On Monday, April 30, 2012 06:14:19, Riku Voipio wrote:
> On Sat, Apr 28, 2012 at 07:12:42PM -0700, Russ Allbery wrote:
...
> > There's nothing particularly wrong with Exim; it works just fine.
>
> Exim in 2012 not supporting 8BITMIME and thus being the last Major MTA
> forcing quoted-printable con
Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Jonathan McCrohan
* Package name: libphidget
Version : 2.1.8.20120216
Upstream Author : Phidgets Inc.
* URL : http://www.phidgets.com/
* License : LGPL-3
Programming Lang: C
Description : Phidgets runtime library
* Carl Fürstenberg [2012-04-28 03:31 +0200]:
> There has been an log struggle between the nodejs package and the node
> package, which is still unresolved (bug #611698 for example) And I
> wonder now what the future should look like.
In short I think that there is only one sane solution to this an
Charles Plessy writes:
> By the way I would like to add another point, that the split between
> contrib and non-free is not informative. A program in contrib can be
> tightly coupled to a non-free library in a way that would require a
> considerable amount of work to free it. On the other hand,
Le Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 04:24:36PM +0200, Michael Banck a écrit :
> On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 11:13:45PM +0900, Charles Plessy wrote:
> > They may be useless without additional data, but this is the same as
> > drivers that are useless without additional hardware.
>
> I don't buy this analogy - usua
Charles Plessy writes:
> all our packages include a way to pass build flags to the upstream build
> system, in order to implement features such as DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS=noopt.
> It would have been trivial to pass the hardening flags automatically
> through the same communication channel.
I don't und
Le Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 08:15:35AM -0700, Russ Allbery a écrit :
> Charles Plessy writes:
>
> > The problem is: who wants to support what and what for ? I thought that
> > the release goal was to harden Debian, not to fine-grain makefiles in
> > general.
>
> > What I see here is a system that i
On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 09:13:25PM +0100, Jon Dowland wrote:
> I had a plan to package a collection of PWADs ('patch' WADs - levels) as a
> package which I never did. I'm going to see about picking that up tomorrow.
> I've identified two that are "public domain" and featured in a "100 best PWADs
>
On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 22:21, Goswin von Brederlow wrote:
> Aron Xu writes:
>
>> But what if I endianness does matters for those gettext .mo files?
>> Installing them as libfoo-translations-be and libfoo-translations-le
>> will need some change in gettext support of those
>> applications/librari
On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 09:27:19PM +0200, Adam Borowski wrote:
> So it's, of all Doom resources, the lack of _levels_ working with original
> (-llish) Doom code that's the problem? This would sound a lot more dire if
> less than, say, 1/3 of us who remember the times of original Doom made our
> ow
* Vincent Bernat [2012-04-30 20:30 +0200]:
> OoO En ce doux début de matinée du lundi 30 avril 2012, vers 08:15,
> Svante Signell disait :
>
> >> I'm rather sure that he wants to define booting as part of what
> >> currently is done in /etc/rcS.d. Configuring the network or mounting
> >> non
On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 03:55:50PM +0100, Jon Dowland wrote:
> > Or is it that doomsday still needs iwad files on top of the wad
> > files for levels, sprites, and characters?
>
> The problem with Freedoom (which provides all of the above) is that the levels
> in Freedoom make use of features intr
OoO En ce doux début de matinée du lundi 30 avril 2012, vers 08:15,
Svante Signell disait :
>> I'm rather sure that he wants to define booting as part of what
>> currently is done in /etc/rcS.d. Configuring the network or mounting
>> non-essential remote file systems wouldn't be part of thi
On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 01:55:24PM BST, Adam Borowski wrote:
> Not on a laptop or any machine that has to conserve power and avoid
> unnecessary wakeups / disk spin-ups.
Or any device with an SSD or SD card (more and more popular net-tops
nowadays).
> A cronjob every 5 minutes means you need to s
Stefano Zacchiroli writes:
> On Sun, Apr 29, 2012 at 07:18:54PM +0200, Marco d'Itri wrote:
>> Unrelated: you have just shown what poisons Debian and has been keeping
>> us behind innovation for the last years. Not the flamewars themselves,
>> most of us are grown ups and can handle them, but the
On Mon, Apr 23, 2012 at 04:59:00PM +0200, Tollef Fog Heen wrote:
> ]] Harald Dunkel
>
> > How can I tell a Debian package to conflict with a real
> > package "foo", but not with other packages providing "foo"?
>
> Conflicts: foo (>= 0)
>
> since versioned provides don't exist.
Conflicts: foo (
On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 12:50 PM, Roger Leigh wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 12:04:32PM -0300, Fernando Lemos wrote:
>> On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 11:57 AM, Thomas Goirand wrote:
>> > On 04/30/2012 04:56 AM, Fernando Lemos wrote:
>> >> I agree that OpenRC would be an improvement over the status
>>
George Danchev wrote:
> It is entirely possible to manage configuration files from dpkg's
> maintainerscripts (postinst on 'configure' stage, and resp. postrm) as
> you find fit,
> or by means of ucf, and possibly in combination with debconf.
