Re: The "loop and a half"
On Sun, 8 Oct 2017 02:06 am, bartc wrote: >> On 2017-10-07, bartc wrote: >> >>> Interactive Python requires quit() or exit(), complete with parentheses. ...^ >> Nonsense. On Unix you can just press ctrl-D (or whatever you have >> configured as eof) at the command prompt. On windows, it's Ctrl-Z >> . > > Steve spoke about the 'usual quit/exit/bye' commands. As well as Ctrl-D, EOF, which is a standard way to exit most Unix programs. (Or as close as anything in Unix comes to a standard UI.) > If you type 'quit' in interactive Python, then it says: > >Use quit() or Ctrl-Z plus Return to exit > > Same for exit. So in Python, IF you want to use quit or exit to > terminate, you have to use quit() or exit() instead. > > So please explain how what I wrote was nonsense. Do you still believe that quit/exit is REQUIRED? To be pedantic, we have at least seven ways: - EOF (Ctrl-D on Unix, Ctrl-Z ENTER on Windows); - calling quit() or exit(); - raise SystemExit; - call sys.exit() - call os._exit(); - call os.abort(); - write your own custom quitter object that exits on simply being printed, e.g.: class Bye: def __repr__(self): sys.exit(0) bye = Bye() Four of these are intended for programmatic use, but they work interactively as well. At least two of them shouldn't be used unless you know what you are doing (os._exit and os.abort). >>> Unless you've redefined quit and exit as something else, then you have >>> to crash out by other means.) >> >> Admit it, you're just trolling. > > FFS, NOW what's wrong? "Crash out". > IF you DO redefine those names, then you DO have to use other means to > terminate. I happen to call those means 'crashing out', because it's > like yanking the plug rather than using the on/off switch. os._exit and os.abort (especially the second) could legitimately be described as "crashing out". The others, not within a million miles of it. > Especially on > Windows where the usual Ctrl C doesn't work, so you resort to Ctrl-Break > will which actually abort it. Ctrl Z is uncommon. Thousands of Python programmers on Windows successfully learned to use Ctrl-Z ENTER back in the days of Python 1.5, before quit/exit were added as a convenience for beginners, and many of them probably still use it. Yet again you assume that because YOU don't do something, nobody else in the world could possibly do it. > I'm getting fed up with this thread now. This thread would be a lot less frustrating if you would enter into it with a spirit of open-minded enquiry rather than an overbearing sense of superiority that anything others do that you don't must be worthless. -- Steve “Cheer up,” they said, “things could be worse.” So I cheered up, and sure enough, things got worse. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: django project avoid reload page where work algorithm
> You mentioned email, so why not just ask for an email address to which > you will send the result? i have user email from register i need to do all automate,how to use celery for this ? -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: The "loop and a half"
On 08/10/2017 10:12, Steve D'Aprano wrote: On Sun, 8 Oct 2017 02:06 am, bartc wrote: Thousands of Python programmers on Windows successfully learned to use Ctrl-Z ENTER back in the days of Python 1.5, before quit/exit were added as a convenience for beginners, and many of them probably still use it. Actually I NEVER normally use Python in interactive mode. Only to test how it works interactively. When I use Python, it's from my IDE. I'm getting fed up with this thread now. This thread would be a lot less frustrating if you would enter into it with a spirit of open-minded enquiry rather than an overbearing sense of superiority that anything others do that you don't must be worthless. Frustrating for whom? It seems to me that it's pretty much everyone here who has an overbearing sense of superiority in that everything that Unix or Linux does is a million times better than anything else. Even with things like building applications (eg. trying to build CPython from sources), they are designed from the ground up to be inextricably linked to Linux scripts, utilities, makefiles, installation schemes, or designed to work with the Linux-centric gcc C compiler. Then when they don't work as well anywhere else, it's because Linux is so much better! No, it's because they were non-portably designed around Linux and therefore designed NOT to work well anywhere else. It is also slightly frustrating for me when I see how Python is developing, with layer after layer and library after library piled on to achieve some fantastically complicated solution (one of 48 different ones to choose from) to replicate some basic functionality that could have been done in 5 minutes if GvR had decided to add it right at the start. But this is a Python group and I have to restrain myself from such comments to avoid getting lynched. There is nothing wrong with Python! -- bartc -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: The "loop and a half"
