Re: [Tutor] plz find error

[Cameron Simpson]

On 10Jul2014 09:47, Mandar Dhadve  wrote:

#!/usr/bin/env python

[... short program to send ICMP packets, purpose undescribed ...]

Hi Mandar,

Please describe the purpose and background of this program, and describe in 
what way it fails. Include a transcript of a failed run if possible.


Just supplying some code without any accompanying text isn't very helpful to 
the people who may help you.


Thanks,
Cameron Simpson 

... It beeped and said "Countdown initiated." Is that bad?
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Re: [Tutor] plz find error

[Mark Lawrence]

On 10/07/2014 08:23, Cameron Simpson wrote:

On 10Jul2014 09:47, Mandar Dhadve  wrote:

#!/usr/bin/env python

[... short program to send ICMP packets, purpose undescribed ...]

Hi Mandar,

Please describe the purpose and background of this program, and describe
in what way it fails. Include a transcript of a failed run if possible.

Just supplying some code without any accompanying text isn't very
helpful to the people who may help you.



For the OP and anybody else who may be interested http://sscce.org/


Thanks,
Cameron Simpson 

... It beeped and said "Countdown initiated." Is that bad?


--
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask 
what you can do for our language.


Mark Lawrence

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Re: [Tutor] How to Create Webpage with Python

[Walter Prins]

Hi,

On 10 July 2014 02:30, John Cast  wrote:
> Web - Currently it looks like maybe static HTML page(s) generated every time
> my script is run is the right way to go?

It would be one way to proceed, yes, perhaps the most appropriate way
for you for now.

>   It sounds like I need a server on my desktop?

Note that Python includes in the Python standard library a simple HTTP
web server (module SimpleHTTPServer, in Python 3x http.server) which
can be used by itself and is often used (sometimes with
embellishments) by many/most of the Python web frameworks to run web
servers for development/small scale use.

Concretely: you run a command that start a simple Python based HTTP
server that then serves up the generated or development site from your
local machine for review/development purposes.   In the most basic
case you open a command prompt, change directory to your HTML site
contents, then run the command: python -m SimpleHTTPServer

Proper production deployment will depend on the nature of the site.

For a static site (meaning it is in essence just HTML pages), you
would push the site to some suitable webserver you've installed
somewhere (Apache, Nginx, IIS etc.)

For a dynamic site using a web framework you'd need a web server
configured to run your Python based site, meaning you'd need for
example Apache + mod_wsgi with Python and your chosen web framework
installed, in addition to any Database requirements/dependencies (for
example MySQL or PostgreSQL).

>   I need to create a site and host/serve this somehow using my
> server?

Assuming you're going be generating static HTML pages, yes.

>   I don't need a webframework to do this?

No, but you need something to help you generate the HTML pages.
Unless you just want to generate them yourself from absolute scratch,
which of course you can also do.

>   Need some mechanism to get these HTML page(s) to my site?

For a static site, deploying it means copying the site contents (HTML
files and attendant resources) to the correct folder by whatever means
is most convenient, from which the production web server will the
serve it to the intended audience.  An FTP client would be one way,
assuming the web server also has FTP access.  Another would be to make
the web server's root folder into a version control repository (e.g.
git, mercurial or such.) Serving directly from a version control
repository (e.g. say git) would mean you can in essence simply "push"
changes to the live website once you'e happy with your changes.
Regardless of how you deploy it, using version control is recommended
as it will allow you to properly manage your site over time, for
example reverting to a previous version in case of problems.

Walter
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Re: [Tutor] A beginner having problems with inheritance

[Sydney Shall]

On 09/07/2014 20:17, Danny Yoo wrote:

My error was simply that I inadvertently used the same name for a method
(function) in the derived class that I had already used in the parent class.
The result was then a very obscure error because the wrong calculation was
performed and later on an array was empty.
Fortunately, thanks to you very generous tutors I have learned to read the
error trace very carefully indeed.


Ah, yes, that one.  It's happened to me too.

It's one of the reasons why inheritance makes me nervous sometimes.
It's a problem that's fairly language-independent.

(If you'd like to know the details, the example that I was involved in
is described in the comments on:
https://github.com/bootstrapworld/js-numbers/pull/5.  Essentially, we
subclassed some base class, and wrote a method called BigNumber.exp()
to do exponentiation.  Unfortunately, we didn't realize that our
superclass already had defined an exp() method.  It ended up showing
up as a very strange, obscure error.  Same class of problem.)


