Re: [Tutor] threading mind set
bob gailer wrote: On 5/12/2012 8:22 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: By the way, in future, please don't decorate your code with stars: I think you got stars because the code was posted in HTML and bolded. Plain text readers add the * to show emphasis. I think you have it the other way around: if you add asterisks around text, some plain text readers hide the * and bold the text. At least, I've never seen anything which does it the other way around. (Possibly until now.) In any case, I'm using Thunderbird, and it does NOT show stars around text unless they are already there. When I look at the raw email source, I can see the asterisks there. Perhaps Carlo's mail client is trying to be helpful, and failing miserably. While converting HTML tags into simple markup is a nice thing to do for plain text, it plays havoc with code. -- Steven ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Auto-response for your message to the "Tutor" mailing list
On 13/05/12 07:21, Steven D'Aprano wrote: Devin Jeanpierre wrote: This is the third time I've received a message "for those of you new to the Tutor list". When does it stop? I think these come when the listserver gets a message from a mailbox it doesn't recognise. It puts the mails in the moderation queue and sends the message(it used to send one to the moderators too but seems to have stopped doing that! :-( So if you are not subscribed to the list, or are subscribed but using a different mail address then you get one of these messages. I think But the settings of the sever are cloaked in mystery! :-) And that reminds me that I haven't checked the mod queue for over a week - oops! -- Alan G Author of the Learn to Program web site http://www.alan-g.me.uk/ ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] syntax error
Devin Jeanpierre wrote: On Sat, May 12, 2012 at 10:29 PM, bob gailer wrote: oh - and always provide a specific meaningful subject My client has no idea what thread this post came from. Is it supposed to? What's your client? I'm using Thunderbird, and it too doesn't have any idea. I see that Bob's email does have an In-Reply-To header: In-Reply-To: and if I look at the email which started this thread, Keitaro Kaoru's email with no subject line, I see it has the same message ID: Message-ID: so my guess is that Thunderbird is just stupid. -- Steven ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Auto-response for your message to the "Tutor" mailing list
On 05/13/2012 04:17 AM, Alan Gauld wrote: > On 13/05/12 07:21, Steven D'Aprano wrote: >> Devin Jeanpierre wrote: >>> This is the third time I've received a message "for those of you new >>> to the Tutor list". When does it stop? > > I think these come when the listserver gets a message from a mailbox > it doesn't recognise. It puts the mails in the moderation queue and > sends the message(it used to send one to the moderators too but seems > to have stopped doing that! :-( > > So if you are not subscribed to the list, or are subscribed but using > a different mail address then you get one of these messages. > > I think But the settings of the sever are cloaked in mystery! :-) > > And that reminds me that I haven't checked the mod queue for over a > week - oops! > I also seem to get one of these when I haven't posted for a couple of weeks. I never tried to calibrate it, but that's what it seems to be. Perhaps it's keeping a cache of recent posters, and once I'm flushed from the cache, it considers me new. This is different from the case where I post from a different address. In that case, I get a mail saying that only subscribers can post. Or something like that. -- DaveA ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] syntax error
On 05/13/2012 05:44 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > Devin Jeanpierre wrote: >> On Sat, May 12, 2012 at 10:29 PM, bob gailer wrote: >>> oh - and always provide a specific meaningful subject >> >> My client has no idea what thread this post came from. >> >> Is it supposed to? > > > What's your client? I'm using Thunderbird, and it too doesn't have any > idea. > > I see that Bob's email does have an In-Reply-To header: > > In-Reply-To: > > > and if I look at the email which started this thread, Keitaro Kaoru's > email with no subject line, I see it has the same message ID: > > Message-ID: > > > > so my guess is that Thunderbird is just stupid. > > But my copy of Thunderbird (12.0.1, running on Linux) recognized these as being the same thread as Keitaro Kaoru's message, and combined them properly. -- DaveA ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] syntax error
