Re: Alternatives to Stackless Python?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > After recently getting excited about the possibilities that stackless > python has to offer > (http://harkal.sylphis3d.com/2005/08/10/multithreaded-game-scripting-with-stackless-python/) > and then discovering that the most recent version of stackless > available on stackless.com was for python 2.2 I am wondering if > Stackless is dead/declining and if so, are there any viable > alternatives that exist today? > > I found LGT http://lgt.berlios.de/ but it didn't seem as if the > NanoThreads module had the same capabilites as stackless. > See also greenlets, which work with regular cpython: http://codespeak.net/py/current/doc/greenlet.html http://agiletesting.blogspot.com/2005/07/py-lib-gems-greenlets-and-pyxml.html You'll probably need to get it via an svn client (such as tortoisesvn on windows): http://codespeak.net/py/current/doc/getting-started.html -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Django Vs Rails
Jaroslaw Zabiello wrote: > Dnia 24 Sep 2005 22:48:40 -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] napisał(a): > > >>You should give TurboGears a try. > > This project is good only for fun and playing not for enterprise. That's my kind of project :) -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: cElementTree clear semantics
Igor V. Rafienko wrote: > This gave me the desired behaviour, but: > > * It looks *very* ugly > * It's twice as slow as version which sees 'end'-events only. > > Now, there *has* to be a better way. What am I missing? > Try emailing the author for support. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: cElementTree clear semantics
Reinhold Birkenfeld wrote: > D H wrote: > >>Igor V. Rafienko wrote: >> >>>This gave me the desired behaviour, but: >>> >>>* It looks *very* ugly >>>* It's twice as slow as version which sees 'end'-events only. >>> >>>Now, there *has* to be a better way. What am I missing? >>> >> >>Try emailing the author for support. > > > I don't think that's needed. He is one of the most active members > of c.l.py, and you should know that yourself. > I would recommend emailing the author of a library when you have a question about that library. You should know that yourself as well. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: cElementTree clear semantics
Reinhold Birkenfeld wrote: > > Well, if I had e.g. a question about Boo, I would of course first ask > here because I know the expert writes here. > > Reinhold Reinhold Birkenfeld also wrote: > If I had wanted to say "you have opinions? fuck off!", I would have said >"you have opinions? fuck off!". Take your own advice asshole. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Reinhold Birkenfeld [was "Re: cElementTree clear semantics"]
D H wrote: > Reinhold Birkenfeld wrote: > >> >> Well, if I had e.g. a question about Boo, I would of course first ask >> here because I know the expert writes here. >> >> Reinhold > > > Reinhold Birkenfeld also wrote: > > If I had wanted to say "you have opinions? fuck off!", I would have said > >"you have opinions? fuck off!". > > > Take your own advice asshole. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Reinhold Birkenfeld [Re: "Re: cElementTree clear semantics"]
Reinhold Birkenfeld wrote: > D H wrote: > >>D H wrote: >> >>>Reinhold Birkenfeld wrote: >>> >>> >>>>Well, if I had e.g. a question about Boo, I would of course first ask >>>>here because I know the expert writes here. >>>> >>>>Reinhold >>> >>> >>>Reinhold Birkenfeld also wrote: >>> > If I had wanted to say "you have opinions? fuck off!", I would have said >>> >"you have opinions? fuck off!". >>> >>> >>>Take your own advice asshole. > > > And what's that about? I think it means you should fuck off, asshole. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Reinhold Birkenfeld [Re: "Re: cElementTree clear semantics"]
Reinhold Birkenfeld wrote: > D H wrote: > >>Reinhold Birkenfeld wrote: >> >>>D H wrote: >>> >>> >>>>D H wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>>Reinhold Birkenfeld wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>Well, if I had e.g. a question about Boo, I would of course first ask >>>>>>here because I know the expert writes here. >>>>>> >>>>>>Reinhold >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Reinhold Birkenfeld also wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>If I had wanted to say "you have opinions? fuck off!", I would have said >>>>>>"you have opinions? fuck off!". >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Take your own advice asshole. >>> >>> >>>And what's that about? >> >>I think it means you should fuck off, asshole. > > > I think you've made that clear. > > *plonk* > > Reinhold > > PS: I really wonder why you get upset when someone except you mentions boo. You're the only one making any association between this thread about celementree and boo. So again I'll say, take your own advice and fuck off. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Fredrik Lundh [Re: Reinhold Birkenfeld [Re: "Re: cElementTree clear semantics"]]
Fredrik Lundh wrote: > Doug Holton wrote: > > >>You're the only one making any association between this thread about >>celementree and boo. > > > really? judging from the Original-From header in your posts, your internet > provider is sure making the same association... You seriously need some help. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: cElementTree clear semantics
Grant Edwards wrote: > On 2005-09-25, D H <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >>>>Igor V. Rafienko wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>>This gave me the desired behaviour, but: >>>>> >>>>>* It looks *very* ugly >>>>>* It's twice as slow as version which sees 'end'-events only. >>>>> >>>>>Now, there *has* to be a better way. What am I missing? >>>> >>>>Try emailing the author for support. >>> >>>I don't think that's needed. He is one of the most active >>>members of c.l.py, and you should know that yourself. >> >>I would recommend emailing the author of a library when you >>have a question about that library. You should know that >>yourself as well. > > > Why?? Please tell me I don't have to explain to you why the author of a 3rd party library might be able to answer a question specific to that library. > For the things I "support", I much prefer answering questions > in a public forum. Right, which is exactly why we have sourceforge, tigris, google groups, and numerous other free resources where you can set up a mailing list to publicly ask and answer questions about your software. Of course it may not get you as many paypal hits as spamming larger forums with your support questions will, but it is the decent thing to do. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: cElementTree clear semantics
Fredrik Lundh wrote: > Paul Boddie wrote: > > >>Regardless of anyone's alleged connection with Boo or newsgroup >>participation level, the advice to contact the package >>author/maintainer is sound. It happens every now and again that people >>post questions to comp.lang.python about fairly specific issues or >>packages that would be best sent to mailing lists or other resources >>devoted to such topics. It's far better to get a high quality opinion >>from a small group of people than a lower quality opinion from a larger >>group or a delayed response from the maintainer because he/she doesn't >>happen to be spending time sifting through flame wars amidst large >>volumes of relatively uninteresting/irrelevant messages. > > > well, for the record, I strongly recommend people to post questions in > public forums. google is far more likely to pick up answers from mailing > list archives and newsgroups than from the "I really should do something > about all the mails in my support folder" part of my brain. You run your own server and get plenty of paypal donations. Why not run your own mailing list for support? If not, see sourceforge or google groups: http://groups.google.com/groups/create?lnk=l&hl=en -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Grant Edwards [Re: cElementTree clear semantics]
Grant Edwards wrote: > On 2005-09-25, D H <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >>>>I would recommend emailing the author of a library when you >>>>have a question about that library. You should know that >>>>yourself as well. >>> >>>Why?? >> >>Please tell me I don't have to explain to you why the author >>of a 3rd party library might be able to answer a question >>specific to that library. > > > Of course not. And when that author reads this group, why not > post questions here so that everybody can benefit from the > information? When did I ever argue against that? I was suggesting a resource to use to support your own software. I think you have assumed that I suggested posting here about celementree was off-topic. Tell me where I ever said that. I said to the first guy that he should ask the author for help, meaning that he could get help that way as well. Furthermore, I believe that is the more efficient way to get help, by contacting the author directly, especially if that author is too lazy to set up their own support forum or list. >>>For the things I "support", I much prefer answering questions >>>in a public forum. >> >>Right, which is exactly why we have sourceforge, tigris, >>google groups, > > > Exactly how do you think c.l.p on google groups differs from > c.l.p on the rest of Usenet? Who the fuck said that? Are you pulling this shit out of your ass? >>and numerous other free resources where you can set up a >>mailing list to publicly ask and answer questions about your >>software. Of course it may not get you as many paypal hits as >>spamming larger forums with your support questions will, > > > WTF are you on about? What the hell is a "Paypal hit"? How is > posting a single, on-topic, question to c.l.p "spamming"? Fredrik Lundh gets money via paypal on his site where his software is located. That's what I meant. Where did I say this particular post is a spam? Again, your ass? where do you get this shit? > >>but it is the decent thing to do. > > > You sir, are a loon. > You're a funny ass. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: "no variable or argument declarations are necessary."
James A. Donald wrote: > I am contemplating getting into Python, which is used by engineers I > admire - google and Bram Cohen, but was horrified to read > > "no variable or argument declarations are necessary." > > Surely that means that if I misspell a variable name, my program will > mysteriously fail to work with no error message. > > If you don't declare variables, you can inadvertently re-use an > variable used in an enclosing context when you don't intend to, or > inadvertently reference a new variable (a typo) when you intended to > reference an existing variable. > > What can one do to swiftly detect this type of bug? It's a fundamental part of python, as well as many other scripting languages. If you're not comfortable with it, you might try a language that forces you to declare every variable first like java or C++. Otherwise, in python, I'd recommend using variable names that you can easily spell. Also do plenty of testing of your code. It's never been an issue for me, although it would be nicer if python were case-insensitive, but that is never going to happen. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Parrot & Python ?
