Re: [Tutor] [OT] Replies go to individuals, not the list?

[Alan Gauld]

On 20/08/13 01:18, Leam Hall wrote:


Am I more confused than normal or if I click "Reply" should it go just
to the sender instead of the list?


Reply replies to the sender.

Reply All replies to the whole list

Some mail tools also have a Reply List feature which
also replies to the list.


--
Alan G
Author of the Learn to Program web site
http://www.alan-g.me.uk/

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Re: [Tutor] Coursera Python Course starts today

[Luke Pettit]

https://plus.google.com/u/0/communities/10076754413628630

Is a G+ community for that very course feel free to join


On 20 August 2013 16:14, Anung Ariwibowo  wrote:

> Just started today before catching bus to work. I will start this evening.
>
> Regards,
> Anung
>
>
> On 8/20/13, Leam Hall  wrote:
> > A little cooperation is motivating. I have finished up Week 1 but I was
> > a few minutes late for work this morning!  :)
> >
> > You?
> >
> > Leam
> >
> > On 08/19/2013 08:12 PM, barli...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> Let's discuss our progress then, if it is allowed by list rules. I was
> >> just retake the course as well.
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> Anung
> >>
> >> Sent from my BlackBerry® smartphone from Sinyal Bagus XL, Nyambung
> >> Teruuusss...!
> >>
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: Leam Hall 
> >> Sender: "Tutor" Date:
> Mon, 19
> >> Aug 2013 20:02:25
> >> To: 
> >> Subject: [Tutor] Coursera Python Course starts today
> >>
> >> Hey all,
> >>
> >> In case I'm not the absolute last person to know, the newest edition of
> >> the Coursera "Learn to Program" course started today. It is Python
> >> based, free, lasts 7 weeks, and pretty fun. I didn't get a certificate
> >> last time as life got in the way. Hope to succeed this time.
> >>
> >> https://class.coursera.org/programming1-002/class/index
> >>
> >> Leam
> >>
> > --
> > http://31challenge.net
> > http://31challenge.net/insight
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-- 
Luke Pettit ,,, ^..^,,,
http://lukepettit-3d.blogspot.com/
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Re: [Tutor] . http.server -- stuck at binding [windows8]

[Shanmukha Surya Teja]

Actually I am using the Simple HTTP Server class to implement it but
instead of redirecting to a html file, I am redirecting it to a media file
:P

use google my friend...if ur still unable to do it, I'll post the code as a
reply to that message


On Mon, Aug 19, 2013 at 6:46 PM, Engineering wrote:

> Since you are behind a router , ipconfig will only show the address of
> your machine which has been given by the router. Ipconfig cannot see beyond
> the  router. 
>
> If you work within your own LAN , the IP address of your machine is
> sufficient for the socket. 
>
> If you want to access from outside , there should be port forwarding
> enabled on your router.
>
> ** **
>
> One of my personal interest . I have done an HTTP server on Python using
> twisted and autobahn to control my arduino micro controller. But , I want
> to stream media using it for my OpenCV to access it. 
>
> ** **
>
> How are you streaming  videos?
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> *CLEANTECH SOLUTION*
>
> *www.cleantechsolution.in*
>
> * *
>
> SAVE PAPER , SAVE EARTH
>
> * *
>
> ** **
>



-- 
Surya Teja
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Re: [Tutor] Coursera Python Course starts today

[zubair alam]

i signed up for the course...lets see how much i gain from this.


On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 11:43 AM, Anung Ariwibowo wrote:

> This should go to the list
>
> Let's discuss our progress then, if it is allowed by list rules. I was
> just retake the course as well.
>
> Regards,
> Anung
>
>
> On 8/20/13, Leam Hall  wrote:
> > Hey all,
> >
> > In case I'm not the absolute last person to know, the newest edition of
> > the Coursera "Learn to Program" course started today. It is Python
> > based, free, lasts 7 weeks, and pretty fun. I didn't get a certificate
> > last time as life got in the way. Hope to succeed this time.
> >
> > https://class.coursera.org/programming1-002/class/index
> >
> > Leam
> >
> >
> > --
> > http://31challenge.net
> > http://31challenge.net/insight
> > ___
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Re: [Tutor] Coursera Python Course starts today

[zubair alam]

@anung..have you started this course?


On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 11:44 AM, Anung Ariwibowo wrote:

> Just started today before catching bus to work. I will start this evening.
>
> Regards,
> Anung
>
>
> On 8/20/13, Leam Hall  wrote:
> > A little cooperation is motivating. I have finished up Week 1 but I was
> > a few minutes late for work this morning!  :)
> >
> > You?
> >
> > Leam
> >
> > On 08/19/2013 08:12 PM, barli...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> Let's discuss our progress then, if it is allowed by list rules. I was
> >> just retake the course as well.
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> Anung
> >>
> >> Sent from my BlackBerry® smartphone from Sinyal Bagus XL, Nyambung
> >> Teruuusss...!
> >>
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: Leam Hall 
> >> Sender: "Tutor" Date:
> Mon, 19
> >> Aug 2013 20:02:25
> >> To: 
> >> Subject: [Tutor] Coursera Python Course starts today
> >>
> >> Hey all,
> >>
> >> In case I'm not the absolute last person to know, the newest edition of
> >> the Coursera "Learn to Program" course started today. It is Python
> >> based, free, lasts 7 weeks, and pretty fun. I didn't get a certificate
> >> last time as life got in the way. Hope to succeed this time.
> >>
> >> https://class.coursera.org/programming1-002/class/index
> >>
> >> Leam
> >>
> > --
> > http://31challenge.net
> > http://31challenge.net/insight
> ___
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Re: [Tutor] [OT] Replies go to individuals, not the list?

