Cygwin triggers integrity scrubbing on ReFS filesystems, making searching files impossible on large datasets

2022-10-11 Thread Matt D.
I formatted a drive today, with ReFS on a Storage Pool mirror with integrity streams enabled, before copying data over from a backup. The data included several million files, which I search often with tools like find and grep. After the copy was finished, I tried doing a simple find: time find . -

Re: Native symbolic link behavior is broken and makes backups using Cygwin command line tools impossible

2021-01-13 Thread Matt D. via Cygwin
On Tue, Jan 12, 2021 at 5:20 PM Andrey Repin wrote: > > Again, the properties are read BY SYSTEM at the moment the link is created. > In other words, Windows is unable to create a link to nonexistent > (unreachable) target (not directly, at least). This is false. Links can be created arbitrarily

Re: Native symbolic link behavior is broken and makes backups using Cygwin command line tools impossible

2021-01-12 Thread Matt D. via Cygwin
Operations like cp and rsync etc. should still work. The type of symbolic link to be created can be read from the file attributes of the one being copied. On Mon, Jan 4, 2021 at 10:46 AM Jeffrey Altman via Cygwin wrote: > > On 1/4/2021 10:27 AM, Matt D. via Cygwin (cygwin@cygwin.com)

Re: Native symbolic link behavior is broken and makes backups using Cygwin command line tools impossible

2021-01-04 Thread Matt D. via Cygwin
ws symbolic links. It does not have a problem creating links to any target with the default Cygwin (non-Windows) symbolic links. On Mon, Jan 4, 2021 at 7:30 AM Eliot Moss wrote: > > On 1/4/2021 5:36 AM, Matt D. via Cygwin wrote: > > Did you try any of my test cases? This can't a

Re: Native symbolic link behavior is broken and makes backups using Cygwin command line tools impossible

2021-01-04 Thread Matt D. via Cygwin
$ cp -dv folder_a/a folder_b/ 'folder_a/a' -> 'folder_b/a' cp: cannot create symbolic link 'folder_b/a': No such file or directory $ cp -Pv folder_a/a folder_b/ 'folder_a/a' -> 'folder_b/a' cp: cannot create symbolic link 'folder_b/a': No

Native symbolic link behavior is broken and makes backups using Cygwin command line tools impossible

2021-01-02 Thread Matt D. via Cygwin
I have a folder with a lot of native Windows symbolic links. I want to copy this folder. I cannot rsync or cp this folder due to Cygwin being unable to create symbolic links without also wanting to verify the link target. This can be demonstrated: $ ln -s a b ln: failed to create symbolic link 'b

How to ensure that /bin takes priority over System32 with "bash -c"?

2020-10-31 Thread Matt D. via Cygwin
I have Cygwin's /bin directory configured to be available on my login environment PATH by default. This behavior is inherited when I run a bash login shell: $ where sort C:\cygwin\bin\sort.exe C:\Windows\System32\sort.exe But if I run the following script from a Windows command prompt: C:\> bash

Re: Error: "-gThe system cannot find the file specified." When bash script containing "cut" is run from cmd

2020-10-31 Thread Matt D. via Cygwin
Please ignore this. There was an error in my test case. -- Problem reports: https://cygwin.com/problems.html FAQ: https://cygwin.com/faq/ Documentation:https://cygwin.com/docs.html Unsubscribe info: https://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple

Error: "-gThe system cannot find the file specified." When bash script containing "cut" is run from cmd

2020-10-31 Thread Matt D. via Cygwin
Simple Bash script: > #!/bin/bash > > cut Save as "testme.sh" in C:\ or elsewhere. Open a Windows command prompt and type: > cmd /c bash -c /c/testme.sh I get the following error: > -gThe system cannot find the file specified. This only seems to trigger when bash is running as a child proces

Re: Copying of symbolic links not working as expected

2019-04-21 Thread Matt D.
Note that this creates a chicken-and-the-egg problem when copying paths which contain symbolic links which will be but are not yet valid at the time of copying. For example, copying a very large and complex tree with many lots of links will result in a broken copy. I'm trying to copy a directo