On Sun, May 13, 2012 at 5:44 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > Devin Jeanpierre wrote: >> >> On Sat, May 12, 2012 at 10:29 PM, bob gailer wrote: >>> >>> oh - and always provide a specific meaningful subject >> >> >> My client has no idea what thread this post came from. >> >> Is it supposed to? > > > > What's your client? I'm using Thunderbird, and it too doesn't have any idea. The gmail web interface. > I see that Bob's email does have an In-Reply-To header: > > In-Reply-To: > > > and if I look at the email which started this thread, Keitaro Kaoru's email > with no subject line, I see it has the same message ID: > > Message-ID: > > > > so my guess is that Thunderbird is just stupid. Welp. Not much I can do here. I should probably switch to a desktop client at some point. Thanks for the detective work. -- Devin ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] syntax error
On 13/05/12 10:44, Steven D'Aprano wrote: and if I look at the email which started this thread, Keitaro Kaoru's email with no subject line, I see it has the same message ID: Message-ID: so my guess is that Thunderbird is just stupid. Like Dave I am on Thunderbird 12 and it is threading the messages just fine... But I never noticed a problem with T/Bird 3.1 either. -- Alan G Author of the Learn to Program web site http://www.alan-g.me.uk/ ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] threading mind set
Steven, On Sun, 2012-05-13 at 10:22 +1000, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > carlo locci wrote: > > Hello All, > > I've started to study python a couple of month ago(and I truly love it :)), > > however I'm having some problems understanding how to modify a sequential > > script and make it multithreaded (I think it's because I'm not used to > > think in that way), > > No, that's because multithreading and parallel processing is hard. Shared memory multithreading may be hard due to locks, semaphores, monitors, etc., but concurrency and parallelism need not be hard. Using processes and message passing, using dataflow, actors or CSP, parallelism and concurrency is far more straightforward. Not easy, agreed, but then programming isn't easy. > > as well as when it's best to use it(some say that > > because of the GIL I won't get any real benefit from threading my script). > > That depends on what your script does. > > In a nutshell, if your program is limited by CPU processing, then using > threads in Python won't help. (There are other things you can do instead, > such > as launching new Python processes.) The GIL in Python is a bad thing for parallelism. Using the multiprocessing package or concurrent.futures gets over the problem. Well sort of, these processes are a bit heavyweight compared to what can be achieved on the JVM or with Erlang. > If your program is limited by disk or network I/O, then there is a > possibility > you can speed it up with threads. Or better still use an event based system, cf Twisted. [...] > -- Russel. = Dr Russel Winder t: +44 20 7585 2200 voip: sip:russel.win...@ekiga.net 41 Buckmaster Roadm: +44 7770 465 077 xmpp: rus...@winder.org.uk London SW11 1EN, UK w: www.russel.org.uk skype: russel_winder signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
[Tutor] How to start developing a website
I have a idea (Website) which I want to develop using Django (Still learning it!). Currently I am following DjangoBook (reading DataBase..). As I am really new to webframe works and Web development, I have a real dumb question which I don't really figure out. # Question: Broadly speaking my website takes a RSS/Atom feed and try to display dynamic content on its page. So, with what ever I know about django until now, all I can say that my project can handle creating dynamic content with django but I don't figure out how to really "design" it. I mean how to "design the UI part.. ".. One way of doing is to explicitly edit the Django's HTML pages using HTML, CSS, JavaScript from scratch. But I only know little HTML (I cannot do the design with what I know). So, how can I achieve this thing.. I thought of using Adobe's Dreamweaver or any equivalent open source thing but their generated HTML code can't be easily edited for "django" template designing.. Can anyone explain me on it.. Thanks a lot Surya ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] How to start developing a website
