On 23 July 2012 23:42, David C. Rankin wrote:
> On 07/23/2012 09:22 PM, Martin Cigorraga wrote:
> > Again: people don't read, screw up their system and then blame the
> > change... :P
>
> In some case yes, in some cases, that's not quite true. The usrlib change
> depended a great deal on how old y
On Mon, Jul 23, 2012 at 05:57:46PM +0200, Tom Gundersen wrote:
> > Is debian switching
>
> That remains to be seen.
If Debian intends to continue support for Hurd and
KfreeBSD they can't move to systemd -- which relies
on Linux kernel features to work.
That debian has a disincentive is not the
On 07/23/2012 09:22 PM, Martin Cigorraga wrote:
> Again: people don't read, screw up their system and then blame the
> change... :P
In some case yes, in some cases, that's not quite true. The usrlib change
depended a great deal on how old your Arch install was, how many custom packages
you had bui
On 07/23/12 20:10, Manolo Martínez wrote:
Hello,
I've decided to try systemd and see for myself. Anyway, I need to remove
a module before shutdown, which rc.local.shutdown did nicely for me.
I know there is an initscripts-systemd packages that would allow me to
keep using rc.local.shutdown, but
The problem is not Arch is bleeding edge nor this deep change from /lib to
/usr/lib,
the problem is that _people don't read_: everything was *clearly* explained
in the
website's frontpage news and in the wiki.
Here's what the people at Project Zomboid had to do to ensure it's
customers READ
a noti
On 07/23/2012 09:10 PM, Manolo Martínez wrote:
Hence my question: what's the systemd native way to do stuff (in my
case, remove a module) before shutdown?
You might try something like this (untested as I am not currently
using systemd)- I'm not sure if you need the Before= since your "stu
On 22 July 2012 13:41, Damjan wrote:
> Also, by splitting it in different files you make it more robust. You
> don't want to bork your network setup just because you were editing your
> locale and forgot to close a quote.
@Damjan: this isn't completely true because if the config file parser is
Hello,
I've decided to try systemd and see for myself. Anyway, I need to remove
a module before shutdown, which rc.local.shutdown did nicely for me.
I know there is an initscripts-systemd packages that would allow me to
keep using rc.local.shutdown, but the wiki discourages its use and recommends
On Jul 24, 2012 12:10 AM, "Gaetan Bisson" wrote:
>
> [2012-07-23 16:35:26 +0100] Kevin Chadwick:
> > You should work for Redhat.
>
> Could you give us a break for a couple minutes and reflect on how many
> people you just spammed with your dozen content-free emails? Thanks for
> thinking for more
On 23-07-2012 22:27, SanskritFritz wrote:
> When I do a videochat in skype, the whole system freezes after a
> while. This while can be a couple to 10+ minutes. The system locks up
> usually when I start or close some other apps in the background. When
> it happens the screen doesnt change anymore,
2012/7/23 SanskritFritz
> When I do a videochat in skype, the whole system freezes after a
> while. This while can be a couple to 10+ minutes. The system locks up
> usually when I start or close some other apps in the background. When
> it happens the screen doesnt change anymore, and the sound s
When I do a videochat in skype, the whole system freezes after a
while. This while can be a couple to 10+ minutes. The system locks up
usually when I start or close some other apps in the background. When
it happens the screen doesnt change anymore, and the sound stutters
the last half second over
Hi all,
I've used Arch for the last 4 years and I'm increasingly comfortable using it
On the switch to systemd, people interested in the topic should give a
look at the Fosdem presentation about the project a year ago ;)
systemd, beyond init
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TyMLi8QF6sw&feature=plcp
On 07/23/2012 06:11 AM, Sébastien Luttringer wrote:
>> Come to think of this, would dkms then be a hard dep for virtualbox?
> dkms become an hard dep for virtualbox-source (and
> virtualbox-archlinux-source). You can still use virtualbox-modules.
>
What about for those using virtualbox-bin and
On Mon, Jul 23, 2012 at 7:24 PM, Marius T. wrote:
> I know that you are not supposed to run long scripts from udev rules, maybe
> this has something to do with it (although the script shouldn't take much
> time). I'm gonna have a look into it...
