Robert Elz writes:
> | What seems to be the case with sh-style shells and Posix is that
> | all-caps variable names are subject to implementation-specific use, and
> | so users should not use them except when using them in the way that is
> | specific to the implementation the script is to
Date:Mon, 16 Aug 2021 22:16:29 -0400
From:"Dale R. Worley"
Message-ID: <878s10yfwi@hobgoblin.ariadne.com>
| What seems to be the case with sh-style shells and Posix is that
| all-caps variable names are subject to implementation-specific use, and
| so users
It seems to me that people are avoiding both the core issue and its solution.
A standard is what allows people to write software that can be ported
without having to reassess every detail of the program. To take C as an
example, the standard defines what identifiers look like, which
identifiers a
On Fri, 2021-08-13 at 10:10 -0400, Chet Ramey wrote:
> As long as you stick to things POSIX standardizes. Relevant here, the
> standard even includes a list of variables you should avoid using because
> various shells and applications use them.
GROUPS is not on this list that I can tell. It would
On 8/13/21 10:32 AM, Greg Wooledge wrote:
On Fri, Aug 13, 2021 at 10:10:42AM -0400, Chet Ramey wrote:
As long as you stick to things POSIX standardizes. Relevant here, the
standard even includes a list of variables you should avoid using because
various shells and applications use them.
Just o
On Fri, Aug 13, 2021 at 10:10:42AM -0400, Chet Ramey wrote:
> As long as you stick to things POSIX standardizes. Relevant here, the
> standard even includes a list of variables you should avoid using because
> various shells and applications use them.
Just out of curiosity, where is that? It's no
On 8/11/21 8:00 PM, Franklin, Jason wrote:
Chet:
My apologies in advance for not responding in thread. The bug-bash
archive interface doesn't expose the "Message-ID" header anywhere I can
find, and I am not a subscriber. I suppose I should become one. :)
I believe I'd rather have variables
Date:Wed, 11 Aug 2021 15:31:08 -0400
From:Chet Ramey
Message-ID: <87b7cb49-444f-aa06-198d-57f4071a0...@case.edu>
| I believe I'd rather have variables behave as they're documented. It's more
| predictable.
I'm not sure I follow the logic that leads to that conclu
On Wed, 2021-08-11 at 20:36 -0400, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 11, 2021 at 08:00:12PM -0400, Franklin, Jason wrote:
> > This doesn't work unless it was recently fixed. A variation does...
> >
> > bash-5.0$ echo $BASH_VERSION
> > 5.0.17(1)-release
> > bash-5.0$ GROUPS=FOO bash -c 'echo $GRO
On Wed, Aug 11, 2021 at 08:00:12PM -0400, Franklin, Jason wrote:
> This doesn't work unless it was recently fixed. A variation does...
>
> bash-5.0$ echo $BASH_VERSION
> 5.0.17(1)-release
> bash-5.0$ GROUPS=FOO bash -c 'echo $GROUPS'
> 1000
> bash-5.0$ GROUPS=FOO bash --posix -c 'echo $GROUPS'
>
Chet:
My apologies in advance for not responding in thread. The bug-bash
archive interface doesn't expose the "Message-ID" header anywhere I can
find, and I am not a subscriber. I suppose I should become one. :)
> I believe I'd rather have variables behave as they're documented. It's more
> pr
On 8/11/21 2:06 PM, Robert Elz wrote:
Date:Wed, 11 Aug 2021 10:16:42 -0400
From:Chet Ramey
Message-ID: <26e01365-d7f0-448d-dc4d-83f244bd0...@case.edu>
| As long as POSIX doesn't define a variable to have some special meaning, it
| doesn't have anything to s
Date:Wed, 11 Aug 2021 10:16:42 -0400
From:Chet Ramey
Message-ID: <26e01365-d7f0-448d-dc4d-83f244bd0...@case.edu>
| As long as POSIX doesn't define a variable to have some special meaning, it
| doesn't have anything to say about how a shell chooses to use it. It's
On 8/10/21 8:56 PM, Franklin, Jason wrote:
What surprised me was that Bash-specific "magic" variables did not lose
their "magic" qualities when Bash was invoked in a POSIX-compliant mode
of execution.
