Re: [Beowulf] Re: "hobbyists" still OT

2008-06-25 Thread Jon Aquilina
taking this thread off on another tangent here though. using bio fules might be good for now but is actually creating lots of problems. the end all solution would to be to use hydrogen as the fuel source. put water in the car gets broken down through hydrolysis and the water which is exhaust is rec

Re: [Beowulf] Re: "hobbyists" still OT

2008-06-25 Thread John Hearns
On Thu, 2008-06-26 at 13:43 +1000, Chris Samuel wrote: > It is probably worth pointing out that, as a recent > New Scientist article mentioned, a major part for the > rise in grain prices is due the rising demand for meat > from around the world. > > This is, of course, a very inefficient convers

Re: [Beowulf] Re: "hobbyists" still OT

2008-06-25 Thread Chris Samuel
- "Prentice Bisbal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > The United States alone produces enough grain to feed the entire > world. It is probably worth pointing out that, as a recent New Scientist article mentioned, a major part for the rise in grain prices is due the rising demand for meat from aro

Re: [Beowulf] FYI: HPC Server 2008 hits top 25

2008-06-25 Thread Jim Lux
Quoting Gerry Creager <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, on Wed 25 Jun 2008 06:49:34 PM PDT: His boss wrote fortran on OS/360 (and liked it!). WatFOR, WatFIV, IBM FORT-G and FORT-H, with intermediate step manual optimization. atmospheric models and radar propagation models, plus a few system hacks (how hig

Re: [Beowulf] FYI: HPC Server 2008 hits top 25

2008-06-25 Thread Gerry Creager
His boss wrote fortran on OS/360 (and liked it!). WatFOR, WatFIV, IBM FORT-G and FORT-H, with intermediate step manual optimization. atmospheric models and radar propagation models, plus a few system hacks (how high can the paper arch coming out of the line printer at full-rate pate-eject?).

Re: [Beowulf] A simple cluster

2008-06-25 Thread Peter St. John
Alcides, I think a short answer is: get a switch, plug all the boxes (throught the ethernet ports on the motherboards) to the switch, install Ubuntu and use OpenMP. Longer answers will be forthcoming, but I bet they will start with questions about the specific hardware you have, the budget, whet

Re: [Beowulf] Ottawa Linux Symposium, anyone going?

2008-06-25 Thread Peter St. John
Kyle, You mean the Ottawa Linux Symposium? You have a link for them? Peter On 6/25/08, Kyle Spaans <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Just out of curiosity, is anyone else from this list going to be attending > OLS? > Which talks would you say are relevant to beowulfery? >

Re: [Beowulf] Re: "hobbyists" still OT

2008-06-25 Thread Peter St. John
Prentice, Yes. You may get flamed, but the US (and Canada) produce remarkable food per acre and per man-hour, compared to anyone else. Technology, the heavy industry and infrastructure for the tech to proliferate, fertilizer, irrigation, and a continent worth of arable land. Our food is actually p

Re: [Beowulf] Re: "hobbyists"

2008-06-25 Thread Peter St. John
I just wanted to mention that there is a plan afoot to make alchohol (fuel) from cellulose (e.g. grass, I think the plan is corn stalks) along the lines of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cellulose#Cellulose_source_and_energy_crops I read somewhere a claim to be immently commercially viable (with corn

Re: [Beowulf] Again about NUMA (numactl and taskset)

2008-06-25 Thread Carlos Segura
>In my experience, real applications as well, things like nwchem for instance. Granted the difference (at least in the past) was much >larger for g77 vs commercial fortran than it was for gcc/g++ vs commercial c compilers. I've >heard gfortran has gotten much better and I've even occasionally see

[Beowulf] A simple cluster

2008-06-25 Thread Alcides Simao
Hi all! I am thinking of build a small cluster, fit for my calculations ( I am a spectroscopist, so I often do QM calculations in some molecules, which can be quite intensive for a singles machine) I was thinking of trying to build a cluster initially using 'scrap' pc's, just to get acquainted to

[Beowulf] Ottawa Linux Symposium, anyone going?

2008-06-25 Thread Kyle Spaans
Just out of curiosity, is anyone else from this list going to be attending OLS? Which talks would you say are relevant to beowulfery? ___ Beowulf mailing list, Beowulf@beowulf.org To change your subscription (digest mode or unsubscribe) visit http://www.