Side note, Python does have a hack called "name mangling" that can be
used to try to avoid this problem:

 
https://docs.python.org/2/tutorial/classes.html#private-variables-and-class-local-references


Good luck!


Thanks for the reply.
I had read the second reference that you gave some time ago, but of 
course I had forgotten about it.

I shall try and make use of it now.
Thanks for the help.

--
Sydney Shall
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Re: [Tutor] plz find error

[Wolfgang Maier]

plz provide info :(

State the problem you are trying to solve and your program's expected 
output.

Include any error messages you are getting - the full
text not a summary.
It's also helpful if you state the Python and OS version you are using.


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Re: [Tutor] How to Create Webpage with Python

[Chris “Kwpolska” Warrick]

On Thu, Jul 10, 2014 at 3:30 AM, John Cast  wrote:
> I'm in unfamiliar territory with the web stuff, but it sounds so far like I
> will generate an HTML doc every time I run my script and then somehow turn
> that HTML doc into a static site?  (My terminology is weak here I'm sure)

If you go with the static website route, you will have to:

(a) generate a reStructuredText/Markdown/HTML file that your static
site generator (like Pelican, or Nikola* ) will
turn into a nice, pretty website for you, or
(b) just generate one HTML file, skipping the “static site generator” part.

> Web - Currently it looks like maybe static HTML page(s) generated every time
> my script is run is the right way to go?

Yes — it’s generally easier and nicer to do this, unless you were to
run your script very, VERY often.

>   It sounds like I need a server on my desktop?
>   I need to create a site and host/serve this somehow using my
> server?

Hosting websites off a desktop can be troublesome.  Your computer must
stay on all the time (or at least at the times when the website should
be accessible), you have to get a static IP, or use a dynamic DNS
service, and that’s assuming your ISP won’t hate you for hosting a
website.  It might be better to use an actual server instead.

>   I don't need a webframework to do this?

If you’re staying with static webpages, then yes.

* disclaimer: I’m quite involved with Nikola’s development; however,
even with that aside, I believe Nikola is much more human-friendly
than Pelican.  To each their own, though.

-- 
Chris “Kwpolska” Warrick 
PGP: 5EAAEA16
stop html mail | always bottom-post | only UTF-8 makes sense
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Re: [Tutor] How can I open and use gnome-terminal from a Python script?

[Jim Byrnes]

On 07/09/2014 05:40 PM, Cameron Simpson wrote:

On 09Jul2014 09:00, Jim Byrnes  wrote:

My mistake.  I went to the Docs page and clicked on modules and then
os. For some reason as I was scrolling down the page I thought the
subject had changed and stopped reading.  Now I see I stopped reading
to soon as it is much further down the page.


When searching for doco on particular functions I find the Index is a
good place. Go to the "S" section and find "system"; there should be a
link directly to the relevant doc section.

Cheers,
Cameron Simpson 



There was, thanks for the tip.

Regards,  Jim


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Re: [Tutor] How can I open and use gnome-terminal from a Python script?

[Jim Byrnes]

On 07/09/2014 04:16 PM, Walter Prins wrote:

Hi Jim,

On 9 July 2014 14:43, Jim Byrnes  wrote:


On 07/09/2014 04:27 AM, Walter Prins wrote:


I forgot to mention I am using Linux (Ubuntu 12.04).



I am working my way through a book about breezypythongui which uses Python
3, hence virtualenv.  I found that each time I started to work with it I
did the above 3 steps, I was just looking to automatic that repetitive task.



In that case you should put these commands in your .bashrc file so it gets
set up as your user's default.  (The .bashrc file is somewhat like DOS's
"autoexec.bat" file, if you're familiar with this, except each user has
their own .bashrc.)  You can also create a shell script that does this for
you.  (You can install "virtualenv wrapper" which gives you some further
commands to make working with virtualenvs easier.)

Regards

Walter



I realize I could have used a shell script but since I was working with 
Python I thought I might learn some more Python by trying to use it.  As 
it turns out, I did learn quite a bit through this discussion.


Thanks for the pointer to virtualenv wrapper.

Regards,  Jim


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[Tutor] Anti-Patterns in Python Programming

[Mark Lawrence]

Just came across this and thought it might be handy for newbies, lurkers 
and the like http://lignos.org/py_antipatterns/


--
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask 
what you can do for our language.


