Re: [Tutor] longest common substring
On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 5:49 AM, Andreas Perstinger wrote: > First, just a little rant :-) > It doesn't help to randomly change some lines or introduce some new concepts > you don't understand yet and then hope to get the right result. Your chances > are very small that this will be succesful. > You should try to understand some basic concepts first and build on them. > From your postings the last weeks and especially from today I have the > impression that you still don't understand how fundamental programming > concepts work: for-loops, differences between data types (strings, lists, > sets, ...) > Honestly, have you already read any programming tutorial? (You'll find a big > list at http://wiki.python.org/moin/BeginnersGuide/NonProgrammers )? At the > moment it looks like you are just copying some code snippets from different > places and then you hopelessly try to modify them to suit your needs. IMHO > the problems you want to solve are a little too big for you right now. > > Nevertheless, here are some comments: Thanks, Those are very valuable comments. Since I read your post till the following hours, my mind was haunted by what you pointed out. The reflection went far away. I had/have a VERY BAD HABIT in learning and doing things. My father used to say I was the person did not know how to walk, but started to run. Later I realized in my life, such as I barely read a manual/usage/map, but started messing things up. (I did destory something I newly bought without spending 2 mins reading the usage, I could not forget because it's expensive, haha ...). In the past, for difficulty questions I could do pretty not bad, but for basic concepts or step by step detailed things I failed more than once. But also very honestly answering, that I did try to read some books, one is dive into python, another is learning python the hard way. and now I have programming python by Mark Lutz, and another python book on bedside. The mainly problems was that I felt nothing when I just read for reading. forget so easily what I read. ( Now I am a little worried, the bad habit I have had will affect me go far away or build something serious. Sigh ... ) In the past hours, I tried to read the basic concepts, but get lost (not lost, just mind becomes empty and inactive) in minutes. Thanks again for your pointing out. I will remind myself in future. > >> Based on former advice, I made a correction/modification on the belowba >> code. >> >> 1] the set and subgroup does not work, here I wish to put all the >> subgroup in a big set, the set like > > That's a good idea, but you don't use the set correctly. > >> subgroups=[] >> subgroup=[] >> def LongestCommonSubstring(S1, S2): > > I think it's better to move "subgroups" and "subgroup" into the function. > (I've noticed that in most of your scripts you are using a lot of global > variables. IMHO that's not the best programming style. Do you know what > "global/local variables", "namespace", "scope" mean?) > > You are defining "subgroups" as an empty list, but later you want to use it > as a set. Thus, you should define it as an empty set: > > subgroups = set() > > You are also defining "subgroup" as an empty list, but later you assign a > slice of "S1" to it. Since "S1" is a string, the slice is also a string. > Therefore: > > subgroup = "" > >> M = [[0]*(1+len(S2)) for i in xrange(1+len(S1))] > > Peter told you already why "xrange" doesn't work in Python 3. But instead of > using an alias like > > xrange = range > > IMHO it's better to change it in the code directly. > >> longest, x_longest = 0, 0 >> for x in xrange(1,1+len(S1)): >> for y in xrange(1,1+len(S2)): >> if S1[x-1] == S2[y-1]: >> M[x][y] = M[x-1][y-1]+1 >> if M[x][y]> longest: >> longest = M[x][y] >> x_longest = x >> if longest>= 3: >> subgroup=S1[x_longest-longest:x_longest] >> subgroups=set([subgroup]) > > Here you overwrite in the first iteration your original empty list > "subgroups" with the set of the list which contains the string "subgroup" as > its only element. Do you really understand this line? > And in all the following iterations you are overwriting this one-element set > with another one-element set (the next "subgroup"). > If you want to add an element to an existing set instead of replacing it, > you have to use the "add()"-method for adding an element to a set: > > subgroups.add(subgroup) > > This will add the string "subgroup" as a new element to the set "subgroups". > >> print(subgroups) >> else: >> M[x][y] = 0 >> >> return S1[x_longest-longest:x_longest] > > Here you probably want to return the set "subgroups": > > return subgroups I will return to this parts later. Based on your advice, I updated the code to below one (which is partially work); #!/usr/bin/python3 impo
Re: [Tutor] longest common substring
Sorry I finished last email in two different time,
while:
> INFILEEXT=".doc"
>
>
> def CommonSublist(L1, L2):
> sublist=[]
> sublists=[]
> result=[]
> M = [[0]*(1+len(L2)) for i in range(1+len(L1))]
> longest, x_longest = 0, 0
> for x in range(1,1+len(L1)):
> for y in range(1,1+len(L2)):
> if L1[x-1] == L2[y-1]:
> M[x][y] = M[x-1][y-1]+1
> if M[x][y] > longest:
> longest = M[x][y]
> x_longest = x
> if longest >= 2:
> sublist=L1[x_longest-longest:x_longest]
> if sublist not in sublists:
> sublists.append(sublist)
>
>
> else:
> M[x][y] = 0
>
> return sublists
>
>
>
> if __name__=="__main__":
>
>
> for i in range(1,11):
> for j in range(1,11):
> if i != j:
> fileone="atom-pair_"+str(i)+".txt"
> filetwo="atom-pair_"+str(j)+".txt"
correction: here not ".txt", it's ".doc"
> a=open(fileone,"r").readline().strip().split(' ')
> b=open(filetwo,"r").readline().strip().split(' ')
> print(fileone,filetwo)
> print(CommonSublist(a,b))
>
> The output results:
>
the output is:
atom-pair_10.doc atom-pair_8.doc
[['75', '64'], ['13', '64', '75'], ['64', '62', '75', '16']]
atom-pair_10.doc atom-pair_9.doc
[['65', '46'], ['13', '75', '64']]
seems a bit better than before.