Do Re Mi chel La Si Do wrote: > Hi ! > > On the site of Amber : http://xamber.org/index.html > We can to view the sentence : "Parrot version of Python" > Question : what is "Parrot version of Python" ? > Parrot is a virtual machine runtime, like the java vm or .NET CLR. http://www.parrotcode.org/ People are working on making various scripting languages run on top of the parrot vm, like the Amber language you found, and python http://pirate.tangentcode.com/ and Lua http://members.home.nl/joeijoei/parrot/ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: New project coming up...stay with Python, or go with a dot net language??? Your thoughts please!
spiffo wrote: > Ok, I LOVE python, so that is not the issue, but, I am getting very worried > about it's growth. I recently re-visted the web looking at alot of projects > I assumed would be up and running by now from over a year ago, such as Boa > Constructor, Iron Python etc... it seems all these projects get started, but > never finished. > > Also, more and more I need *complete* control of ms sql from my apps, which > is simply not available from the adodbapi module I got off the internet... > also, ms sql 2005 is getting ready to come out... what if the guy that wrote > adodbapi.py does not feel like upgrading it so it even works with MS SQL > SERVER 2005? Yeesh... you get the picture... If everything revolves tightly around a microsoft product (ms sql 2005, which isn't even released yet), you probably are boxed in more towards other microsoft products. That's vendor lock-in for you. You might try VS.NET 2005 and see if C# or VB.NET and the ADO.NET api work well for you: http://lab.msdn.microsoft.com/vs2005/ Of course that plus ms sql 2005 will end up costing a great deal of money. Plus none of it is cross-platform, but you already said you do not need that. There are free .NET alternatives like Mono, Sharpdevelop, boo ( http://boo.codehaus.org/ ) and nemerle, but they are not caught up with .NET 2 stuff yet. Again, it hasn't even been released yet, and there are still bugs in their beta versions. So it wouldn't surprise me if the python libraries can't handle ms sql 2005-specific stuff yet either. So, if you need a short answer now, I'd say go with vs.net 2005, but if you can afford to wait a while, free python and .net alternatives will catch up. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: New project coming up...stay with Python, or go with a dot net language??? Your thoughts please!
Istvan Albert wrote: > Disclaimer: this is not a flame against Boo. > > It just boggles my mind that a language that describes itself as > "python inspired syntax" keeps being touted as: > > >>Luis M. Gonzalez wrote: >>Boo (which could be considered almost an static version of Python for .NET) > > > Boo is *nothing* like a static version of Python. Stop perpetuating > this nonsense. There is no static version of python, only a proposal[1] which was quickly stomped on and revised to be about slower runtime type-checking: def gcd(a: int, b: int) -> int: while a: a, b = b%a, a return b The boo equivalent is: (http://boo.codehaus.org/) def gcd(a as int, b as int) as int: while a: a, b = b%a, a return b Looks "nearly identical" to me. (Istvan has been a long spewer of anti-boo FUD on this list) [1] http://www.artima.com/weblogs/viewpost.jsp?thread=85551 -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: more than 100 capturing groups in a regex
Fredrik Lundh wrote: > Joerg Schuster wrote: > > >>>if you want to know why 100 is a reasonable and non-random choice, I >>>suggest checking the RE documentation for "99 groups" and the special >>>meaning of group 0. >> >>I have read everything I found about Python regular expressions. But I >>am not able to understand what you mean. What is so special about 99? > > > it's the largest number than can be written with two decimal digits. It's a conflict between python's syntax for regex back references and octal number literals. Probably wasn't noticed until way too late, and now it will never change. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: NEWBIE
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > brenden wrote: > >>hey everyonei'm new to all this programming and all this stuff and >>i just wanted to learn how to do it... >> >>does anyone think they can teach me how to work with python? > > > Don't waste readers' time with such vague and broad requests. Instead, > post a specific question, for example showing a small fragment of > Python code that does not work as you expect. Or ask how to do XYZ in > Python, if you are unable to find the answer using Google. > > "Newbie" by itself is always a bad subject line. Having a specific > question should help you form a better title for your message. As you can see, you won't find help here. You will get a lot of great advice and help on the python-tutor list, which is for beginners such as yourself: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Hi All - Newby
Ask wrote: > > I found a link to this newsgroup, downloaded 1000 messages, You might check out the python-tutor list if you have beginner questions: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor > I must admit to much confusion regarding some of the basics, but I'm sure > time, reading, and good advice will get rid of that. at this stage, it's > just working through some examples and getting my head around things. As an > example, if I create a window, I've been unable to force it to be a certain > size, and put a button (widget) at (say) 20,40 (x & y). Is window formatting > possible? You might also see wxpython: http://www.wxpython.org/ The "wiki" there has some examples and beginner resources. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: want some python ide
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > i want some python ide use pygtk > eric3 is good for me ,but i like gtk,so i want some pygtk ide look like > eric3 > wing is a good python ide,but i can not download it > some other python ide(must use pygtk) > thx > You can just use a text editor like jedit with gazpacho or glade http://gazpacho.sicem.biz/ They are not as easy to use at QT Designer though for building interfaces. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: How to avoid "f.close" (no parens) bug?
Carsten Haese wrote: > On Thu, 2 Nov 2006 23:56:22 +0200, o wrote > >>plez send me >> > > > Please tell us what bug you're talking about: > > A) Python closed the file but you expected it not to. > B) Python didn't close the file but you expected it to. > C) Python didn't warn you when you wrote "f.close" instead of "f.close()". > D) Something else. Please elaborate by giving us a code example, a description > of what you expected to happen, and a description of what happened instead. It is certainly B & C. It is a common issue. There is no way to avoid it unless you learn how to avoid it. Other than that, PyChecker may help find this kind of error. Over a year ago Guido said he wanted to include pychecker with python but it still hasn't happened, so you can download it from here: http://pychecker.sourceforge.net/ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: about python ide
?? wrote: > i am use python2.4.2 on my gentoo linux system > i want to find some ide of python > but i am using gtk2.8,wxPython has some bug on it.i cant emerge it correctly. > i want some ide use pygtk or other lib of python gui except > wxpython(wxWidgets) Try Gazpacho or Glade for designing your user interfaces: http://gazpacho.sicem.biz/ and here is an IDE called Pida: http://pida.berlios.de/ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Underscores in Python numbers
Steve Holden wrote: > David M. Cooke wrote: >> One example I can think of is a large number of float constants used >> for some math routine. In that case they usually be a full 16 or 17 >> digits. It'd be handy in that case to split into smaller groups to >> make it easier to match with tables where these constants may come >> from. Ex: >> >> def sinxx(x): >> "computes sin x/x for 0 <= x <= pi/2 to 2e-9" >> a2 = -0.1 4 >> a4 = 0.00833 33315 >> a6 = -0.00019 84090 >> a8 = 0.0 27526 >> a10= -0.0 00239 >> x2 = x**2 >> return 1. + x2*(a2 + x2*(a4 + x2*(a6 + x2*(a8 + x2*a10 >> >> (or least that's what I like to write). Now, if I were going to higher >> precision, I'd have more digits of course. >> > Right, this is clearly such a frequent use case it's worth changing the > compiler for. Yes it is. In that one example he used digit grouping 5 more times than I've used lambda in my life. Remember people use python as a data format as well (see for example JSON). It's a simple harmless change to the parser: ignore underscores or spaces in numeric literals. As others have mentioned, Ruby supports this already, as do Ada, Perl, ML variants, VHDL, boo, nemerle, and others. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: ANN: Dao Language v.0.9.6-beta is release!
Scott David Daniels wrote: > Tom Anderson wrote: >> So, could someone explain what's so evil about tabs? > > > They appear in different positions on different terminals (older hard- > copy), do different things on different OS's, and in general do not > behave nicely. On many (but not all) systems, they advance to the next > column that is a multiple of 8, but not all, and people (and editors) > use them freely to get to those positions, not understanding that they > are not necessarily going to the same position. The fact that they > provide an ambiguous display is enough to make them evil. How is that a problem that some editors use 8 columns for tabs and others use less? So what? A bigger problem I see is people using only 2 or 3 spaces for indenting. That makes large amounts of code much less readable. And of course it is a problem if you mix tabs and spaces at the beginning of the same line. Tabs are easier to type (one keystroke each) and lead to visually better results (greater indentation unless you like hitting 8 spaces for each indent level). -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: ANN: Dao Language v.0.9.6-beta is release!