Copying of symbolic links not working as expected

2019-04-21 Thread Matt D.
I'm experiencing a discrepancy between Linux cp and Cygwin cp when copying native symbolic links: Test/ FolderA/ 123/ 456/ -> 123/ On Linux I can: > cp -r FolderA/ FolderB/ > ls -l FolderB/ total 0 drwxrwxr-x. 2 account group 45 Apr 21 05:47 123 lrwxrwxrwx. 1 account group 4 A

Can't create symbolic links in child directories

2019-03-31 Thread Matt D.
This works: > touch a > ln -s a b This no longer works: > touch a > mkdir b > ln -s a b/c Error: ln: failed to create symbolic link 'b/c': No such file or directory My CYGWIN environment is also configured using "winsymlinks:nativestrict". I am running the following version (updated today):

Cannot use screen when Cygwin is installed on a FAT32 filesystem / chmod does not work on FAT32 directories

2018-09-30 Thread Matt D.
I'm trying to use Cygwin on a Windows machine with the latest release. The system in question must run from a filesystem formatted with FAT32 and therefore inherits the 'noacl' field according to the documentation. After a clean install and running Cygwin.bat, I am greeted with the following e

libglut is missing library for MinGW static linking

2018-09-27 Thread Matt D.
licy is on providing static libraries for MinGW but this is a very good candidate as it already has all of the necessary declarations defined. Matt D. -- Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ Documentation: http://cygw

What is the purpose of libglut32?

2018-09-27 Thread Matt D.
e __glut*WithExit routines should NEVER be called > directly. To avoid the atexit workaround, #define > GLUT_DISABLE_ATEXIT_HACK. This library is NOT the same as libgut, which seems to be the appropriate way to include glut, even when compiling for MinGW. Matt D. -- Problem reports:

Broken junctions and symlinks halt recursive cp and rsync operations?

2017-11-16 Thread Matt D.
transferred (see previous errors) (code 23) at main.c(1196) [sender=3.1.2] Is there a way to recover from this? It breaks copy operations of directories which contain broken symlinks where I would expect the broken link to be copied as-is. Matt D. -- Problem reports: http://cy

Re: No way to use ssh ~/.ssh/config with "noacl" option

2017-11-08 Thread Matt D.
On 11/4/2017 1:38 PM, Matt D. wrote: On 11/4/2017 1:15 PM, Matt D. wrote: > On 11/4/2017 11:43 AM, Achim Gratz wrote: >> That's the correct thing to do, even though you made this unnecessarily >> hard for yourself by mounting your home directory with "noacl".

Re: No way to use ssh ~/.ssh/config with "noacl" option

2017-11-04 Thread Matt D.
On 11/4/2017 1:15 PM, Matt D. wrote: > On 11/4/2017 11:43 AM, Achim Gratz wrote: >> That's the correct thing to do, even though you made this unnecessarily >> hard for yourself by mounting your home directory with "noacl". > > It's not perfect bu

Re: No way to use ssh ~/.ssh/config with "noacl" option

2017-11-04 Thread Matt D.
he other "noacl". Ssh's readconf.c is using fstat(). If these results are more accurate with "noacl" defined then why always say "-rw-r--r--" when more information is available? Matt D. -- Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html FAQ:

Re: No way to use ssh ~/.ssh/config with "noacl" option

2017-11-04 Thread Matt D.
heritence must be disabled to alter other groups: icacls config /inheritance:d Effectively regarded as "group": icacls config /remove:g "Authenticated Users" icacls config /remove:g "Users" Regarded as "other": icacls config /remove:g "Everyone"

Re: No way to use ssh ~/.ssh/config with "noacl" option

2017-11-04 Thread Matt D.
On 11/4/2017 9:31 AM, Matt D. wrote: On 11/4/2017 7:47 AM, Matt D. wrote: On 11/4/2017 7:37 AM, Corinna Vinschen wrote: On Nov 4 05:47, Matt D. wrote: I mount with "noacl" as I don't need ACLs for my purposes and prefer to leave everything up to Windows permissions. The probl