bartc : > It seems to me that it's pretty much everyone here who has an > overbearing sense of superiority in that everything that Unix or Linux > does is a million times better than anything else. People's opinions don't matter here. Point is, if you are writing software for Linux, you need to do it according to (or at least understanding) the general Linux system requirements. I don't do Windows programming, but if I did, I'd try to write the programs in the way Windows programs are intended to be written. Similarly with other operating systems. If you wrote your own OS, you'd get to dictate the proper philosophy for application programming. > Even with things like building applications (eg. trying to build > CPython from sources), they are designed from the ground up to be > inextricably linked to Linux scripts, utilities, makefiles, > installation schemes, or designed to work with the Linux-centric gcc C > compiler. Then when they don't work as well anywhere else, it's > because Linux is so much better! No, it's because they were > non-portably designed around Linux and therefore designed NOT to work > well anywhere else. Ok. Clearly Python has its roots in Linux. > It is also slightly frustrating for me when I see how Python is > developing, with layer after layer and library after library piled on > to achieve some fantastically complicated solution (one of 48 > different ones to choose from) to replicate some basic functionality > that could have been done in 5 minutes if GvR had decided to add it > right at the start. Maybe. I don't know if that would count as constructive criticism, though, because you can't change your past. > But this is a Python group and I have to restrain myself from such > comments to avoid getting lynched. There is nothing wrong with Python! Once you have expressed your opinion and frustration, you don't have to repeat it at every turn. Do you have a concrete enhancement proposal? Or is Python a lost cause for you? Marko -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: The "loop and a half"
On 8 October 2017 at 11:36, bartc wrote: > Frustrating for whom? Well, me as well as Steve, if we're counting votes for who finds your attitude frustrating... > It seems to me that it's pretty much everyone here who has an overbearing > sense of superiority in that everything that Unix or Linux does is a million > times better than anything else. As a Windows user, I would like to make it clear that your views don't in any way represent me. > Even with things like building applications (eg. trying to build CPython > from sources), they are designed from the ground up to be inextricably > linked to Linux scripts, utilities, makefiles, installation schemes, or > designed to work with the Linux-centric gcc C compiler. Then when they don't > work as well anywhere else, it's because Linux is so much better! No, it's > because they were non-portably designed around Linux and therefore designed > NOT to work well anywhere else. When developing scripts, applications, or any form of code, I use good ideas from anywhere, as I doubt that I have the monopoly on knowing the perfect way to write code. Some of those good ideas come from Unix-based systems. That's not "because Linux is so much better", it's because someone other than me had a good idea, and I acknowledge the fact. Paul -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: "comprehend" into a single value
On 10/8/17 1:00 AM, Andrew Z wrote:
and how about adding "IF" into the mix ?
as in :
a=0
dict= {10: ['a',1,'c'], 20: ['d',2,'f']}
for i in dict:
p+= 10 if dict[i][1] in [1,2,3,4,5] else 0
can i "squish" "for" and "if" together ? or will it be too perl-ish ?
sum(10 for v in dict.values() if v[1] in [1,2,3,4,5])
or:
sum((10 if v[1] in [1,2,3,4,5] else 0) for v in dict.values())
(in case you actually need something other than 0.)
Also, note that if your list of five values is actually much longer than
five, then you want a set:
sum((10 if v[1] in {1,2,3,4,5} else 0) for v in dict.values())
--Ned.
On Sun, Oct 8, 2017 at 12:37 AM, Andrew Z wrote:
Nathan, Bob - on the money. Thank you !
On Sat, Oct 7, 2017 at 11:30 PM, bob gailer wrote:
On 10/7/2017 11:17 PM, Nathan Hilterbrand wrote:
dict= {10: ['a',1,'c'], 20: ['d',2,'f']}
p = sum([dict[i][1] for i in dict])
Something like that?