> atom-pair_10.txt atom-pair_8.txt
> [["'75',", "'64',"], ["'13',", "'64',", "'75',"], ["'64',", "'62',",
> "'75',", "'16',"]]
> atom-pair_10.txt atom-pair_9.txt
> [["'65',", "'46',"], ["'13',", "'75',", "'64',"]]
>
> the $ python3 CommonSublists.py
> atom-pair_1.txt atom-pair_2.txt
> Traceback (most recent call last):
> File "CommonSublists.py", line 47, in
> print(CommonSublist(a,b))
> File "CommonSublists.py", line 24, in CommonSublist
> result=result.append(sublist)
> AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'append'
>
> in local domain I set the result=[]
> I don't know why it complains its NoneType, since the "result" is
> nearly the same as "sublists".
>
Thanks with best regards,
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Re: [Tutor] (no subject)
On 11/11/11 22:17, Andreas Perstinger wrote: I don't know about windows but if you want to run the script from the command line you have to add: if __name__ == "__main__": main() No, you only need to do that if you plan on using the file as a module at some point. If you don't need a module then the OPs style will work just fine on any OS. But since having module facilities is so easy it is good practice to always use the if main clause... -- Alan G Author of the Learn to Program web site http://www.alan-g.me.uk/ ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Hello again. Still the same problem, different question.
On 12 November 2011 07:27, wrote: > Send Tutor mailing list submissions to > tutor@python.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > tutor-requ...@python.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at Please have a useful subject line next time, the current subject doesn't tell us anything about your problem. > Someone there told me they would've given up by now but I am not giving up > on this one or anything else. Just to give you a heads up, you will be > getting questions about this until this program works. You can't force me to answer questions! Additionally; I, for one, will put you on ignore if you spam this list with questions that are about the same subject and are unsolvable because the standard version doesn't work. So just to give you a heads up: don't overextend your welcome. -- best regards, Robert S. ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
[Tutor] Time subtractrion
Hi, I've been trying to code a timer that tells you how long you've been on the net and I can't figure out how to produce a figure in hours, minutes and seconds that is constantly being updated. If anyone could point out a module with functions like this or built in functions, I'd be very grateful. Cameron ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] (no subject)
On 2011-11-12 10:33, Alan Gauld wrote: On 11/11/11 22:17, Andreas Perstinger wrote: I don't know about windows but if you want to run the script from the command line you have to add: if __name__ == "__main__": main() No, you only need to do that if you plan on using the file as a module at some point. If you don't need a module then the OPs style will work just fine on any OS. Of course you're right. Sorry for the misinformation. It was probably too late in the evening when I wrote this yesterday :-(. Bye, Andreas ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] longest common substring
On 11/12/2011 03:54 AM, lina wrote: The one I tried : if longest>= 2: sublist=L1[x_longest-longest:x_longest] result=result.append(sublist) if sublist not in sublists: sublists.append(sublist) the $ python3 CommonSublists.py atom-pair_1.txt atom-pair_2.txt Traceback (most recent call last): File "CommonSublists.py", line 47, in print(CommonSublist(a,b)) File "CommonSublists.py", line 24, in CommonSublist result=result.append(sublist) AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'append' in local domain I set the result=[] I don't know why it complains its NoneType, since the "result" is nearly the same as "sublists". Assuming this snippet is part of a loop, I see the problem: result = result.append(sublist) list.append() returns none. It modifies the list object in place, but it doesn't return anything. So that statement modifies the result object, appending the sublist to it, then it sets it to None. The second time around you see that error. In general, most methods in the standard library either modify the object they're working on, OR they return something. The append method is in the first category. -- DaveA ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Time subtractrion
On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 6:07 AM, Cameron Macleod wrote: > Hi, > > I've been trying to code a timer that tells you how long you've been on > the net and I can't figure out how to produce a figure in hours, minutes > and seconds that is constantly being updated. If anyone could point out a > module with functions like this or built in functions, I'd be very grateful. Have you looked at the time module? http://docs.python.org/library/time.html -Wayne ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] longest common substring