Re: No way to use ssh ~/.ssh/config with "noacl" option

2017-11-04 Thread Matt D.
On 11/4/2017 7:47 AM, Matt D. wrote: On 11/4/2017 7:37 AM, Corinna Vinschen wrote: On Nov 4 05:47, Matt D. wrote: I mount with "noacl" as I don't need ACLs for my purposes and prefer to leave everything up to Windows permissions. The problem with this is that ssh insists tha

Re: Workflow for producing patches with cygport?

2017-11-04 Thread Matt D.
Thank you. There is no documentation for this from 'cygport --help' or 'man cygport'. Is this an oversight? Matt D. On 11/4/2017 9:04 AM, Jon Turney wrote: On 04/11/2017 10:45, Matt D. wrote: I've gotten this far: download cygport download package sr

Building OpenSSH fails when '--with-kerberos5' in the default configuration

2017-11-04 Thread Matt D.
OK Am I missing something? Matt D. -- Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple

Re: Building the Open SSH package from source

2017-11-04 Thread Matt D.
ake[1]: *** [Makefile:26: port-aix.o] Error 1 make[1]: Leaving directory '/usr/src/openssh-7.6p1-1.src/openssh-7.6p1-1.i686/build/openbsd-compat' make: *** [Makefile:156: openbsd-compat/libopenbsd-compat.a] Error 2 *** ERROR: make failed Matt D. -- Problem reports: http://cyg

Re: No way to use ssh ~/.ssh/config with "noacl" option

2017-11-04 Thread Matt D.
On 11/4/2017 7:37 AM, Corinna Vinschen wrote: On Nov 4 05:47, Matt D. wrote: I mount with "noacl" as I don't need ACLs for my purposes and prefer to leave everything up to Windows permissions. The problem with this is that ssh insists that ~/.ssh/config be less permissive. B

Workflow for producing patches with cygport?

2017-11-04 Thread Matt D.
I've gotten this far: download cygport download package src cd /usr/src/package* cygport package.cygport prep I can now edit the source, compile, etc. But what is the workflow for producing a patch file of my changes? Matt D. -- Problem reports: http://cygwi

No way to use ssh ~/.ssh/config with "noacl" option

2017-11-04 Thread Matt D.
to request ssh to ignore this requirement when "noacl" present on the mounted volume? Matt D. -- Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html Unsubscribe info: http://c

xinit is ignoring -displayfd option

2017-09-05 Thread Matt D.
ng used. Here is the output of xinit: https://pastebin.com/raw/HJB9WGk7 Matt D. -- Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple

Settings from lang.sh causing garbled output in dialog when run from cmd.exe

2017-04-06 Thread Matt D.
ZQ If I remove this line from /etc/profile.d/lang.sh: test -z "${_LC_ALL_SET_:-${LC_CTYPE:-$LANG}}" && export LANG=$(/usr/bin/locale -uU) Then the problem goes away. Why am I getting garbled output with this line present? Matt D. -- Problem reports:

How to get GNU Parallel working with Cygwin

2017-03-16 Thread Matt D.
I noticed today that we don't have this package. I tried building it from source with a './configure && make && make install'. But when I run "sem" I get the following output: 1 [main] perl 7712 child_info_fork::abort: address space needed by 'Util.dll' (0x1E) is already occupied 1 [main]

Re: XWin no longer working for me with -nolisten tcp?

2017-02-17 Thread Matt D.
denied xterm: Xt error: Can't open display: localhost:10.0 I tried purging /tmp on Cygwin but to no avail. Note that the server I am connecting to has not been rebooted in months and nothing has changed there. Matt D. On 2/17/2017 2:20 PM, Matt D. wrote: I just recently formatte

XWin no longer working for me with -nolisten tcp?