Ah, but that's 2 lines.
sum(val[1] for val in {10: ['a',1,'c'], 20: ['d',2,'f']}.values())
On Sat, Oct 7, 2017 at 11:07 PM, Andrew Z wrote:
Hello,
i wonder how can i accomplish the following as a one liner:
dict= {10: ['a',1,'c'], 20: ['d',2,'f']}
p = 0
for i in dict:
p += dict[i][1]
Thank you
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Re: The "loop and a half"
On Sun, Oct 8, 2017 at 10:22 PM, Paul Moore wrote: > On 8 October 2017 at 11:36, bartc wrote: >> Even with things like building applications (eg. trying to build CPython >> from sources), they are designed from the ground up to be inextricably >> linked to Linux scripts, utilities, makefiles, installation schemes, or >> designed to work with the Linux-centric gcc C compiler. Then when they don't >> work as well anywhere else, it's because Linux is so much better! No, it's >> because they were non-portably designed around Linux and therefore designed >> NOT to work well anywhere else. > > When developing scripts, applications, or any form of code, I use good > ideas from anywhere, as I doubt that I have the monopoly on knowing > the perfect way to write code. Some of those good ideas come from > Unix-based systems. That's not "because Linux is so much better", it's > because someone other than me had a good idea, and I acknowledge the > fact. It's also worth noting that "Linux" and "Unix" are not synonymous, and that a lot of these ideas have come from BSD, or some other OS. In fact, a good few of the ideas being pooh-poohed in this thread have been around longer than Linux has. The idea that most tools should work with stdin and stdout (while sending errors to stderr) dates back *at least* to the earliest Unix, and quite possibly earlier. So they're not "because Linux is so much better" - they're "because Unix has worked this way for longer than Windows or Linux or Mac OS has been around". And by "worked", I don't just mean that this is how it is - I also mean that it *works*, it is useful, it is a viable solution to real-world problems. ChrisA -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: The "loop and a half"
On 07/10/2017 15:40, Steve D'Aprano wrote: On Sat, 7 Oct 2017 11:54 pm, bartc wrote: So my programs that use Escape on Windows needed to use Escape Escape on Linux to get around that. Or you could just follow the expected Unix interface instead of inventing your own. Your job is to port an editor that people have been using for 30 years to Linux. The first thing you do is to change all the commands and shortcuts to match what is typical on Linux? So that no-one who was familiar with it as it was can actually use it? Back in the days when I used a Mac (long before OS X), I used to hate it when Windows developers would port their software to Mac. With the exception of a few big software companies like Microsoft, who had actual Mac teams, they would do what you do: completely ignore the Apple UI guidelines and port their unfamiliar and arbitrary user interfaces to the Mac software, making it essentially unusable. What is it with those who write OSes in that they have to tell everyone how to run the show? An OS's job is to run programs and do whatever the program requests. BTW, how did the Apple UI guidelines come about; where they copying existing practice, or did /they/ decide to come up with something new and incompatible with anything else? And if the former, then you ask the same question of Xerox or whoever. Just look at any interactive page on the web, they all work differently. People are used to it. And it allows innovation. -- bartc -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: The "loop and a half"
On Sun, Oct 8, 2017 at 10:46 PM, bartc wrote: > On 07/10/2017 15:40, Steve D'Aprano wrote: >> >> On Sat, 7 Oct 2017 11:54 pm, bartc wrote: >> >>> So my programs that use Escape on Windows needed >>> to use Escape Escape on Linux to get around that. >> >> >> >> Or you could just follow the expected Unix interface instead of inventing >> your >> own. > > > Your job is to port an editor that people have been using for 30 years to > Linux. The first thing you do is to change all the commands and shortcuts to > match what is typical on Linux? So that no-one who was familiar with it as > it was can actually use it? Is it graphical? Does it use any well-known toolkit? If so, then yeah, the first thing - and the automatic thing - is that it will respond to the host platform's keys and so on. Which is more important: for someone familiar with Program X on Windows to be able to use Program X on Linux, or for every GUI program on my computer to respond to Ctrl-Insert by copying something to the clipboard? Adobe picked the former for earlier versions of Acrobat Reader, and they suck because of it. (I don't know if they've fixed that since, as I threw them over years ago.) >> Back in the days when I used a Mac (long before OS X), I used to hate it >> when >> Windows developers would port their software to Mac. With the exception of >> a >> few big software companies like Microsoft, who had actual Mac teams, they >> would do what you do: completely ignore the Apple UI guidelines and port >> their unfamiliar and arbitrary user interfaces to the Mac software, making >> it >> essentially unusable. > > > What