Re: OT: Re: merging mingw and cygwin

On 13 Oct 2003 at 23:13, Christopher Faylor wrote: > On Mon, Oct 13, 2003 at 05:35:38PM -0700, Paul G. wrote: > >Mingw is not included with Msys. Msys "can use" and "is capable of > >_recognizing_", Mingw. Msys != Mingw. Msys does not need Mingw to > >develop anything. > > > >Mingw and Msys a

Re: merging mingw and cygwin

On Tue, Oct 14, 2003 at 09:08:56AM -0400, Igor Pechtchanski wrote: >On Mon, 13 Oct 2003, Edward Peschko wrote: >> On Mon, Oct 13, 2003 at 10:19:08PM -0400, Christopher Faylor wrote: >>>[snip] >>>Do not send me personal email about cygwin again. >> [snip] >>You hold the keys to some sort of power, t

Re: merging mingw and cygwin

On Mon, 13 Oct 2003, Edward Peschko wrote: > On Mon, Oct 13, 2003 at 10:19:08PM -0400, Christopher Faylor wrote: > > [snip] > > Do not send me personal email about cygwin again. > [snip] > You hold the keys to some sort of power, the power to enter the > developer's list, the power to patch cygwin

Re: merging mingw and cygwin

Edward Peschko wrote: discourtesy expressed in your attitude pissed me off and it is not at all professional. CGF is not harsh, he's just trying to apply CygWin's motto WJM, in his own personal way IDD, as he is the CygWin RCM, after all... OK, apart from trying to break the ice (or the tens

Re: merging mingw and cygwin

On Mon, Oct 13, 2003 at 10:19:08PM -0400, Christopher Faylor wrote: > Apparently you decided to bcc me on this email. > > IIRC, I asked not to receive personal email from you on this subject. I > suggested that you continue your discussion in the cygwin mailing list > and it should be obvious to

Re: merging mingw and cygwin

On Mon, Oct 13, 2003 at 05:48:47PM -0500, Brian Ford wrote: >On Mon, 13 Oct 2003, Edward Peschko wrote: >>And anyways, the version numbers in itself are enough to warrant a >>merge. Coordinate releases of mingw and cygwin, and the version issues >>go away. >> >Cygwin itself doesn't "coordinate rel

Re: OT: Re: merging mingw and cygwin

On Mon, Oct 13, 2003 at 05:35:38PM -0700, Paul G. wrote: >Mingw is not included with Msys. Msys "can use" and "is capable of >_recognizing_", Mingw. Msys != Mingw. Msys does not need Mingw to >develop anything. > >Mingw and Msys are OT for this list. Bingo. Paul is right. Also Mingw doesn't n

Re: merging mingw and cygwin

At 08:44 PM 10/13/2003, Edward Peschko you wrote: >> >Fair enough, but you *can* 'pre' approve entrance to the developer's list. >> >Remember, you try to subscribe and you get asked four questions? >> >> >> You don't need to be on the Cygwin developers list to create patches >> for Cygwin or pla

Re: merging mingw and cygwin

> >Fair enough, but you *can* 'pre' approve entrance to the developer's list. > >Remember, you try to subscribe and you get asked four questions? > > > You don't need to be on the Cygwin developers list to create patches > for Cygwin or play around with the code. Patches can be submitted either

OT: Re: merging mingw and cygwin

keeping in mind what someone else said about flame wars... On 13 Oct 2003 at 15:45, Edward Peschko wrote: > > Just because they are available does not mean you need to use them! > > Look I asked you if you were able to build Windows only applications > > using -mno-cygwin. You failed to answer th

Re: merging mingw and cygwin

At 07:52 PM 10/13/2003, Edward Peschko you wrote: >> The answer is - the Cygwin team is under no obligation to accept patches >> to Cygwin to do anything. Patches are accepted and merged based on merit >> of the patch and adherence with Cygwin standards. If your patch passes >> these hurdles, i

Re: merging mingw and cygwin

On Mon, 13 Oct 2003, Edward Peschko wrote: > > The answer is - the Cygwin team is under no obligation to accept patches > > to Cygwin to do anything. Patches are accepted and merged based on merit > > of the patch and adherence with Cygwin standards. If your patch passes > > these hurdles, it wi

Re: merging mingw and cygwin

On 13 Oct 2003 at 12:00, Edward Peschko wrote: [snip] > > > In other words, depending how you look at it, mingw is defining less > crucial information, or cygwin is defining more junk. And sometimes > they define the same stuff differently. > > In any case, the toolsets are incompatible. And t

Re: merging mingw and cygwin

> The answer is - the Cygwin team is under no obligation to accept patches > to Cygwin to do anything. Patches are accepted and merged based on merit > of the patch and adherence with Cygwin standards. If your patch passes > these hurdles, it will be accepted. If not, it will be rejected (with