[Andy McKenzie]

On Mon, Aug 19, 2013 at 8:18 PM, Leam Hall  wrote:

> All,
>
> Am I more confused than normal or if I click "Reply" should it go just to
> the sender instead of the list?
>

Yep.  Someone decided it didn't make sense for "reply" to go to the list
that sent the message and should be receiving the reply.  I've never
understood it, even after reading the arguments in favor.

Andy
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[Tutor] python tutoring

[Fowler, Trent]

Hello, 

Not long ago I came across the website of a professional programmer offering 
python tutoring services:

http://www.jeffknupp.com/python-tutoring/

I have attempted to contact him because I am interested but I've been unable to 
get in touch.  I was wondering if anyone knew of people offering similar 
services.  I am a self-starter and highly motivated, but I live in a small town 
in South Korea and I don't have any friends who program.  Since I also don't 
have a computer science background and python is my first language, I really 
need someone who can help me with the beginning stages.  Often times when I run 
into a problem not only do I not know how to solve it, I don't even know how to 
ask the questions that will help someone else solve it.  

I don't want to be spoon-fed, just gently nudged and guided.  I'm on a budget 
but I'd be willing to pay for a good teacher.  Preliminary googling has turned 
up precious little, so I thought someone here might be able to point me in the 
right direction.  

Thanks,

-Trent.
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Re: [Tutor] I need a good resource for python Django

[Jared Nielsen]

> Hi,
>
> Can anyone suggest me a good resource for python Django. I've gone through
> the official website of Django but it is of limited use to me. Any help on
> this would be highly appreciated.

I recommend Mike Hibbert's YouTube series on Django.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oT1A1KKf0SI&feature=c4-overview-vl&list=PLxxA5z-8B2xk4szCgFmgonNcCboyNneMD

It's the most comprehensive and easy to follow tutorial I've found.

Otherwise go to the Google django-users group and search. Someone asks this
question everyday.



-- 
http://jarednielsen.com
http://thehelloworldprogram.com
http://dototot.com
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Re: [Tutor] python tutoring

[Prasad, Ramit]

Fowler, Trent wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> 
> Not long ago I came across the website of a professional programmer offering 
> python tutoring services:
> 
> http://www.jeffknupp.com/python-tutoring/
> 
> I have attempted to contact him because I am interested but I've been unable 
> to get in touch.  I was
> wondering if anyone knew of people offering similar services.  I am a 
> self-starter and highly
> motivated, but I live in a small town in South Korea and I don't have any 
> friends who program.  Since
> I also don't have a computer science background and python is my first 
> language, I really need someone
> who can help me with the beginning stages.  Often times when I run into a 
> problem not only do I not
> know how to solve it, I don't even know how to ask the questions that will 
> help someone else solve it.
> 
> I don't want to be spoon-fed, just gently nudged and guided.  I'm on a budget 
> but I'd be willing to
> pay for a good teacher.  Preliminary googling has turned up precious little, 
> so I thought someone here
> might be able to point me in the right direction.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> -Trent.

Why not just post your questions on here? I mean, that *is* the purpose
of this list. There are some very excellent tutors on here which has 
the advantage of not being limited to only one tutor's level of experience. 
Not to mention it is free. :)

I would recommend reading http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html, 
posting in plain text and bottom or in-line posting. 

In general, try and reduce the amount of code to the smallest example you can.
Provide Python version, operating system, code, input, expected output, 
actual output, and any exceptions with full trace (copy and paste the full 
message, not paraphrasing or retyping).



Ramit



This email is confidential and subject to important disclaimers and conditions 
including on offers for the purchase or sale of securities, accuracy and 
completeness of information, viruses, confidentiality, legal privilege, and 
legal entity disclaimers, available at 
http://www.jpmorgan.com/pages/disclosures/email.  
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Re: [Tutor] [OT] Replies go to individuals, not the list?

[Oscar Benjamin]

On 20 August 2013 13:15, Andy McKenzie  wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 19, 2013 at 8:18 PM, Leam Hall  wrote:
>>
>> Am I more confused than normal or if I click "Reply" should it go just to
>> the sender instead of the list?
>
> Yep.  Someone decided it didn't make sense for "reply" to go to the list
> that sent the message and should be receiving the reply.  I've never
> understood it, even after reading the arguments in favor.

I've never understood it either. The reasoning seems to be that a
special List-Post email field was added for this purpose and so all
the email clients should get fixed to have a reply-list button that
sends your reply to that address. It's been almost 10 years since RFC
4021 described this idea (or is it even older?) during which time the
number of email clients in use has exploded and AFAIK very few of them
have the reply-list feature.

Some time ago I suggested reply-to munging for this very list but
there wasn't a great deal of enthusiasm for the idea.


Oscar
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Re: [Tutor] python tutoring

[leam hall]

Trent,

You can do well with Alan's on-line pages (
http://www.freenetpages.co.uk/hp/alan.gauld/) and just ask questions here.
The biggest thing is to pick a big enough but not too big project. Using
Python as your first programming language will spoil you, though, it's a
great language and covers a lot of options.

Leam


On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 10:52 AM, Prasad, Ramit <
ramit.pra...@jpmorgan.com.dmarc.invalid> wrote:

