Re: How to manage python shebang on mixed systems?

2022-11-09 Thread Peter J. Holzer
On 2022-11-07 21:27:26 +, Chris Green wrote:
> Barry Scott  wrote:
> > env is always available as /usr/bin/env - I think its spec'ed in posix that 
> > way.
> > 
> > The only reason that things are in /bin are for systems that need a subset 
> > of
> > programs to boot the system to point it can mount /usr. env is not going to 
> > be
> > needed for that use case.
> > 
> Given that the problem system is running a very old Linux I'm not sure
> what chance there is that it's fully posix compliant.

It doesn't have to be fully posix compliant. Just reasonably posix
compliant.


> If using "#!/usr/bin/env python3" is a way of avoiding problems if
> python3 isn't in /usr/bin then why is it any better depending on env
> being in /usr/bin.

Because env is a standard unix utility which has been in the same place
for 30 years or so and is unlikely to be somewhere else or missing
completely. Python3 OTOH is not a standard unix utility. It may not be
there at all or it may be installed in /usr/local or /opt or even in the
user's home directory.

(Yes, of course "standard unix utilities" may be missing, too. For
example on an embedded system there might only be the bare minimum to
run the application. I even had a redhat system once which didn't have
grep installed.)

(Personally I avoid using env: I don't want my scripts to depend on the
PATH. But that's a different issue.)

hp

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|_|_) ||
| |   | [email protected] |-- Charles Stross, "Creative writing
__/   | http://www.hjp.at/ |   challenge!"


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Re: Problems with IDLE in Windows 8.1 and installer x86 Version 3.10.8

2022-11-09 Thread darkstone
Is there no one who can help?






Von: [email protected]
Gesendet: ‎Freitag‎, ‎4‎. ‎November‎ ‎2022 ‎15‎:‎10
An: Eryk Sun
Cc: [email protected]





Yes, there is always the message “modified successfull”, “installed 
sucessfully”, but IDLE does’t start. I tried it with the newer Version, too. 
Ist 3.11.0 for 32 bit, but it also doesn’t work. Do you have other suggetions, 
that it works?







Von: Eryk Sun
Gesendet: ‎Donnerstag‎, ‎3‎. ‎November‎ ‎2022 ‎22‎:‎50
An: [email protected]
Cc: [email protected]





On 11/3/22, [email protected]  wrote:
> Is there a reason, why it is not installed? Its the same check mark in the
> installer like IDLE…

Did you try what I suggested? Modify the installation to remove the
tkinter/IDLE component. Then modify it again to select the component
to be reinstalled. Also, try to repair the installation. This may
reset any DLLs or extension modules that were missing or that were the
wrong version.

Ignore the suggestion from Nithish to install tkinter via pip. tkinter
is part of the standard library and cannot be installed via pip. There
is no tkinter package on the Python package index (pypi.org).
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Re: Problems with IDLE in Windows 8.1 and installer x86 Version 3.10.8

2022-11-09 Thread Thomas Passin


On 11/9/2022 7:02 PM, [email protected] wrote:

Is there no one who can help?


Is there a reason why you tried to install a 32-bit version?  Most 
personal computers are 64-bit ones these days. Also, I don't remember if 
you are running Windows or not.


One problem for getting help from the list is that there have not been 
many details given. "Doesn't start" is not helpful.  Are there error 
messages displayed on the terminal?  How did you try to start it?  Does 
Python run at all?


A Python installation normally includes a batch file that launches idle. 
 This batch file may not be on your path for one reason or another.  If 
so, it would not run when you type "idle" at a command line.


So the first thing to do is to figure out if you have either the Python 
program idle.py or idle.pyw, or the batch file idle.bat (for Windows) 
On Linux Mint, when I typed "idle" at a terminal, I got this message:


"Command 'idle' not found, but can be installed with:

sudo apt install idle"

So that's how you would get it with that flavor of Linux.

I'm going to walk through what I would probably do if I had the same 
problem on Windows (I'm going to assume that you are running Windows). 
It's a little long to write out, but not really that hard.  Basically, 
there are only a few steps:


1. Find your Python installation;
2. Look in the installation location to see if the idle program is there;
3.  If it is, try to run it and note any error messages.

First you need to find out where your Python installation is located on 
your system disk. If you don't know, one way to find out is to run the 
following command in a console window:


where /R %USERPROFILE% python.exe

You may be surprised that there more several ones that you didn't 
expect, such as (on my computer):


C:\Users\tom\AppData\Local\Microsoft\WindowsApps\Microsoft.DesktopAppInstaller_8wekyb3d8bbwe\python.exe

It seems that Windows has its own Python installation; that's not the 
one you want.  You are looking for one that looks like this (with your 
own user name, of course, instead of mine):


C:\Users\tom\AppData\Local\Programs\Python\Python310\python.exe

Appdata\Local\Programs is where Python3 usually gets installed.  Now we 
know that I have Python 3.10 at 
C:\Users\tom\AppData\Local\Programs\Python.  You may be using a 
different version of Python; if so, just use that version instead.