On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 9:22 PM, Dave Angel wrote: > On 11/12/2011 03:54 AM, lina wrote: >> >> >> The one I tried : >> if longest>= 2: >> sublist=L1[x_longest-longest:x_longest] >> result=result.append(sublist) >> if sublist not in sublists: >> sublists.append(sublist) >> >> the $ python3 CommonSublists.py >> atom-pair_1.txt atom-pair_2.txt >> Traceback (most recent call last): >> File "CommonSublists.py", line 47, in >> print(CommonSublist(a,b)) >> File "CommonSublists.py", line 24, in CommonSublist >> result=result.append(sublist) >> AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'append' >> >> in local domain I set the result=[] >> I don't know why it complains its NoneType, since the "result" is >> nearly the same as "sublists". >> > Assuming this snippet is part of a loop, I see the problem: > > result = result.append(sublist) > > list.append() returns none. It modifies the list object in place, but it > doesn't return anything. So that statement modifies the result object, > appending the sublist to it, then it sets it to None. The second time > around you see that error. I am sorry. haha ... still lack of understanding above sentence. >>> a ['3', '5', '7', '8', '9'] >>> d.append(a) >>> d [['3', '5', '7', '8', '9']] >>> type(a) Sorry and thanks, best regards, lina > > In general, most methods in the standard library either modify the object > they're working on, OR they return something. The append method is in the > first category. > > > -- > > DaveA > > ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] longest common substring
On 11/12/2011 09:48 AM, lina wrote: On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 9:22 PM, Dave Angel wrote: On 11/12/2011 03:54 AM, lina wrote: The one I tried : if longest>= 2: sublist=L1[x_longest-longest:x_longest] result=result.append(sublist) if sublist not in sublists: sublists.append(sublist) the $ python3 CommonSublists.py atom-pair_1.txt atom-pair_2.txt Traceback (most recent call last): File "CommonSublists.py", line 47, in print(CommonSublist(a,b)) File "CommonSublists.py", line 24, in CommonSublist result=result.append(sublist) AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'append' in local domain I set the result=[] I don't know why it complains its NoneType, since the "result" is nearly the same as "sublists". Assuming this snippet is part of a loop, I see the problem: result = result.append(sublist) list.append() returns none. It modifies the list object in place, but it doesn't return anything. So that statement modifies the result object, appending the sublist to it, then it sets it to None. The second time around you see that error. I am sorry. haha ... still lack of understanding above sentence. a ['3', '5', '7', '8', '9'] d.append(a) d [['3', '5', '7', '8', '9']] type(a) Sorry and thanks, best regards, lina In general, most methods in the standard library either modify the object they're working on, OR they return something. The append method is in the first category. To keep it simple, I'm using three separate variables. d and a are as you tried to show above. Now what happens when I append? Python 2.7.1+ (r271:86832, Apr 11 2011, 18:13:53) [GCC 4.5.2] on linux2 Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information. >>> d = [] >>> a = [3, 5, 7] >>> xxx = d.append(a) >>> print(repr(xxx)) None >>> print d [[3, 5, 7]] Notice that d does change as we expected. But xxx, the return value, is None. The append() method doesn't return any useful value, so don't assign it to anything. The statement in your code that's wrong is result = result.append(sublist) The final value that goes into result is None, no matter what the earlier values of result and sublist were. -- DaveA ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] longest common substring
On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 10:57 PM, Dave Angel wrote: > On 11/12/2011 09:48 AM, lina wrote: >> >> On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 9:22 PM, Dave Angel wrote: >>> >>> On 11/12/2011 03:54 AM, lina wrote: The one I tried : if longest>= 2: sublist=L1[x_longest-longest:x_longest] result=result.append(sublist) if sublist not in sublists: sublists.append(sublist) the $ python3 CommonSublists.py atom-pair_1.txt atom-pair_2.txt Traceback (most recent call last): File "CommonSublists.py", line 47, in print(CommonSublist(a,b)) File "CommonSublists.py", line 24, in CommonSublist result=result.append(sublist) AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'append' in local domain I set the result=[] I don't know why it complains its NoneType, since