Re: [Beowulf] While the knives are out... Wulf Keepers

2006-08-21 Thread Robert G. Brown
On Tue, 22 Aug 2006, Mark Hahn wrote: it's good to minimize the friction encountered when performing some task; it's NOT true that the only or best way to do that is by dumbing it down. every bit of dumbing makes the system less versatile. and the dumbing is not the goal - this is what is too

Re: [Beowulf] Java vs C++ for interfacing to parallel library

2006-08-21 Thread Robert G. Brown
On Mon, 21 Aug 2006, Ed Hill wrote: I want to be able to write codes that can make use of the vast existing C and C++ libraries for, say, I/O or computational geometry or "systems" type programming while simultaneously using existing Fortran routines for building and integrating big systems of e

Re: [Beowulf] While the knives are out... Wulf Keepers

2006-08-21 Thread Mark Hahn
Speaker asks all the people in the audience: "Those of you with manual transmissions in your car, raise your hand." 3/4 of the audience raises their hand. Speaker: "YOU, with your hands waving in the air, are NOT the people who should be designing the user interfaces. I find this asinine. y

Re: [Beowulf] Java vs C++ for interfacing to parallel library

2006-08-21 Thread Robert G. Brown
On Mon, 21 Aug 2006, Joe Landman wrote: I took a simple GSL program I used to introduce students to GSL, that was a modified example from one of the GSL example files. Basically a little Hooke's law bit to use as input to an LU solver. Really short GSL program. Joe, Since you clearly have t

Re: [Beowulf] Java vs C++ for interfacing to parallel library

2006-08-21 Thread Ed Hill
On Sun, 2006-08-20 at 23:50 -0400, Robert G. Brown wrote: > On Mon, 21 Aug 2006, Jonathan Ennis-King wrote: > > > The other option is the Unix-like strategy suggested by rgb, where for > > example the computational part is completely written in C, and then the > > pre and post-processing which be

Re: [Beowulf] Java vs C++ for interfacing to parallel library

2006-08-21 Thread Joe Landman
Robert G. Brown wrote: >> Obviously this is a trivial example, but if you create a reasonable set >> of API's that you can express as we have indicated, even pass function >> prototypes in using a header file, and a little config stuff at the >> front end to give paths to libraries, this is not

Re: [Beowulf] While the knives are out... Wulf Keepers

2006-08-21 Thread Mike Davis
Robert G. Brown wrote: Remember I'm just such a type as well. So are a whole lot of primary contributers on this list. Building and USING a cluster to perform actual work provides one with all sorts of real world experience that goes into building your next one, or helping others to do so.

Re: [Beowulf] While the knives are out... Wulf Keepers

2006-08-21 Thread Mike Davis
In those famous words from "Cool Hand Luke," "What we have here is a failure to communicate." For my role in that failure I apologize. Tony Travis wrote: I think problems can occur when you enforce such a strict demarcation boundary between your role and the role of the scientists you suppo

Re: [Beowulf] While the knives are out... Wulf Keepers

2006-08-21 Thread Robert G. Brown
On Mon, 21 Aug 2006, Tony Travis wrote: Not 'everyone' like me is as stupid or naive as you imply. I have the support I don't think he was implying that, really -- not worth flaming over, for sure. Remember that cluster computing as we currently use it was as much as not INVENTED by people ju

Re: [Beowulf] While the knives are out... Wulf Keepers

2006-08-21 Thread Tony Travis
Mike Davis wrote: [...] For the most part, I think that if a cluster is run correctly, it is an appliance for the scientists. Their job is to produce research, mine is to manage clusters and smp machines. Hello, Mike. I think problems can occur when you enforce such a strict demarcation bou

Re: [Beowulf] While the knives are out... Wulf Keepers

2006-08-21 Thread Mike Davis
Greg Lindahl wrote: On Thu, Aug 10, 2006 at 10:47:00AM +1000, SIM DOG wrote: I recently visited a large educational institution (that shall remain nameless) that hosts an excellent, world class, science research team. They also have a reasonably large Beowulf environment (over 100 dual nodes).

Re: [Beowulf] While the knives are out... Wulf Keepers

2006-08-21 Thread Jim Lux
At 11:08 PM 8/20/2006, Greg Lindahl wrote: On Thu, Aug 10, 2006 at 10:47:00AM +1000, SIM DOG wrote: > I recently visited a large educational institution (that shall remain > nameless) that hosts an excellent, world class, science research team. > They also have a reasonably large Beowulf environ

[Beowulf] [PCGRID07] Call for Papers for Workshop on Desktop Grids

2006-08-21 Thread Derrick Kondo
CALL FOR PAPERS Workshop on Large-Scale, Volatile Desktop Grids (PCGrid 2007) held in conjunction with the IEEE International Parallel & Distributed Processing Symposium (IPDPS) March 30, 2007 Long Beach, California U.S.A. http://pcgrid07.lri.fr Desktop grids utilize the free resources available

Re: [Beowulf] Java vs C++ for interfacing to parallel library

2006-08-21 Thread Jonathan Ennis-King
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 >> My specific question was whether anyone out there was running parallel >> codes either written completely in Java, or with Java wrappering some >> big numerical library for the hard part. Are there any additional issues >> with parallel performance

Re: [Beowulf] Java vs C++ for interfacing to parallel library

2006-08-21 Thread Jonathan Ennis-King
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 To give additional context, the choice of language is partly driven by the desire to make the code open source (eventually) and usable by other scientists (who are not exclusively programmers). This consideration rules out the arcane or new-fangled. My

Re: [Beowulf] Woodcrest Memory bandwidth

2006-08-21 Thread Greg Lindahl
On Tue, Aug 15, 2006 at 05:02:40AM -0400, Steffen Persvold wrote: > Not if you're using a "non-polluting" store (like movntps), but I don't know > if compilers are smart enough (they should be?). We generate non-polluting stores at -O3 and higher when we see a loop blowing out the cache. I don't

Re: [Beowulf] Intel Trace Collector (fka Vampir) on Opteron

2006-08-21 Thread Greg Lindahl
On Thu, Aug 17, 2006 at 01:37:37PM +0100, Daniel Kidger wrote: > Intel's support website has a reply from Intel saying that ITC uses Intel only > hardware counters and so won't run on anybody elses hardware. :-( Well, this actually happens to be true, the AMD and Intel hardware counters are compl

Re: [Beowulf] Woodcrest Memory bandwidth

2006-08-21 Thread Greg Lindahl
On Tue, Aug 15, 2006 at 07:16:59AM -0700, Bill Broadley wrote: > Interesting, the woodcrest latencies are much higher than I've seen > elsewhere. It's been awhile since I looked at the lmbench source, > I seem to recall it used to do a negative stride, but then one of the > the architectures dete

Re: [Beowulf] Memory latency (was woodcrest)

2006-08-21 Thread Greg Lindahl
On Thu, Aug 17, 2006 at 02:52:47PM -0700, Bill Broadley wrote: > I'm happy to say that Pathscale, Intel, GCC-3, and GCC-4 all share > mostly identical performance. Although, I had to be very careful with > pathscale to avoid the benchmark routine from getting optimized away. *snicker* Believe it