> Fowler, Trent wrote:
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > Not long ago I came across the website of a professional programmer
> offering python tutoring services:
> >
> > http://www.jeffknupp.com/python-tutoring/
> >
> > I have attempted to contact him because I am interested but I've been
> unable to get in touch.  I was
> > wondering if anyone knew of people offering similar services.  I am a
> self-starter and highly
> > motivated, but I live in a small town in South Korea and I don't have
> any friends who program.  Since
> > I also don't have a computer science background and python is my first
> language, I really need someone
> > who can help me with the beginning stages.  Often times when I run into
> a problem not only do I not
> > know how to solve it, I don't even know how to ask the questions that
> will help someone else solve it.
> >
> > I don't want to be spoon-fed, just gently nudged and guided.  I'm on a
> budget but I'd be willing to
> > pay for a good teacher.  Preliminary googling has turned up precious
> little, so I thought someone here
> > might be able to point me in the right direction.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > -Trent.
>
> Why not just post your questions on here? I mean, that *is* the purpose
> of this list. There are some very excellent tutors on here which has
> the advantage of not being limited to only one tutor's level of experience.
> Not to mention it is free. :)
>
> I would recommend reading
> http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html,
> posting in plain text and bottom or in-line posting.
>
> In general, try and reduce the amount of code to the smallest example you
> can.
> Provide Python version, operating system, code, input, expected output,
> actual output, and any exceptions with full trace (copy and paste the full
> message, not paraphrasing or retyping).
>
>
>
> Ramit
>
>
>
> This email is confidential and subject to important disclaimers and
> conditions including on offers for the purchase or sale of securities,
> accuracy and completeness of information, viruses, confidentiality, legal
> privilege, and legal entity disclaimers, available at
> http://www.jpmorgan.com/pages/disclosures/email.
> ___
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> To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
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>



-- 
Mind on a Mission 
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Re: [Tutor] python tutoring

[Walter Prins]

Hi,

On 20 August 2013 14:22, Fowler, Trent  wrote:

> I am a self-starter and highly motivated, but I live in a small town in
> South Korea and I don't have any friends who program.  Since I also don't
> have a computer science background and python is my first language, I
> really need someone who can help me with the beginning stages.  Often times
> when I run into a problem not only do I not know how to solve it, I don't
> even know how to ask the questions that will help someone else solve it.
>

Want to echo Ramit's sentiments.  While the people here are volunteers and
do not take kindly to having their time wasted by obvious laziness or lack
of effort from the side of questioners, we do like helping and teaching
others Python, and also like seeing and learning from others' questions.
 Even basic questions can sometimes spark pretty interesting discussions
that is beneficial to the wider readership and not just the original poster.

As far as picking up Python: There's a lot of video tutorials on the web,
including a lot of decent stuff on showmedo.com  Some of it's not free and
requires membership (with the free set growing and being pretty substantial
in any case.)  Either way the $29 annual price is hopefully cheap enough to
not be an obstacle should you choose to want to see the non-free stuff:
http://showmedo.com/club/joinus?smdc=pyban

Good luck,

Walter
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Re: [Tutor] Coursera Python Course starts today

[bessenkphilip]

Thank you. need to check out. Me too completed first 2 weeks but haven't 
completed the full course.

 -Bessen

On 08/20/2013 05:32 AM, Leam Hall wrote:

Hey all,

In case I'm not the absolute last person to know, the newest edition 
of the Coursera "Learn to Program" course started today. It is Python 
based, free, lasts 7 weeks, and pretty fun. I didn't get a certificate 
last time as life got in the way. Hope to succeed this time.


https://class.coursera.org/programming1-002/class/index

Leam




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[Tutor] is the the two style of writting the same?

[sikonai sikonai]

>>> list=[1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9]
>>> list[9:0:-2]
[9, 7, 5, 3]
>>> list[10:0:-2]
[9, 7, 5, 3]

I want to know whether they have some difference.
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Re: [Tutor] hi

[Vick]

-Original Message-
From: Oscar Benjamin [mailto:oscar.j.benja...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, 13 August, 2013 01:01


> Well just send me some tutorial on how to build and obtain the 
> coefficients for the butcher tableau for the RK4 as an example, and 
> after I've mastered it, I'd give the dopri8 a shot.

I am up for it so I'll see if I can find time to write a script that shows
how to do it.

[Vick] Hope you've had the time to code it. I'm waiting for it.

By the way your code for the Adams-Moulton coefficients are actually the
Adams-Bashforth ones and so I copied it and modified the copy to have the
Adams-Moulton coefficients as well. This means that I have now an nth-order
predictor-corrector method to solve for ODEs.

Vick

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[Tutor] I have download python 3.3, then I click the link of Module Docs, but nothing appears

[tan Sikonai]

where is the docs
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Re: [Tutor] is the the two style of writting the same?

[tan Sikonai]

?


2013/8/20 sikonai sikonai 

> >>> list=[1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9]
> >>> list[9:0:-2]
> [9, 7, 5, 3]
> >>> list[10:0:-2]
> [9, 7, 5, 3]
>
> I want to know whether they have some difference.
>
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Re: [Tutor] [OT] Replies go to individuals, not the list?

[Andy McKenzie]

On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 2:53 PM, Alan Gauld wrote:

> On 20/08/13 13:15, Andy McKenzie wrote:
>
>  Yep.  Someone decided it didn't make sense for "reply" to go to the list
>> that sent the message
>>
>
> Lists never send messages. People do.
>
> So reply goes to the *person* who sent the message.
> Which is what mail always does, to modify it for mail
> forwarded by a list server makes no sense whatsoever.
> And it breaks the ability to send to the originator.
>
> IMHO of course :-)
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
>

The problem is, as far as I'm concerned the message came from the list.
Needing to go to the dropdown and select "Reply to all" is just one extra
movement, and it's one I have to make every single time I reply.  In all
honesty, I can't think of a single time that I've wanted to reply to just
the original sender:  that's the point of a mailing list, to have
conversations on it.  I've occasionally been prompted to remember that I
wanted to ask an individual something specific off-list, but it's never
been a direct response to what was posted ON the list.

As to the ability to send to the originator:  I've been on a lot of lists
where the address was munged.  They all included the original sender's
email address in the body, so if I really wanted to send to them, I could.
And the rest of the time (basically always) I didn't have to think about it.

It's basically a practicality thing for me.  On a list where the vast
majority of replies went to the original sender, I'd agree with you.  For
something like this, it's just making me do extra work without providing me
with an extra benefit.

Andy
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Re: [Tutor] [OT] Replies go to individuals, not the list?