the "result" is nearly the same as "sublists". >>> Assuming this snippet is part of a loop, I see the problem: >>> >>> result = result.append(sublist) >>> >>> list.append() returns none. It modifies the list object in place, but it >>> doesn't return anything. So that statement modifies the result object, >>> appending the sublist to it, then it sets it to None. The second time >>> around you see that error. >> >> I am sorry. haha ... still lack of understanding above sentence. >> > a >> >> ['3', '5', '7', '8', '9'] > > d.append(a) > d >> >> [['3', '5', '7', '8', '9']] > > type(a) >> >> >> >> Sorry and thanks, best regards, >> >> lina >> >>> >>> In general, most methods in the standard library either modify the object >>> they're working on, OR they return something. The append method is in >>> the >>> first category. >>> >>> > > To keep it simple, I'm using three separate variables. d and a are as you > tried to show above. Now what happens when I append? > > Python 2.7.1+ (r271:86832, Apr 11 2011, 18:13:53) > [GCC 4.5.2] on linux2 > Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information. d = [] a = [3, 5, 7] xxx = d.append(a) print(repr(xxx)) > None print d > [[3, 5, 7]] > > Notice that d does change as we expected. But xxx, the return value, is > None. The append() method doesn't return any useful value, so don't assign > it to anything. Thanks, ^_^, now better. I checked, the sublist (list) here can't be as a key of the results (dict). actually I also wish to get the occurence of those sublist in the script, except using external one in command line as uniq -c. ^_^ Have a nice weekend, > > The statement in your code that's wrong is > result = result.append(sublist) > > The final value that goes into result is None, no matter what the earlier > values of result and sublist were. > > -- > > DaveA > ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] longest common substring
On 2011-11-12 16:24, lina wrote:
Thanks, ^_^, now better.
No, I'm afraid you are still not understanding.
I checked, the sublist (list) here can't be as a key of the results (dict).
"result" isn't a dictionary. It started as an empty list and later
becomes a null object ("NoneType").
You must not forget that you are inside a for-loop. Simplified your
situation is like this:
>>> result = []
>>> for i in range(1,10):
... print("Iteration {0}, result = {1}".format(i, result))
... result = result.append(i)
...
Iteration 1, result = []
Iteration 2, result = None
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "", line 3, in
AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'append'
As you see the error happens in the *second* iteration, because result
is no list any more.
Dave gave you already the explanation: functions and method always
return a value in Python. If the don't have a return statement they
return "None".
Another simple example:
>>> a = print("Test")
Test
"print" is a function which prints out the text you passed to it and you
usually aren't interested in its return value. But every function/method
in Python returns something. You save this value in "a"
>>> print(a)
None
As you see the return value of "print" is "None".
>>> a.append(x)
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "", line 1, in
AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'append'
Same error as above, because "NoneType" objects (null objects) don't
have a method "append".
I also think you mix two different ways to add an element to a list:
result.append(x)
is equivalent to
result = result + [x] (that's what you will use in other languages)
HTH, Andreas
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[Tutor] [off-topic] Any thread for linux troubleshooting
Hi All : Sorry guys , i know this is not the right thread. Just wanted to bump off a question . I am new to python and have just installed linux(new to linux as well :) ) on my system. It has both the Windows 7 and Ubuntu 11.0 now. Can you please refer some threads for linux troubleshooting queries ?? Thanks in advance Bikash P.S :- Posting the query , just in case. I am getting the following as the initial command line in the terminal when i open it after installation . Can i change it ? is there any error in the installation ? "dinesh@dinesh-Invalid-entry-length-0-DMI-table-is-broken-Stop:~$ " i want to make it just dinesh . ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] longest common substring
On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 11:40 AM, Andreas Perstinger <
andreas.perstin...@gmx.net> wrote:
> On 2011-11-12 16:24, lina wrote:
>
>> Thanks, ^_^, now better.
>>
>
> No, I'm afraid you are still not understanding.
>
>
> I checked, the sublist (list) here can't be as a key of the results
>> (dict).
>>
>
> "result" isn't a dictionary. It started as an empty list and later becomes
> a null object ("NoneType").