That's not what bash posix mode is for. POSIX does not prohibit extensions.
--
``The lyf
On 8/10/21 12:39 PM, Robert Elz wrote:
| In this case, you are using features outside what POSIX specifies.
Using a variable name that's outside what POSIX specifies is hardly
using a feature that's outside POSIX - if it were then there would be
no safe non-trivial scripts, since any variabl
On Aug 11 2021, Štěpán Němec wrote:
> Quoting POSIX.1-2017 on environment variables [1]:
Note that GROUPS is not an environment variable in bash, it is not
exported.
Andreas.
--
Andreas Schwab, sch...@linux-m68k.org
GPG Key fingerprint = 7578 EB47 D4E5 4D69 2510 2552 DF73 E780 A9DA AEC1
"And
On Tue, 10 Aug 2021 23:39:47 +0700
Robert Elz wrote:
> Date:Tue, 10 Aug 2021 10:22:29 -0400
> From:Chet Ramey
> Message-ID: <731876fc-39c0-4388-0c9e-bf560921b...@case.edu>
>
> | In this case, you are using features outside what POSIX specifies.
>
> Using a variable
On Tue, Aug 10, 2021 at 8:57 PM Franklin, Jason wrote:
> What surprised me was that Bash-specific "magic" variables did not lose
> their "magic" qualities when Bash was invoked in a POSIX-compliant mode
> of execution.
Posix mode does not mean that bash-specific variables (or anything
else bash-s
Hey, Robert:
Thanks for the input! Quoting you here with some of my thoughts...
> Using a variable name that's outside what POSIX specifies is hardly
> using a feature that's outside POSIX - if it were then there would be
> no safe non-trivial scripts, since any variable name might be made magic
Date:Tue, 10 Aug 2021 10:22:29 -0400
From:Chet Ramey
Message-ID: <731876fc-39c0-4388-0c9e-bf560921b...@case.edu>
| In this case, you are using features outside what POSIX specifies.
Using a variable name that's outside what POSIX specifies is hardly
using a feature
On 8/9/21 10:00 PM, Franklin, Jason wrote:
> If I run a script against a POSIX-compliant (PC) shell using only PC
> syntax/features and then I run the same script with Bash in PC mode, I
> would expect an identical result. To me, anything else indicates a bug
> in one of the shells. Perhaps this
On 8/9/21 5:35 PM, Franklin, Jason wrote:
> Greetings:
>
> I discovered today that the GROUPS variable is special in Bash.
It is. For everyone else:
GROUPS An array variable containing the list of groups of which the
current user is a member. Assignments to GROUPS have no effect.
On Mon, Aug 09, 2021 at 10:00:25PM -0400, Franklin, Jason wrote:
> I did not write the scripts in question. These were actually Debian
> package maintainer scripts that started failing.
>
> Perhaps I'll get a test added to "checkbashisms" that looks for this.
A bug report against that Debian pac
Hey, Greg!
I presume that you are the Wooledge who hosts the BashFAQ.
If so, thanks for hosting that. It's a huge help. :)
On Mon, 2021-08-09 at 20:36 -0400, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 09, 2021 at 05:35:56PM -0400, Franklin, Jason wrote:
> > Should bash, invoked with "--posix" or as "s
On Mon, Aug 09, 2021 at 05:35:56PM -0400, Franklin, Jason wrote:
> Should bash, invoked with "--posix" or as "sh", omit the special
> treatment of variables such as GROUPS?
I would say no. Using all-caps variable names is a bad idea for
precisely this reason -- you never know when it'll be someth
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