[Alan Gauld]

On 20/08/13 13:15, Andy McKenzie wrote:


Yep.  Someone decided it didn't make sense for "reply" to go to the list
that sent the message


Lists never send messages. People do.

So reply goes to the *person* who sent the message.
Which is what mail always does, to modify it for mail
forwarded by a list server makes no sense whatsoever.
And it breaks the ability to send to the originator.

IMHO of course :-)

--
Alan G
Author of the Learn to Program web site
http://www.alan-g.me.uk/

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Re: [Tutor] [OT] Replies go to individuals, not the list?

[Chris “Kwpolska” Warrick]

On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 8:53 PM, Alan Gauld  wrote:
> On 20/08/13 13:15, Andy McKenzie wrote:
>
>> Yep.  Someone decided it didn't make sense for "reply" to go to the list
>> that sent the message
>
>
> Lists never send messages. People do.
>
> So reply goes to the *person* who sent the message.
> Which is what mail always does, to modify it for mail
> forwarded by a list server makes no sense whatsoever.
> And it breaks the ability to send to the originator.

The From: field still contains an e-mail address of a human.  Just
copy-paste it into the To: field of your reply.

And replying to the human instead of the list is almost never what you want.

-- 
Chris “Kwpolska” Warrick 
PGP: 5EAAEA16
stop html mail | always bottom-post | only UTF-8 makes sense
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Re: [Tutor] python tutoring

[Alan Gauld]

On 20/08/13 17:23, leam hall wrote:


You can do well with Alan's on-line pages
(http://www.freenetpages.co.uk/hp/alan.gauld/)


but don't use that site, its prehistoric but locked
so that I can't redirect it. See my sig instead

--
Alan G
Author of the Learn to Program web site
http://www.alan-g.me.uk/

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Re: [Tutor] [OT] Replies go to individuals, not the list?

[leam hall]

Replying to the human, vice the list, is about 99% never what I want. With
a 1% margin of error.  :)

Leam



On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 3:00 PM, Chris “Kwpolska” Warrick <
kwpol...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 8:53 PM, Alan Gauld 
> wrote:
> > On 20/08/13 13:15, Andy McKenzie wrote:
> >
> >> Yep.  Someone decided it didn't make sense for "reply" to go to the list
> >> that sent the message
> >
> >
> > Lists never send messages. People do.
> >
> > So reply goes to the *person* who sent the message.
> > Which is what mail always does, to modify it for mail
> > forwarded by a list server makes no sense whatsoever.
> > And it breaks the ability to send to the originator.
>
> The From: field still contains an e-mail address of a human.  Just
> copy-paste it into the To: field of your reply.
>
> And replying to the human instead of the list is almost never what you
> want.
>
> --
> Chris “Kwpolska” Warrick 
> PGP: 5EAAEA16
> stop html mail | always bottom-post | only UTF-8 makes sense
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Re: [Tutor] I have download python 3.3, then I click the link of Module Docs, but nothing appears

[Jerry Hill]

You don't give much context for your question, so I'm going to guess.
You installed Python 3.3 on windows, and it installed some links in
your start menu.  One of those links is titled "Module Docs", and
clicking on it doesn't do anything.  Is that right?

That seems to be the case for me too, though I'd never clicked on that
link until just now.  I'm not sure what that's supposed to be a
shortcut for.

If you're looking for the Python documentation though, you want the
shortcut titled "Python Manuals".  That will give you a windows help
file with all of the python documentation bundled up in there.  If you
don't care for that format, all of the same information is available
from http://docs.python.org/3/ as well.

-- 
Jerry
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[Tutor] using python with photoshop

[charles le guen]

Hi

I'm running Windows 7 64 bit and I want to manipulate psd photoshop files
using python.

Google searches led me to a few cool
sitessuggesting
I need to use
comtypes  but that looks
like dated technology. for someone working in 64bit windows 7...

Can anyone tell me the best way to manipulate photoshop with python?  Is
the comtypes approach truly the best?

Thanks
Charles
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Re: [Tutor] is the the two style of writting the same?

[Walter Prins]

Hi,

On 20 August 2013 10:20, sikonai sikonai  wrote:

> >>> list=[1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9]
> >>> list[9:0:-2]
> [9, 7, 5, 3]
> >>> list[10:0:-2]
> [9, 7, 5, 3]
>
> I want to know whether they have some difference.
>

For the specific list you show, the 2 expressions yield the same result.
 However this does not mean that this is true of any list.  The reason the
2 expressions return the same result is because the starting index for the
slice operation is effectively capped at 9, due to the list containing only
9 elements, so hence any value above 9 in the first slice parameter is
essentially reset/capped to 9.  For longer lists of course this is not true
so the results are different.  Play around with some longer/other examples
to see this:

Python 2.7.5 (default, May 15 2013, 22:43:36) [MSC v.1500 32 bit (Intel)]
on win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> l = [1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11]  #note the extra elements as compared to
your example
>>> l[9:0]
[]
>>> l[9:0:-2]
[10, 8, 6, 4, 2]
>>> l[10:0:-2]
[11, 9, 7, 5, 3]
>>> l[12:0:-2]
[11, 9, 7, 5, 3]
>>> l[20:0:-2]
[11, 9, 7, 5, 3]
>>>


Walter
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Re: [Tutor] [OT] Replies go to individuals, not the list?

[Brian van den Broek]

On Aug 20, 2013 3:04 PM, "Andy McKenzie"  wrote:
>
> On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 2:53 PM, Alan Gauld 
wrote:
>>
>> On 20/08/13 13:15, Andy McKenzie wrote:
>>
>>> Yep.  Someone decided it didn't make sense for "reply" to go to the list
>>> that sent the message
>>
>>
>> Lists never send messages. People do.
>>
>> So reply goes to the *person* who sent the message.