On 5/13/2012 8:08 AM Surya K said... I have a idea (Website) which I want to develop using Django (Still learning it!). Currently I am following DjangoBook (reading DataBase..). As I am really new to webframe works and Web development, I have a real dumb question which I don't really figure out. # Question: Broadly speaking my website takes a RSS/Atom feed and try to display dynamic content on its page. Have you already found http://wiki.python.org/moin/RssLibraries ? So, with what ever I know about django until now, all I can say that my project can handle creating dynamic content with django but I don't figure out how to really "design" it. I mean how to "design the UI part.. ".. One way of doing is to explicitly edit the Django's HTML pages using HTML, CSS, JavaScript from scratch. But I only know little HTML (I cannot do the design with what I know). So, how can I achieve this thing.. Take a look at http://www.djangosites.org/s/patternry-com/ I thought of using Adobe's Dreamweaver or any equivalent open source thing but their generated HTML code can't be easily edited for "django" template designing.. Can anyone explain me on it.. The folks at Django can -- see https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/faq/help/ for django resources. HTH, Emile ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] How to start developing a website
On Sun, May 13, 2012 at 11:40 AM, Emile van Sebille wrote: > On 5/13/2012 8:08 AM Surya K said... > >> I have a idea (Website) which I want to develop using Django (Still >> learning it!). Currently I am following DjangoBook (reading DataBase..). >> >> As I am really new to webframe works and Web development, I have a real >> dumb question which I don't really figure out. >> >> # Question: >> >> Broadly speaking my website takes a RSS/Atom feed and try to display >> dynamic content on its page. > > > Have you already found http://wiki.python.org/moin/RssLibraries ? > > >> So, with what ever I know about django >> until now, all I can say that my project can handle creating dynamic >> content with django but I don't figure out how to really "design" it. I >> mean how to "design the UI part.. ".. >> >> One way of doing is to explicitly edit the Django's HTML pages using >> HTML, CSS, JavaScript from scratch. But I only know little HTML (I >> cannot do the design with what I know). >> >> So, how can I achieve this thing.. > > > Take a look at http://www.djangosites.org/s/patternry-com/ > > >> >> I thought of using Adobe's Dreamweaver or any equivalent open source >> thing but their generated HTML code can't be easily edited for "django" >> template designing.. >> >> >> Can anyone explain me on it.. > > > The folks at Django can -- see > https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/faq/help/ for django resources. > > HTH, > > Emile > > ___ > Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org > To unsubscribe or change subscription options: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor I haven't tried this yet, but I have heard good things about this site: http://twitter.github.com/bootstrap/ There is a tutorial here http://webdesign.tutsplus.com/tutorials/htmlcss-tutorials/stepping-out-with-bootstrap-from-twitter/ Basically some people from twitter and elsewhere have put together a package that can be used with django or elsewhere to make designing html and css for webpages. Since you are new to django, I would recommend you just get the most basic site going. You will stumble and learn a lot along the way. After that you can dress it up -- Joel Goldstick ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
[Tutor] hello~
hey. Austin here for some reason this command. all it does it produces the
error message at the bottom.. itll say my name and the persons name im
trying to send the message to but thats it. heres the command.
mgr.addCommand("tell", 1, "send a person a message to the rooms he is in",
tell, unlisted = True)
def tell(mgr, croom, user, msg, args):
name = args.lower().split(" ")[0]
if not name.isalnum(): return Html("Non-alphanumeric name,
seriously?")
data = shared_db.get("seen:" + name)
if data == None:
return Html("I have no records about this user.")
data = json.loads(data)
for room in mgr.rooms:
if data[1] == "join":
mgr.sendObject(target, Html("%s, %s wants to tell you %s",
name.title, user.name.title$
else:
return Error("%s I couldn't find %s
anywhere", user.name.title(), name.title())
i built it off these 2 commands
def broadcast(mgr, croom, user, msg, args):
for room in mgr.rooms:
mgr.sendObject(room, Html("Broadcast by %s:%s",
user.name, args))
def seen(mgr, room, user, msg, args):
name = args.lower().split(" ")[0]
if not name.isalnum(): return Html("Non-alphanumeric name, seriously?")
data = shared_db.get("seen:" + name)
if data == None:
return Html("I have no records about this user.")
data = json.loads(data)
ifdata[1] == "join":
return Html("Last seen %s join %s, %s ago.", name,
data[0], tdelta(data[2]))
elif data[1] == "leave":
return Html("Last seen %s leave %s, %s ago.", name,
data[0], tdelta(data[2]))
elif data[1] == "message":
return Html("Last seen %s message in %s, %s ago:
\"%s\"", name, data[0], tdelta(data[2]), data[3])
return Html("I have no records about this user.")