2017-02-17 Thread Matt D.
plete opposite workaround to what I had to use three years ago: https://cygwin.com/ml/cygwin-xfree/2014-07/msg00017.html Matt D. -- Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html Unsubscribe

Cannot access volumes mounted with 'mklink /d' which point to a volume UUID

2017-02-15 Thread Matt D.
is type of functionality. It would be great if Cygwin would support it. Matt D. -- Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple

Re: Bash declare built-in regression loses array quotations

2017-01-13 Thread Matt D.
My scripts have been updated to account for breaking changes in Bash 4.4 and I have updated all of my Cygwin packages back to the latest version. I am no longer receiving any assertions. Was I wrong to assume that I could selectively roll back Bash to 4.3 as I did? Matt D. On 1/13/2017 3

Re: Bash declare built-in regression loses array quotations

2017-01-13 Thread Matt D.
r" This bug is SEVERE and I can no longer perform any builds with these assertions. The Cygwin installer does not appear to provide a working version for me to roll back to. Please advise. I cannot get any work done with in this state. Matt D. On 1/13/2017 3:00 PM, Matt D. wrote: I up

Bash declare built-in regression loses array quotations

2017-01-13 Thread Matt D.
confirm that this has always been the expected output when running this command on Cygwin and Linux. I run CentOS which does not track the latest Bash release and I don't know the procedure to check whether this is an upstream regression or not. I have rolled back to Bash 4.3.48-8 which ha

Segfault when running tests for SDL 1.2.15

2016-01-05 Thread Matt D.
f segfault? My environment: CYGWIN_NT-10.0-WOW 2.3.1(0.291/5/3) 2015-11-14 12:42 i686 Cygwin Winows 10 x64, AMD FX-8370, GeForce 970 Thanks, Matt D. -- Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ Documentation: http://cygwi

Calling cygpath from find exec?

2015-11-23 Thread Matt D.
Is there a reason why these produce different results? find . -exec cygpath -wa {} \; find . -exec echo $(cygpath -wa {}) \; I have to do this which is much slower: find . -exec bash -c 'echo $(cygpath -wa {})' \; Or this: find . | while read a; do echo $(cygpath -wa $a); don

Re: Cygwin gjar core dumps whereas Oracle jar does not

2015-11-23 Thread Matt D.
I'm not sure if this got lost, ignored, or wasn't forwarded appropriately, but I'm still getting this core dump: https://sourceware.org/ml/cygwin/2015-10/msg00257.html Matt D. -- Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html FAQ: http:/

Re: No support for ACLs on network shares?

2015-11-23 Thread Matt D.
Cygwin isn't aware of this SID since it's the user I log in as to the remove server and isn't a local SID. Using noacl is a valid workaround but I would prefer an ACL-supported solution if possible. Matt D. On 11/23/2015 3:08 AM, Andrey Repin wrote: Greetings, Matt D.! I noti

No support for ACLs on network shares?

2015-11-23 Thread Matt D.
gh Cygwin only maps ACLs to the SIDs stored in passwd and group and cannot handle ACLs when accessing network devices where SIDs are not present in these files. Running passwd/mkgroup after the share is on the keychain does not provide additional SIDs. Is there no support for ACLs across ne

Re: gawk: Bad File Descriptor error with concurrent readonly access to a network file

2015-10-27 Thread Matt D.
he same error that I get. Matt D. On 10/27/2015 5:52 AM, Corinna Vinschen wrote: On Sep 25 16:31, Vermessung AVT - Wolfgang Rieger wrote: 1) Concurrent read access to the setup files was possible and worked fine with local files (24 hrs testing with millions of file accesses in 4 parallel jobs).

Cygwin gjar core dumps whereas Oracle jar does not

2015-10-17 Thread Matt D.
Illegal instruction (core dumped) Test on Oracle JDK jar: $jar -uf test.jar -C test icons (works fine) Matt D. -- Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html Unsubscribe info: http

gcc-java-4.9.2-3 has the wrong libgcj dependency

2015-10-17 Thread Matt D.
Latest release of setup-x86.exe downloaded today. gcc-java-4.9.2-3 has the wrong libgcj dependency. It erroneously depends on libgcj16-5.2.0-1 instead of libgcj15-4.9.3-1 and will complain that it can't find cyggcj-15.dll if I try to run gjar. Matt D. -- Problem reports:

Caveats for removing /cygdrive prefix?

