Possible constant assignment operators ":=" and "::=" for Python

2006-04-28 Thread tsaar2003
Hi Pythonians,

To begin with I'd like to apologize that I am not very experienced
Python programmer so please forgive me if the following text does not
make any sense.

I have been missing constants in Python language. There are some
workarounds available, for example the const-module. To me, this looks
quite cumbersome and very unintuitive. For the interpreter, in the
efficiency-wise, I just cannot tell.

For the solution I came up with two new assignment operators to the
language which would create a constant name and constant value: Let's
welcome the new constant assignment operators := and ::=

The := assignment operator says that "declare the name to be constant
and immutable". However, there might be some side-effects and the
constant may not always be constant as you will see below:

a = [1, 2, 3]
b := [4, 5, 6] # assign [4,5,6] to 'b' and declare name 'b' to
be "constant" and "immutable"
c := a # assign 'a' to 'c' and declare that name 'c' is
"constant" and "immutable"
d = c # assign 'c' to 'd' and 'd' inherits the
"immutable"-attribute from 'c', but 'd' can be assigned
later
e = d # assign 'd' to 'e' and 'e' inherits the
"immutable"-attribute from 'd', but 'e' can be assigned
later
a.append( b )
print a # prints [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6]
print c # prints [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6] because of the side-effect
print d # prints [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6] as well
print e # prints [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6] no magic here
c = b # 'c' cannot be assigned as 'c' is "constant"
c := b # 'c' cannot be redefined either as 'c' is
"constant"
c.append( 7 ) # cannot be done as 'c' is "immutable"
d.append( 7 ) # cannot be done as 'd' is "immutable" as it was
inherited from 'c'.
e.append( 7 ) # cannot be done as 'e' is "immutable" as it was
inherited from 'd'.
d = [7, 8, 9] # normal variable assignment because 'd' was not
declared to be a "constant"
d.append( 10 ) # now allowed as 'd' is not "immutable" any more

The ::= copy&assign-operator says that "make a copy of the
right-hand-side object and declare the name to be constant and
immutable ". This would give us a true constant object which cannot be
changed. Example follows:

a = [1, 2, 3]
b = [4, 5, 6]
c ::= a # make copy of 'a' and assign that new copy to 'c' and
declare that name 'c' is a "constant" and "immutable"
d = c # assign 'c' to 'd' and 'd' inherits the
"immutable"-attribute from 'c', but 'd' can be assigned
later
e := d # assign 'd' to 'e' and declare that name 'e' is
"constant" and "immutable"
a.append( b )
print a # prints [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6]
print c # prints [1, 2, 3] as 'a' and 'c' are two different
objects because of the ::=
print d # prints [1, 2, 3] no magic here
print e # prints [1, 2, 3] no magic here either
c = b # 'c' cannot be assigned as 'c' is "constant"
c := b # 'c' cannot be redefined either as 'c' is
"constant"
c.append( 7 ) # cannot be done as 'c' is "immutable"
d.append( 7 ) # cannot be done as 'd' is "immutable" as it was
inherited from 'c'.
e.append( 7 ) # cannot be done as 'e' is "immutable" as it was
inherited from 'd'.
d = [7, 8, 9] # normal variable assignment because 'd' was not
declared to be a "constant"
d.append( 10 ) # now allowed as 'd' is not "immutable" any more

The := operator would be computionally efficient as it creates only a
reference to an existing object but it may suffer from side-effects.
The ::= is less efficient as it makes a copy on an existing object, but
gives truly constant objects.

Does this make any sense to you, or are there some fatal issues that I
just happened to overlook?

Br,

T.S.

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Re: Possible constant assignment operators ":=" and "::=" for Python

2006-05-02 Thread tsaar2003
Bruno Desthuilliers wrote:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit :
> > Hi Pythonians,
> >
> > To begin with I'd like to apologize that I am not very experienced
> > Python programmer so please forgive me if the following text does not
> > make any sense.
> >
> > I have been missing constants in Python language.
>
> Why so ?
>
> I guess you're talking about named (symbolic) constants ? If so, just
> follow the convention : a name in ALL_UPPERCASE is a constant (or at
> least will be treated as such by anyone not wanting to mess with your
> package's implementation). No need to add extra syntax here IMHO.

Hi Bruno,

For example:

>>> A = []  # let's declare a "constant" here
>>> b = A   # and let's assign the constant here
>>> b.append('1') # OOPS!
>>> c = A
>>> print A
['1']
>>> print b
['1']
>>> print c
['1']

As you can see, the "constant" A can be modified this easily. But if
there were an intuitive mechanism to declare a symbol to be immutable,
then there won't be this problem.

Br,

- T.S.

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Re: Possible constant assignment operators ":=" and "::=" for Python

2006-05-03 Thread tsaar2003
Yes, I know that "constant" A will also be modified as the b[0] points
to A. Obviously the [] should be marked as immutable, as A is declared
to be constant thus immutable. If somebody tries to modify this
immutable object an error would occur.

When I further thought about this problem with constant objects (and
values), I run into this scenario: What if I want to use a constant
object/value as a template (or predefined value/class) for a variable:

constant A = ['1'] # let's declare A as immutable constant value/object
b = A # let's assign b some default value
b.append('2') # and let's play with b, but I wouldn't want to change A

What I'd like to see here is that b gets a copy of A so that the
original A won't be modified as we play with b. However, as we assign a
constant value A to b, I wouldn't want to restrict myself from playing
with b. Of course, I could write something like b = list(A) to get a
copy of A assigned to b. However, in this situation I have to know the
class name of A. But this is something that I would no like to have to
know if we want to take modules as some kind of  black boxes.

Br,

T.S.

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Re: Possible constant assignment operators ":=" and "::=" for Python

2006-05-03 Thread tsaar2003
> are you sure you know how Python's object model work ? if you do, please
> explain your proposal in terms of what needs to be changed, rather than in
> terms of wishful thinking.

No, I do not know. As stated in my first post, I am quite newbie in
Python and miss a simple and intuitive mechanism that would allow to
declare something as constant and that would protect these "constant"
objects from accidental modifications.

T.S.

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