A short-running script to configure something shoul
Am 23.07.2012 19:24, schrieb Marius T.:
Am 23.07.2012 19:10, schrieb Karol Babioch:
Hi,
Am 23.07.2012 18:46, schrieb Leonid Isaev:
Rebuild your initramfs.
Of course, I have completely forgotten that I've updated the kernel
first this time. Quite stupid, sorry for the noise.
Nevertheless I do
On 07/22/2012 11:47 PM, David C. Rankin wrote:
> Guys,
>
> Why was wv2 dropped from extra? Nothing else provides the headers:
>
> wv2 /usr/include/wv2/associatedstrings.h
> wv2 /usr/include/wv2/convert.h
> wv2 /usr/include/wv2/dllmagic.h
> wv2 /usr/include/wv2/fields.h
> wv2 /usr/include/wv2/fo
My integrated USB Wacom tablet ISDv4 (056a:0094) is no longer
recognized, the wacom kernel module doesn't get loaded, the device shows
up in lsusb, but isn't even mentioned in Xorg.0.log
(xf86-input-wacom 0.16.0-1)
Then, the system completely froze an hour ago, not even sysrqs were
working. Nothin
Am 23.07.2012 19:10, schrieb Karol Babioch:
Hi,
Am 23.07.2012 18:46, schrieb Leonid Isaev:
Rebuild your initramfs.
Of course, I have completely forgotten that I've updated the kernel
first this time. Quite stupid, sorry for the noise.
Nevertheless I don't get any errors: http://pastebin.com/N
Hi,
Am 23.07.2012 18:46, schrieb Leonid Isaev:
> Rebuild your initramfs.
Of course, I have completely forgotten that I've updated the kernel
first this time. Quite stupid, sorry for the noise.
Nevertheless I don't get any errors: http://pastebin.com/NwmNAciN
So, I'm afraid this is something spe
Hi,
Am 23.07.2012 17:29, schrieb Kevin Chadwick:
> Tested, simply sophisticated and as fast as you make it.
There is no parallelization, no socket activation and no auto mounting.
In no way can it be as fast as systemd.
> Once you get to desktop level and SSDs, who cares about a few seconds.
I
On Mon, 23 Jul 2012 18:36:52 +0200
Karol Babioch wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Am 23.07.2012 18:11, schrieb Marius T.:
> > I get a "systemd-udevd not tainted" error with a stack trace on boot on
> > my Sony Vaio VPCS11C5E. Other than that the system seems to work fine.
> > Since you happen to have a similiar
Hi,
Am 23.07.2012 18:11, schrieb Marius T.:
> I get a "systemd-udevd not tainted" error with a stack trace on boot on
> my Sony Vaio VPCS11C5E. Other than that the system seems to work fine.
> Since you happen to have a similiar Vaio model, can you confirm any of
> this, Karol?
Interestingly I do
On Mon, 23 Jul 2012 17:57:46 +0200
Tom Gundersen wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 23, 2012 at 5:35 PM, Kevin Chadwick
> wrote:
> > Systemd is
> > larger than init, so for embedded it may well quadruple boot time.
>
> What utter bullshit. Please, Kevin, if you are going to throw around
> numbers, do some me
Am 23.07.2012 16:11, schrieb Karol Babioch:
Am 23.07.2012 14:57, schrieb Tobias Powalowski:
Hi guys,
Upstream changes:
http://kernelnewbies.org/LinuxChanges
Please report any issues that arise.
Thanks.
greetings
tpowa
Booted fine for me as well. I was affected by the backlight regression,
s
For having used systemd myself, I am inclined to believe that it
definitely fits the KISS principle. Systemctl is only a frontend to
simplify the addition and removal of services. Simplicity is only a
matter of learning new commands (systemctl enable .service,
e.g.). What systemctl really does when
[2012-07-23 16:35:26 +0100] Kevin Chadwick:
> You should work for Redhat.
Could you give us a break for a couple minutes and reflect on how many
people you just spammed with your dozen content-free emails? Thanks for
thinking for more than half a second next time you send something here.