Re: merging mingw and cygwin

On Mon, Oct 13, 2003 at 05:48:47PM -0500, Brian Ford wrote: > On Mon, 13 Oct 2003, Edward Peschko wrote: > > > And anyways, the version numbers in itself are enough to warrant a > > merge. Coordinate releases of mingw and cygwin, and the version issues > > go away. > > > Cygwin itself doesn't "co

Re: merging mingw and cygwin

At 06:45 PM 10/13/2003, Edward Peschko you wrote: >> Just because they are available does not mean you need to use them! Look >> I asked you if you were able to build Windows only applications using >> -mno-cygwin. You failed to answer that question. I'm able to build such >> apps and you should

Re: merging mingw and cygwin

Edward Peschko wrote: Like I said, I'm not worried about my specific applications. I want cygwin to transparently and with no fuss - and correctly - build third party APIs, so I can properly link with them (and debug them if necessary). All I can say is what I've heard many others say, which is..

Re: merging mingw and cygwin

Brian Ford wrote: Each is updated on its own schedule. ...which can be described as MAX(upstream release time, next free moment of the volunteer package mantainer) + RANDOM(-10, +100) so it cannot be predicted, either. It worked fairly well insofar, though. -- Lapo 'Raist' Luchini [EMAIL PRO

Re: merging mingw and cygwin

On Mon, Oct 13, 2003 at 03:20:49PM -0700, Andrew DeFaria <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Edward Peschko wrote: > >MINGW and/or NO_CYGWIN simply wrap all of this up in a nice user friendly > >package. > > > Let us know how your first implementation of this concept goes... mungewin-0.01? More serious

Re: merging mingw and cygwin

On Mon, 13 Oct 2003, Edward Peschko wrote: > And anyways, the version numbers in itself are enough to warrant a > merge. Coordinate releases of mingw and cygwin, and the version issues > go away. > Cygwin itself doesn't "coordinate releases". By that I mean Cygwin, w32api, gcc, mingw gcc, etc. ar

Re: merging mingw and cygwin

> Just because they are available does not mean you need to use them! Look > I asked you if you were able to build Windows only applications using > -mno-cygwin. You failed to answer that question. I'm able to build such > apps and you should be too. You are arguing about the differences in > i

Re: merging mingw and cygwin

Edward Peschko wrote: msys != mingw. mingw doesn't need msys. Cygwin provides a more complete building and testing environment than does msys. ... and I was told point blank by the mingw mailing list not to use them. cygwin is a nice user friendly package. I won't speak for mingw because

Re: merging mingw and cygwin

> > As I said, this is just the tip of the iceberg - who knows what patches that > > mingw has made to gcc, ld, make, etc. which could affect the building and > > running of large win32 packages. > > I do. So does Chris, So does anyone who cares to look. The diff for gcc and > binutils is not an

Re: merging mingw and cygwin

Edward Peschko wrote: touche.. although you could use a mechanism like 'complete' in tcsh to enforce the conversion (complete recognizes things like paths, ip addresses, email addresses, etc.) and enforces conversion by this mechanism. This would work in 95-99% of the cases. And what of other she

Re: merging mingw and cygwin

Ed said: > Like I said, try: > > mingw > gcc -dM -e -xc /dev/null > cygwin > gcc -mno-cygwin -dM -E -xc /dev/null > > cygwin makes 73 defines, mingw makes 38. If a large project uses any of the > cygwin defines, it will behave differently than if compiled with native mingw. > That's because yo

Re: merging mingw and cygwin

> >well, I'd expect to see the mingw application choke if I ran it through > >cmd.exe this way.. > > > >I don't see why it would have to choke if it ran through *SH.EXE* this > >way. sh.exe - in either the mingw32 world or the the cygwin world - could > >handle the arguments. And that way, inter

RE: merging mingw and cygwin

onday, October 13, 2003 3:35 PM To: Andrew DeFaria Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: merging mingw and cygwin > I, like others, think that you are just looking at this sideways. If I > compile a program with MingW it is to produce a Windows only executable > totally unaware of Cygwin, Pos

Re: merging mingw and cygwin

Edward Peschko wrote: I, like others, think that you are just looking at this sideways. If I compile a program with MingW it is to produce a Windows only executable totally unaware of Cygwin, Posix or anything. The only thing I'd expect it to "understand" is Windows conventions. As such I'd expect

Re: merging mingw and cygwin

> I, like others, think that you are just looking at this sideways. If I > compile a program with MingW it is to produce a Windows only executable > totally unaware of Cygwin, Posix or anything. The only thing I'd expect > it to "understand" is Windows conventions. As such I'd expect that > pro

Re: merging mingw and cygwin

On Mon, 13 Oct 2003, Andrew DeFaria wrote: > The only way I think you can truly accomplish what you want is to > effectively do all the work that Cygwin has already done, by hand, > recoding it so as not to be stealing, and release your runtime license > free or on the "Artist" license like Perl.