Idle is normally installed in the directory tree under python.  Let's 
call the top of that tree %PYTH0N%.  On my system, as we see above, that 
is C:\Users\tom\AppData\Local\Programs\Python\Python310.  Idle should be at


%PYTHON%\Lib\idlelib

Open Windows explorer, and navigate to that directory. If you have that 
directory, then you should be able to run idle.  If it doesn't exist, 
That's a problem and needs to be fixed, probably by a fresh install of 
Python.  If it does, you will see the batch file idle.bat.  Double-click 
it, and idle should run.  If it does not, see below.


That's not a convenient way to run idle time after time.  Either you 
need to get idle on your path, or perhaps it will be available using the 
windows Start menu.  Check that out by tapping the Windows key, then 
typing "idle" (without the quotes).  It may be there.  But look closely, 
for it may be the idle associated with a different version of Python 
than the one you want to use.  For example, on my system I have Idle in 
the Start Menu, but only for Python 3.7 and not Python 3.10 which is the 
most recent version I have.


If you double-clicked on the idle batch file but it failed to run, then 
you need to get any error messages.  You need to run it from a console 
so you can see any output.  Open a console. you want to run idle using 
python and not pythonw (because pythonw will not open a window).  So in 
the console, type "python " (without quotes but with the space), then 
the path to the file.


The path to the file is a lot to type, and it's easier to just drag the 
icon for the file (remember, it's idle.py) into the console window. 
Press the  key and idle should run.  If it doesn't, note any 
error messages.  Then come back here and tell us what they were.


It's possible that the "where" program didn't find your python 
installation.  That would be because it's installed somewhere outside of 
your user tree, like Program Files.  You can look again in the entire 
disk (assuming it's on the c: drive, which is almost certainly so):


where /R c:\% python.exe


Von: [email protected]
Gesendet: ‎Freitag‎, ‎4‎. ‎November‎ ‎2022 ‎15‎:‎10
An: Eryk Sun
Cc: [email protected]





Yes, there is always the message “modified successfull”, “installed 
sucessfully”, but IDLE does’t start. I tried it with the newer Version, too. 
Ist 3.11.0 for 32 bit, but it also doesn’t work. Do you have other suggetions, 
that it works?







Von: Eryk Sun
Gesendet: ‎Donnerstag‎, ‎3‎. ‎November‎ ‎2022 ‎22‎:‎50
An: [email protected]
Cc: [email protected]





On 11/3/22, darks

Re: Problems with IDLE in Windows 8.1 and installer x86 Version 3.10.8

2022-11-09 Thread Dennis Lee Bieber
On Thu, 10 Nov 2022 00:02:44 +,  declaimed the
following:

>Is there no one who can help?
>

Your problem description isn't detailed enough to even guess what you
are finding incorrect.

If you are on Windows, once you've done an install, shove the installer
file off into some archive and don't touch it again unless you need to
reinstall or repair the existing install.


Do a search for idle.*

Windows PowerShell
Copyright (C) Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

Try the new cross-platform PowerShell https://aka.ms/pscore6

PS C:\Users\Wulfraed> Get-ChildItem -Path C:\Python38\ -Recurse -Name
-Filter "idle.*"
Lib\idlelib\idle.bat
Lib\idlelib\idle.py
Lib\idlelib\idle.pyw
Lib\idlelib\Icons\idle.ico
Lib\site-packages\pythonwin\pywin\idle
Lib\site-packages\pythonwin\pywin\IDLE.cfg
PS C:\Users\Wulfraed> type C:\Python38\Lib\idlelib\idle.bat
@echo off
rem Start IDLE using the appropriate Python interpreter
set CURRDIR=%~dp0
start "IDLE" "%CURRDIR%..\..\pythonw.exe" "%CURRDIR%idle.pyw" %1 %2 %3 %4
%5 %6 %7 %8 %9
PS C:\Users\Wulfraed> c:\python38\lib\idlelib\idle.bat

... opens something IDLE related (seems to be an interactive Python shell,
but a configuration item allows setting it to open an edit window instead).

Interesting -- I could have sworn there was a Python38 entry on the
Windows start menu, but I seem to have removed it. I don't use IDLE, and
that was the primary item in the Python38 entry. I normally use an old
version of PythonWin (fyi: I'm using an old version of the ActiveState
Python package). I also have PyCharm installed.


-- 
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[email protected]://wlfraed.microdiversity.freeddns.org/
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Re: Problems with IDLE in Windows 8.1 and installer x86 Version 3.10.8

2022-11-09 Thread Eryk Sun
On 11/9/22, [email protected]  wrote:
> Is there no one who can help?