--
Gaet
On Mon, Jul 23, 2012 at 5:35 PM, Kevin Chadwick wrote:
> Systemd is
> larger than init, so for embedded it may well quadruple boot time.
What utter bullshit. Please, Kevin, if you are going to throw around
numbers, do some measurements first.
systemd is so far even more successful in embedded en
On 07/23/2012 08:57 AM, Tobias Powalowski wrote:
Hi guys,
Upstream changes:
http://kernelnewbies.org/LinuxChanges
Please report any issues that arise.
Thanks.
Thank you for getting this to us so quickly :-)
1 machine in testing so far - ecnrypted home/swap - intel graphics,
iwlagn wirel
On Mon, 23 Jul 2012 12:46:52 +0200
Tom Gundersen wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 23, 2012 at 6:24 AM, Yclept Nemo wrote:
> > 3) Personally this depends on the final rc.conf, is [1] or [2] going
> > to be it?
> > [1]
> > http://projects.archlinux.org/initscripts.git/tree/rc.conf?id=ae28554e561517815c07330b2
On Mon, Jul 23, 2012 at 3:38 AM, Paul Gideon Dann wrote:
> On Sunday 22 Jul 2012 15:14:13 Myra Nelson wrote:
>> My comparison to file size was meant to be extended to the complete
>> removal of rc.d and conf.d or the removal of several files in those
>> directories. Maybe that concept is not that
> > to get rid of all that
> > Poetterix
>
> Once again this is not a technical argument, but a very subjective
> reason with - at least for me - no basis. Its more of a philosophy and
> that's not what this should be about.
>
> If you *really* like an audio stack without PulseAudio (which I w
> > that without ck. Change ownership of some things to a
> > 'local' login ? I don't want that to happen.
>
> You're free to fight again changes or improvements. The simplest way I
> know consist in installing a 70th year old system and don't update it.
You should work for Redhat.
--
___
> Once again: I'm not sure whether there ever was something like a "Unix"
> system. Furthermore I don't get why systemd is not Unix-like.
The Unix philosophy of write programs that do one thing and do it well.
Write programs to work together. Write programs to handle text streams,
because that is
> No, no. Even without merging tool, 3 or 5 files instead of one is not
> time consuming.
>
Ignoring systemctl output which is still less clear and slowed me down.
Show what daemons will be running if you were to boot a filesystem
which isn't running and tell me it's as quick to work out on a sy
> I will be too. I'm testing fedora in a virtualbox session, and besides
> some software not being truly "bleeding edge".
Except they chose grub2-beta (still beta, though grub2 is released)
before it supported automatic detection and multi-booting setup
requiring manual intervention. Arch are maki
> systemd is not difficult to use;
But it isn't as easy untill the gui comes along is it. I'd guess an
ncurses gui is planned but apparently Fedora is only meant as a desktop?
--
Why not do something good every day and install BOINC.
___
> >
> > However one fine day, an abrupt power-cut later, my home partition was no
> > longer mountable under systemd. Initscripts worked fine. So I switched
> > back..
> > didn't miss a thing..
>
> You're wrong. SysV init scripts _are_ broken, today. But it's silently
> failing without even
> > But developpers must know better than users what is the best for the
> > distro. Killing /etc/rc.conf ? Why not. But for me, it is more KISS
> > oriented than /etc/locale.conf, /etc/vconsole.conf,
> > /etc/modprobe.d/*.conf files.
> >
> > As I said, it is my $0.02. Excuse my bad english, I'm n
> > That said, Gentoo always had separate config files located
> > in /etc/conf.d. So the idea of not having one single rc.conf is not
> > this new. Nevertheless one single /etc/rc.conf makes the administration
> > a bit more comfortable, because you have all settings at a glance and
> > don't need
> I don't think a single Arch specific file is as simple as some
> "standardized" files, where the filename already tells you what it is
> supposed to do. Both comments and defaults are allowed and appreciated,
> so this is not an argument at all.
It is not necessarily this difference but the fact
> Of course you could complain directly upstream, but in general there are
> good reasons why they make use of things Polkit and ConsoleKit.