is it with those who write OSes in that they have to tell everyone how > to run the show? An OS's job is to run programs and do whatever the program > requests. An OS's job is to let the human interface with the computer. Same human, same interface. > BTW, how did the Apple UI guidelines come about; where they copying existing > practice, or did /they/ decide to come up with something new and > incompatible with anything else? And if the former, then you ask the same > question of Xerox or whoever. I don't know about those specifically, but a lot of what I see today in Linux is derived from the CUA guidelines [1]. They unified a bunch of disparate UI controls into what we now expect to see everywhere. Does Alt-F4 close a program on your system? Does it close pretty much any program? You can thank CUA for that. Or would you prefer that every program have its own unique way of being closed? Oh, and if you say "click on the X in the corner", well, common UI guidelines is what gave us those, too. Or would you prefer every program to put a close button in a different place? > Just look at any interactive page on the web, they all work differently. > People are used to it. And it allows innovation. No, they don't all work differently. They actually all work largely the same way, because their fundamental controls are provided by the host platform (in this case, the web browser). And where they *don't* all work the same way (date pickers, ugh ugh ugh), they're a pain in the behind. Maybe it's just that you're not old enough to have worked with text editors that predate CUA? That might explain your confusion about what should be standardized. ChrisA remembers WordStar but none of its bindings, and PC-Type and most of its command keys [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_Common_User_Access -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: The "loop and a half"
bartc wrote: Then you might have 'sort' for the non-interactive version, and 'isort' or whatever for the interactive. It's pretty rare that you'd want to use 'sort' interactively, which is why your hypothetical 'isort' doesn't exist. However, it *is* common to use it as part of a pipeline, which is why it defaults to reading from stdin. A consequence of that is that if you run it on its own, without any arguments, it stops and waits for input from the terminal. But it's not specifically designed to be used that way, so it doesn't bother providing any prompts in that situation. Except you simply wouldn't use an interactive version of any program that reads an arbitrary long list of uninterrupted data, no matter how the ending is indicated. You'd use a text editor, enter the lines at your leisure, go back and forth to check and edit as needed, THEN you would submit that file to 'sort'. As an actual input file. In which case it won't 'hang', and you will be happy. :-) A program like 'python' might fit the bill too. Here, you can give it the name of a file, OR say nothing, and it will take input from stdin. Funnily enough, you now get a message, and a prompt. And when entering multiple lines of code, you get a prompt before each line. You can also terminate the sequence by entering a blank line. Python goes to all that trouble because it's designed to be used interactively, i.e. you can have a true conversation with it. You can't really have a conversation with 'sort', since it needs all the input before it can do anything. -- Greg -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
OT again sorry [Re: Interactive scripts (back on topic for once) [was Re: The "loop and a half"]]
Steve D'Aprano wrote: You don't think multiple columns in interactive mode is useful? The issue is not whether single vs. multi column mode is better, but whether it should automatically switch based on what kind of thing is connected to stdin. Personally I find that behavour surprising and would be happy for it to use multi-column always unless explicitly told otherwise, but it's not a big issue. The thing that *really* annoys me is Linux insisting on colourising the output to a tty, since it invariably seems to pick an undreadable colour scheme. And the case-insensitive sorting... there's a reason Makefile starts with a capital M, dammit! -- Greg -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: The "loop and a half"
bartc wrote: This preprocesses the code and shows the result. Typical programs will have many thousands of lines of output, but it just dumps it to the console. You /have/ to use '>' to use it practically (Windows doesn't really have a working '|' system.) This may be why you're having trouble grokking unix. The primary purpose of the unix convention of reading from stdin and writing to stdout by default is to make it easy to use programs in pipelines. If you haven't experienced that way of working, you may not appreciate how useful it can be. BTW if I try: > gcc I agree that the C compiler is unusual in that respect. The reason may be that it relies on filename suffixes to figure out what to do with its inputs: if it's .c, compile it; if it's .s, assemble it; if it's .o, link it; etc. It wouldn't know what to do with something fed into stdin. There may be ways to tell it, though. Stack Overflow suggests: flex -t lexer.l | gcc -x c -c -o lexer.o - -- Greg -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: The "loop and a half"