>
> One can ship a bunch of configuration files in /usr
On Mon, 30 Apr 2012 17:11:21 +0300, Uoti Urpala
wrote:
Dmitry Nezhevenko wrote:
On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 02:44:42PM +0300, Uoti Urpala wrote:
> Wrong. Any program behavior change may require changing custom
> configuration, but such changes need not be accompanied by changes
in
> the default co
On 30/04/12 15:21, Goswin von Brederlow wrote:
> With libfoo being in /usr/lib// any endian dependent data
> should be in /usr/lib/// or /usr/lib/ tuple>// (sorry, did we pick one of them as standard yet?),
> which is usualy a configure option.
I think you mean /usr/lib// for the second option?
I
On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 12:04:32PM -0300, Fernando Lemos wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 11:57 AM, Thomas Goirand wrote:
> > On 04/30/2012 04:56 AM, Fernando Lemos wrote:
> >> I agree that OpenRC would be an improvement over the status
> >> quo, but migrating *away* from OpenRC later on would be
On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 04:24:36PM +0200, Michael Banck wrote:
> > They may be useless without additional data, but this is the same as
> > drivers that are useless without additional hardware.
> I don't buy this analogy - usually, drivers are programmed for existing
> (or soon-to-be-existing) hard
* Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) [120430 17:09]:
> Riku Voipio writes:
> > Exim in 2012 not supporting 8BITMIME and thus being the last Major MTA
> > forcing quoted-printable conversions to make emails "7bit clean" is
> > quite horribly wrong.
>
> I didn't realize that. I agree, that's an annoy
Charles Plessy writes:
> The problem is: who wants to support what and what for ? I thought that
> the release goal was to harden Debian, not to fine-grain makefiles in
> general.
> What I see here is a system that is generous of other people's time.
I would have assumed you would just add CPP
On Apr 30, Thomas Goirand wrote:
> On 04/30/2012 05:25 AM, Marco d'Itri wrote:
> > This has been happening more and more after SuSE has become irrelevant.
> What (or what time) are you talking about?
> Has SuSE ever been relevant? :)
In this context it was, because it was the other distribution s
Riku Voipio writes:
> On Sat, Apr 28, 2012 at 07:12:42PM -0700, Russ Allbery wrote:
>> I'm not sure that I see the point, and I say that as someone who
>> replaces Exim with Postfix on all of my boxes.
> Nobody's suggesting you need to change to anything. The worst you have
> to do if debian cha
On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 11:57 AM, Thomas Goirand wrote:
> On 04/30/2012 04:56 AM, Fernando Lemos wrote:
>> I agree that OpenRC would be an improvement over the status
>> quo, but migrating *away* from OpenRC later on would be a major pain
>> as we would have to support both LSB/sysvinit scripts an
On 04/30/2012 04:56 AM, Fernando Lemos wrote:
> I agree that OpenRC would be an improvement over the status
> quo, but migrating *away* from OpenRC later on would be a major pain
> as we would have to support both LSB/sysvinit scripts and OpenRC
> service descriptions for the foreseeable future.
>
On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 10:24:17PM +0800, Thomas Goirand wrote:
> On 04/30/2012 05:33 PM, Jon Dowland wrote:
> > Oh joy-of-joys, a context free drive-by-CC to -devel, and a bug which
> > indicates
> > an NMU without warning, DELAYED queue use or nmudiff, for a package to which
> > the maintainer i
On 04/30/2012 05:25 AM, Marco d'Itri wrote:
> This has been happening more and more after SuSE has become irrelevant.
>
What (or what time) are you talking about?
Has SuSE ever been relevant? :)
Thomas
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Dmitry Nezhevenko wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 02:44:42PM +0300, Uoti Urpala wrote:
> > Wrong. Any program behavior change may require changing custom
> > configuration, but such changes need not be accompanied by changes in
> > the default configuration file. Currently dpkg lacks any mechanism
Le Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 10:46:57AM +0200, Bernhard R. Link a écrit :
> * Charles Plessy [120430 04:31]:
> >
> > When we need to modify a large number of packages in order to propagate a
> > change, isn't this meaning that we are not picking the most efficient
> > defaults ?
>
> As I wrote again,
On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 11:13:45PM +0900, Charles Plessy wrote:
> They may be useless without additional data, but this is the same as
> drivers that are useless without additional hardware.
I don't buy this analogy - usually, drivers are programmed for existing
(or soon-to-be-existing) hardware,
On 04/30/2012 05:33 PM, Jon Dowland wrote:
> Oh joy-of-joys, a context free drive-by-CC to -devel, and a bug which
> indicates
> an NMU without warning, DELAYED queue use or nmudiff, for a package to which
> the maintainer is actively discussing the bug (not MIA), for a maintainer who
> is just be
Aron Xu writes:
> But what if I endianness does matters for those gettext .mo files?