> Otherwise each and every program would have to implement the
> functionalities these packages provide for them self, which would be
> even worse.
Or much b
> i don't have any figures/proof but i think systemd is gaining quite a
> bit of populatiry on the embedded linux market -- where space and
> minimalist is king -- at least ii feel like i've read that a few times
> recently :-)
You must mean a fraction of the embedded world as.
Systemd is larger
> > Fair enough, but for this sort of thing, who is 'upstream' ?
>
> In this case the super-ingenious Lennart Poettering, I guess.
>
> That said, Gentoo always had separate config files located
> in /etc/conf.d. So the idea of not having one single rc.conf is not
> this new. Nevertheless one si
> > Simple example: I didn't have consolekit for some years, and I don't
> > care about whatever it has to offer. Recent updates of xdm have pulled
> > it in. So far it hasn't done anything evil except being useless and
> > consuming system resources (50 or so threads). Same about polkit, it's
> >
Am 23.07.2012 14:57, schrieb Tobias Powalowski:
> Hi guys,
>
> Upstream changes:
> http://kernelnewbies.org/LinuxChanges
>
> Please report any issues that arise.
> Thanks.
>
> greetings
> tpowa
>
Booted fine for me as well. I was affected by the backlight regression,
so its nice to see this in
2012/7/23 Ike Devolder :
> Op maandag 23 juli 2012 15:43:12 schreef fredbezies:
>> 2012/7/23 Tobias Powalowski :
>> > Hi guys,
>> >
>> > Upstream changes:
>> > http://kernelnewbies.org/LinuxChanges
>> >
>> > Please report any issues that arise.
>> > Thanks.
>> >
>> > greetings
>> > tpowa
>> > --
>>
Op maandag 23 juli 2012 15:43:12 schreef fredbezies:
> 2012/7/23 Tobias Powalowski :
> > Hi guys,
> >
> > Upstream changes:
> > http://kernelnewbies.org/LinuxChanges
> >
> > Please report any issues that arise.
> > Thanks.
> >
> > greetings
> > tpowa
> > --
> > Tobias Powalowski
> > Archlinux De
2012/7/23 Tobias Powalowski :
> Hi guys,
>
> Upstream changes:
> http://kernelnewbies.org/LinuxChanges
>
> Please report any issues that arise.
> Thanks.
>
> greetings
> tpowa
> --
> Tobias Powalowski
> Archlinux Developer & Package Maintainer (tpowa)
> http://www.archlinux.org
> tp...@archlinux.or
Hi guys,
Upstream changes:
http://kernelnewbies.org/LinuxChanges
Please report any issues that arise.
Thanks.
greetings
tpowa
--
Tobias Powalowski
Archlinux Developer & Package Maintainer (tpowa)
http://www.archlinux.org
tp...@archlinux.org
signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digit
[...]
>> Not 3, but 6 more files. I do agree you don't have to modify them
>> everyday, but it is - in a way - harder to set u than a single one.
> If it's documented it's hard?
>
> Sure one file would be easier, but if the 3,4,5 or 6 files are
> documented there should be no real problems.
I do a
On 23/07/12 13:10, fredbezies wrote:
> 2012/7/23 Rodrigo Rivas :
>> On Mon, Jul 23, 2012 at 12:35 PM, 1126
>> wrote:
>>
>>> For you this change might be a reason to switch to Fedora, you say. I
>>> mean, seriously? How is it all handled in Fedora then? Well, I don't
>>> now, actually.
>>>
>>
>> Fed
On Mon, Jul 23, 2012 at 3:29 AM, Oon-Ee Ng wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 23, 2012 at 9:04 AM, Sébastien Luttringer wrote:
>> On Mon, Jul 23, 2012 at 2:17 AM, Karol Babioch wrote:
>>> Am 23.07.2012 02:01, schrieb Sébastien Luttringer:
> My current practice is to use my own simple wrapper script to call
>
2012/7/23 Rodrigo Rivas :
> On Mon, Jul 23, 2012 at 12:35 PM, 1126
> wrote:
>
>> For you this change might be a reason to switch to Fedora, you say. I
>> mean, seriously? How is it all handled in Fedora then? Well, I don't
>> now, actually.