>
> You must not forget that you are inside a for-loop. Simplified your
> situation is like this:
>
> >>> result = []
> >>> for i in range(1,10):
> ... print("Iteration {0}, result = {1}".format(i, result))
> ... result = result.append(i)
> ...
> Iteration 1, result = []
> Iteration 2, result = None
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
> File "", line 3, in
>
> AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'append'
>
> As you see the error happens in the *second* iteration, because result is
> no list any more.
> Dave gave you already the explanation: functions and method always return
> a value in Python. If the don't have a return statement they return "None".
>
> Another simple example:
>
> >>> a = print("Test")
> Test
>
> "print" is a function which prints out the text you passed to it and you
> usually aren't interested in its return value. But every function/method in
> Python returns something. You save this value in "a"
>
> >>> print(a)
> None
>
> As you see the return value of "print" is "None".
>
> >>> a.append(x)
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
> File "", line 1, in
>
> AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'append'
>
> Same error as above, because "NoneType" objects (null objects) don't have
> a method "append".
>
> I also think you mix two different ways to add an element to a list:
>
> result.append(x)
>
> is equivalent to
>
> result = result + [x] (that's what you will use in other languages)
>
> HTH, Andreas
>
> __**_
> Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org
> To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
> http://mail.python.org/**mailman/listinfo/tutor
>
This is a fascinating thread in the same way that people can't help slowing
down and looking at a car crash on the side of the road is fascinating.
The original poster it seems is new to programming and has offered that he
likes to run before he learns to walk. That doesn't seem like a good
proclamation to make when you are asking people to help you. Anyway, this
particular piece of code is pretty tricky stuff. It involves understanding
list comprehensions, multidimensional lists, and slices. All things that
take more than a passing interest in to grasp.
Furthermore, the algorithm itself is pretty tricky. If you follow the link
to the wikipedia article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longest_common_substring you learn that
understanding the algorithm requires understanding of trees (Generalized
suffix trees at that!).
I copied the code from the original article and played around with it for
an hour or so to understand it. I didn't get the answers that I expected
either.
If you are learning coding in general and python in particular this
exercise seems unproductive. Work through basic concepts. If you don't
like one set of tutorials, find a different one. if you don't like to
read, check out google videos for learning python, or youtube for that
matter. But taking on a concise algorithm that solves a problem that would
challenge a 3rd year CS student doesn't seem like a good idea
--
Joel Goldstick
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Re: [Tutor] Suggest Book
Hi Pankaj! Have a look at : http://wiki.python.org/moin/BeginnersGuide http://norvig.com/21-days.html I'm currently learning from this book: http://learnpythonthehardway.org/book/ Have a look. It's a good book for starting out. Just pick one that you like and start learning. I wish you good luck! Regards, amt. On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 4:29 PM, Pankaj Jakhar wrote: > Hello > > Please suggest me the best book for Python from which I can learn basics > to advanced Python. > > Thank you. > * > PankaJ **Jakhar** > * > > ___ > Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org > To unsubscribe or change subscription options: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor > > ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] [off-topic] Any thread for linux troubleshooting
On 12/11/11 17:54, Bikash Sahoo wrote: Can you please refer some threads for linux troubleshooting queries ?? Not so much a thread but the Ubuntu web forum is a good starting place and there are tons of Linux news groups. Try a search on Google groups as your starting point. Also the Linux Documentation Project www.ldp.org has loads of how-to docs. I've been using Linux on and off since 1993 but only made the total switch to it this July. So far I'm loving it except for the lack of a decent Video editor and Visio clone. Fortunately Serif Movieplus and SmartDraw 6 work under Wine so I'm a happy bunny :-) -- Alan G Author of the Learn to Program web site http://www.alan-g.me.uk/ ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] [off-topic] Any thread for linux troubleshooting
On 12/11/11 17:54, Bikash Sahoo wrote: Can you please refer some threads for linux troubleshooting queries ?? Not so much a thread but the Ubuntu web forum is a good starting place and thereare tons of Linux news groups. Try a search on Google groups as your starting point. Also the Linux Documentation Project www.ldp.org has loads of how-to docs. I've been using Linux on and off since 1993 but only made the total switch to it this July. So far I'm loving it except for the lack of a decent Video editor and Visio clone. Fortunately Serif Movieplus and SmartDraw 6 work under Wine so I'm a happy bunny -- Alan G Author of the Learn to Program web site http://www.alan-g.me.uk/ I checked the above website and I was linked to a foreign political blog. The correct link is: tldp.org/ for The Linux Documentation Project. Ken ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