Mark Lawrence

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Re: [Tutor] How to Create Webpage with Python

[Alex Kleider]

On 2014-07-10 05:28, Chris “Kwpolska” Warrick wrote:

On Thu, Jul 10, 2014 at 3:30 AM, John Cast  wrote:



  It sounds like I need a server on my desktop?
  I need to create a site and host/serve this somehow using my
server?


Hosting websites off a desktop can be troublesome.  Your computer must
stay on all the time (or at least at the times when the website should
be accessible), you have to get a static IP, or use a dynamic DNS
service, and that’s assuming your ISP won’t hate you for hosting a
website.  It might be better to use an actual server instead.


If all you want is to check how your 'site' looks perhaps it'd be much 
simpler to simply point your browser to your parent html file rather 
than set up a server machine to serve it:

file:///home/yourusername/yoursubdirectory/index.html
It'll look exactly the same as it would if you were running it on a 
server.

(or am I missing something?)
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Re: [Tutor] How to Create Webpage with Python

[Chris “Kwpolska” Warrick]

On Thu, Jul 10, 2014 at 6:40 PM, Alex Kleider  wrote:
> If all you want is to check how your 'site' looks perhaps it'd be much
> simpler to simply point your browser to your parent html file rather than
> set up a server machine to serve it:
> file:///home/yourusername/yoursubdirectory/index.html
> It'll look exactly the same as it would if you were running it on a server.
> (or am I missing something?)

JavaScript may not work.  The same might also happen with links and
resources using the // scheme (//example.com/ instead of
http://example.com/)

For local testing, use

python -m SimpleHTTPServer

or, if you’re on Python 3,

python3 -m http.server

-- 
Chris “Kwpolska” Warrick 
PGP: 5EAAEA16
stop html mail | always bottom-post | only UTF-8 makes sense
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[Tutor] Gmane archive/web site

[Alan Gauld]

I just tried accessing gmane and the web site(*) seems to be down.
The news server is working OK but the web site is not responding.
(*)
www.gmane.org

Is it a problem at my end? or are others experiencing the same?

--
Alan G
Author of the Learn to Program web site
http://www.alan-g.me.uk/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/alangauldphotos
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Re: [Tutor] Anti-Patterns in Python Programming

[Albert-Jan Roskam]

>Just came across this and thought it might be handy for newbies, lurkers and 
>the like http://lignos.org/py_antipatterns/
>

This one is also nice:
https://docs.python.org/3.1/howto/doanddont.html
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Re: [Tutor] Gmane archive/web site

[Mark Lawrence]

On 10/07/2014 17:59, Alan Gauld wrote:

I just tried accessing gmane and the web site(*) seems to be down.
The news server is working OK but the web site is not responding.
(*)
www.gmane.org

Is it a problem at my end? or are others experiencing the same?



http://www.downforeveryoneorjustme.com/www.gmane.org says it's down.

--
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask 
what you can do for our language.


Mark Lawrence

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Re: [Tutor] Gmane archive/web site

[Jim Byrnes]

On 07/10/2014 11:59 AM, Alan Gauld wrote:

I just tried accessing gmane and the web site(*) seems to be down.
The news server is working OK but the web site is not responding.
(*)
www.gmane.org

Is it a problem at my end? or are others experiencing the same?



I just tried it and it timed out without connecting.

Regards,  Jim

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Re: [Tutor] Anti-Patterns in Python Programming

[Mark Lawrence]

On 10/07/2014 19:06, Albert-Jan Roskam wrote:



Just came across this and thought it might be handy for newbies, lurkers and 
the like http://lignos.org/py_antipatterns/



This one is also nice:
https://docs.python.org/3.1/howto/doanddont.html



Links of the format https://docs.python.org/3/howto/doanddont.html are 
always up to date, the one you give is by definition 3.1 specific and so 
will never change until such time as it presumably disappears completely.


--
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask 
what you can do for our language.


Mark Lawrence

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[Tutor] sometimes I feel like my head is going to explode

[Deb Wyatt]

The more I learn, the more I realize that there is so much more to learn, and 
the more difficult some of the stuff to learn seems to be.  I'm not sure that I 
would have set out on this journey to learn Python if I had known how massive 
the task was going to be. I AM enjoying it, but my gosh, when am I ever going 
to feel like I have a handle on this stuff?