>>
>
> Fedora is RedHat, and that's where systemd came to
On Mon, Jul 23, 2012 at 12:35 PM, 1126
wrote:
> For you this change might be a reason to switch to Fedora, you say. I
> mean, seriously? How is it all handled in Fedora then? Well, I don't
> now, actually.
>
Fedora is RedHat, and that's where systemd came to live, so you can guess...
> - It's a
On 23 July 2012 11:35, 1126 wrote:
> Okay, time to drop my 0.02¢ as well. And I'm pretty sure everything said
> here in this mail has been said elsewhere as well, but hey... ;)
> [...]
> the features that ArchLinux really make the best linux distro out there imho:
> [...]
Good points indeed.
BTW
On Mon, Jul 23, 2012 at 6:24 AM, Yclept Nemo wrote:
> 3) Personally this depends on the final rc.conf, is [1] or [2] going
> to be it?
> [1]
> http://projects.archlinux.org/initscripts.git/tree/rc.conf?id=ae28554e561517815c07330b2b7d5ee5de2f6dc7
> [2]
> http://projects.archlinux.org/initscripts.
Okay, time to drop my 0.02¢ as well. And I'm pretty sure everything said
here in this mail has been said elsewhere as well, but hey... ;)
ArchLinux tries to be as KISS as possible. That's true. And I think, it
does a pretty good job at that. And switching to systemd with a couple
of config-files i
The 23/07/12, Fons Adriaensen wrote:
>Please tell me why you think
> I need it. Mount usb keys as a normal user ?
So, you're more aware of some benefits than what you stated before.
> I can arrange
> that without ck.
So,
On Mon, Jul 23, 2012 at 10:30:37AM +0200, Nicolas Sebrecht wrote:
> The 22/07/12, Fons Adriaensen wrote:
>
> > Simple example: I didn't have consolekit for some years, and I don't
> > care about whatever it has to offer.
>
> ...This may be why you don't understand benefits of such tools...
If yo
The 23/07/12, Heiko Baums wrote:
> Am Mon, 23 Jul 2012 09:36:05 +0200
> schrieb Nicolas Sebrecht :
> > Who is manually editing each configuration one after the other need
> > lessons on administration tasks.
>
> I don't think so. Who manually edits config files just don't trust all
> those mergin
Am Mon, 23 Jul 2012 09:36:05 +0200
schrieb Nicolas Sebrecht :
> Sounds like you (don't take this a personal critism, you're not alone)
> have poor administration practices.
First, I do have administration practices.
> Editing multiple files instead of
> one in not a problem at all. In fact, it's
On Sunday 22 Jul 2012 15:14:13 Myra Nelson wrote:
> My comparison to file size was meant to be extended to the complete
> removal of rc.d and conf.d or the removal of several files in those
> directories. Maybe that concept is not that important. I didn't mean
> to imply the KISS principle was abou
The 22/07/12, Fons Adriaensen wrote:
> Simple example: I didn't have consolekit for some years, and I don't
> care about whatever it has to offer.
...This may be why you don't understand benefits of such tools...
>So far it hasn't done anything evil except being useless and
> consuming s
Sébastien Luttringer on Mon, 2012/07/23 03:04:
> On Mon, Jul 23, 2012 at 2:17 AM, Karol Babioch wrote:
> > Are there systemd unit files for this?
>
> Not yet. Patch welcomed.
There are, please take a look at AUR package dkms-systemd.
--
main(a){char*c=/*Schoene Gruesse
The 22/07/12, Shridhar Daithankar wrote:
>
> I was on systemd once, about an year back.. just to find out first-hand, what
> the hoopla is all about. It worked, no fuss but nothing great over current
> initscripts for a typical developer workstation/desktop.
>
> However one fine day, an abrupt
The 22/07/12, Heiko Baums wrote:
> That said, Gentoo always had separate config files located
> in /etc/conf.d. So the idea of not having one single rc.conf is not
> this new. Nevertheless one single /etc/rc.conf makes the administration
> a bit more comfortable, because you have all settings at a
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