> Installing them as libfoo-translations-be and libfoo-translations-le
> will need some change in gettext support of those
> applications/libraries, that is finding mo files in alternative paths,
> and choosing t
Le Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 09:50:06AM +0200, Sven Joachim a écrit :
> >
> > For all of these, there's no ROM available in the Debian archive, and
> > it'd be hard, if not impossible in some cases, to find some free ROMs.
> > This doesn't prevent the packages to be in main. If you want to
> > challenge
On Sun, Apr 29, 2012 at 07:18:54PM +0200, Marco d'Itri wrote:
> On Apr 29, Russ Allbery wrote:
> > The giant endless flamewars on debian-devel required to make a decision to
> > change anything. :)
>
> Unrelated: you have just shown what poisons Debian and has been keeping
> us behind innovation
On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 08:56:21AM +0200, Bernd Zeimetz wrote:
> How do you define "really available"? When the link is up (and your
> favourite cisco is still blocking traffic to figure out its STP fun?) or
> you default gateway is pingable (and waits for you to start your
> VPN/authentication/wha
On Mon, 30 Apr 2012 14:44:42 +0300, Uoti Urpala
wrote:
Hi,
Dmitry Nezhevenko wrote:
On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 01:49:57AM +0300, Uoti Urpala wrote:
> Marco d'Itri wrote:
> > - configuration files in /etc/ overriding configuration files in
/lib/,
> > to work around the inferior configuration
On 30.04.2012 16:55, Adam Borowski wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 11:58:18AM +0200, Carsten Hey wrote:
>> * Russ Allbery [2012-04-29 17:32 -0700]:
[]
>> If dma would be the default MTA, then it should IMHO be as reliable as
>> possible and even try to prevent user errors. If a user would
>> unin
On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 11:58:18AM +0200, Carsten Hey wrote:
> * Russ Allbery [2012-04-29 17:32 -0700]:
> > Adam Borowski writes:
> > > On Sun, Apr 29, 2012 at 10:50:45PM +0200, Carsten Hey wrote:
> >
> > >> Looks like the DragonFly Mail Agent (dma), which already has been
> > >> mentioned in this
Marco wrote:
>On Apr 29, Jonathan Nieder wrote:
>
>> Claiming that we are at their mercy is ignoring the ability to reason
>> with them.
>The problem is not "reasoning", in my experience Red Hat people will
>promply agree that different distributions can make different choices.
>But nowadays they
On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 02:44:42PM +0300, Uoti Urpala wrote:
> > Currently dpkg allows not only warnings about "some of the cases". It
> > always warns user when config file was changed in package and user edited
> > installed copy. And provides a a nice way to quickly take a look to
> > changes, c
Dmitry Nezhevenko wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 01:49:57AM +0300, Uoti Urpala wrote:
> > Marco d'Itri wrote:
> > > - configuration files in /etc/ overriding configuration files in /lib/,
> > > to work around the inferior configuration files handling of RPM
> >
> > I'm not convinced that the
On Sat, Apr 28, 2012 at 07:12:42PM -0700, Russ Allbery wrote:
> I'm not sure that I see the point, and I say that as someone who
> replaces Exim with Postfix on all of my boxes.
Nobody's suggesting you need to change to anything. The worst you
have to do if debian changed default MTA, would be to
As I'm not involved in developing dma at all, neither upstream nor in
Debian, I'm not the right one to discuss implementation details in depth
with.
* Russ Allbery [2012-04-29 17:32 -0700]:
> Adam Borowski writes:
> > On Sun, Apr 29, 2012 at 10:50:45PM +0200, Carsten Hey wrote:
>
> >> Looks like
On 04/29/2012 03:13 AM, Marco d'Itri wrote:
> Is this the right time to do it?
First lets fix all RC bugs and get other more important things done than
discussing - yet again - the replacement of a well working MTA by a
different well working MTA. Both are equally easy to setup and configure
with
On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 09:50:06AM +0200, Sven Joachim wrote:
> Moving the discussion to debian-devel hereby.
Oh joy-of-joys, a context free drive-by-CC to -devel, and a bug which indicates
an NMU without warning, DELAYED queue use or nmudiff, for a package to which
the maintainer is actively disc
* Charles Plessy [120430 04:31]:
> Sorry to rant again, but am I the only one thinking that we are in most of the
> case wasting everybody's time by not simply passing all the hardening flags by
> default in CFLAGS ? In my experience (and I maintain more than 100 packages),
> it is extremely rare
On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 01:49:57AM +0300, Uoti Urpala wrote:
> Marco d'Itri wrote:
> > I am on friendly terms with many Red Hat people, but it is a fact that
> > they take design decisions which are aligned with the needs of RHEL
> > and these needs are often far from what is good for other distr
On 2012-04-30 09:23 +0200, Thomas Goirand wrote:
> On 04/30/2012 03:48 AM, Sven Joachim wrote:
>> The difference is that there are millions of videos you can watch with
>> VLC, while there are only a dozen or so iwads for doomsday, none of
>> which are free.
>
> And then what? Is it about numbers?
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