Rick Wotnaz wrote: > So, for instance, even a single character (like an opening or > closing bracket or a semicolon) is an indication that the design > can be improved. Or a colon -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: i=2; lst=[i**=2 while i<1000]
Daniel Schüle wrote: > Hello NG, > > I am wondering if there were proposals or previous disscussions in this > NG considering using 'while' in comprehension lists > > # pseudo code > i=2 > lst=[i**=2 while i<1000] > > of course this could be easily rewritten into > i=2 > lst=[] > while i<1000: > i**=2 > lst.append(i) That would loop endlessly since you don't increment i. You can use i**=2 for i in range(1000) instead -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: iron python exe problem
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Hello, > > I have test.py: > print 'hello' > > I compile using iron python the result is test.exe > > I have got error message when I tried to call test.exe telling that > test.exe is not a valid win32 application. > > How can I solve this problem? > > Sincerely Yours, > Pujo > drag all the ironpython dlls into the same folder as your generated exe and try again. That error could also be a result of running a .net 2 app in .net 1.1 or something similar. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: i=2; lst=[i**=2 while i<1000]
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >>You can use i**=2 for i in range(1000) instead > > > I don't think one can use assignment in list comprehension or generator > expression. The limitation is very much like lambda. > i**2 -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: iron python exe problem
Dennis Lee Bieber wrote: > On 6 Dec 2005 08:25:43 -0800, "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > declaimed the following in comp.lang.python: > > >>Hello, >> >>I run exactly inside IronPython-0.9.5\bin where IronPython.dll exist. >>I've already uninstalled my .net 1.1 so there is onle .net 2.0 >> > > REINSTALL 1.1... Even M$ states that the two releases are supposed > to co-exist... IronPython is .net 2 only, I believe, so .NET 1.1 should be unnecessary. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Documentation suggestions
Ian Bicking wrote: >>There are endless minor bugs in the library reference, but that seems >>unavoidable. It documents many different and shifting modules, and >>what to document is itself a contentious issue, so I don't think the >>stream of small problems will ever cease. > > > Since the topic of php.net-style comments comes up often, I thought I'd > note I've been working on a comment system: > http://pythonpaste.org/comment/commentary/ -- this might be useful for > collecting and managing small updates and fixes to the documentation. Yes, do it the way php's documentation is done, Xah Lee's recent trolls aside. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: ANN: Dao Language v.0.9.6-beta is release!
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Some people like it just as it is. Don't change ANYTHING! search for NIMPY > Some people (a lot of the ones that don't give Python a chance) want > one more choice, braces. Is that so much to ask for? If you like curly brace style, there are always other scripting languages like javascript (rhino for the jvm) or groovy or others. If you like "end" statements style, there is always ruby or one of the basic dialects like visual basic or gambas, or see rexx dialects too like netrexx or oorexx. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: ANN: Dao Language v.0.9.6-beta is release!
Fredrik Lundh wrote: > Zeljko Vrba wrote: > > >>But look at the following example: >> >>if a: >> some_code1 >>if b: >> some_code2 >> >>If I accidentaly delete if b:, then some_code2 gets under the if a: which is >>not intended. > > > not to mention that if you have > > if a: > some_code1 > some_code2 > > and accidentally remove some_code2, it won't be executed at all ! > > do you often remove code by accident? is this some vi-specific problem ? > If you had bothered to read the context he was merely showing an example to prove that this is not entirely true: "Making a mistake in indentation level is precisely analogous to leaving out markers in other languages." He was not suggesting that this is some affliction that he suffers, as you are suggesting. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: What is different with Python ?
Peter Hansen wrote: > D H wrote: >> So you say he "has done relatively little serious development" and >> that he may not even know about Python. I didn't see any evidence >> from those pages to draw either conclusion. In fact the 4th paragraph >> quite contradicts them both. > > > Clearly this is a matter of opinion. You're kidding right? Did you even read the about page you cited? The guy has been doing C++ development for decades, he wrote a book on it, and yet you say he has done "little serious development"??? That's absurd. And he was the president of ACCU, which if you look on the ACCU page at the very top is a mention of Python. And yet you suggested that he hasn't even heard of Python before. Again, absurd. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: case/switch statement?
Peter Hansen wrote: > D H wrote: > >> Peter Hansen wrote: > > [some stuff Doug didn't like] > Actually, this is what you snipped, stuff you didn't like, because the very mention of "boo" causes you such fits: > Since you and Steve Holden agree that a case statement is useful, why > don't you propose it for python, or add it to the wiki page for Python > 3000. > > Here is the syntax the developers of your favorite language boo ( > http://boo.codehaus.org/ ) are using: > > given x: > when 1: > ... > when 2: > ... > otherwise: > ... -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is there something similar to ?: operator (C/C++) in Python?
Peter Hansen wrote: > Bo Peng wrote: > >> I need to pass a bunch of parameters conditionally. In C/C++, I can do >> func(cond1?a:b,cond2?c:d,.) >> >> Is there an easier way to do this in Python? > > > Please read the FAQ to learn the answer and much other useful ... The answer is no. Use if statements. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Loop until condition is true
Joseph Garvin wrote:
> Peter Otten wrote:
>
>> I found 136 occurrences of "do {" versus 754 of "while (" and 1224 of
>> "for
>> (" in the Python 2.4 source, so using these rough estimates do-while
>> still
>> qualifies as "rarely used".
>>
>> Peter
>>
>>
>>
> That's 136 times you'd have to use an ugly hack instead. I definitely
> wouldn't mind an until or do/while.
Yeah a do while loop was proposed over 2 years ago, but nothing ever
came of it:
http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0315.html
It's been discussed for many many years, and again recently:
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2005-June/054167.html
--
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Re: calling subclass constructor question
In Han Kang wrote:
> So each of the sub classes plots a different type of graph. The
> superclass defines methods that are the same for all the plots. I want
> to be able to pick some points and be able to generate a more plots.
> What I was wondering if I could define in a method in the superclass of
> an object the ability to make a brand new subclass (new plot). So
> basically, one plot makes another plot, but it'd be nice if i could put
> all the code in the superclass.
Right, I agree with Steven, that you are probably wanting something like
the factory pattern. Here's something modified from Steven's example
more like what you are asking for:
class Plot(object): #you need to subclass object to get __subclasses__
@staticmethod
def getplot(name):
return [plot for plot in
Plot.__subclasses__() if plot.__name__ == name][0]()
class LinePlot(Plot):
pass
class BarGraph(Plot):
pass
lp = Plot.getplot("LinePlot")
bar = Plot.getplot("BarGraph")
See also: http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/86900
--
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Re: Is there something similar to ?: operator (C/C++) in Python?
Peter Hansen wrote: > D H wrote: > >> Peter Hansen wrote: >> >>> Bo Peng wrote: >>> >>>> I need to pass a bunch of parameters conditionally. In C/C++, I can do >>>> func(cond1?a:b,cond2?c:d,.) >>>> >>>> Is there an easier way to do this in Python? >>> >>> >>> Please read the FAQ to learn the answer and much other useful ... >> >> >> The answer is no. Use if statements. > > > Actually that's just one possible answer. Whether it's _the_ answer is > obviously again a matter of opinion, and as usual we differ. Quit being such an idiot and refuting everything I say. The answer is simply no, just use an if statement instead. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: webserver application (via Twisted?)
flupke wrote: > I need to program and setup serveral webservices. > If i were still using jsp, i would use Tomcat to make the several > applications available on a given port. > How can i accomplish this in Python? > I was thinking about Twisted but it's not clear to me what parts i need > to make a webserver listen on a certain port and having it serve > different application based on the url that i received. See mod_python: http://www.modpython.org/ but there are literally dozens of other options in Python though: http://wiki.python.org/moin/WebProgramming If you want to it in your own standalone server, then I second the recommendation for Karrigell (which also can be run in mod_python as well). -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Favorite non-python language trick?
Joseph Garvin wrote: > I'm curious -- what is everyone's favorite trick from a non-python > language? And -- why isn't it in Python? You can try out new features yourself now using various python extensions or descendants: http://livelogix.net/logix/ - macros, no statement/expression distinction http://students.ceid.upatras.gr/~sxanth/pyc/ - assignments are expressions, you can try other features never added python like a ternary operator (x ? true action:false action) http://boo.codehaus.org/ assignments are expressions, macros, static typing, no more "self" required, ... -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is there something similar to ?: operator (C/C++) in Python?
Dave Brueck wrote: > Please keep the discussion civil; please help keep c.l.py a nice place > to visit. You didn't see Peter Hansen's previous post to which I made my reply, so I'd like to extend your recommendation to *everyone* here. Peter Hansen wrote: > Doug, please stop making an idiot of yourself ...[snipped more flames] -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Favorite non-python language trick?
infidel wrote: >>def class Colour: >>def __init__(self, blue=0, green=0, red=0): >># pseudo-Python code borrowing concept "with" from Pascal >>with self: >>blue = blue >>green = green >>red = red >> >>And now you can see why Python doesn't support this idiom. > > > Maybe it would make more sense if it was done a la Visual Basic > > with self: > .blue = blue > .green = green > .red = red > > requiring a dot to be typed removes the ambiguity and gives the IDEs a > chance to Intellisense-ify your coding. Some made a python recipe emulating this I believe. The python cookbook search engine is down though so I cannot find the link. At one point Guido van Rossum was advocating this use of "with" as well, I believe: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-March/043545.html But I don't think it is being considered now. I think now "with" is being proposed for something more like VB and C#'s "using" statement. It automatically disposes of a resource when done with it: http://wiki.python.org/moin/WithStatement -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Favorite non-python language trick?