2014-07-22 Thread Matt D.
ntered is a borked ls display when an actual folder "a", "b", etc., appears in the Cygwin root folder and the inability to enumerate drive with "ls /cygdrive". Are there any other caveats to consider? Also, it would be nice if doing a directory list on /cygdrive was a

Re: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Updated: Cygwin 1.7.31-1

2014-07-21 Thread Matt D.
Cannot replicate on Windows XP SP3 with latest Cygwin DLL by launching Cygwin's ftp from Windows command prompt or from a bash prompt. Everything connects fine. Matt D. On 7/21/2014 10:52 AM, D. Boland wrote: Hi Warren, Warren Young wrote: On 7/21/2014 06:19, D. Boland wrote: Wit

Re: using make without cygwin terminal

2014-07-10 Thread Matt D.
7;t need it. Your shell environment will need to be setup for both the compiler (cl.exe) and the linker (link.exe). See here: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa236630(v=vs.60).aspx http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa270757(v=vs.60).aspx Matt D. On 7/10/2014 6:14 PM, Robert Pe

Re: Run bash script in cmd with cygwin

2013-09-24 Thread Matt D.
Try adding this to your script: cd /cygdrive/d/path/to/dir;`for file.. Matt D. On 9/24/2013 5:43 PM, Ulrich Pogson wrote: Hello I would like to run this script `for file in `find . -name "*.po"` ; do msgfmt -o ${file/.po/.mo} $file ; done` in windows cmd. The script need t

Re: Cygwin and lz/lza running out of memory?

2013-09-22 Thread Matt D.
The link sounded promising but no matter how high I set it (tried up to 8192), I get the same error, even when bringing down the compression ratio a bit. I attempted to increase the cygwin heap on both /usr/lib/p7zip/7z.exe and 7za.exe. Matt D. On 9/22/2013 10:25 PM, Larry Hall (Cygwin

Cygwin and lz/lza running out of memory?

2013-09-22 Thread Matt D.
roblem does not appear to be how much available memory I have but rather q question of why the process can't seem to allocate it. Any advice? Matt D. -- Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ Documentation: http://

cygwin emacs 24.3 fci bug

2013-08-19 Thread Matt D.
-Indicator/issues/31 Supposedly this has already been fixed in the emacs trunk, although I did not test this case. Matt D. -- Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html Unsubscribe info

Makefile for emacs throws an error when username contains spaces

2013-08-19 Thread Matt D.
I experienced the following error while running "make install" for cygwin emacs: chown: invalid user: `Matthew' I corrected the problem by encapsulating the following variables in quotes within Makefile and Makefile.in: $${USERNAME} $${USER} $${installuser} Matt D. --

Re: Using cygpath with backticks

2013-06-22 Thread Matt D.
AM, Andrew DeFaria wrote: On 06/22/2013 08:39 AM, Matt D. wrote: Maybe I've just had a long week but I can't seem to get this to work: alias pathw='echo `cygpath -w "$@"`' pathw "/cygdrive/g/" I also tried: alias pathw='echo $(cygpath -w "$@"

Using cygpath with backticks

2013-06-22 Thread Matt D.
Maybe I've just had a long week but I can't seem to get this to work: alias pathw='echo `cygpath -w "$@"`' pathw "/cygdrive/g/" I also tried: alias pathw='echo $(cygpath -w "$@")' cygpath just yells at me that I'm doing something wrong. -- Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.ht

Re: Bug with Cygwin's 'quilt' is actually in 'patch'

2013-06-21 Thread Matt D.
Thank you. I took the time to make certain that I couldn't find any other lingering problems. The update to 2.7.1 corrects the test case I submitted previously. Thanks! :) On 6/21/2013 8:11 AM, Corinna Vinschen wrote: On Jun 20 09:46, Corinna Vinschen wrote: On Jun 19 23:31, Matt D.