as you can see i only use some of the command. it doesnt produce an error
message tho.. just repeats "return Error("%s I couldn't find %s
anywhere", user.name.title(), name.title())"
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Re: [Tutor] hello~
On 14/05/2012 00:04, Keitaro Kaoru wrote:
hey. Austin here for some reason this command. all it does it produces the
error message at the bottom.. itll say my name and the persons name im
trying to send the message to but thats it. heres the command.
mgr.addCommand("tell", 1, "send a person a message to the rooms he is in",
tell, unlisted = True)
def tell(mgr, croom, user, msg, args):
name = args.lower().split(" ")[0]
if not name.isalnum(): return Html("Non-alphanumeric name,
seriously?")
data = shared_db.get("seen:" + name)
if data == None:
return Html("I have no records about this user.")
data = json.loads(data)
for room in mgr.rooms:
if data[1] == "join":
mgr.sendObject(target, Html("%s,%s wants to tell you%s",
name.title, user.name.title$
else:
return Error("%s I couldn't find %s
anywhere", user.name.title(), name.title())
i built it off these 2 commands
def broadcast(mgr, croom, user, msg, args):
for room in mgr.rooms:
mgr.sendObject(room, Html("Broadcast by%s:%s",
user.name, args))
def seen(mgr, room, user, msg, args):
name = args.lower().split(" ")[0]
if not name.isalnum(): return Html("Non-alphanumeric name, seriously?")
data = shared_db.get("seen:" + name)
if data == None:
return Html("I have no records about this user.")
data = json.loads(data)
ifdata[1] == "join":
return Html("Last seen%s join%s,%s ago.", name,
data[0], tdelta(data[2]))
elif data[1] == "leave":
return Html("Last seen%s leave%s,%s ago.", name,
data[0], tdelta(data[2]))
elif data[1] == "message":
return Html("Last seen%s message in%s,%s ago:
\"%s\"", name, data[0], tdelta(data[2]), data[3])
return Html("I have no records about this user.")
as you can see i only use some of the command. it doesnt produce an error
message tho.. just repeats "return Error("%s I couldn't find %s
anywhere", user.name.title(), name.title())"
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Sorry but it's unreadable to me. Have you sent this in HTML when you
should have sent in plain text?
--
Cheers.
Mark Lawrence.
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[Tutor] sorry seems like it was sent in html
is that better? not html... ? hey. Austin here for some reason this
command. all it does it produces the
error message at the bottom.. itll say my name and the persons name im
trying to send the message to but thats it. heres the command.
mgr.addCommand("tell", 1, "send a person a message to the rooms he is in",
tell, unlisted = True)
def tell(mgr, croom, user, msg, args):
name = args.lower().split(" ")[0]
if not name.isalnum(): return Html("Non-alphanumeric name,
seriously?")
data = shared_db.get("seen:" + name)
if data == None:
return Html("I have no records about this user.")
data = json.loads(data)
for room in mgr.rooms:
if data[1] == "join":
mgr.sendObject(target, Html("%s,%s wants to tell you%s",
name.title, user.name.title$
else:
return Error("%s I couldn't find %s
anywhere", user.name.title(), name.title())
i built it off these 2 commands
def broadcast(mgr, croom, user, msg, args):
for room in mgr.rooms:
mgr.sendObject(room, Html("Broadcast by%s:%s",
user.name, args))
def seen(mgr, room, user, msg, args):
name = args.lower().split(" ")[0]
if not name.isalnum(): return Html("Non-alphanumeric name, seriously?")
data = shared_db.get("seen:" + name)
if data == None:
return Html("I have no records about this user.")
data = json.loads(data)
ifdata[1] == "join":
return Html("Last seen%s join%s,%s ago.", name,
data[0], tdelta(data[2]))
elif data[1] == "leave":
return Html("Last seen%s leave%s,%s ago.", name,
data[0], tdelta(data[2]))
elif data[1] == "message":
return Html("Last seen%s message in%s,%s ago:
\"%s\"", name, data[0], tdelta(data[2]), data[3])
return Html("I have no records about this user.")