That is all.  

Deb in WA, USA


FREE 3D MARINE AQUARIUM SCREENSAVER - Watch dolphins, sharks & orcas on your 
desktop!
Check it out at http://www.inbox.com/marineaquarium


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Re: [Tutor] sometimes I feel like my head is going to explode

[Danny Yoo]

On Thu, Jul 10, 2014 at 3:35 PM, Deb Wyatt  wrote:
> The more I learn, the more I realize that there is so much more to learn, and 
> the more difficult some of the stuff to learn seems to be.  I'm not sure that 
> I would have set out on this journey to learn Python if I had known how 
> massive the task was going to be. I AM enjoying it, but my gosh, when am I 
> ever going to feel like I have a handle on this stuff?


If it helps: I'm still learning, and I've been at it for a while.  So
have many of the others here.

Take it one step at a time.  Try cementing knowledge by really
building things.  Talk to others.

As Piet Hein says:

Err
and err
and err again
but less
and less
and less.

As Peter Norvig says: http://norvig.com/21-days.html

Most of the fundamental knowledge you're picking up should probably
not be too tied to Python.  In the best case, the skills should
transfer to many of the other in-vogue programming languages out there
today.
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Re: [Tutor] sometimes I feel like my head is going to explode

[Sacha Rook]

At some point in time you will get to a place where you know enough, never
everything. That's what makes it fun

-Original Message-
From: Tutor [mailto:tutor-bounces+sacharook=gmail@python.org] On Behalf
Of Deb Wyatt
Sent: 10 July 2014 23:36
To: tutor@python.org
Subject: [Tutor] sometimes I feel like my head is going to explode

The more I learn, the more I realize that there is so much more to learn,
and the more difficult some of the stuff to learn seems to be.  I'm not sure
that I would have set out on this journey to learn Python if I had known how
massive the task was going to be. I AM enjoying it, but my gosh, when am I
ever going to feel like I have a handle on this stuff?

That is all.  

Deb in WA, USA


FREE 3D MARINE AQUARIUM SCREENSAVER - Watch dolphins, sharks & orcas on your
desktop!
Check it out at http://www.inbox.com/marineaquarium


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Re: [Tutor] sometimes I feel like my head is going to explode

[Danny Yoo]

By the way, there was a nice talk from Camille Fournier that might be
relevant to you:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sc8sc-ELMhA

Unfortunately, last time I checked, her presentation cuts off near the
end.  But the bangbangcon folks did a lot of great work on recording
their conference, including writing transcripts for all the talks, so
you can read the rest of her talk here:

https://github.com/hausdorff/bangbangcon.github.io/blob/gh-pages/2014-transcripts/camille-fournier-how-to-stay-in-love-with-programming.txt


There's a line in the talk that made me giggle.  You'll know the line
when you get to it.  It has to do with love.
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Re: [Tutor] sometimes I feel like my head is going to explode

[Mark Lawrence]

On 10/07/2014 23:35, Deb Wyatt wrote:

The more I learn, the more I realize that there is so much more to learn, and 
the more difficult some of the stuff to learn seems to be.  I'm not sure that I 
would have set out on this journey to learn Python if I had known how massive 
the task was going to be. I AM enjoying it, but my gosh, when am I ever going 
to feel like I have a handle on this stuff?

That is all.

Deb in WA, USA



THINK BIG start small.  Little steps.  Divide and conquer.  I'd guess 
that you've heard at least one of those if not all of them.


Personally I don't believe that you can call yourself a professional 
programmer until you've inadvertantly written an infinite number of 
infinite loops :)


--
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask 
what you can do for our language.


Mark Lawrence

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Re: [Tutor] sometimes I feel like my head is going to explode

[Cameron Simpson]

On 10Jul2014 14:35, Deb Wyatt  wrote:

The more I learn, the more I realize that there is so much more to learn, and 
the more difficult some of the stuff to learn seems to be.  I'm not sure that I 
would have set out on this journey to learn Python if I had known how massive 
the task was going to be. I AM enjoying it, but my gosh, when am I ever going 
to feel like I have a handle on this stuff?


After about a year? Your mileage may vary.

Seriously, you'll never know everything.