On 08/10/2017 12:22, Paul Moore wrote: When developing scripts, applications, or any form of code, I use good ideas from anywhere, as I doubt that I have the monopoly on knowing the perfect way to write code. Some of those good ideas come from Unix-based systems. That's not "because Linux is so much better", it's because someone other than me had a good idea, and I acknowledge the fact. When developing code I use whatever tools and techniques I like. But if I want to someone else to build one of my applications, I make it as easy as possible for them, even to to the extent of translating it to a language that they will be able to build. Here, for example, is a C compiler (which, actually, is not written in C, but is presented as a C program): www.bcas.freeuk.com/mcc64.c One file only. But it is only for 64 bits. Build on Windows or Linux (for Linux it is 'gcc -m64 mcc64.c -omcc -lm'). Runs on either (but generates code for win64 ABI). Another: www.bcas.freeuk.com/pcc64.c, a byte-code interpreter, builds and runs on either OS, one file. That needs a separate byte-code compiler, www.bcas.freeuk.com/qcc64.c. Again, one file. Again, runs on either OS. And I believe each file works with any C compiler. (Actually, I just found it had a dependency on a Windows time function; I've removed that temporarily for this upload.) See the pattern here? Simplicity not complexity. Consideration for others by making life easier.) -- bartc -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Interactive scripts (back on topic for once) [was Re: The "loop and a half"]
Chris Angelico wrote: Hmm, but usually I would expect them still to HAVE those streams, they're just connected to /dev/null or something. I don't think they would actually fail to exist, would they? On unix there's nothing to stop you launching a process with fds 0, 1 and 2 all closed. It would be a very unusual thing to do, but not impossible. I expect it's possible on Windows as well. -- Greg -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: The "loop and a half"
Peter J. Holzer wrote: In any case, that -E writes to stdout and -S to file is an inconsistency which looks more like a historical accident than a planned feature to me. A possible reason is that with -S there is an obvious choice for the output file name, i.e. .s, but there is no conventional way of naming a preprocessed C source file, so it's best to make the user specify it. -- Greg -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: The "loop and a half"
bartc wrote: Interactive Python requires quit() or exit(), complete with parentheses. Er, what? Ctrl-D works fine for me to exit Python when not in the midst of entering a block. -- Greg -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: The "loop and a half"
Chris Angelico wrote: But personally, I'd have looked for a "print to PS" of some sort, using a gigantic 'page' size, and then convert the PS to PNG. I don't know for certain that I can do the latter conversion, It would be easy on MacOSX. Anything you can print can be sent to a PDF file, and Preview lets you save any page from a PDF file as an image in your format of choice. -- Greg -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: OT again sorry [Re: Interactive scripts (back on topic for once) [was Re: The "loop and a half"]]
Gregory Ewing writes: > The thing that *really* annoys me is Linux insisting on colourising > the output to a tty, since it invariably seems to pick an undreadable > colour scheme. And the case-insensitive sorting... there's a reason > Makefile starts with a capital M, dammit! As most things, that's configurable, for example I have the following in one of my teenager .bashxxx scripts: # Old-school ordering, upcase letters before lowercase export LC_COLLATE=C # Format dates accordingly to the language export TIME_STYLE=locale As others said already, it's difficult-to-impossible to get a one-size-fits-all configuration that satisfies everybody (where the cardinality of "everybody" exceeds 1, of course). ciao, lele. -- nickname: Lele Gaifax | Quando vivrò di quello che ho pensato ieri real: Emanuele Gaifas | comincerò ad aver paura di chi mi copia. [email protected] | -- Fortunato Depero, 1929. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: django project avoid reload page where work algorithm
On 2017-10-08 11:27, Xristos Xristoou wrote: You mentioned email, so why not just ask for an email address to which you will send the result? i have user email from register i need to do all automate,how to use celery for this ? You can use the smtplib module to send an email. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: The "loop and a half"
On Sun, Oct 8, 2017 at 10:12 AM, Steve D'Aprano
wrote:
> On Sun, 8 Oct 2017 02:06 am, bartc wrote:
>
>> Especially on
>> Windows where the usual Ctrl C doesn't work, so you resort to Ctrl-Break
>> will which actually abort it. Ctrl Z is uncommon.
>
> Thousands of Python programmers on Windows successfully learned to use Ctrl-Z
> ENTER back in the days of Python 1.5, before quit/exit were added as a
> convenience for beginners, and many of them probably still use it.
