Re: TechRepublicDEVELOPERCXO JPMorgan's Athena has 35 million lines of Python code, and won't be updated to Python 3 in time

[Larry Martell]

On Fri, Sep 13, 2019 at 1:37 PM Skip Montanaro 
wrote:

> >
> https://www.techrepublic.com/google-amp/article/jpmorgans-athena-has-35-million-lines-of-python-code-and-wont-be-updated-to-python-3-in-time/
>
> I doubt this is unusual, and presume JP Morgan is big enough to handle
> the change of status, either by managing security releases in-house or
> relying on third-party releases (say, Anaconda). When I retired from
> Citadel recently, most Python was still 2.7 (though the group I worked
> in was well on the way to converting to 3.x, and no new applications
> were written against 2.7). Bank of America has an enterprise-wide
> system called Quartz. I wouldn't be surprised if it was still running
> Python 2.7 (though I don't know for sure).



Yes Quartz is 2.7. As I’ve said before here, I know a lot of companies
running large apps in 2.7 and they have no intention of moving to 3.

>
>
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Re: TechRepublicDEVELOPERCXO JPMorgan's Athena has 35 million lines of Python code, and won't be updated to Python 3 in time

[o1bigtenor]

On Sat, Sep 14, 2019 at 3:39 AM Larry Martell  wrote:
>
> On Fri, Sep 13, 2019 at 1:37 PM Skip Montanaro 
> wrote:
>
> > >
> > https://www.techrepublic.com/google-amp/article/jpmorgans-athena-has-35-million-lines-of-python-code-and-wont-be-updated-to-python-3-in-time/
> >
> > I doubt this is unusual, and presume JP Morgan is big enough to handle
> > the change of status, either by managing security releases in-house or
> > relying on third-party releases (say, Anaconda). When I retired from
> > Citadel recently, most Python was still 2.7 (though the group I worked
> > in was well on the way to converting to 3.x, and no new applications
> > were written against 2.7). Bank of America has an enterprise-wide
> > system called Quartz. I wouldn't be surprised if it was still running
> > Python 2.7 (though I don't know for sure).
>
>
>
> Yes Quartz is 2.7. As I’ve said before here, I know a lot of companies
> running large apps in 2.7 and they have no intention of moving to 3.
>
Likely quite true - - - - - until a security flaw connected to the
older version
is exploited - - - - (not saying its likely) - - - then watch for the
then declared
crucial to do it right now scramble.

Regards
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Re: TechRepublicDEVELOPERCXO JPMorgan's Athena has 35 million lines of Python code, and won't be updated to Python 3 in time

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 14 September 2019 04:37:14 Larry Martell wrote:

> On Fri, Sep 13, 2019 at 1:37 PM Skip Montanaro
> 
>
> wrote:
> > https://www.techrepublic.com/google-amp/article/jpmorgans-athena-has
> >-35-million-lines-of-python-code-and-wont-be-updated-to-python-3-in-t
> >ime/
> >
> > I doubt this is unusual, and presume JP Morgan is big enough to
> > handle the change of status, either by managing security releases
> > in-house or relying on third-party releases (say, Anaconda). When I
> > retired from Citadel recently, most Python was still 2.7 (though the
> > group I worked in was well on the way to converting to 3.x, and no
> > new applications were written against 2.7). Bank of America has an
> > enterprise-wide system called Quartz. I wouldn't be surprised if it
> > was still running Python 2.7 (though I don't know for sure).
>
> Yes Quartz is 2.7. As I’ve said before here, I know a lot of companies
> running large apps in 2.7 and they have no intention of moving to 3.

And I, Larry, have little doubt that the hackers have a hole into a 2.7 
install, all squirreled away, and waiting until 2.7 security support 
goes away. It's the nature of the thing.

They will get hacked.  Its like asking if concrete will crack as you are 
watching it being poured, will is the wrong question, when is far more 
correct.

And it will cost them trillions in the long haul. The courts, 
adjudicating damages, will not be kind to the foot dragger's who think 
they are saving money.  History sure seems to be pointing in that 
direction recently.

Its a puzzle to me, why so-called sane MBA's cannot understand that the 
best defense is spending money on the offense by updateing their 
in-house operating code. Or the OS under it.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 
-- 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: TechRepublicDEVELOPERCXO JPMorgan's Athena has 35 million lines of Python code, and won't be updated to Python 3 in time

[Terry Reedy]

On 9/14/2019 4:37 AM, Larry Martell wrote:


On Fri, Sep 13, 2019 at 1:37 PM Skip Montanaro 
wrote:

https://www.techrepublic.com/google-amp/article/jpmorgans-athena-has-35-million-lines-of-python-code-and-wont-be-updated-to-python-3-in-time/

I doubt this is unusual, and presume JP Morgan is big enough to handle
the change of status, either by managing security releases in-house or
relying on third-party releases (say, Anaconda). When I retired from
Citadel recently, most Python was still 2.7 (though the group I worked
in was well on the way to converting to 3.x, and no new applications
were written against 2.7). Bank of America has an enterprise-wide
system called Quartz. I wouldn't be surprised if it was still running
Python 2.7 (though I don't know for sure).