> The problem is, as far as I'm concerned the message came from the list.
Needing to go to the dropdown and select "Reply to all" is just one extra
movement, and it's one I have to make every single time I reply.  In all
honesty, I can't think of a single time that I've wanted to reply to just
the original sender:  that's the point of a mailing list, to have
conversations on it.  I've occasionally been prompted to remember that I
wanted to ask an individual something specific off-list, but it's never
been a direct response to what was posted ON the list.



> It's basically a practicality thing for me.  On a list where the vast
majority of replies went to the original sender, I'd agree with you.  For
something like this, it's just making me do extra work without providing me
with an extra benefit.

Hi all,

Alan's argument seems compelling, but is principled, thus perhaps
vulnerable to a `practicality beats purity' response.

What tips me against reply to munging is the principle of least damage,
itself eminently practical.

Imagine the non-actual possible world where this list reply munges and in
which I wished to write Andy directly to cast aspersions on Alan's
character and ancestry out of a misguided belief that reply to munging is
right. I hit reply and shortly afterwards realize that I am missing toes.

In the actual world, I might have accidentally sent this solely to Andy out
of inattention. Irksome, but I still have all 7 of my toes.

Powerful software often can and ought allow one to shoot oneself in the
foot. It ought not however be designed so that in one context, doing what
is safe and normal in another context surprisingly points a firearm at your
feet without the accompaniment of klaxons and lights. (And even then …)

Best,

Brian vdB
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Re: [Tutor] [OT] Replies go to individuals, not the list?

[leam hall]

The only question I have is what is compelling about being different than
other lists? Far as I can tell, most reply to the list if you click reply.

It's not something to get religious over; if I reply and don't have time to
make sure it goes to those who might be interested, at least it will go to
the person I'm responding to. They can forward it on if it's important
enough.  :)

Leam


On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 3:47 PM, Brian van den Broek <
brian.van.den.br...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> On Aug 20, 2013 3:04 PM, "Andy McKenzie"  wrote:
> >
> > On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 2:53 PM, Alan Gauld 
> wrote:
> >>
> >> On 20/08/13 13:15, Andy McKenzie wrote:
> >>
> >>> Yep.  Someone decided it didn't make sense for "reply" to go to the
> list
> >>> that sent the message
> >>
> >>
> >> Lists never send messages. People do.
> >>
> >> So reply goes to the *person* who sent the message.
>
> 
>
> > The problem is, as far as I'm concerned the message came from the list.
> Needing to go to the dropdown and select "Reply to all" is just one extra
> movement, and it's one I have to make every single time I reply.  In all
> honesty, I can't think of a single time that I've wanted to reply to just
> the original sender:  that's the point of a mailing list, to have
> conversations on it.  I've occasionally been prompted to remember that I
> wanted to ask an individual something specific off-list, but it's never
> been a direct response to what was posted ON the list.
>
> 
>
> > It's basically a practicality thing for me.  On a list where the vast
> majority of replies went to the original sender, I'd agree with you.  For
> something like this, it's just making me do extra work without providing me
> with an extra benefit.
>
> Hi all,
>
> Alan's argument seems compelling, but is principled, thus perhaps
> vulnerable to a `practicality beats purity' response.
>
> What tips me against reply to munging is the principle of least damage,
> itself eminently practical.
>
> Imagine the non-actual possible world where this list reply munges and in
> which I wished to write Andy directly to cast aspersions on Alan's
> character and ancestry out of a misguided belief that reply to munging is
> right. I hit reply and shortly afterwards realize that I am missing toes.
>
> In the actual world, I might have accidentally sent this solely to Andy
> out of inattention. Irksome, but I still have all 7 of my toes.
>
> Powerful software often can and ought allow one to shoot oneself in the
> foot. It ought not however be designed so that in one context, doing what
> is safe and normal in another context surprisingly points a firearm at your
> feet without the accompaniment of klaxons and lights. (And even then …)
>
> Best,
>
> Brian vdB
>
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>


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Re: [Tutor] using python with photoshop

[Albert-Jan Roskam]

> From: charles le guen 
>To: tutor@python.org 
>Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 9:16 PM
>Subject: [Tutor] using python with photoshop
>
>Hi
>
>I'm running Windows 7 64 bit and I want to manipulate psd photoshop files 
>using python.
>
>Google searches led me to a few cool sites suggesting I need to use comtypes 
>but that looks like dated technology. for someone working in 64bit windows 7...
>
>Can anyone tell me the best way to manipulate photoshop with python?  Is the 
>comtypes approach truly the best?


Photoshop: no idea. But GIMP might be an alternative: 
http://www.gimp.org/docs/python/. Or PIL + psd tools: 
https://pypi.python.org/pypi/psd-tools

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Re: [Tutor] is the the two style of writting the same?

[Prasad, Ramit]

tan Sikonai wrote:
> 
> ?

You should wait at least 24 hours as many people in this mailing list
are around the world and may not see this immediately.

> 
> 2013/8/20 sikonai sikonai 
> >>> list=[1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9]
> >>> list[9:0:-2]
> [9, 7, 5, 3]
> >>> list[10:0:-2]
> [9, 7, 5, 3]
> 
> I want to know whether they have some difference.

You should try and avoid using built-in names like "list" as this shadows 
list function.

Yes, there is a difference. Python slices ignore out of range elements so 
this becomes the last element and elements with a -2 step (meaning traverse 
the list in reverse and select every other element) until you get to the
0th slot.


>>> list[100:0:-2]
[9, 7, 5, 3]


~Ramit



This email is confidential and subject to important disclaimers and conditions 
including on offers for the purchase or sale of securities, accuracy and 
completeness of information, viruses, confidentiality, legal privilege, and 
legal entity disclaimers, available at 
http://www.jpmorgan.com/pages/disclosures/email.  
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Re: [Tutor] [OT] Replies go to individuals, not the list?