Re: [Beowulf] Re: "hobbyists"

2008-06-25 Thread saville
I respectfully request that you take conversations about washing machines and other non_beowulf related topics off to some other mailing list. I have plenty of email to delete without having the load increased by irrelevant discussions on this one. Many thanks, Gregg -- Audentes Fortuna Juv

Re: [Beowulf] FYI: HPC Server 2008 hits top 25

2008-06-25 Thread Peter St. John
Matt, First, I don't understand how a "technoronin" can have a boss :-) I only saw OS360 through Brook's Mythical Man Month; by the time I did fortran on big iron it was VM/CMS. But if you have the hardware drawing power already, then sure, cluster 'em :-) Peter On 6/24/08, Matt Lawrence <[EMAIL P

Re: [Beowulf] Re: "hobbyists" still OT

2008-06-25 Thread Prentice Bisbal
> Vincent Diepeveen wrote: >> >> Some 3d world country managers are begging to adress this issue: "My >> nations people die, >> as your bio fuel raises our food prices, the poor are so poor here, >> they use that stuff as food >> and cannot afford it now". All this discussion of politics is compl

Re: [Beowulf] Re: "hobbyists"

2008-06-25 Thread Robert G. Brown
On Wed, 25 Jun 2008, Kilian CAVALOTTI wrote: For washing machines the energy efficiency scale is calculated using a cotton cycle at 60°C (140°F) with a maximum declared load. This load is typically 6 kg. The energy efficiency index is in kW·h per kilogramme of washing. """ http://en.wikipedia.or

Re: [Beowulf] Re: "hobbyists"

2008-06-25 Thread Kilian CAVALOTTI
On Wednesday 25 June 2008 10:09:28 am Robert G. Brown wrote: > (lower power means lower SOMETHING -- less agitation, less heating of > the water, smaller capacity so you have to run more loads) Or just better energy conversion, less energy wasted in a transformer, use of higher-grade components

Re: [Beowulf] Re: "hobbyists"

2008-06-25 Thread Kilian CAVALOTTI
[Wow, this thread is really out of control. Nukes, geopolitics, stunts, and now biofuels. And all this because of CUDA! :)] > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Vincent Diepeveen > This causes as we speak people dying as they can no long

Re: [Beowulf] Go-playing machines

2008-06-25 Thread Robert G. Brown
On Wed, 25 Jun 2008, Peter St. John wrote: RGB, My hypothetical future Recursive Genetic Algorithm Go Player will crush your Hypothetical Future NeuralNet Go Player! Will not! Hypothetically, of course...;-) rgb Peter On 6/24/08, Robert G. Brown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On Tue, 24

Re: [Beowulf] Go-playing machines

2008-06-25 Thread Robert G. Brown
On Wed, 25 Jun 2008, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: His answer was very surprising (apologies to not know the English word for it) that the central part at where all the brain cells connect to, is at far higher speed than what i assumed it is taking decisions. Something in the order of 200 kHz to 40

Re: [Beowulf] Re: "hobbyists"

2008-06-25 Thread Robert G. Brown
On Wed, 25 Jun 2008, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: When i just walked previous week into a shop and my sister was interested in a new washing machine, i pointed her to the fact that the thing she was interested in, was eating 3.8 kW, versus the 100 euro more expensive thing next to it was eating 1.1

Re: [Beowulf] Go-playing machines

2008-06-25 Thread Peter St. John
RGB, My hypothetical future Recursive Genetic Algorithm Go Player will crush your Hypothetical Future NeuralNet Go Player! Peter On 6/24/08, Robert G. Brown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Tue, 24 Jun 2008, Peter St. John wrote: > > On a finite board, the game eventually becomes local; in fact "

Re: [Beowulf] Re: "hobbyists" still OT

2008-06-25 Thread Vincent Diepeveen
Take me correct, myself living outside of the big cities here into a city which is surrounded by farmers who have been hit very hard, i'm not taking a viewpoint on the subsidied exporting of Corn, Rice and Wheat. What i find bad is that these types of products which get produced a lot cheap

Re: [Beowulf] Again about NUMA (numactl and taskset)

2008-06-25 Thread Mikhail Kuzminsky
Let me assume now the following situation. I have OpenMP-parallelized application which have the number of processes equal to number of CPU cores per server. And let me assume that this application uses not too more virtual memory, so all the real memory used may be placed in RAM of *one* node.

Re: [Beowulf] Re: "hobbyists" still OT

2008-06-25 Thread Mike Davis
Vincent Diepeveen wrote: Some 3d world country managers are begging to adress this issue: "My nations people die, as your bio fuel raises our food prices, the poor are so poor here, they use that stuff as food and cannot afford it now". USA nor Europe can *never* produce that stuff as cheap

RE: [Beowulf] Re: "hobbyists"

2008-06-25 Thread John Hearns
On Wed, 2008-06-25 at 16:50 +0200, Geoff Galitz wrote: > > I've never really bought the argument that biofuels are causing a food > shortage considering that there is still so much unused farmland in the US > and farming practices here in the EU. I must admit this out of my field so > I have no r

RE: [Beowulf] Re: "hobbyists"