Re: merging mingw and cygwin

Edward Peschko wrote: Have you tried to compile an application using -mno-cygwin? Have you tried to run the resulting executable? I have. I created an application using -mno-cygwin and to my surprise it became "Windows" like in that thinks like pathnames had to be specified in Window'ese. So befor

Re: merging mingw and cygwin

> Have you tried to compile an application using -mno-cygwin? Have you > tried to run the resulting executable? I have. I created an application > using -mno-cygwin and to my surprise it became "Windows" like in that > thinks like pathnames had to be specified in Window'ese. So before, in > the

Re: merging mingw and cygwin

Edward Peschko wrote: As for needing two dev environments, you been instructed how to use cygwin to compile to both, so I must conclude you are not actually trying to comprehend the emails, just arguing for the sake of it. That is exactly my point. if cygwin can do both, and cygwin can create e

Re: merging mingw and cygwin

At 08:56 PM 10/12/2003, Paul G. you wrote: >On 12 Oct 2003 at 20:10, Christopher Faylor wrote: > >> On Sun, Oct 12, 2003 at 04:47:18PM -0700, Paul G. wrote: >> >On 12 Oct 2003 at 15:41, Edward Peschko wrote: >> >>It sure would beat the install process for mingw right now, which is >> >>a manual h

Re: merging mingw and cygwin

> >Umm..you might want to mention this on the Mingw users list...though it > >appears you haven't looked at the files that are available for download > >there (in terms of Mingw), specifically > >http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=2435. > > He already mentioned this in the mingw

Re: merging mingw and cygwin

On 12 Oct 2003 at 20:10, Christopher Faylor wrote: > On Sun, Oct 12, 2003 at 04:47:18PM -0700, Paul G. wrote: > >On 12 Oct 2003 at 15:41, Edward Peschko wrote: > >>It sure would beat the install process for mingw right now, which is > >>a manual horror right now involving the download and instal

Re: merging mingw and cygwin

On Sun, Oct 12, 2003 at 04:47:18PM -0700, Paul G. wrote: >On 12 Oct 2003 at 15:41, Edward Peschko wrote: >>It sure would beat the install process for mingw right now, which is a >>manual horror right now involving the download and installation of >>several, separate packages in different directorie

Re: merging mingw and cygwin

On 12 Oct 2003 at 15:41, Edward Peschko wrote: > > to support just gcc. Everyone does not want all of the 600+ > > megabytes of Cygwin just because they want a C++ compiler (or C, or > > FORTRAN). That is why some good, open source IDE's for C/C++ use > > MingW as part of their full installati

Re: merging mingw and cygwin

Does the author of this reply have a problem with someone else knowing what they are talking about? On 12 Oct 2003 at 0:36, Christopher Faylor wrote: > On Sat, Oct 11, 2003 at 09:16:41PM -0700, Paul G. wrote: > >Msys is derived from Cygwin. However, it does not have the overhead > >that Cygwin

Re: merging mingw and cygwin

At 06:41 PM 10/12/2003, Edward Peschko you wrote: >> to support just gcc. Everyone does not want all of the 600+ megabytes >> of Cygwin just because they want a C++ compiler (or C, or FORTRAN). That >> is why some good, open source IDE's for C/C++ use MingW as part of their >> full installation.

Re: merging mingw and cygwin

> to support just gcc. Everyone does not want all of the 600+ megabytes > of Cygwin just because they want a C++ compiler (or C, or FORTRAN). That > is why some good, open source IDE's for C/C++ use MingW as part of their > full installation. No fuss, no muss, relatively lightweight download. >

Re: merging mingw and cygwin

At 01:19 AM 10/12/2003, Edward Peschko you wrote: >On Sun, Oct 12, 2003 at 12:27:06AM -0400, Larry Hall (RFK Partners, Inc) wrote: >> At 10:01 PM 10/11/2003, Edward Peschko you wrote: >> >> What would be the point? >> > >> >lack of end-user confusion... elimination of duplicate development effort..