If you can't run IDLE via `py -3.10-32 -m idlelib`, then something
isn't installed properly. You reported an error that IDLE fails to
load because importing tkinter fails. Did you try `import tkinter` in
the REPL? tkinter depends on the _tkinter extension module. Try
`import _tkinter`. If the latter fails because of a missing DLL
dependency, check the "DLLs" directory in the installation directory
for the TCL/Tk dependencies. They're "tcl86t.dll" and "tk86t.dll" for
Python 3.10. The installation directory should also have a "tcl"
directory, which should contain "tcl8.6" and "tk8.6" directories among
others, with many .tcl files.
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Re: Problems with IDLE in Windows 8.1 and installer x86 Version 3.10.8

2022-11-09 Thread Thomas Passin
Sorry about the typo at the end.  If you need to search the entire disk, 
use this command instead of the one I had in my last post:


where /R c:\ python.exe

On 11/9/2022 9:00 PM, Thomas Passin wrote:


On 11/9/2022 7:02 PM, [email protected] wrote:

Is there no one who can help?


Is there a reason why you tried to install a 32-bit version?  Most 
personal computers are 64-bit ones these days. Also, I don't remember if 
you are running Windows or not.


One problem for getting help from the list is that there have not been 
many details given. "Doesn't start" is not helpful.  Are there error 
messages displayed on the terminal?  How did you try to start it?  Does 
Python run at all?


A Python installation normally includes a batch file that launches idle. 
  This batch file may not be on your path for one reason or another.  If 
so, it would not run when you type "idle" at a command line.


So the first thing to do is to figure out if you have either the Python 
program idle.py or idle.pyw, or the batch file idle.bat (for Windows) On 
Linux Mint, when I typed "idle" at a terminal, I got this message:


"Command 'idle' not found, but can be installed with:

sudo apt install idle"

So that's how you would get it with that flavor of Linux.

I'm going to walk through what I would probably do if I had the same 
problem on Windows (I'm going to assume that you are running Windows). 
It's a little long to write out, but not really that hard.  Basically, 
there are only a few steps:


1. Find your Python installation;
2. Look in the installation location to see if the idle program is there;
3.  If it is, try to run it and note any error messages.

First you need to find out where your Python installation is located on 
your system disk. If you don't know, one way to find out is to run the 
following command in a console window:


where /R %USERPROFILE% python.exe

You may be surprised that there more several ones that you didn't 
expect, such as (on my computer):


C:\Users\tom\AppData\Local\Microsoft\WindowsApps\Microsoft.DesktopAppInstaller_8wekyb3d8bbwe\python.exe

It seems that Windows has its own Python installation; that's not the 
one you want.  You are looking for one that looks like this (with your 
own user name, of course, instead of mine):


C:\Users\tom\AppData\Local\Programs\Python\Python310\python.exe

Appdata\Local\Programs is where Python3 usually gets installed.  Now we 
know that I have Python 3.10 at 
C:\Users\tom\AppData\Local\Programs\Python.  You may be using a 
different version of Python; if so, just use that version instead.


Idle is normally installed in the directory tree under python.  Let's 
call the top of that tree %PYTH0N%.  On my system, as we see above, that 
is C:\Users\tom\AppData\Local\Programs\Python\Python310.  Idle should be at


%PYTHON%\Lib\idlelib

Open Windows explorer, and navigate to that directory. If you have that 
directory, then you should be able to run idle.  If it doesn't exist, 
That's a problem and needs to be fixed, probably by a fresh install of 
Python.  If it does, you will see the batch file idle.bat.  Double-click 
it, and idle should run.  If it does not, see below.


That's not a convenient way to run idle time after time.  Either you 
need to get idle on your path, or perhaps it will be available using the 
windows Start menu.  Check that out by tapping the Windows key, then 
typing "idle" (without the quotes).  It may be there.  But look closely, 
for it may be the idle associated with a different version of Python 
than the one you want to use.  For example, on my system I have Idle in 
the Start Menu, but only for Python 3.7 and not Python 3.10 which is the 
most recent version I have.


If you double-clicked on the idle batch file but it failed to run, then 
you need to get any error messages.  You need to run it from a console 
so you can see any output.  Open a console. you want to run idle using 
python and not pythonw (because pythonw will not open a window).  So in 
the console, type "python " (without quotes but with the space), then 
the path to the file.


The path to the file is a lot to type, and it's easier to just drag the 
icon for the file (remember, it's idle.py) into the console window. 
Press the  key and idle should run.  If it doesn't, note any 
error messages.  Then come back here and tell us what they were.


It's possible that the "where" program didn't find your python 
installation.  That would be because it's installed somewhere outside of 
your user tree, like Program Files.  You can look again in the entire 
disk (assuming it's on the c: drive, which is almost certainly so):


where /R c:\% python.exe


Von: [email protected]
Gesendet: ‎Freitag‎, ‎4‎. ‎November‎ ‎2022 ‎15‎:‎10
An: Eryk Sun
Cc: [email protected]





Yes, there is always the message “modified successfull”, “installed 
sucessfully”, but IDLE does’t start. I tried it with the newer 
Version, too. Ist 3.11.0 for 32 bit, but it also doesn’t