Roy Smith wrote: > Tom Anderson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >>The one thing i really do miss is method overloading by parameter >>type. I used this all the time in java > > > You do things like that in type-bondage languages like Java and C++ > because you have to. Can you give an example of where you miss it in > Python? Well it's coming to a future Python version, so apparently there are many who can use it: http://wiki.python.org/moin/Python3.0Suggestions#head-7df9d7035174644fdae024ed4a5ea0960a003ef5 I don't know if you'll have method overloading, but there will be type checking. It's not actually compile-time "static typing" though. The type checking still happens at run-time similar to your isinstance example, making code run slightly slower than a normal python method: "Type checking is going to slow down your code." -GVR 2005 keynote, http://www.sauria.com/%7Etwl/conferences/pycon2005/20050324/The%20State%20of%20Python.html -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is there something similar to ?: operator (C/C++) in Python?
Riccardo Galli wrote: > On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 09:00:04 -0500, D H wrote: > > >>>Bo Peng wrote: >>> >>> >>>>I need to pass a bunch of parameters conditionally. In C/C++, I can >>>>do func(cond1?a:b,cond2?c:d,.) >>>> >>>>Is there an easier way to do this in Python? >>> >>> >>The answer is simply no, just use an if statement instead. > > > That's not true. > One used form is this: > result = cond and value1 or value2 So anywhere someone uses x?y:z you recommend they use "x and y or z" instead, or else "[y,z][x]", but not: if x: val = y else: val = z I still would recommend just using an if statement, even though it is not easier to type than a ternary expression. It is the most readable and understandable equivalent in Python. And since his question was about an easier way to do it in Python, and I don't believe your alternative are any easier either, I believe the answer is still no. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is there something similar to ?: operator (C/C++) in Python?
Steven D'Aprano wrote: > On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 12:54:34 -0500, D H wrote: > > >>Riccardo Galli wrote: >> >>>On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 09:00:04 -0500, D H wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>>>Bo Peng wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>I need to pass a bunch of parameters conditionally. In C/C++, I can >>>>>>do func(cond1?a:b,cond2?c:d,.) >>>>>> >>>>>>Is there an easier way to do this in Python? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>The answer is simply no, just use an if statement instead. >>> >>> >>>That's not true. >>>One used form is this: >>>result = cond and value1 or value2 >> >>So anywhere someone uses x?y:z you recommend they use "x and y or z" >>instead, or else "[y,z][x]", but not: >> >>if x: >>val = y >>else: >>val = z > > > That's not what he said at all. Nowhere did Riccardo suggest that one or > the other method was better than if..else. The *most* he did was to > suggest a personal opinion that cond and value1 or value2 was "nice". He said "that's not true", when I suggested that there is not something easier than ? ternary expressions in Python, and that the original poster should use if statements instead. So yes, that is what he said by refuting my suggestion. He must have misinterpreted my response as "if statements are the only way to do something like ternary expression", which is not what I said. Again, I said there is *nothing* that is as easy as to use as ternary expressions in Python - use if statements instead. >>I still would recommend just using an if statement, even though it is >>not easier to type than a ternary expression. > > > That's fine. Recommend it all you like. But it isn't the only way, and it > isn't even arguably the best or easiest or simplest way. You have assumed the same mistaken interpretation of my remarks as he did. When did I ever say an if statement is the *only* way? In the very note to which you responded, I even acknowledged two other ways of doing this. If statements are in the best and easiest and simplest way to do conditionals, however, which is exactly what I was arguing. > >>It is the most readable >>and understandable equivalent in Python. > > > To you maybe. Actually, to me also. But "easier" doesn't just mean > "easier to read" -- it also means "easier to write", I explicitly stated in the very note you replied to that if statements are easier to understand and read, yet not easier to write than ? ternary conditionals. So thanks for duplicating my own point. > Until then, the question is at least partly a matter of personal taste, > and as such, there is no justification for such sweeping generalities as > "the answer is simply no, just use an if statement instead". Except that is the right answer. It's too bad diehard Python evangelists (to borrow another one of Peter Hansen's flames) don't give people straight answers when they are looking for a feature that python just doesn't have and likely will never have, such as the ? ternary operator. The answer is no, there is nothing as easy to use as that in Python, and I suggested using if statements instead. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Favorite non-python language trick?
Terry Reedy wrote:
> "D H" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>
>
>>Roy Smith wrote:
>
>
>>>Tom Anderson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>
>>>>The one thing i really do miss is method overloading by parameter
>>>>type. I used this all the time in java
>
>
>>>You do things like that in type-bondage languages like Java and C++
>>>because you have to. Can you give an example of where you miss it in
>>>Python?
>>
>>Well it's coming to a future Python version,
>
>
> The 'it' under discussion is 'method overloading by parameter type'. While
> a few people have requested it, I have seen no indication that 'it' is
> coming.
Did you not see the very next sentence I wrote which exactly clarified
my point that I was referring to type checking and not method
overloading? Way to quote me out of context. Type checking IS coming
to python in all likelihood ->
>>I don't know if you'll have method overloading, but there will be type
>>checking.
>>"Type checking is going to slow down your code." -GVR 2005 keynote,
>>http://www.sauria.com/%7Etwl/conferences/pycon2005/20050324/The%20State%20of%20Python.html
>
>
> You left out "NOTE: Nothing's settled yet" and "
> Reminder and Disclaimer
> Nothing's settled yet!
I also left out the dozens of angry rants that people wrote after Guido
first proposed static typing, leading him to change the proposal to
runtime type checking, which by definition will slow down the code.
Static typing is almost certainly not going to come to Python, but the
typing annotations ("def method(x : int) -> bool") can be used by other
tools perhaps to do optimizations at compile time.
--
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Re: Favorite non-python language trick?
Terry Reedy wrote: > "Tom Anderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > >>sometimes in python. No, it's not really possible in a typeless language, >>and yes, there are implementations based on decorators, but frankly, >>they're awful. > > > Python has strongly typed objects. Only names are typeless. Again, you are splitting hairs. His point still stands that it is not possible to do method overloading in python (unless you use decorator hacks). It may be possible to add this feature when type declarations and type checking are added to a future version of python. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: A strange and annoying restriction, possibly a bug. A glance by a more experienced would be nice.
Elmo Mäntynen wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > This is the case: > > n=(100,) tuple(*n) > > > Traceback (most recent call last): > File "", line 1, in -toplevel- > tuple(*n) > TypeError: iteration over non-sequence The star (*n) means you are essentially calling tuple(100). And 100 alone isn't a sequence. The star explodes or expands the sequence, like in this example: def doit(x, y, z): print x, y, z vals = (1,2,3) doit(*vals) #see the star symbol -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Thoughts on Guido's ITC audio interview
Dave Benjamin wrote: > One thing Guido mentions in his comparison of ABC (Python's predecessor) and > Python is how ABC was inextricably tied to its environment (a la Smalltalk), What surprised me was that this was the only thing he really mentioned. He didn't mention anything about the theoretical underpinnings of ABC, he was only involved in the implementation of ABC, and others did all the language design. And his main criticism is a pragmatic issue with using the ABC in real tasks like reading external files. It explains why sometimes Python's features seem to be more implementation-driven rather than design-driven. Such as perhaps the use of self, but a counter-example is slicing syntax, borrowed from the language Icon apparently. I think when you borrow some features from a language but not all, you have to re-evaluate every part of the language design. Colons at the end of lines for example help readability in the ABC language because keywords are all uppercase (unlike python). So the colons in effect counteract some of the negative impact uppercase words place on readability. In Python however, I don't see how colons really are needed to help readability at all. And there are other issues too such as changing python to be case-insensitive or making 7/4 == 1.75 instead of 1 which even Guido wanted at one point ( http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/5028 ), but only the latter was implemented (yet not enabled by default yet). > I find that a similar comparison can be made between Python and Java. Java's > startup time is so long that it is not practical for writing small tools for > use in command-line scripts, and the propensity toward application servers > and integrated development environments suggests a strong preference for a > monolithic, self-contained, single-language environments. That's a very good point. Yeah you never hear of people using java for making quick little scripts, which python and php are really great for (among other things). > Guido makes a funny jab at Paul Graham about Graham's nine things that make > Lisp Lisp (available here: http://www.paulgraham.com/icad.html) - I had read > this essay many times but never saw the subtle irony behind claims of > "Greenspunning": in order to claim that a language is approaching Lisp, you > have to define what it is about Lisp that other languages are purportedly > emulating, and this begs the question of why you have the authority to > declare which 9 (or n) attributes of Lisp are most important. I like Paul > Graham and his essays a lot, but I must admit I had to laugh too when I > heard the way Guido framed this argument. I'm not so sure that Python has 8 > out of 9, though: the statement/expression dichotomy rules out #6, and the > lack of macros rules out #9. These are arguable, depending on how you define > things, but I think the most obvious thing that Python lacks compared with > Lisp and Scheme (and also Ruby) is a symbol type (#7). I'm in the process of > trying to understand what symbols are good for, outside the context of Lisp > and its nested lists of symbols as executable code. Ruby seems to have come > up with some creative uses for symbols within Python-like syntax, though I > haven't seen anything terribly compelling so far. Other python extensions and descendants I mentioned in this note are exploring the two main things lisp has but python doesn't - #6 eliminating the expression/statement distinction (at least in some cases like assignments), and #9 macros: http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/msg/360c99b7ab7b839c?dmode=print&hl=en > - Java: the usual static vs. dynamic, static analysis vs. unit testing > arguments. Guido says that there's such a small amount of problems that > can be caught at compile time, and even the smallest amount of unit > testing would also catch these problems. "The blindness of that [static] > position... escapes me." As pointed out elsewhere, type declarations also help with documenting your code, as well as dramatically speeding up your program. > I think Python's decision to use reference counting was an instance of > worse-is-better: at the time, reference counting was already known not to be > "the right thing", but it worked, and the implementation was simple. > Likewise with dynamic typing versus type inference. It seems that Guido > shares Alan Kay's viewpoint that type inference is really "the right thing", > but modern language technology is really not ready to make it mainstream, > whereas dynamic typing works today, and is arguably a better "worse" > solution than explicit/manifest static typing due to its verbosity. That's very interesting. Type inference isn't always perfect though. There are some cases where it can't infer the type, or it infers the wrong type that you really want. Type inference + dynamic typing is a good combination that can speed up your code without slowing
Re: Which kid's beginners programming - Python or Forth?