as you can see i only use some of the command. it doesnt produce an error
message tho.. just repeats "return Error("%s I couldn't find %s
anywhere", user.name.title(), name.title())"
--
~Keitaro Kaoru-Sama~
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Re: [Tutor] sorry seems like it was sent in html
On 14/05/2012 00:22, Keitaro Kaoru wrote:
is that better? not html... ? hey. Austin here for some reason this
command. all it does it produces the
error message at the bottom.. itll say my name and the persons name im
trying to send the message to but thats it. heres the command.
mgr.addCommand("tell", 1, "send a person a message to the rooms he is in",
tell, unlisted = True)
mgr is wahh ?
def tell(mgr, croom, user, msg, args):
name = args.lower().split(" ")[0]
if not name.isalnum(): return Html("Non-alphanumeric name,
seriously?")
data = shared_db.get("seen:" + name)
if data == None:
return Html("I have no records about this user.")
data = json.loads(data)
for room in mgr.rooms:
if data[1] == "join":
mgr.sendObject(target, Html("%s,%s wants to tell you%s",
name.title, user.name.title$
else:
return Error("%s I couldn't find %s
anywhere", user.name.title(), name.title())
i built it off these 2 commands
def broadcast(mgr, croom, user, msg, args):
for room in mgr.rooms:
mgr.sendObject(room, Html("Broadcast by%s:%s",
user.name, args))
def seen(mgr, room, user, msg, args):
name = args.lower().split(" ")[0]
if not name.isalnum(): return Html("Non-alphanumeric name, seriously?")
data = shared_db.get("seen:" + name)
if data == None:
return Html("I have no records about this user.")
data = json.loads(data)
ifdata[1] == "join":
return Html("Last seen%s join%s,%s ago.", name,
data[0], tdelta(data[2]))
elif data[1] == "leave":
return Html("Last seen%s leave%s,%s ago.", name,
data[0], tdelta(data[2]))
elif data[1] == "message":
return Html("Last seen%s message in%s,%s ago:
\"%s\"", name, data[0], tdelta(data[2]), data[3])
return Html("I have no records about this user.")
as you can see i only use some of the command. it doesnt produce an error
message tho.. just repeats "return Error("%s I couldn't find %s
anywhere", user.name.title(), name.title())"
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No :( Please cut and past the exact code that you're using and the
exception that you're getting, without that that it's impossible for us
to help you.
--
Cheers.
Mark Lawrence.
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Re: [Tutor] threading mind set
Russel Winder wrote: Steven, On Sun, 2012-05-13 at 10:22 +1000, Steven D'Aprano wrote: carlo locci wrote: Hello All, I've started to study python a couple of month ago(and I truly love it :)), however I'm having some problems understanding how to modify a sequential script and make it multithreaded (I think it's because I'm not used to think in that way), No, that's because multithreading and parallel processing is hard. Shared memory multithreading may be hard due to locks, semaphores, monitors, etc., but concurrency and parallelism need not be hard. No hard compared to what? Using processes and message passing, using dataflow, actors or CSP, parallelism and concurrency is far more straightforward. Not easy, agreed, but then programming isn't easy. My argument is that once you move beyond the one-operation-after-another programming model, almost any parallel processing problem is harder than the equivalent sequential version, inherently due to the parallelism. Except perhaps for "embarrassingly parallel" problems, parallelism adds complexity even if your framework abstracts away most of the tedious detail like semaphores. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embarrassingly_parallel Once you move beyond sequential execution, you have to think about issues that don't apply to sequential programs: how to divide the task up between processes/threads/actors/whatever, how to manage their synchronization, resource starvation (e.g. deadlocks, livelocks), etc. We have linear minds and it doesn't take that many real-time parallel tasks to overwhelm the human brain. I'm not saying that people can't reason in parallel, because we clearly can and do, but it's inherently harder than sequential reasoning. The GIL in Python is a bad thing for parallelism. Using the multiprocessing package or concurrent.futures gets over the problem. Well sort of, these processes are a bit heavyweight compared to what can be achieved on the JVM or with Erlang. Python doesn't have a GIL. Some Python implementations do, most obviously CPython, the reference implementation. But Jython and IronPython don't. If the GIL is a problem for your program, consider running it on Jython or IronPython. -- Steven ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] threading mind set