Re: Bug with Cygwin's 'quilt' is actually in 'patch'

2013-06-19 Thread Matt D.
SAME test case. This is definitely a bug. On 6/20/2013 1:47 AM, Christopher Faylor wrote: On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 11:31:48PM -0400, Matt D. wrote: I've been looking further into this and it appears as though the problem is in 'patch' not 'quilt'. quilt is actually

Re: Bug with Cygwin's 'quilt' is actually in 'patch'

2013-06-19 Thread Matt D.
ng actual disparity. To summarize, the patch to Imakefile (CRLF) will apply if it is converted to LF line endings. Using the '--binary' switch seems to be a workaround for this issue. On 6/18/2013 1:36 AM, Matt D. wrote: Built the latest source 0.60 (same version as Cygwin) from

Re: magic failure

2013-06-19 Thread Matt D.
I believe the correct syntax is: $ ls -ld /usr/bin/gcc-* On 6/19/2013 9:01 AM, Nellis, Kenneth wrote: > Surprised that this didn't work: > > $ ls -ld /usr/bin/gcc-? > ls: cannot access /usr/bin/gcc-?: No such file or directory > $ > > while the following did: > > > $ ls -ld /usr/bin/gcc-?.exe >

Re: Bug with Cygwin's 'quilt'

2013-06-17 Thread Matt D.
.dll snapshot; same problem. On 6/18/2013 1:09 AM, Matt D. wrote: The last e-mail I supplied to the mailing list was missing the link to the example. See this one for the link. --- There seems to be a problem with Cygwin's quilt. This simple example simply alters a #define from '

Bug with Cygwin's 'quilt'

2013-06-17 Thread Matt D.
The last e-mail I supplied to the mailing list was missing the link to the example. See this one for the link. --- There seems to be a problem with Cygwin's quilt. This simple example simply alters a #define from 'MESAGL' to 'NX_MESAGL'. That's it. New quilt created, ok. New patch, ok. Edit

Bug with Cygwin's 'quilt'

2013-06-17 Thread Matt D.
There seems to be a problem with Cygwin's quilt. This simple example simply alters a #define from 'MESAGL' to 'NX_MESAGL'. That's it. New quilt created, ok. New patch, ok. Edit file, ok. Refresh (create patch), ok. Rollback changes, ok. Reapply patch.. error: >>> quilt push >>> Applying patch

Re: pty issue causes 'screen' to hang when run from mintty as detached

2013-06-12 Thread Matt D.
If you read the response from the mintty author in the support ticket linked in the original post you'll see: "There've been various issues with pseudo terminal (pty) layer in the Cygwin 1.7.19 release, which apparently haven't been fully addressed in 1.7.20. Mintty is based on that pty layer,

make hangs when compiling twf-0.4

2013-06-10 Thread Matt D.
Attempting to compile twf: http://gtk-apps.org/content/show.php/?content=83361 Configures fine. Then on make it hangs on what appears to be the linking stage: /bin/sh ../libtool --tag=CC --mode=link gcc -rdynamic -g -O2-o twf.exe main.o themes.o -lglade-2.0 -lgtk-x11-2.0 -lxml2 -lgdk-x1

Using 'test' fails when referencing home '~' from bash loop

2013-06-10 Thread Matt D.
The following never exits the loop: until test -f "~/file.txt"; do sleep 1 && echo sleep; done; echo done The following does: until test -f "/cygdrive/d/cygwin-home/file.txt"; do sleep 1 && echo sleep; done; echo done HOME is set and confirmed: echo $HOME /cygdrive/d/cygwin-home -- Problem

pty issue causes 'screen' to hang when run from mintty as detached

2013-06-10 Thread Matt D.
See here for additional information and reproducible steps in the mintty support ticket: https://code.google.com/p/mintty/issues/detail?id=390 I can reproduce this using cygwin 1.7.20, 1.7.19, 1.7.18, 1.7.15, and 1.7.7. Screen does NOT hang when is is created by calling the first command throu