BORT wrote: > So, that said... In ~simplest~ terms for the stated goal -- Forth or > Python? > ...the goal is NOT the spelling tutor... it is learning how to use a > tool to solve a problem. I am asking which tool is more suited to an > otherwise arbitrary direction of "spelling tutor program." Python is easier to learn that most other popular programming languages. For a games approach, check out this online "book" targeted to kids: http://staff.easthighschool.net/lee/computers/book/ It uses pygame and Lee Harr's pygsear. For another graphical approach, playing around with images and sound files, see the Jython Environment for Students (JES). Jython is python running on top of java's virtual machine. http://coweb.cc.gatech.edu/mediaComp-plan/94 http://coweb.cc.gatech.edu/mediaComp-plan/27 http://coweb.cc.gatech.edu/mediaComp-plan For text-to-speech, if you are using Windows and python, see the pyTTS module and this link: http://www.cs.unc.edu/~parente/tech/tr02.shtml If you are using jython, see FreeTTS instead: http://freetts.sourceforge.net/docs/index.php But since your son is only 10 years old, I'd really recommend first some non-python development environments that are even more geared to kids: - Lego Mindstorms, which has a graphical programming environment to control robots you build (you connect a flow chart to describe the program instead of having to type and indent everything perfectly). It is targetted specifically for kids his age, but it is a bit expensive. - http://agentsheets.com/ - Very neat java-based authoring tool, but unfortunately costs money too. Trial version only lasts 10 days, but you can learn a lot in that time using this tool. - NetLogo (and the older version StarLogo): http://ccl.northwestern.edu/netlogo/ Uses Logo to script hundreds of "turtles" in parallel. This is a free tool. - http://e-slate.cti.gr/ really awesome authoring tool, but hasn't been updated in a couple of years because I guess the funding ran out. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: f*cking re module
Gustavo Niemeyer wrote: > That's what I love in that news group. Someone comes with a > stupid and arrogant question, and someone else answers in a > calm and reasonable way. ...and then someone else comes along and calls the first person stupid and arrogant, which is deemed QOTW. :) -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: HTML expect in python
WGW wrote: > I would like to automate some simple browser navigating using python. > Ideally, I would like a package like pyexpect, but that can handle a > browser in much the same way as pyexpect handles a terminal (tall > order!). In short, I want a macro language for a browser (I know about > the commercial packages such as Easy Bee and Internet macros, but I want > more programmability and less cost!) See the mechanize module: http://wwwsearch.sourceforge.net/mechanize/ Or else you can use win32com stuff to automate internet explorer if you really need to do it that way. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: goto
Mike Meyer wrote: > rbt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > >>Many of the world's most profitable software companies (MS for example) >>have thousands of goto statements in their code... oh the horror of it >>all. Why aren't these enlightened-by-the-gods know-it-alls as profitable >>as these obviously ignorant companies? > > > Because profitability has *nothing* to do with code quality, and > everything to do with marketing. MS, in particular, has done an > excellent job of divorcing code quality from their bottom line by > shuffling the bulk of the support work off to other companies: > hardware vendors who bundle MS software, system integrators, and > customers friends and family being very high on the list. > > That they felt the need to do this speaks volumes about their code > quality. whoa whoa whoa! Discussing goto statements and Microsoft together is like mixing dynamite and gasoline. We don't want this to explode into some interminable argument; that's not the kind of thing people like to see on comp.lang.python. Oh by the way, boo has goto statements: http://svn.boo.codehaus.org/trunk/tests/testcases/integration/goto-1.boo?view=auto KABOOM -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Rich Graphics?
Cairo is an option, for Linux only though at the moment. There is a python binding: http://cairographics.org/bindings You can use it in combination with pygtk: http://cvs.cairographics.org/pycairo/examples/svg/ See also the backends used by matplotlib, a python plotting module. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: A replacement for lambda
Mike Meyer wrote: > Rewriting a canonical abuse of lambda in this idiom gives: > > myfunc = def @(*args): > return sum(x + 1 for x in args) Nice proposal. Technically you don't need the @ there, it is superfluous. But then again so is the colon, so whatever floats your boat. > class Spam(object): > myprop = property(fget = def @(self): >return self._properties['myprop'] >, > fset = def @(self, value): >self._properties['myprop'] = value >, > fdel = def @(self) >del self._properties['myprop'] >, > doc = "Just an example") I think the anonymous lambdas need to be outside the parentheses to be parsable. Maybe like this: class Spam(object): myprop = property(fget, fset, fdel, doc="just an example"): where fget = def (self): . where fset = def (self): . where fdel = def (self): ... As you can see, it doesn't save much over the traditional way since you have to name the "anonymous" lambdas anyway. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: The ONLY thing that prevents me from using Python
I would highly recommend user-mode linux (UML) hosting, like bytemark or Linode: http://user-mode-linux.sourceforge.net/uses.html Starting around the same price as average shared hosting, you get your own virtual linux box (i recommend debian), on which you can install java, mod_python, php, mono, jabber, or whatever you need. You are no longer subject to the whims of the hosting provider, with respect to things like which version of PHP they support, or how many mysql databases you can create. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Replacement for keyword 'global' good idea? (e.g. 'modulescope' or 'module' better?)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > I've heard 2 people complain that word 'global' is confusing. > > Perhaps 'modulescope' or 'module' would be better? > > Am I the first peope to have thought of this and suggested it? > > Is this a candidate for Python 3000 yet? It is likely that more people would find module or modulescope confusing. Plus module has a different customary meaning already: import -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Replacement for keyword 'global' good idea? (e.g. 'modulescope' or 'module' better?)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > I'm not saying 'modulescope' and 'module' are the only alternatives or > even > the best anyone can come up with. > > 'global' has the connotation of being visible *EVERYWHERE* > where in Python it is just visible in one module's space. > > Can you think of a better alternative or do you believe > 'global' is the best possible? > When designing a language meant to be easy to use as well as powerful feature-wise, you have to weighh between things like technical accuracy of a term (which you are focusing on), how much typing it takes, how easy it is to remember and spell correctly, and how the term is commonly understood and used. Sometimes python takes one of those considerations to the extreme (like "def") or has a uncommon view of "common understanding" (like "lambda"). But global is the best term I can think of for the way it is used, and it is by far the most common term used for these kind of variables in numerous other languages including vb, php, ruby, etc. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python's Exception, and Capitalization
Ray wrote: > Hello guys, > > OK, I've been reading some more about Python. There are some things > about Python exception that I haven't been able to grasp: > > 1. This is a small thing, but why is object spelled "object", and the > mother of all exception "Exception" (with capital E)? Why is not object > spelled "Object" then? I would guess that object is considered a primitive/basic type like int or float or string. > I mean, in Java, > it's Object. Whereas in C++, they're quite consistent, standard stuff > are usually all lowercaps (basic_string, iostream, etc.). Python seems > to have a mix of both. Yeah java capitalizes anything that is a class like String, Object, Integer, and lowercases its primitives like int, byte. > By the way, what's the convention for functions? It's a bit confusing > because when I see Python builtins, it seems that they follow C++ style > (e.g.: has_key, readline). So... does it mean that when I write my own > function, customarily I'd say myFunction() (or MyFunction()?) Yeah, the python standard library has been built by lots of different people. It wasn't designed by one entity using one standard like the java standard library or .NET/Mono class library. > 2. I'm quite baffled that you either have try/except, or try/finally. Apparently that will be fixed sometime: http://python.miscellaneousmirror.org/peps/pep-0341.html -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: loop in python
km wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Why is it that the implementation of empty loop so slow in python when
> compared to perl ?
>
> #i did this in python (v 1.5)
> for x in xrange(1000):
> print x
> # this took 0.017 seconds
> --
> #similar code in perl (v 5.6):
> for $x (0..1000)
> {
> print $x;
> }
> # this took 0.005 seconds only !!!
>
> Is python runtime slow at all aspects when compared to perl ?
> I really wonder what makes python slower than perl ?
Yeah but the python version took 2.1 less seconds to type.