On Sun, May 13, 2012 at 8:31 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: >> Using processes and message passing, using dataflow, actors or CSP, >> parallelism and concurrency is far more straightforward. Not easy, >> agreed, but then programming isn't easy. > > My argument is that once you move beyond the one-operation-after-another > programming model, almost any parallel processing problem is harder than the > equivalent sequential version, inherently due to the parallelism. Except > perhaps for "embarrassingly parallel" problems, parallelism adds complexity > even if your framework abstracts away most of the tedious detail like > semaphores. If you agree that embarrassingly parallel multithreaded frameworks are easy, what do you think of dataflow programming? It is exactly the same, except that you can have multiple tasks, where one task depends on the output of a previous task. It shares the property that it makes no difference in what order things are executed (or sequential vs parallel), so long as the data dependencies are respected -- so it's another case where you don't actually have to think in a non-sequential manner. (Rather, think in a "vectorized" per-work-item manner.) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dataflow_programming It should be clear that not all ways of programming multithreaded code are equal, and some are easier than others. In particular, having mutable state shared between two concurrently-executing procedures is phenomenally hard, and when it's avoided things become simpler. -- Devin ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] sorry seems like it was sent in html
On 05/13/2012 07:22 PM, Keitaro Kaoru wrote:
> is that better? not html... ?
Your message is still html. The following section of code shows no
indentation, so is very hard to interpret.
>
> def seen(mgr, room, user, msg, args):
> name = args.lower().split(" ")[0]
> if not name.isalnum(): return Html("Non-alphanumeric name, seriously?")
> data = shared_db.get("seen:" + name)
> if data == None:
> return Html("I have no records about this user.")
> data = json.loads(data)
> ifdata[1] == "join":
> return Html("Last seen%s join%s,%s ago.", name,
> data[0], tdelta(data[2]))
> elif data[1] == "leave":
> return Html("Last seen%s leave%s,%s ago.", name,
> data[0], tdelta(data[2]))
> elif data[1] == "message":
> return Html("Last seen%s message in%s,%s ago:
> \"%s\"", name, data[0], tdelta(data[2]), data[3])
> return Html("I have no records about this user.")
>
> as you can see i only use some of the command. it doesnt produce an error
> message tho.. just repeats "return Error("%s I couldn't find %s
> anywhere", user.name.title(), name.title())"
>
>
The following excerpt will show some of the html you sent:
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
is that better? not html... ? hey. Austin here for some reason this co=
mmand. all it does it produces theerror message at the bottom.. =
itll say my name and the persons name imtrying to send the messa=
ge to but thats it. heres the command.=A0
mgr.addCommand("tell", 1, "send a person=
a message to the rooms he is in",tell, unlisted =3D True)<=
In addition you keep starting new threads. Use Reply-all to keep related
messages together, and don't change the subject line if it's supposed to be
part of the same thread.
I can't tell what this message's context is. You start it with "hey Austin"
but I don't see any other messages from an Austin, except about a year ago from
an Austin Rodgers.
I guess I need to back off. You don't list your imports, so people can only
guess. But clearly you're using some libraries I'm not familiar with.
Ask a clearer question, and somebody can probably help.