When you're comfortable writiing arbitrary small things as needed, and 
progressively bigger things (often by getting good at stitching your smaller 
things together). You'll always need to consult doco for specifics and for 
anything new.  Don't worry too much about that.


Cheers,
Cameron Simpson 

Serious error.
All shortcuts have disappeared.
Screen. Mind. Both are blank.
- Haiku Error Messages 
http://www.salonmagazine.com/21st/chal/1998/02/10chal2.html
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Re: [Tutor] sometimes I feel like my head is going to explode

[Dave Angel]

Mark Lawrence  Wrote in message:
> On 
> THINK BIG start small.  Little steps.  Divide and conquer.  I'd guess 
> that you've heard at least one of those if not all of them.
> 
> Personally I don't believe that you can call yourself a professional 
> programmer until you've inadvertantly written an infinite number of 
> infinite loops :)
> 
>

I wrote code whose purpose was to generate other code whose
 purpose was to generate code that in turn was a library. The code
 that I wrote using that library had a purpose of modifying code
 being compiled by a customer of this system.  And this approach
 was the quickest way I could find to solve the original problem. 
 And I was issued a patent on the end result. 

Incidentally the generated code was used without manual editing,
 but was properly indented and commented,  to make debugging
 possible. 


-- 
DaveA

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Re: [Tutor] How to Create Webpage with Python

[John Cast]

Thanks everyone again for the great support.

Right now I have a very basic server running using the http module (I'm
using python 3).  My next step is to generating the HTML pages so that the
formatting of the excel docs stays pretty much the same except that it gets
shown on the web.

For future reference (assuming everything else goes well) how do I procure
a more permanent server (i.e. one that doesn't run on my machine so that I
can turn it off and still be able to visit my pages)?  I'm hearing Apache
and so forth being thrown around (I've read up a little on it) but it seems
those would still run on my local computer.
What am I missing?

I'll keep everyone posted on how the excel parsing turns out.

Thanks again


On Thu, Jul 10, 2014 at 10:24 AM, Chris “Kwpolska” Warrick <
kwpol...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thu, Jul 10, 2014 at 6:40 PM, Alex Kleider  wrote:
> > If all you want is to check how your 'site' looks perhaps it'd be much
> > simpler to simply point your browser to your parent html file rather than
> > set up a server machine to serve it:
> > file:///home/yourusername/yoursubdirectory/index.html
> > It'll look exactly the same as it would if you were running it on a
> server.
> > (or am I missing something?)
>
> JavaScript may not work.  The same might also happen with links and
> resources using the // scheme (//example.com/ instead of
> http://example.com/)
>
> For local testing, use
>
> python -m SimpleHTTPServer
>
> or, if you’re on Python 3,
>
> python3 -m http.server
>
> --
> Chris “Kwpolska” Warrick 
> PGP: 5EAAEA16
> stop html mail | always bottom-post | only UTF-8 makes sense
> ___
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Re: [Tutor] How to Create Webpage with Python

[Danny Yoo]

> For future reference (assuming everything else goes well) how do I
procure a more permanent server (i.e. one that doesn't run on my machine so
that I can turn it off and still be able to visit my pages)?  I'm hearing
Apache and so forth being thrown around (I've read up a little on it) but
it seems those would still run on my local computer.

If you are still associated with your university, you might be able to host
your web site with them.

Otherwise, there are "hosting services" that maintain servers for you:
often you just upload the web site to such a service in exchange for some
subscription fee.  There's a wide spectrum of what a hosting service will
provide you.

The ones I use for my personal and professional use are webfaction.com and
appengine.google.com.  I'm sure others can give more suggestions.
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Re: [Tutor] sometimes I feel like my head is going to explode

[Alan Gauld]

On 10/07/14 23:35, Deb Wyatt wrote:

The more I learn, the more I realize that there is so much more to learn,


Just get used to the idea that there is no end.
Computer programming is such a young subject - less than
70 years old in practice - that it is still growing rapidly.
By the time you learn all there is to learn, there will be
as much again new stuff!

I've been programming since 1974 and yet there is so much new
and exciting developments happening right now that I think
there is more to learn than when I started.

But that's what makes it fun!

And don't let the fact you don't know it all prevent you
from using the knowledge you do have. Apply what you have,
learn what you can, and make a note of interesting things
for the future.

--
Alan G
Author of the Learn to Program web site
http://www.alan-g.me.uk/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/alangauldphotos

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