Re: merging mingw and cygwin

On Sun, Oct 12, 2003 at 02:04:38AM -0400, Daniel Reed wrote: > On 2003-10-11T22:19-0700, Edward Peschko wrote: > ) And all of these are done separately, so of course no integration testing is done > to > ) make sure that these work together well.. > > If you would like to coordinate such an audit

Re: merging mingw and cygwin

On Sun, Oct 12, 2003 at 03:35:02PM +1000, Robert Collins wrote: > > For crying out loud. > > Edward, there are plenty of archives and resources that detail how to > achieve your stated goals. Right now you are making suggestions from a > quite apparent position of ignorance. I urge you to resear

Re: merging mingw and cygwin

On 2003-10-11T22:19-0700, Edward Peschko wrote: ) And all of these are done separately, so of course no integration testing is done to ) make sure that these work together well.. If you would like to coordinate such an audit/review of overall interoperability, I do not believe anyone would begrudg

Re: merging mingw and cygwin

For crying out loud. Edward, there are plenty of archives and resources that detail how to achieve your stated goals. Right now you are making suggestions from a quite apparent position of ignorance. I urge you to research before you suggest fixing something that isn't broken. All the cygwin pack

Re: merging mingw and cygwin

> without the IDE then use mingw32. Although it can compile either -mconsole > programs (using printf) or -mwindows programs (using the win32 API) it's > not a *nix environment. *nix programs can't usually be compiled with it > unless they are text-only console programs. But it has many *nix w

Re: merging mingw and cygwin

On Sun, Oct 12, 2003 at 12:27:06AM -0400, Larry Hall (RFK Partners, Inc) wrote: > At 10:01 PM 10/11/2003, Edward Peschko you wrote: > >> What would be the point? > > > >lack of end-user confusion... elimination of duplicate development effort... > >elimination > >of duplicate maintenance effort..

Re: merging mingw and cygwin

At 09:46 AM 11/10/2003, you wrote: I've been playing around with mingw and cygwin, and was wondering why these were separate projects? I've been trying to get a unix API moved over to windows; I want a Unix environment, cygwin is the answer but at the same time want to be able to make Win32 na

Re: merging mingw and cygwin

On Sat, Oct 11, 2003 at 09:16:41PM -0700, Paul G. wrote: >Msys is derived from Cygwin. However, it does not have the overhead >that Cygwin does, nor does Msys support the posix/unixy stuff that >Cygwin does...nor should it. You keep saying "overhead" as if you know what you're talking about. Eith

Re: merging mingw and cygwin

At 10:01 PM 10/11/2003, Edward Peschko you wrote: >> What would be the point? > >lack of end-user confusion... elimination of duplicate development effort... >elimination >of duplicate maintenance effort... the ability to compile all unix tools 'native' >win32 >for those who desire it. It's t

Re: merging mingw and cygwin

Got an error from qmail the last time I sent this. Trying again...please, forgive any duplication. On 11 Oct 2003 at 19:01, Edward Peschko wrote: However, #1 and #2 are a puzzle: why are they two separate projects? Its >terribly confusing; both have the same executable files created (ln and

Re: merging mingw and cygwin

yup. Msys is derived from Cygwin. However, it does not have the overhead that Cygwin does, nor does Msys support the posix/unixy stuff that Cygwin does...nor should it. Paul G. On 12 Oct 2003 at 0:08, Christopher Faylor wrote: > On Sat, Oct 11, 2003 at 08:16:33PM -0700, Paul

Re: merging mingw and cygwin

On Sat, Oct 11, 2003 at 08:16:33PM -0700, Paul G. wrote: >On 11 Oct 2003 at 19:01, Edward Peschko wrote: >>>What would be the point? >> >>lack of end-user confusion... elimination of duplicate development >>effort... elimination of duplicate maintenance effort... the ability >>to compile all uni

Re: merging mingw and cygwin

On 11 Oct 2003 at 19:01, Edward Peschko wrote: > > What would be the point? > > lack of end-user confusion... elimination of duplicate development > effort... elimination of duplicate maintenance effort... the ability > to compile all unix tools 'native' win32 for those who desire it.

Re: merging mingw and cygwin

On Sat, 11 Oct 2003, Edward Peschko wrote: > (pps - 'screen' - as per 4.0.1, just gained cygwin support. > You might want to add that to your list of cygwin packages.) I don't see any Cygwin support in 4.0.1. Where did you read it ? There's nothing in patchlevel.h (which details the changes), rea

Re: merging mingw and cygwin

> What would be the point? lack of end-user confusion... elimination of duplicate development effort... elimination of duplicate maintenance effort... the ability to compile all unix tools 'native' win32 for those who desire it. > They already work well together. Of course, >

Re: merging mingw and cygwin

At 08:16 PM 10/10/2003, Edward Peschko you wrote: >hey, > >I've been playing around with mingw and cygwin, and was wondering why these were >separate >projects? I've been trying to get a unix API moved over to windows; I want a Unix >environment, but at the same time want to be able to make Win32

merging mingw and cygwin

hey, I've been playing around with mingw and cygwin, and was wondering why these were separate projects? I've been trying to get a unix API moved over to windows; I want a Unix environment, but at the same time want to be able to make Win32 native binaries, *without* the need of the cygwin dlls