Using Ctrl+Z (0x1A) isn't specific to Python. The Windows CRT's
text-mode I/O inherits this from MS-DOS, which took it from CP/M. It's
obvious in Python 2:
>>> open('test.txt', 'w').write('123\x1a456')
>>> open('test.txt', 'r').read()
'123'
>>> open('test.txt', 'rb').read()
'123\x1a456'
This has been misreported as a bug more than once.
Python 3 opens CRT file descriptors in binary mode. Its text mode
(TextIOWraper) doesn't implement the legacy Ctrl+Z behavior. However,
Ctrl+Z at the start of a line is manually supported in the REPL and
raw _WindowsConsoleIO.
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Re: django project avoid reload page where work algorithm
> You can use the smtplib module to send an email. ok but how to avoid pong reload on page ?can you help me ? -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: The "loop and a half"
On 08/10/2017 13:05, Chris Angelico wrote: On Sun, Oct 8, 2017 at 10:46 PM, bartc wrote: Just look at any interactive page on the web, they all work differently. People are used to it. And it allows innovation. Maybe it's just that you're not old enough to have worked with text editors that predate CUA? That might explain your confusion about what should be standardized. I first used line editors in the 1970s. When I started writing graphics apps, graphics was very new, at least in the low-end business computer world (the one that was soon dominated by the IBM PC). So there was little existing practice to copy from. (And actually, I had my hands full either designing the graphics boards, or writing the drivers, graphics libraries, providing the fonts and so on (plus the languages), all the underlying stuff needed to make it all work.) However as graphics became more mainstream then yes I did adopt some commonly expected styles (menubars for example). As for Alt-F4, if that generates a WM_CLOSE message for example, then I would be obliged to deal with it. -- bartc -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: django project avoid reload page where work algorithm
On 2017-10-08 15:27, Xristos Xristoou wrote: You can use the smtplib module to send an email. ok but how to avoid pong reload on page ?can you help me ? Do you mean "long reload"? If you have the user's email address from when they registered, you could have the user log in to get the results. If the user has closed the window, or the session has expired, well they'd have to log in again. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: The "loop and a half"
On 2017-10-07 13:19, Steve D'Aprano wrote: > On Sat, 7 Oct 2017 11:06 pm, bartc wrote: >> However it does seem to expose a flaw in the ability of command line >> tools to work with non-command line tools. >> >> So I have to copy 33,000 lines from a document, > > Don't be daft. Nobody says that stdin is a sufficient interface for a > heavy-weight task like that. With 33000 lines of text, I absolutely would > save them to a permanent file on disk, I think you got sucked into bartc's way of thinking here. Of course stdin is perfectly fine for reading 33000 lines of text. You probably do that all the time. Think of pipes like "... | grep ... | sort | uniq | ...": No reason to save the output of one stage to a temporary file before invoking the next just because it might be large. It's the terminal which is not a good interface for entering 33000 lines of text, even though pasting 33000 lines from the clipboard into xterm works (I vaguely recall that there is or was a size limit, but 33000 shortish lines doesn't seem to be enough to reach it). hp -- _ | Peter J. Holzer| Fluch der elektronischen Textverarbeitung: |_|_) || Man feilt solange an seinen Text um, bis | | | [email protected] | die Satzbestandteile des Satzes nicht mehr __/ | http://www.hjp.at/ | zusammenpaßt. -- Ralph Babel -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: The "loop and a half"
On 2017-10-07 08:35, Steve D'Aprano wrote: > Unfortunately ESCAPE is already used. VT100 (the terminal emulation which is > used in just about all terminals) all control sequences begin with ESC. So > every time you do something like press an arrow key, the terminal sends ESC > followed by other stuff. It would be painful if every time you hit an arrow > key, the interpreter took it as "Exit". The usual solution to this problem is to use a timeout: If ESC is not followed by another character which could continue the sequence within e.g. 0.1 seconds it is interpreted as a standalone key press instead of the start of an escape sequence. This is not 100% reliable: If you are on a jittery network connection, the O in the cursor-up sequence might arrive more than 0.1 seconds after the ESC - or the the three distinct keystrokes ESC O A might be delivered in the same packet. hp -- _ | Peter J. Holzer| Fluch der elektronischen Textverarbeitung: |_|_) || Man feilt solange an seinen Text um, bis | | | [email protected] | die Satzbestandteile des Satzes nicht mehr __/ | http://www.hjp.at/ | zusammenpaßt. -- Ralph Babel -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Python platforms without long long