[Dave Angel]

leam hall wrote:

> The only question I have is what is compelling about being different than
> other lists? Far as I can tell, most reply to the list if you click reply.
>
> It's not something to get religious over; if I reply and don't have time to
> make sure it goes to those who might be interested, at least it will go to
> the person I'm responding to. They can forward it on if it's important
> enough.  :)
>

Yeah, and top-posting with html mail is similarly taking the easy way
out.  After all, who cares if everyone else has to put up with your bad
habits.

-- 
DaveA


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Re: [Tutor] [OT] Replies go to individuals, not the list?

[Andy McKenzie]

leam hall wrote:

>
> > The only question I have is what is compelling about being different than
> > other lists? Far as I can tell, most reply to the list if you click
> reply.
> >
> > It's not something to get religious over; if I reply and don't have time
> to
> > make sure it goes to those who might be interested, at least it will go
> to
> > the person I'm responding to. They can forward it on if it's important
> > enough.  :)
> >
>
> Yeah, and top-posting with html mail is similarly taking the easy way
> out.  After all, who cares if everyone else has to put up with your bad
> habits.
>

Well, since someone else brought it up... I really prefer top posting.  In
general, I don't WANT to reread every message:  I want to quickly get to
whatever is new.  Top posting, much like the return-address munging
question, is a personal preference.  For me, it runs opposite to what this
list requires.  Clearly whoever set up this list agreed with you.

What REALLY gets to me is the people who try to insist that their way is
objectively RIGHT, and everyone else is practicing bad habits, or polluting
the net, or some other nonsense like that.  The fact is, we just have
different work flow preferences.  You like one thing, I like another.  If
you want to present your view rationally and objectively, or talk about
your preferred layouts, that's fine.  But let's not start saying someone
has "bad habits" because they disagree with you.

Andy
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Re: [Tutor] [OT] Replies go to individuals, not the list?

[Chris Down]

On 2013-08-20 18:40, Andy McKenzie wrote:
> Well, since someone else brought it up... I really prefer top posting.  In
> general, I don't WANT to reread every message:  I want to quickly get to
> whatever is new.

Right, which is why when top posting you should cut to the relevant context.

> What REALLY gets to me is the people who try to insist that their way is
> objectively RIGHT, and everyone else is practicing bad habits, or polluting
> the net, or some other nonsense like that.  The fact is, we just have
> different work flow preferences.  You like one thing, I like another.  If
> you want to present your view rationally and objectively, or talk about
> your preferred layouts, that's fine.  But let's not start saying someone
> has "bad habits" because they disagree with you.

In Gmail (which it appears that you are using) I don't think it really matters,
since it selectively collapses the context anyway. It certainly matters when
reading in a mail client that doesn't collapse quotes (which, in my opinion, is
not something a mail reader should be doing anyway).

I agree this is a personal opinion, but mixing the two in a single thread often
makes message flow completely incomprehensible. I am also in the bottomposting
camp, I'm not very dogmatic about it as long as people don't mix the two in a
single thread. Then it just becomes functionally irritating.


pgpMSR7KnZqbl.pgp
Description: PGP signature
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Re: [Tutor] [OT] Replies go to individuals, not the list?

[Chris Down]

On 2013-08-21 01:01, Chris Down wrote:
> Right, which is why when top posting you should cut to the relevant context.

s/top posting/bottom posting/

I'm interested to know how you can reply and reference multiple parts of a
message clearly when top posting, though. I think that's impossible without
destroying clarity. Bottom posting is just objectively much more intuitive when
replying per-context and not per-message, which is what you want almost all of
the time.


pgpkZPPYGkIok.pgp
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Re: [Tutor] using python with photoshop

[Alan Gauld]

On 20/08/13 20:16, charles le guen wrote:


I'm running Windows 7 64 bit and I want to manipulate psd photoshop
files using python.


Because PSD is a proprietary (but published) format designed for 
Photoshop (although in practice many other tools can open them too)

it is always going to be a slightly clunky process.

However, if you can convert the files into more standard and open 
formats you will have more luck.


That being said I did find this with a simple Google search:

https://pypi.python.org/pypi/psd-tools

Since you don't say what you want to do I don't know if it will help...



suggesting I need to use comtypes


Never heard of comtypes but I have heard of ctypes and COM.
Both are available from Python but imply you are managing the files 
through Photoshop itself. That's usually a bad technique and a last 
resort. The psd-tools approach appears to be based on direct 
manipulation of the files.



 but that looks like
dated technology. for someone working in 64bit windows 7...


COM is still supported and ctypes simply calls whatever APIs Microsoft 
(or Adobe) make available so it is as up to date as the exposed APIs...



--
Alan G
Author of the Learn to Program web site
http://www.alan-g.me.uk/

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Re: [Tutor] is the the two style of writting the same?

[eryksun]

On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 3:31 PM, Walter Prins  wrote:
> On 20 August 2013 10:20, sikonai sikonai  wrote:
>>
>> >>> list=[1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9]
>> >>> list[9:0:-2]
>> [9, 7, 5, 3]
>> >>> list[10:0:-2]
>> [9, 7, 5, 3]
>
> For the specific list you show, the 2 expressions yield the same result.
> However this does not mean that this is true of any list.  The reason the 2
> expressions return the same result is because the starting index for the
> slice operation is effectively capped at 9, due to the list containing only
> 9 elements, so hence any value above 9 in the first slice parameter is
> essentially reset/capped to 9.

The start index is capped at 8:

>>> slice(9, 0, -2).indices(9)
(8, 0, -2)
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Re: [Tutor] [OT] Replies go to individuals, not the list?

[Steven D'Aprano]

On 21/08/13 09:09, Chris Down wrote:

On 2013-08-21 01:01, Chris Down wrote:

Right, which is why when top posting you should cut to the relevant context.


s/top posting/bottom posting/

I'm interested to know how you can reply and reference multiple parts of a
message clearly when top posting, though. I think that's impossible without
destroying clarity. Bottom posting is just objectively much more intuitive when
replying per-context and not per-message, which is what you want almost all of
the time.