Python runs as fast as Perl.
--
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Re: Sandboxes
42 wrote: > Or is this a hopeless cause? > > Finally, either way, would anyone recommend a different script engine > that might be more suitable for what I'm trying to accomplish that I > might not have looked at. I don't need much; it needs to work with C#, > and be able to easily interact with 'published' interface. I'd also like > to leverage a "popular" language instead of something obscure. You need a scripting language that is completely implemented in .NET (i.e. "managed"). Try Boo: http://boo.codehaus.org/ And then from your C# host, use the .NET security API for restricting what the script is allowed to do. See the example below, as well as msdn docs on SecurityPermissionFlag, PermissionSet, SetAppDomainPolicy... http://www.gamedev.net/community/forums/topic.asp?topic_id=264462&whichpage=1� And here are docs on using boo as an embedded scripting language: http://boo.codehaus.org/Boo+as+an+embedded+scripting+language -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: The ONLY thing that prevents me from using Python
Paul Rubin wrote: > Richie Hindle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > >>I can't speak for linode.org, but I have a Xen VPS from rimuhosting.com >>and it's early days but so far I've been very impressed. It's $19/mo >>(normally $20 but they kindly gave me a 5% Open Source Developer discount) > > > Do you get enough resources in that minimal-cost configuration to run > significant Python applications? Yes, you get more than enough to run python apps. You have to know how to run your own linux box though, including installing and configuring any extra software you want (with debian it's very easy using 'sudo apt-get'). Mod_python for example and apache2. I would look for a minimum 64mb ram, 3 gigs hd space, and minimum 15 gigs transfer/mo. At $20/mo, rimuhosting gives you 96mb ram, 4gig space, and 30gigs transfer/mo. So that does look like a good deal. (I don't use or work with any UML hosting provider. I used to have Bytemark, and it was great, although it looks like rimu and others may offer more for your buck now) The catch is the RAM restriction, which you might run into if you have huge mysql databases or whatever, and hard drive access is a slower than on a dedicated server. But I never noticed any slowdowns or ran into ram limitations. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: 'isa' keyword
talin at acm dot org wrote: > Although I realize the perils of even suggesting polluting the Python > namespace with a new keyword, I often think that it would be useful to > consider defining an operator for testing whether or not an item is a > member of a category. It's a good idea but not likely to be added to python, at least not til python 3000 comes out with type checking. The default way is "if isinstance(image, jpeg)". Also there is "if image |isa| jpeg:" using one of the various python hacks out there: http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/384122 But since Python doesn't have interfaces or type checking today, there really is not much need for isa or isinstance anyway, but you might use hasattr or try/except instead: http://www.canonical.org/~kragen/isinstance/ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: 'isa' keyword
Colin J. Williams wrote: > Could you elaborate on that please? See my earlier post in this thread, this link: http://www.canonical.org/~kragen/isinstance/ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Django Vs Rails
flamesrock wrote: > Firstly, this topic is NOT intended for trolling or starting any flame > wars. Whatever you say, "flamesrock". -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Django Vs Rails
flamesrock wrote: > D H, > 'flamesrock' refers to the Calgary Flames, not the act of flaming. > It was just a joke about your statement and your name. I thought it was obvious enough that a smiley wasn't necessary. I don't care though, flames happen on comp.lang.python all the time. Go with Rails. Django is only like a month old. Unless you are more comfortable using python than ruby. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Replacement for lambda - 'def' as an expression?
talin at acm dot org wrote: > I've been reading about how "lambda" is going away in Python 3000 (or See the page built from earlier threads about this: http://wiki.python.org/moin/AlternateLambdaSyntax Your syntax is the same used in boo: http://boo.codehaus.org/Closures -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Django Vs Rails
bruno modulix wrote: > D H wrote: > > (snip) > >>Go with Rails. Django is only like a month old. > > > Please take time to read the project's page. Django has in fact three > years of existence and is already used on production websites, so it's > far from pre-alpha/planning stage. > Don't make any assumptions about what I have and haven't read. Django was only publicly released in mid-July. Less than two months ago. I never implied it was "pre-alpha" or in a "planning" stage. The Ruby framework is also more mature and much much more tested than Django. But even then I am not stating one is inherently better than the other. Both seem very well designed. But if you have no clue about either project like the original poster, then I'd recommend Rails, unless you are already comfortable with Python (and not used to Ruby), which case go with Django. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python linear algebra module -- requesting comments on interface
Terry Reedy wrote: > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>The module will be public domain. > > > Various lawyers have suggested that either you cannot do that (is US) or > that you should not do that. (You know the joke -- ask two lawyers and you > get three opinions -- but all depends on your country of residence.) Well he can do it, but you are right, it is best not too. If anything, using an open source license will encourage people to share back any additions or bug fixes they make. ANTLR for example was public domain (still is for version 2), but switched to BSD for version 3: http://www.antlr.org/license.html -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: multiple replaces
You can use python's re.sub function. But also look into full fledged
template engines like Cheetah.
import re
txt="""
whatever
the machine with bing
10% of boo is foo
"""
h1=txt.replace("%","%%")
h3 = re.sub("", "%(\\1)s", h1)
house="something awfull"
tree="something beautifull"
print h3 % locals()
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Re: Rendering HTML
Harlin Seritt wrote: > I am looking for a module that will render html to console but > formatted much like one might see with Lynx. Is there such a module > already out there for this? http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/52297 -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Why doesn't IDLE editor windows have horizontal scrollbars?
chuck wrote: > Well I don't want to start yet another thread on IDE's. I've googled > and all of that an am aware of most of the IDE's that are out there. I > am curious if there is someplace where statistics have been captured on > what IDE's most people are using. Since IDLE ships with Python I > assume a lot of people use it. I've been a PythonWin user for years > but it has shortcomings, isnt' being developed further and doesn't run > on FreeBSD, my other platform. > I like the JEdit editor, which is free and cross-platform ( http://www.jedit.org/ ), and for the interpreter if you ever use that, there is the normal console (cmd.exe in windows) or see also IPython. There is also a console plugin for JEdit. But if you want a more full-featured IDE with project management, etc., there is a Python addin for the Eclipse IDE called pydev I believe. I haven't tried it myself though. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: wxPython OGL future
PD wrote: Hi Everyone, I am sort of a new developer to python and working in an academic environment. I climbed the learning curve on wxPython far enough to get the functionality I want out of it so far... Now Im in need of a diagramming library (something visio-like) to use for my software and the only option I have seen is OGL. Yet I read that OGL is dead, no longer maintained, obsucure and lacking documentation. Instead of taking a leap of faith and walking off a cliff, Ide appreciate if some people out there who have come across a similar problem have any solutions or suggestions for me... Well OGL still works as far as I know. Check out also pyxel. It hasn't been updated in almost a year though: http://bellsouthpwp.net/p/r/prochak/pyxel.html I am so disappointed at the moment I think Im about ready to throw in the towel and crawl back to java. I love python, but it has some real difficulties when it comes to making library choices on what _to_ and _not to_ get yourself into. Python baby, you broke my heart :) You can still use python in java, see jython. There is a similar tool that works in Java or .NET called Piccolo: http://www.cs.umd.edu/hcil/piccolo/ I'm using it with boo, a python-like language for .NET and Mono: http://boo.codehaus.org/ but you can also use it with IronPython or Jython. On the Linux side, see DiaCanvas (can use from CPython with pygtk) and DiaCanvas-Sharp (can use from boo or ironpython): http://diacanvas.sourceforge.net/ http://diacanvas.sourceforge.net/csharp.php -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: wxPython OGL future
PD wrote: I don't think I want that much out of it necessarily. I just feel really weird writing new software with deprecated libraries. By the time Im done with my project, I have to put all these disclaimers on how the new versions of wxWidgets might not work. The thing I am really concerened about is if wxPython decides to drop OGL because it is deprecated... anyhow thats my 2 cents. Actually, I think the information on the wxpython wiki is now out of date. OGL was implemented in C and wxpython provided a wrapper. That version is now dead. But they rewrote OGL in pure python. So it isn't obsolete yet I believe. Since it is written in python you can easily extend it or whatever. Instead of saying "import wx.ogl as ogl", say "import wx.lib.ogl as ogl". -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: replacing ASP/VBScript with Python
Peter Maas wrote: Peter Maas schrieb: I have inherited an extremely messy ASP/VBScript application which is a pain for me to support. Now the customer is thinking about a redesign. I'd like to rewrite the whole thing in Python but the app has to meet some conditions like - IIS frontend - MSSQL db server - Win32 authentication - No 'ugly' URLs like http://server/cgi-bin/frontend.cgi?main.py - Performance: intranet with ~ 1000 users In the meantime I have searched the internet and found plenty of options: - plain cgi with fastcgi and mod_rewrite for IIS to transform the URL - quixote cgi with fastcgi and mod_rewrite - Webware + wkcgi - Python ASP (registering Python with Pywin32 as ASP language) - mxODBC + SQL ODBC driver - pyADO + SQL MDAC driver Can those do Windows authentication though? I guess you could with Python ASP. If you really are stuck with ASP/IIS/Windows, then you might find using boo or ironpython easier since they work with .NET. I'm just saying it is an option, not that you shouldn't use CPython. > - I'd like to do session handling in Python because ASP's session > object is quite limited and some of the ASP app's mess is caused > by trying to use it for compound data type storage. OTOH I could > pickle Python objects to a string and store that in an ASP session. For storing complex data objects, instead of pickle, you can either use .NET serialization: http://boo.codehaus.org/XML+Serialization or db4objects, a GPL tool: http://www.db4o.com/ There is a sample of using boo with db4o here: http://db4oboobrowser.sourceforge.net/ Or ORMs like Gentle.NET can work with MSSQL: http://www.mertner.com/confluence/display/Gentle/Home -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: creating .NET clients with python
Guy Robinson wrote: Hello, Can anyone confirm if there is a python library that can allow me to create .NET clients in python. My understanding is both IronPython and python for .NET can't create python .net clients? Correct, although IronPython may work one day. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Ruby on Rails or Perl's Maypole..is there a Python equivalent
Gary Nutbeam wrote: I've noticed that the Perl camp has a very nice web/database environment called Maypole. Ruby has the Rails environment which on the surface seems similar to Maypole. I can't find anything in Python that ties a database to a web interface anywhere near as well as Ruby on Rails or Maypole. I see the behemoth Zope having the best web/database integration, but unfortunately I don't want to spent weeks writing xml for the interface. Does anyone know of something similar to Rails or Maypole in Python? Check out Castle on Rails for .NET/Mono. It is still in early development, but you can use it with C#, VB, or boo, and I'm sure eventually with IronPython as well. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: py2exe
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm a newbie at programmin. I've downloaded Python and am going through "How to think like a computer scientist". I've also downloaded py2exe and I don't really know how to use it. For one what is the disutil? thanks for the help yall. You'll get better help for beginner questions on the python-tutor list: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Why does this not work?