--
DaveA
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Re: [Tutor] hello~
On Mon, 2012-05-14 at 00:19 +0100, Mark Lawrence wrote: [...] > Sorry but it's unreadable to me. Have you sent this in HTML when you > should have sent in plain text? I think it is just line wrapping, email still is supposed to have no lines greater that 78 characters (RFC 2822) and some email clients enforce this on sending by amending what the author thought they sent. -- Russel. = Dr Russel Winder t: +44 20 7585 2200 voip: sip:russel.win...@ekiga.net 41 Buckmaster Roadm: +44 7770 465 077 xmpp: rus...@winder.org.uk London SW11 1EN, UK w: www.russel.org.uk skype: russel_winder signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] threading mind set
On Mon, 2012-05-14 at 10:31 +1000, Steven D'Aprano wrote: [...] > No hard compared to what? Compared to sequential programming. [...] > My argument is that once you move beyond the one-operation-after-another > programming model, almost any parallel processing problem is harder than the > equivalent sequential version, inherently due to the parallelism. Except > perhaps for "embarrassingly parallel" problems, parallelism adds complexity > even if your framework abstracts away most of the tedious detail like > semaphores. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embarrassingly_parallel > > Once you move beyond sequential execution, you have to think about issues > that > don't apply to sequential programs: how to divide the task up between > processes/threads/actors/whatever, how to manage their synchronization, > resource starvation (e.g. deadlocks, livelocks), etc. Actor systems, dataflow systems and CSP (Communicating Sequential Processes), do not guarantee lack of deadlock or livelock, but the whole "processes communicating by passing messages not by sharing data" make it hugely easier to reason about what is happening. Moreover if like with CSP, your actors or dataflow systems enforce sequential actors/operators then it gets even better. The secret to parallel processing (in general, there are always exception/corner cases) is to write sequential bits that then communicate using queues or channels. No semaphores. No locks. No monitors. These are tools for operating systems folk and for folk creating actor, dataflow and CSP queues and channels. > We have linear minds and it doesn't take that many real-time parallel tasks > to > overwhelm the human brain. I'm not saying that people can't reason in > parallel, because we clearly can and do, but it's inherently harder than > sequential reasoning. I think if you delve into the psychology of it, our minds are far from linear. Certainly at the electro-chemical level the brain is a massively parallel machine. Over the last 50 years, we have enshrined single processor, single memory into our entire thinking about computing and programming. Our education systems enforce sequential programming for all but the final parallel programming option. The main reason for parallel programming being labelled hard is that we have the wrong tools for reasoning about it. This is the beauty of the 1960s/1970s models of actors, dataflow and CSP, you deconstruct the problem into small bits each of which are sequential and comprehensible, then the overall behaviour of the system is an emergent property of the interaction between these small subsystems. Instead of trying to reason about all the communications systems wide, we just worry about what happens with a small subsystem. The hard part is the decomposition. But then the hard part of software has always been the algorithm. You highlight "embarrassingly parallel" which is the simplest decomposition possible, straight scatter/gather, aka map/reduce. More often that not this is handled by a façade such as "parallel reduce". It is perhaps worth noting that "Big Data" is moving to dataflow processing in a "Big Way" :-) Data mining and the like has been revolutionized by changing it's perception of algorithm and how to decompose problems. [...] > Python doesn't have a GIL. Some Python implementations do, most obviously > CPython, the reference implementation. But Jython and IronPython don't. If > the > GIL is a problem for your program, consider running it on Jython or > IronPython. It is true that Python doesn't have a GIL, thanks for the correction. CPython and (until recently) PyPy have a GIL. The PyPy folk are experimenting with software transactional memory (STM) in the interpreter to be able to remove the GIL. To date things are looking very positive. PyPy will rock :-) Although Guido had said (EuroPython 2010) he is happy to continue with the GIL in CPython, there are subversive elements (notable the PyPy folk) who are trying to show that STM will work with CPython as well. Jython is sadly lagging behind in terms of versions of Python supported and is increasingly becoming irrelevant -- unless someone does something soon. Groovy, JRuby and Clojure are the dynamic languages of choice on the JVM. IronPython is an interesting option except that there is all the FUD about use of the CLR and having to buy extortion^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H licencing money to Microsoft. Also Microsoft ceasing to fund IronPython (and IronRuby) is a clear indicator that Microsoft have no intention of supporting use of Python on CLR. Thus it could end up in the same state as Jython. -- Russel. = Dr Russel Winder t: +44 20 7585 2200 voip: sip:russel.win...@ekiga.net 41 Buckmaster Roadm: +44 7770 465 077 xmpp: rus...@winder.org.uk London SW11 1EN, UK w: www.russel.org.uk skype: russel_winder signature.asc Description: This is a digita