Please don't call it "bottom posting". Bottom posting is when you scroll all 
the way past the original message, and append your reply at the bottom. Unless the quoted 
message is very short, as it is here, bottom-posting is worse than top-posting, since it 
has all the disadvantages of top-posting, AND loses the one advantage (namely that you 
can quickly see new content without scrolling).

What you're referring to is inline or interleaved posting, where the reply is 
interleaved between paragraphs of quoted text, thus establishing context, 
rather like a conversation. Since what we're doing here *is* a conversation, 
albeit written rather than spoken, interleaving responses is most natural.

But sometimes, if the communication isn't really a conversation as such, a 
short top-posted reply is best. The rule of thumb I use is this:

- If the poster raises various points that need to be answered individually, 
then I interleave my responses with their comments: Question, Answer, Question, 
Answer sort of thing.

- If there is nowhere I can reasonably trim their comments to establish context, and my 
response is just a general reply rather than specifically responding to specific comments 
(e.g. if my reply is "thanks for your email, I'll consider it for the future" 
sort of thing) then I might top post, leaving their comments below for context.

Whatever posting style is used *clarity of communication* should be the intent. 
Too many people make *ease of firing off an email with the least effort 
possible* their intent, and screw their readers.


--
Steven
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Re: [Tutor] [OT] Replies go to individuals, not the list?

[Steven D'Aprano]

On 21/08/13 08:40, Andy McKenzie wrote:


Well, since someone else brought it up... I really prefer top posting.  In
general, I don't WANT to reread every message:  I want to quickly get to
whatever is new.


You shouldn't have to reread every message. At most, you should have to skim a 
few paragraphs of quoted text to establish context, and then get to the new 
stuff. Like here. Notice I've trimmed all the extraneous conversation, and got 
right down to the bit that matters.

Of course, this is a simple case. Sometimes it's harder to trim, and you end up 
with multiple paragraphs of older text. But even then you don't have to read 
the whole thing, you should be able to skim it, looking for key words or key 
sentences that establish context.

Those with reading difficulties (e.g. the blind or partially sighted, those 
reading in a language they are not fluent in, or simply lousy readers) may have 
trouble skimming text. I'm sympathetic, but they're not actually worse off than 
with top-posting. They can just ignore the quoted text, and hope that the 
response makes sense without context. Just like reading a top-posted message.


[...]

What REALLY gets to me is the people who try to insist that their way is
objectively RIGHT, and everyone else is practicing bad habits, or polluting
the net, or some other nonsense like that.  The fact is, we just have
different work flow preferences.  You like one thing, I like another.  If
you want to present your view rationally and objectively, or talk about
your preferred layouts, that's fine.  But let's not start saying someone
has "bad habits" because they disagree with you.


I've been getting and sending email long enough, in enough different contexts, 
that I think I can objectively say: most email users can't write for shit, and 
posting style doesn't enter into it, they're just poor writers, lazy writers, 
incompetent writers. On a technical forum like this, you're seeing a 
better-than-average set of writers.

I think I can also say that for a wide range of situations, top-posting is 
objectively worse for a number of reasons, but it's not too bad if you have a 
very small number of emails between just two parties, and it certainly does 
have an advantage that it clearly puts the response right up top where it is 
easy to see.

The worst part of top-posting is that the typical email will raise more than 
one question or point that needs answering, but without context, it's hard to 
clearly respond when top-posting. You need a chunk of added verbiage:

You asked a question about map(), the answer is blah blah blah.

You also asked about the exception that you got. The line of code that
failed was blah blah blah, and the reason for the exception was blah...

Also, you mentioned blah blah blah, to which I say, blah...


You simply don't need that extra verbiage when posting interleaved after the 
question, the question can stand for itself! But since most people are lazy 
writers, they don't do either. They arbitrarily pick one question (usually the 
first, or the simplest) and answer it alone.

(I've sent business emails to people where I clearly said "I need the answer to 
these three questions or we cannot proceed with your project", and enumerate the 
questions, and they responded to the *last* question and ignored the other two. Lazy 
*and* stupid, the story of mankind.)

What gets me is the ever-growing cancerous lump of 
quoted-quoted-quoted-quoted-quoted text that grows at the bottom of top-posted 
emails. Email volume grow exponentially in size, e.g.:

First email is 5 lines long.
Reply is 5 lines long + 5 quoted lines, = 10 lines.
Reply to that is 5 lines long, + 10 quoted lines = 15 lines.
Reply to that is 5 lines long, + 15 quoted lines = 20 lines.
Reply to that is 5 lines long, + 20 quoted lines = 25 lines.

After five emails, we have a total of 75 lines of text, of which only 25 lines 
is actual fresh content, a ratio of 33%. The signal-to-noise ratio rapidly 
diminishes. After ten emails, the ratio is 18%, and after 20, just 9%. That's 
worse than interleaved posting with trimming, where the ideal is a 1:1 ratio. 
Real email conversations don't get anywhere near that ideal, but my estimate is 
that a ratio of 50% or better is easily attainable so long as people trim.

In practice, business email is even worse than this: messages tend to be short, 
and those stupid and legally meaningless disclaimers at the bottom of emails 
long. I've seen a TWENTY line disclaimer, quoted FOURTEEN times, in a single 
email:

  >> This email may contain blah blah blah ...
  > This email may contain blah blah blah ...
   This email may contain blah blah blah ...
  >>> This email may contain blah blah blah ...
  >> This email may contain blah blah blah ...
  ...

Seriously, I kid you not.

A few years ago, the company I work for took a customer to court for 
non-payment. During discovery, we had to p

Re: [Tutor] [OT] Replies go to individuals, not the list?