2008-06-25 Thread Geoff Galitz
I've never really bought the argument that biofuels are causing a food shortage considering that there is still so much unused farmland in the US and farming practices here in the EU. I must admit this out of my field so I have no real evidence to support my suspicion, but there have been a tric

Re: [Beowulf] Re: "hobbyists"

2008-06-25 Thread Vincent Diepeveen
It is not about what we do in the EU and/or what happens in USA. That is the typical short sighted view of politicians who decided on the subsidy. What matters is that the 'biofuel' of course does get imported from South America and Africa and that it causes in THOSE countries a huge inflat

Re: [Beowulf] Again about NUMA (numactl and taskset)

2008-06-25 Thread Prentice Bisbal
Bill Broadley wrote: > Vincent Diepeveen wrote: >> intel c++ obviously is close to visual studio. Within 0.5% to 1.5% >> range (depending upon flags > > I believe Microsoft licensed the intel optimization technology, so the > similarity is hardly surprising. > >> and hidden flags that you managed

Re: [Beowulf] Re: "hobbyists"es

2008-06-25 Thread Robert G. Brown
On Wed, 25 Jun 2008, Lombard, David N wrote: On Sat, Jun 21, 2008 at 02:09:37PM -0700, Robert G. Brown wrote: It would appear the rgb-bot ran amuk! The rgb-bot just got a new Dell XPS M1530. It is only sold with Vista, and Duke gets Vista Business. It got here Monday. I took it out of

Re: [Beowulf] Go-playing machines

2008-06-25 Thread Vincent Diepeveen
You raise an interesting question there, which is: "how are humans doing it". When i discussed this recentely with a brain researcher (so the type of researcher that really puts brains in a 3-Tesla MRI scanner) i also quoted the old fashioned theories as that the brain works at like 12Hz. H

Re: [Beowulf] Go-playing machines

2008-06-25 Thread Robert G. Brown
On Wed, 25 Jun 2008, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: Chess has indeed more than 10^40 positions. Latest mathematical calculation as published in ICGA journal came to 10^43. There is 2 points: a) playing the best move doesn't require searching the entire search space, so who knows maybe sear

Re: [Beowulf] Re: "hobbyists"

2008-06-25 Thread Vincent Diepeveen
Even worse, Why is there subsidy on bio fuels that get produced out of food eaten by poor people? This causes as we speak people dying as they can no longer for a cent or so buy food made out of it; the prices have doubled if not more for such types of cheap food because of subsidy in the

Re[2]: [Beowulf] Infiniband modular switches

2008-06-25 Thread Jan Heichler
Hallo Mark, Mittwoch, 25. Juni 2008, meintest Du: >>> so the switch fabric would be a 'leaf' layer with 12 up and >>> 12 down, and a top layer with 24 down, right? so 3000 nodes >>> means 250 leaves and 125 tops, 9000 total ports so 4500 cables. >> The number of switch layers, or tiers, depends

RE: [Beowulf] Infiniband modular switches

2008-06-25 Thread Gilad Shainer
>>> so the switch fabric would be a 'leaf' layer with 12 up and >>> 12 down, and a top layer with 24 down, right? so 3000 nodes means >>> 250 leaves and 125 tops, 9000 total ports so 4500 cables. >> >> The number of switch layers, or tiers, depends on the cluster size and >> the oversubscripti

RE: [Beowulf] Infiniband modular switches

2008-06-25 Thread Mark Hahn
so the switch fabric would be a 'leaf' layer with 12 up and 12 down, and a top layer with 24 down, right? so 3000 nodes means 250 leaves and 125 tops, 9000 total ports so 4500 cables. The number of switch layers, or tiers, depends on the cluster size and the oversubscription. For full non block

Re: [Beowulf] Re: "hobbyists"es

2008-06-25 Thread Lombard, David N
On Sat, Jun 21, 2008 at 02:09:37PM -0700, Robert G. Brown wrote: > > > It would appear the rgb-bot ran amuk! -- David N. Lombard, Intel, Irvine, CA I do not speak for Intel Corporation; all comments are strictly my own. ___ Beowulf mailing list, Beo

Re: [Beowulf] Go-playing machines

2008-06-25 Thread Vincent Diepeveen
Yes i realize very well what you mean Robert, though i partly agree the problem is 2 fold: a) i don't get paid to do it, if one were part of an university that is different b) having a chessprogram i'm used to hear wrong information all the time, games are so so popular, everyone likes to d

Re: [Beowulf] Again about NUMA (numactl and taskset)

2008-06-25 Thread Chris Samuel
- "Bill Broadley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Maybe I misread the license, what exactly let you > to believe that it's "free for researchers"? The Intel website is pretty clear on the matter and I'm pretty sure this is the case since they began their free non-commercial license program. #