I just stumbled about this note in https://docs.python.org/3/library/array.html: | 2. The 'q' and 'Q' type codes are available only if the platform C | compiler used to build Python supports C long long, or, on Windows, | __int64. | | New in version 3.3. The long long type was standardized in C99 (and was a popular extension before that). Python 3.3 was released in 2012 - 13 years later. Were any of the supported platforms of Python3 really still missing this type at that time? hp -- _ | Peter J. Holzer| Fluch der elektronischen Textverarbeitung: |_|_) || Man feilt solange an seinen Text um, bis | | | [email protected] | die Satzbestandteile des Satzes nicht mehr __/ | http://www.hjp.at/ | zusammenpaßt. -- Ralph Babel -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: The "loop and a half"
On 2017-10-08 12:53, Gregory Ewing wrote: > Peter J. Holzer wrote: >> In any case, that -E writes to stdout and -S to file is an inconsistency >> which looks more like a historical accident than a planned feature to >> me. > > A possible reason is that with -S there is an obvious choice > for the output file name, i.e. .s, but there is > no conventional way of naming a preprocessed C source file, > so it's best to make the user specify it. Actually, .i seems to be pretty common, and at least gcc recognizes .i files as C source files which should not be preprocessed. Same for DEC's c89 compiler (ca. 1992). The manual page for the PC/IX cc (ca. 1984) doesn't mention .i, so I guess it didn't recognize that extension (but it already had the -E option). hp -- _ | Peter J. Holzer| Fluch der elektronischen Textverarbeitung: |_|_) || Man feilt solange an seinen Text um, bis | | | [email protected] | die Satzbestandteile des Satzes nicht mehr __/ | http://www.hjp.at/ | zusammenpaßt. -- Ralph Babel -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: The "loop and a half"
On 2017-10-08, eryk sun wrote: > On Sun, Oct 8, 2017 at 10:12 AM, Steve D'Aprano > wrote: >> On Sun, 8 Oct 2017 02:06 am, bartc wrote: >> >>> Especially on >>> Windows where the usual Ctrl C doesn't work, so you resort to Ctrl-Break >>> will which actually abort it. Ctrl Z is uncommon. >> >> Thousands of Python programmers on Windows successfully learned to use Ctrl-Z >> ENTER back in the days of Python 1.5, before quit/exit were added as a >> convenience for beginners, and many of them probably still use it. > > Using Ctrl+Z (0x1A) isn't specific to Python. The Windows CRT's > text-mode I/O inherits this from MS-DOS, which took it from CP/M. Which took it from RSX-11. Or probably more specifically from FILES-11. I woldn't be surprised if the enineers at DEC got it from somewhere else before that. -- Grant -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python platforms without long long
On Mon, Oct 9, 2017 at 1:31 AM, Peter J. Holzer wrote: > I just stumbled about this note in > https://docs.python.org/3/library/array.html: > > | 2. The 'q' and 'Q' type codes are available only if the platform C > | compiler used to build Python supports C long long, or, on Windows, > | __int64. > | > | New in version 3.3. > > The long long type was standardized in C99 (and was a popular extension > before that). Python 3.3 was released in 2012 - 13 years later. Were any > of the supported platforms of Python3 really still missing this type at > that time? At what point did MSVC support long long? That's usually the guiding factor with C standard usage. ChrisA -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: django project avoid reload page where work algorithm
Τη Κυριακή, 8 Οκτωβρίου 2017 - 6:35:28 μ.μ. UTC+3, ο χρήστης MRAB έγραψε: > On 2017-10-08 15:27, Xristos Xristoou wrote: > Do you mean "long reload"? user can put some numbers in my html template and i take that numbers and i sue it in specific mathematical algorithm that algorithm to create result need time between 5-10 minutes in that time browser stay on reload...that i mean -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Pandas/dataexplore, how do you get data into them?