[Dave Angel]

Andy McKenzie wrote:

> (DaveA wrote, but wasn't attributed)
>> Yeah, and top-posting with html mail is similarly taking the easy way
>> out.  After all, who cares if everyone else has to put up with your bad
>> habits.
>>
>
> Well, since someone else brought it up... I really prefer top posting.  In
> general, I don't WANT to reread every message:

You shouldn't have any messages to reread.  If one quotes only what's
relevant, it gives context without extra noise.  The whole notion of
top--posting only makes sense when it's a one-to-one email session,
where you need to keep the entire history of the exchange.  It breaks
down as soon as there are multiple public replies in the same thread, or
when there are multiple points you want to respond to.


> What REALLY gets to me is the people who try to insist that their way is
> objectively RIGHT, and everyone else is practicing bad habits, or polluting
> the net, or some other nonsense like that.  The fact is, we just have
> different work flow preferences.  You like one thing, I like another.  If
> you want to present your view rationally and objectively, or talk about
> your preferred layouts, that's fine.  But let's not start saying someone
> has "bad habits" because they disagree with you.
> leam hall wrote: class="gmail_quote"> class="im">
>
> 
> > The only question I have is what is compelling about being different 
> than
> > other lists? Far as I can tell, most reply to the list if you click 
> reply.
> >
> > It's not something to get religious over; if I reply and don't 
> have time to
> > make sure it goes to those who might be interested, at least it will go 
> to
> > the person I'm responding to. They can forward it on if it's 
> important
> > enough.  :)
> >
> 
  

I notice that you didn't pay any attention to the other bad habit.  Why
should we all pay to download an html message as well as the text
message.

-- 
DaveA


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Re: [Tutor] using python with photoshop

[charles le guen]

Gimp is indeed an option.  I might use nuke as well (it opens psd files).
But I think I figured out how to manipulate photoshop with python...

Seems installing
pywin32
does
the trick.  It's important to install the proper version (I run 6 bit
windows 7 but I had 32 bit version of python installed so the version of
pywin32 needed to be the 32 bit version).

Once pywin32 is installed, this code (below) opens photoshop:

from win32com.client import Dispatch
psApp = Dispatch("Photoshop.Application")

>From here, I'll figure out how to manipulate layers etc as well.

thanks
C



On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 4:33 PM, Albert-Jan Roskam  wrote:

>
>
> 
> > From: charles le guen 
> >To: tutor@python.org
> >Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 9:16 PM
> >Subject: [Tutor] using python with photoshop
> >
> >Hi
> >
> >I'm running Windows 7 64 bit and I want to manipulate psd photoshop files
> using python.
> >
> >Google searches led me to a few cool sites suggesting I need to use
> comtypes but that looks like dated technology. for someone working in 64bit
> windows 7...
> >
> >Can anyone tell me the best way to manipulate photoshop with python?  Is
> the comtypes approach truly the best?
>
>
> Photoshop: no idea. But GIMP might be an alternative:
> http://www.gimp.org/docs/python/. Or PIL + psd tools:
> https://pypi.python.org/pypi/psd-tools
>
>
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[Tutor] Runestone Python Course

[Jim Mooney]

http://interactivepython.org

Since there has been some mention of courses lately, I think this has
become the best online Python course: "How to Think Like a Computer
Scientist." It has an interactive Online Interpreter, where you can
run the examples, or change things and experiment with new code (and
even save it). This is rather like W3 Schools but much more
convenient, since there is a new interpreter for every small segment,
and you aren't flipping around like you are at W3 Schools. It also has
a cleaner and more vivid look. There are simple quizzes, videos, and
CodeLens, which is something like a debugger stepthrough, where you
can activate your code line by line, and watch data and results.

Minor drawback: Codelens just steps through code the instructors have
written, for illustrative purposes. You can't write your own for the
debugger simulation.

However, you Can write anything in the Online Interpreter. The only
drawback there is not All python standard modules have been
implemented. (You can import math, for instance, but not some of the
more obscure modules. But as they say, by the time you get good enough
to use obscure modules, you'll have your own environment ;')  However,
the Online Interpreter can handle anything presented in the course,
and it's a good course. The Interpreter is more like an editor than
the standard shell, since you run a program or snippet rather than
immediate interpretation, and you must print() to see a value. You
also don't have those anachronistic >>> symbols.

If anyone looked at this a few months ago, it was in development and
there were a few bugs I wrote them about, but everything works great
now. It starts with the basics, but there's no harm in going over them
again, or at least skimming the definitions, even if you know them.
I've found that when you re-read, you discover stuff you could swear
wasn't there the first time, as if the author snuck in your house and
added to the material ;')

There is also a more advanced course on Algorithms and Data Structures
on the page linked above, if you're already surefooted about the
basics.

-- 
Jim

More and more, science is showing that animals, even "simple" ones,
have awareness and feelings. There is no hard divide, as the
rape-the-earth crowd would have us believe..
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Re: [Tutor] is the the two style of writting the same?

[Steven D'Aprano]

On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 05:20:23PM +0800, sikonai sikonai wrote:
> >>> list=[1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9]
> >>> list[9:0:-2]
> [9, 7, 5, 3]
> >>> list[10:0:-2]
> [9, 7, 5, 3]
> 
> I want to know whether they have some difference.

Consider:

2+2
2*2
2**2

All three give the same result, 4, and yet they are different. You can 
see that they are different, because if you change the numbers from 2 to 
something else, the results will no longer be the same:

3+3
3*3
3**3

No longer equal! This proves that + * and ** are not the same thing.

Go back to your example:

L = [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9]

It turns out that L[9:0:-2] happens to be the same as L[10:0:-2], but 
that is only because the list only has 9 items. But if you do this:

L = [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15]

for example, and then compare L[9:0:-2] and L[10:0:-2], you will see 
they are quite different:

py> L = [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15]
py> L[9:0:-2]
[10, 8, 6, 4, 2]
py> L[10:0:-2]
[11, 9, 7, 5, 3]



-- 
Steven
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