Yes Quartz is 2.7. As I’ve said before here, I know a lot of companies
running large apps in 2.7 and they have no intention of moving to 3.


This is not JPMorgan.  From the article "JPMorgan's roadmap puts "most 
strategic components" compatible with Python 3 by the end of Q1 
2020—that is, three months after the end of security patches—with "all 
legacy Python 2.7 components" planned for compatibility with Python 3 by 
Q4 2020."  So they must be working on it now.


The 'end of Q1 2020' is about when the final release, 2.7.18, will be 
and Q3 2020 is about when the next release, 2.7.19 would be if we did 
not stop free support.


As far as core developers are concerned, risk judgements are the 
business of private businesses and some of us anticipate 2.7 being used 
for at least another decade.  We *have* nudged some library developers a 
bit, especially in the scientific stack, especially numpy and scipy,to 
release 3.x versions so that new code can be written in 3.x.


--
Terry Jan Reedy


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Re: TechRepublicDEVELOPERCXO JPMorgan's Athena has 35 million lines of Python code, and won't be updated to Python 3 in time

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 14 September 2019 11:46:50 Terry Reedy wrote:

> On 9/14/2019 4:37 AM, Larry Martell wrote:
> > On Fri, Sep 13, 2019 at 1:37 PM Skip Montanaro
> > 
> >
> > wrote:
> >> https://www.techrepublic.com/google-amp/article/jpmorgans-athena-ha
> >>s-35-million-lines-of-python-code-and-wont-be-updated-to-python-3-in
> >>-time/
> >>
> >> I doubt this is unusual, and presume JP Morgan is big enough to
> >> handle the change of status, either by managing security releases
> >> in-house or relying on third-party releases (say, Anaconda). When I
> >> retired from Citadel recently, most Python was still 2.7 (though
> >> the group I worked in was well on the way to converting to 3.x, and
> >> no new applications were written against 2.7). Bank of America has
> >> an enterprise-wide system called Quartz. I wouldn't be surprised if
> >> it was still running Python 2.7 (though I don't know for sure).
> >
> > Yes Quartz is 2.7. As I’ve said before here, I know a lot of
> > companies running large apps in 2.7 and they have no intention of
> > moving to 3.
>
> This is not JPMorgan.  From the article "JPMorgan's roadmap puts "most
> strategic components" compatible with Python 3 by the end of Q1
> 2020—that is, three months after the end of security patches—with "all
> legacy Python 2.7 components" planned for compatibility with Python 3
> by Q4 2020."  So they must be working on it now.
>
> The 'end of Q1 2020' is about when the final release, 2.7.18, will be
> and Q3 2020 is about when the next release, 2.7.19 would be if we did
> not stop free support.
>
> As far as core developers are concerned, risk judgements are the
> business of private businesses and some of us anticipate 2.7 being
> used for at least another decade.  We *have* nudged some library
> developers a bit, especially in the scientific stack, especially numpy
> and scipy,to release 3.x versions so that new code can be written in
> 3.x.
>
> --
> Terry Jan Reedy

I don't have an oar in this water, Terry, other than my bank no doubt has 
some python in its system, and its track record of bugs in the interface 
I'm being forced to use, which just Wednesday resulted in my calling one 
to their attention but I'd say that nudge needs to be set in a crontab, 
to repeat that nudge often enough to be effective.  I suspect what I 
experienced Wednesday was python3 growing pains, which the fact that 
they are working on it ahead of time, is encouraging.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 
-- 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

What about idea of making a "Pythonic Lisp"...i.e. a Lisp that more closely resembles the syntax of Python?

[Christian Seberino]

Python is my goto main language.  However, sometimes I'm tempted to
play with a Lisp like language just for fun.

Clojure looks pretty solid but its syntax is different than Python's.

Since Lisp's make it so easy to modify the language, what about the idea
of developing a few macros to make a modified Clojure dialect that
more closely matched Python keywords and so was more comfy for Pythonistas?

Chris
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Re: What about idea of making a "Pythonic Lisp"...i.e. a Lisp that more closely resembles the syntax of Python?

[Louis Valence]

Christian Seberino  writes:

> Python is my goto main language.  However, sometimes I'm tempted to
> play with a Lisp like language just for fun.
>
> Clojure looks pretty solid but its syntax is different than Python's.
>
> Since Lisp's make it so easy to modify the language, what about the idea
> of developing a few macros to make a modified Clojure dialect that
> more closely matched Python keywords and so was more comfy for Pythonistas?

I had to read this twice.  It confused the hell out of me.  Anyhow, I
suppose you should take a look at

  https://github.com/hylang/hy

Enjoy!
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Document Entire Apps

[Sinardy Gmail]

Hi Python Gurus,

I am in earlier stage in my apps development,

What tools or how is the Python community standard good practice in documenting 
the apps especially the packages that import another packages.

I understand that we can use pydoc to document procedures how about the 
relationship between packages and dependencies ?

Thanks
Sin
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