Gensek wrote: Thanks, guys, it works now. I couldn't have done it without your generous help. Ask on the wxpython or python-tutor list instead of this one. You'll get better help than there as you've already found out. The only thing I'd agree with is what Michael Hoffman said about posting a snippet of your code instead of a zip file. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: survey
Peter Hansen wrote: Dave Zhu wrote: Hello All, Is there any survey on scripting languages? I would like to get information on several scripting languages including Python, Perl, Ruby, Tcl, etc. What kind of information? ... See the other responses to his question. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Jython Phone Interview Advice
George Jempty wrote: Also, considering Javascript will be a substantial component of my job, I'm noticing that Javascript's array/"hash" literal syntax is EXACTLY the same as that for Python lists/dictionaries. This could lead to easily sharing data between the client and server side, though I think Look up JSON, XML-RPC, XMLHttpRequest and Java (you can use Jython in place of Java of course): http://oss.metaparadigm.com/jsonrpc/ http://developers.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/01/24/125236 http://www.webpasties.com/xmlHttpRequest/ Otherwise, the only thing I can think to tell a manager in a phone screen is that I'm willing to undergo brainbench.com's Python certification. Way out of date. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is Python like VB?
Mike Cox wrote: As you may or may not know, Microsoft is discontinuing Visual Basic in favor of VB.NET and that means I need to find a new easy programming language. I heard that Python is an interpreted language similar to VB. This means that it doesn't have all the hard stuff like pointers, classes and templates like C, C++ and assembly language. Where I work we use Microsoft Office with a lot of customization using Visual Basic. I would like to switch to Python to do it since VB is being discontinued. Would Python meet our requirements? I need to make lots of GUI applications (message boxes, forms, etc.) and do the underlying business logic too. I would either stick with the old Visual Basic since plenty of other people will keep using it, or go ahead and switch to VB.NET or C#. Especially if you are used to the Windows Form Designer in Visual Studio, I would not recommend switching to Python. It has no equivalent, and thus Python would be much harder for you to use. We have almost finished Windows form designer support in SharpDevelop IDE for boo, a .NET language similar to Python. But still in your case I'd just use VB.NET since you are familiar with VB and all .NET languages are pretty comparable. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python RegExp
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I have a string which I wish to match using RE, however when I run my
comparison (using the match method) on my machine it never returns,
using the CPU fully.
In your case it may be simpler to just split the string into groups.
You don't even need regular expressions or a parser.
buff = r"#1 1 550 111 SYNC_PEER RES syncpeers=(id=54325432;add=10." \
"0.0.1;port=89;up=89),(id=97899;add=10.0.0.1;port=543;up=543)," \
"(id=54325432;add=10.0.0.1;port=89;up=8)"
tran, sess, ndto, ndf, cmd, dirr, rest = buff.split()
eq = rest.find("=")
parmname = rest[0:eq]
parms = rest[eq+1:].split(",")
for parm in parms:
parmitems = parm[1:-1].split(";")
for item in parmitems:
name, val = item.split("=")
print name, val
print "---"
--
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Re: Python & LEGO Mindstorm control...
Venkat B wrote: Hi all, I have a question re the use of Python to control a robot built with the LEGO Mindstorm system. This is to help my 11yr old with his increased interest in 'programming' and 'robotics'... If not feasible, he wants to use the graphical-tool that comes with it... Would you suggest: 1. Using LegOS (http://legos.sourceforge.net/) and writing/using py extensions from a Linux-box, OR 2. Using LeJOS (http://lejos.sourceforge.net/) and writing Jython utils. Wanted to incorporate Python somehow, as it may be quite appropriate for his age. Will have to help quite a bit in either case, tho... but was wondering which is a more treaded path... I would use the graphical language environment that comes with Lego Mindstorms. It was designed for kids. I haven't seen anyone show how to program mindstorms with lejos and jython, only ruby: http://rubyforge.org/projects/lego-mindstorms/ In regular python, there is the Pyro robotics simulator: http://wiki.cs.brynmawr.edu/?Pyro but it is designed more for college students. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: decorator syntax polling suggestion
Jeremy Bowers wrote: On Fri, 01 Apr 2005 16:52:52 -0500, Jeremy Bowers wrote: Oops, sorry, some "send later" messages I thought were gone got sent. Sorry. Didn't mean to revive dead threads. At least it happened on April Fool's. Or should I say: @aprilfools def happened: at least -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Calling a Perl Module from Python ( future direction of Python)
gf gf wrote: Really! That's a pity... Instead of trying to recreate a repository the size of CPAN, a Python interface to Perl modules is really called for. CPAN modules are designed for Perl though. There's pyperl like they mentioned but it's like speaking two languages at once. It's not like the Java standard library or the .NET/Mono standard library that can be used easily with different languages. For Python, see PyPI and the Vaults of Parnassus: http://www.python.org/pypi http://www.vex.net/parnassus/ Instead of fretting over decorator syntax and lispiness, might I suggest that development efforts be directed to this? Developers, are you listening? Guido? They are actually focusing more on the python standard library lately. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: OO in Python? ^^
Fredrik Lundh wrote: > Write code, not usenet posts. QOTW! -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Great books on Python?
Tolga wrote: > I am not unfamiliar to programming but a newbie in Python. Could you > recommend me (a) great book(s) to start with? Free online books or > solid books are welcome. > http://www.ibiblio.org/g2swap/byteofpython/read/index.html http://www.ibiblio.org/obp/thinkCSpy/ http://www.freenetpages.co.uk/hp/alan.gauld/ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: simple question on optional parameters
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > I am using a toolkit that has a SetFaveNumbers() method. the method > accepts any number > of comma-separated numbers. > > the following are all valid examples: > > FooToolkit.SetFaveNumbers(1,3,5) > FooToolkit.SetFaveNumbers(2,4,6,8,10) > FooToolkit.SetFaveNumbers(1) > > I do not know how this method is implemented, but I would like to be > able > to call the method using a single variable: > > MyFaveNumbers = [] > MyFaveNumbers.append(2) > MyFaveNumbers.append(4) > > FooToolkit.SetFaveNumbers(MyFaveNumbers) See if this works: FooToolkit.SetFaveNumbers(*MyFaveNumbers) The asterix unpacks a list or tuple into individual items. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: What is unique about Python?
Kay Schluehr wrote: > gsteff wrote: > > >>So I'm wondering, what is >>innovative about Python, either in its design or implementation? Or is >>its magic really just in combining many useful features of prior >>languages in an unusually pleasant way? >> >>Greg > > > The latter. > > http://www.python-in-business.org/ep2005/download.cpy?document=8599 > > As Guido described in his presentation Python is a decendent of ABC > developed at the university where he studied. > > Here is some material about the primary motivations of ABC: > > http://homepages.cwi.nl/~steven/abc/language.html > > Python seems to proof that eclecticism can be done right. Python has as much resemblance to ABC as an airplane does to a car. The design principles used by ABC (like colons at the end of lines) may have a certain justification in the context of ABC, but you cannot simply transfer that justification to python. ABC is designed specifically and entirely to be beginner-friendly. Python is not. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: How to get started in GUI Programming?
