > On Fri, 10 May 2013, Bill Allombert wrote:
> >
> > > I am considering activating encryption of popularity-contest submissions
> > > using public key cryptography t
On Fri, May 10, 2013 at 09:53:25PM +0100, Ian Jackson wrote:
> Bill Allombert writes ("encrypted popcon submissions"):
> > The drawback is the computing cost on the server. Currently we are
> > processing about 25000 report each days, which would require about 2
> > hours of 'real' CPU time to decr
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On Fri, May 10, 2013 at 10:44:25PM +0200, Peter Palfrader wrote:
> On Fri, 10 May 2013, Bill Allombert wrote:
>
> > I am considering activating encryption of popularity-contest submissions
> > using public key cryptography to protect popcon submission while in transit.
>
> Do you think the benefi
On Wed, May 08, 2013 at 11:57:58AM +0200, Stephen Kitt wrote:
> Let me explain where I'm coming from... With MinGW-w64, we have a set of
> compilers, headers and libraries which allow building software targeting
> native Windows, without Cygwin or much in the way of wrappers at all. This is
> defin
Hi,
Quoting Paul Wise (2013-05-11 10:40:18)
> Lucas created a script that displays a list of "important" packages, puppet
> isn't on that either:
>
> http://udd.debian.org/cgi-bin/important_packages.cgi
Not surprising as the algorithm (from what can be read in the comments)
executes what we call
On Tue, May 07, 2013 at 10:31:10PM +0100, Wookey wrote:
> +++ Stephen Kitt [2013-05-07 14:38 +0200]:
> > Hi Wookey,
> >
> > On Tue, 7 May 2013 03:04:50 +0100, Wookey wrote:
> > > (just a decision to leave arch-independent headers in /usr/include and
> > > move arch-dependent headers to /usr/inclu
On Tue, May 07, 2013 at 07:46:43PM +0200, Marc Haber wrote:
> On Tue, 7 May 2013 16:46:46 +0200, m...@linux.it (Marco d'Itri) wrote:
> >On May 07, Thorsten Glaser wrote:
> >> My stated goal here is, indeed, to be able to run at least some useful
> >> configurations of a Debian installation without
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Hi,
Am Freitag, den 10.05.2013, 16:05 -0400 schrieb Barry Warsaw:
> For the 13.04 release, Ubuntu made a change to its procedure whereby
> source-only uploads to the development release (e.g. raring) actually go to
> e.g. raring-proposed first. The builds are attempted and only if they
> succeed,
On Tue, May 07, 2013 at 09:34:09PM +0100, Noel David Torres Taño wrote:
> On Lunes, 6 de mayo de 2013 13:49:57 Andreas Beckmann wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > now might be the right time to start a discussion about release goals
> > for jessie. Here are some points that come into my mind right now (and
>
On Jo, 09 mai 13, 20:49:51, Lars Wirzenius wrote:
>
> The fundamental change is to start keeping our "testing" branch
> as close to releasable as possible, at all times.
It's probably obvious for debian-devel readers, but I think it is worth
saying it out loud: this would also give us CUT/rolli
On Sat, May 11, 2013 at 4:28 PM, Tollef Fog Heen wrote:
> (Where can I look up what tasks or blends use a given package?)
For the blends part, we plan to add that to the PTS (#703402). I
should extend that to tasks too I think.
Until then, use your favourite rdepends viewer, the aptitude curses
]] Paul Wise
> Agreed. Do you have any example use-cases that should block releases
> but aren't in blends or tasks? Perhaps we need to start some new
> blends or add new tasks.
(Where can I look up what tasks or blends use a given package?)
I don't know if, say, puppet is in a task or a blend,
Processing commands for cont...@bugs.debian.org:
> reassign 707740 gstreamer0.10-ffmpeg
Bug #707740 [general] general: fails with video Hi10p
Bug reassigned from package 'general' to 'gstreamer0.10-ffmpeg'.
Ignoring request to alter found versions of bug #707740 to the same values
previously set
reassign 707740 gstreamer0.10-ffmpeg
thanks
Le vendredi 10 mai 2013 à 16:28 -0500, Yuuji Sakai a écrit :
> fails to convert a video Hi10P, style subs lost (DeVeDe for example
> http://i.imgur.com/LWkmHj2.jpg http://i.imgur.com/n9R4G.png
> http://i.imgur.com/zM0yDKZs.jpg), and show error in some
On 11/05/13 04:35, Paul Wise wrote:
> I think you want to discuss this on the debian-java list instead.
>
The reason I posted here is that the concept is just as viable for other
languages with their own distribution systems (e.g. R and Drupal both
have their own package distribution mechanisms)
On 05/11/2013 08:50 AM, Mailbox wrote:
i aks this list because i will now more about the "lost Interrupt 0x50)
error.
A faulty hard disk, makes other Logentries and this disk are replace by
the vendor this disk is a new/refurbished disk.
And I am still pretty sure your question is off-topic. Th
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