Kay Schluehr wrote: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > >>I am trying to learn GUI programming in Python, but have to confess I >>am finding it difficult. > > > Don't do it if you can prevent it. What kind of helpful advice is that? > Conclusion: if you are already familiar with BASIC I would just > continue writing BASIC apps using VisualBasic dotNet, Windows Forms as > the underlying GUI toolktit and VisualStudio as IDE. Forget the > coolness factor of the language. Cool people never care a lot what > other people think. If you finally want to glue assemblys/controls > together in Python this is still possible with IronPython or > Python-dotNet ( which is a CPython binding to the CLR, available at > Zope.org ). So you recommend VB.NET on comp.lang.python, and then later publicly flame me for mentioning boo a year ago, as well as spew FUD about other languages you don't like. Doesn't the python community already have enough assholes as it is? -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: C# equivalent to range()
Neuruss wrote:
> I'm sorry for asking about another language here, but since I only know
> Python and I'm trying to write something in C#, I guess this is the
> best place...
>
> I'd like to know how to write this in C#:
>
> x=[]
> sz = 1000
> x.extend(range(sz))
>
> My question is about "range" and "extend". Is there any equivalent in
> C#?
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Neuruss
>
List mylist = new List();
for (int i=0; i<1000; i++)
{
mylist.Add(i);
}
You can use AddRange, C# 2.0 anonymous delegates, IEnumerable, yield,
foreach, and so forth instead, but for your example this is simplest.
Another option is to use boo. http://boo.codehaus.org/
It uses python's syntax but is as fast as C#. The only change you'd
have to make in that code is to capitalize the Extend method call.
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Re: Can Python format long integer 123456789 to 12,3456,789 ?
A.M wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Is there any built in feature in Python that can format long integer
> 123456789 to 12,3456,789 ?
Apparently you need to use the locale module. This is the
example they give online to print a simple number with commas:
import locale
locale.setlocale(locale.LC_ALL, 'English_United States.1252')
print locale.format("%d", 123456789, grouping=True)
Someone should make a module that uses .NET or Java's formmating.
You just use {0:n} or ###,### instead of all the above.
http://blog.stevex.net/index.php/string-formatting-in-csharp/
http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/i18n/format/decimalFormat.html
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Re: Python less error-prone than Java
Christoph Zwerschke wrote: > > See the following web page if you dont find it ;-) > http://googleresearch.blogspot.com/2006/06/extra-extra-read-all-about-it-nearly.html > The point of that is that it did fail. It threw an ArrayIndexOutOfBoundsException exception. But it was just luck that happened. Unfortunately I don't think java and C# have integer overflow checking turned on by default. Take this longArithmetic benchmark here: http://www.cowell-shah.com/research/benchmark/code and a story about it here: http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=5602&page=3 The java and C# versions are fast (15 seconds for me), BUT, they give the incorrect result because of an overflow error. The python version gives the correct result because it transparently changes the underlying types to handle the larger numbers, BUT this causes it to run over 20X slower than Java or C#. It takes 10 minutes to complete in python, not 15 seconds. With psyco, it takes 5 minutes. So to say the story you pointed out shows that python is superior is a matter of perspective. Yes, python gave the correct result by silently changing the underlying types to longs, and that is what I would expect of a scripting language. But the price is speed. In both these cases, I would rather be made aware of the error in the code and fix it so I didn't have to suffer slowdowns. That is why in boo ( http://boo.codehaus.org/ ) luckily overflow checking is enabled by default, and it throws a overflow exception at runtime to tell you something is wrong with your code. When you then fix for that, you get the same 15 second time just like java and C#. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python vs. Lisp -- please explain
Donn Cave wrote:
> I can say "Python can serve as a scripting language for some applications",
> but not "Python is a scripting language!"
bruno at modulix wrote:
> as soon as you say "interpreted, scripting", peoples think "not
> serious".
Cameron Laird wrote:
> I *think* you're proposing that,
> were Guido more knowledgeable, he would have created a Python
> language that's roughly as we know now, implemented it with
> FASTER software ... and "to its own detriment".
Fredrik Lundh wrote:
> define "scripting language".
>
> the only even remotely formal definition I've ever seen is "language
> with designed to script an existing application, with limited support
> for handling
> its own state". Early Tcl and JavaScript are scripting languages,
> Python is not.
Kay Schluehr wrote:
> Yes, it's Guidos master-plan to lock programmers into a slow language
> in order to dominate them for decades.
Donn Cave wrote:
> All I'm saying is that Python matches
> what people think of as an interpreted language. You can deny it, but
> but it's going to look like you're playing games with words, and to no
> real end, since no one could possibly be deceived for very long.
Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> Describing C (or Lisp) as "compiled" and Python as "interpreted" is to
> paint with an extremely broad brush, both ignoring what actually
> happens in fact, and giving a false impression about Python. It is
> absolutely true to say that Python does not compile to machine code.
> (At least not yet.) But it is also absolutely true that Python is
> compiled. Why emphasise the interpreter, and therefore Python's
> similarity to bash, rather than the compiler and Python's similarity
> to (say) Java or Lisp?
Paul Boddie wrote:
> Yes, I think that with optional static typing, it's quite likely that
> we would see lots of unnecessary declarations and less reusable code
> ("ints everywhere, everyone!"), so I think the point about not
> providing people with certain features is a very interesting one,
> since
> people have had to make additional and not insignificant effort to
> optimise for speed. One potential benefit is that should better tools
> than optional static typing be considered and evaluated, the "ints
> everywhere!" line of thinking could prove to be something of a dead
> end
> in all but the most specialised applications. Consequently, the Python
> platform could end up better off, providing superior tools for
> optimising performance whilst not compromising the feel of the
> language
> and environment.
Torsten Bronger wrote:
> By the way, this is my main concern about optional static typing: It
> may change the target group, i.e. it may move Python closer to those
> applications where speed really matters, which again would have an
> effect on what will be considered Pythonic.
Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> The "Python is both interpreted and compiled" camp, who
> believe that both steps are equally important, and to
> raise one over the other in importance is misleading.
> That's why Sun doesn't describe Java as interpreted,
> but as byte-code compiled. They did that before they
> had JIT compilers to compile to machine code.
Bruno Desthuilliers wrote:
> It's not a "scripting" language, and it's not interpreted.
It will all be sorted out once and for all in Python 3000: The Reckoning
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Re: annonymous functions -- how to
Peter Hansen wrote: > Jason Mobarak wrote: > >> What's wrong with: >> >> def blah(): >> def _ (a, b, c): >> a = a + 2 >> print "stmt 2" >> return a+b/c >> return doSomethingWith(_) >> >> It's basically "anonymous", it just uses a name that you don't care >> about. AFAIK, it can be immediately clobbered later if need be. >> Otherwise, the function shouldn't be anonymous. > > > Or even better: Python doesn't have anonymous functions. See http://boo.codehaus.org/Closures and the closures examples here: http://svn.boo.codehaus.org/trunk/tests/testcases/integration/ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: How To Reply
phil wrote: > I get a digest several times a day. > When I wish to respond to an item I must > cut and paste the item and the subject line. > Is there something to click on for a simple reply? > Using an old mozilla mail. > Thanks > Perfectly valid question. Add an nntp connection in mozilla mail (or thunderbird), and add the comp.lang.python group, or access the group via google groups. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: How to write this regular expression?
Peter Hansen wrote: > could ildg wrote: > >> I need a regular expression to check if a string matches it. > > > Why do you think you need a regular expression? > > If another approach that involved no regular expressions worked much > better, would you reject it for some reason? > > -Peter A regular expression will work fine for his problem. Just match the digits separated by underscores using a regular expression, then afterward check if the values are valid. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Fredrik Lundh
Fredrik Lundh wrote: > "D H" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >>>Why do you think you need a regular expression? >>> >>>If another approach that involved no regular expressions worked much >>>better, would you reject it for some reason? >> >>A regular expression will work fine for his problem. >>Just match the digits separated by underscores using a regular >>expression, then afterward check if the values are valid. > > > you forgot to mention Boo here, Doug. nice IronPython announcement, > btw. the Boo developers must be so proud of you. > > You never learn, do you Fredrik. I guess that explains why Boo will never be mentioned on the python daily site your pythonware business controls. Here are some of Fredrik's funnier crazy rants right here: http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/wlg/6291 Any that you perceive as competition and threatening to your consulting business really draws out your true nature. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Fredrik Lundh
Robert Kern wrote: > It's called Daily Python-URL not Daily Python-Like-Languages-URL. *That* > explains it. google for logix site:pythonware.com He's announced plenty non-python stuff that is of interest to python users, including plenty of marketing for his own software. > It's not like Pythonware is hiding its relationship. It hides any mention that Fredrik Lundh is behind it, which is deceitful when he posts any smidgeon of praise his software gets, not admitting he makes his income off support fees for that same software. He can try to smear me all he wants if he really thinks that will help his business. > Funny you should mention that article since I showed that Fredrik's > benchmarks were correctly done (if not diligently-reported) while Uche's > were wrong on both marks. > > http://www.oreillynet.com/cs/user/view/cs_msg/51158 Funny how you link to your own post out of context. You must have not listened to any of the other comments. > Oy, my head hurts. Take it off-list, both of you. The rest of us don't > care about your bickering. Yet again someone bitches about a thread right after they hypocritically throw their own little darts into the mix. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