I am looking at dataexplore and Pandas, they look as if they may provide useful tools but at the moment I can't quite understand how you get data into them. How do you load a large table into dataexplore? Ultimetely I want to get data from a database table but any help would be useful. -- Chris Green · -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: The "loop and a half"
On Mon, Oct 9, 2017 at 2:01 AM, bartc wrote: > However as graphics became more mainstream then yes I did adopt some > commonly expected styles (menubars for example). As for Alt-F4, if that > generates a WM_CLOSE message for example, then I would be obliged to deal > with it. Yes, it usually does generate that. Why? Because your desktop manager translates concrete user actions into abstract events like "close window" - and does so according to a number of standards. In case you haven't noticed, those standards are not 100% consistent across platforms. So that means that... On Sun, Oct 8, 2017 at 10:46 PM, bartc wrote: > On 07/10/2017 15:40, Steve D'Aprano wrote: >> Or you could just follow the expected Unix interface instead of inventing >> your own. > > Your job is to port an editor that people have been using for 30 years to > Linux. The first thing you do is to change all the commands and shortcuts to > match what is typical on Linux? So that no-one who was familiar with it as > it was can actually use it? ... yeah, you absolutely *should* follow your OS's conventions, and you automatically *will* if you're using a properly-designed GUI toolkit. Why should it be different with the console? For instance, anyone on Linux will understand what this prompt notation means: Use config file: [~/.flurblerc] Yep, definitely follow your host platform's conventions. ChrisA -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Finding Old Posts on Python
On Sunday, October 8, 2017 at 12:42:19 AM UTC+1, Cai Gengyang wrote: > Hello, > > Does anyone know of a way to find all my old posts about Python ? Thanks a > lot! > > GengYang Make a site specific search for your name here https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/ -- Kindest regards. Mark Lawrence. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
IDLE help.
Hello, I am having trouble getting IDLE (Python 3.6 - 64-bit) to open for Windows 10. When I try and run IDLE, nothing happens. It works fine for Python 2.7, but won't open for Python 3.6. I have tried repairing the install but to no avail. I'm fairly new at this kind of thing, so I don't have a lot of technical knowledge. Thanks in advance, Joe. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: OT again sorry [Re: Interactive scripts (back on topic for once) [was Re: The "loop and a half"]]
On Sun, Oct 8, 2017 at 8:15 AM, Gregory Ewing wrote: > > The thing that *really* annoys me is Linux insisting on colourising > the output to a tty, since it invariably seems to pick an undreadable > colour scheme. And the case-insensitive sorting... there's a reason > Makefile starts with a capital M, dammit! > Actually, it doesn't. The color output may come from /etc/profile.d/colorls.sh configs. Either dump that or "unalias ls" in your ~/.bash_profile. Colorized ls is something the distrobution people like and they put it in. Others of us don't care for it. But it's not "Linux", is the profile. Easy to customize. Leam -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: OT again sorry [Re: Interactive scripts (back on topic for once) [was Re: The "loop and a half"]]
leam hall : > Colorized ls is something the distrobution people like and they put it > in. Others of us don't care for it. But it's not "Linux", is the > profile. Easy to customize. Easy and easy... "Linux" means so many things to people. For example, the recent "Linux Subsystem on Windows 10" is funny in that Linux is the one thing it most definitely doesn't have. Closer to home, systemd has taken a central role in the main Linux distributions. I think it would be more accurate to call them "systemd distros" than "Linux distros". It is not at all easy for the Linux user to figure out what configuration options there are, and which ones are intended for end-user configuration. More and more, such tuning needs to be done via systemd unit files (or applicable GUI facilities) and the classical configuration files are deprecated. For example, how can a programmer get a core file of a crashing program? Why, you need to use the systemd-coredump service, of course: https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/systemd-coredum p.html> BTW, I'm not ranting against systemd here, just stating the tectonic shift that is undergoing in the Linux world. As far as "ls" goes, its man page states: The LS_COLORS environment variable can change the settings. Use the dircolors command to set it. Yes, my distro does contain "/etc/profile.d/colorls.sh" but nothing indicates whether the system administrator should or should not touch the file. I can't seem to locate a mention of it here: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/f26/system-administrators-guide/B ook_Info.html#> Also, you need some detective work to derive the luser configuration interface from "/etc/profile.d/colorls.sh". Marko -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: The "loop and a half"
On 08/10/2017 17:13, Chris Angelico wrote: On Mon, Oct 9, 2017 at 2:01 AM, bartc wrote: However as graphics became more mainstream then yes I did adopt some commonly expected styles (menubars for example). As for Alt-F4, if that generates a WM_CLOSE message for example, then I would be obliged to deal with it. Yes, it usually does generate that. Why? Because your desktop manager translates concrete user actions into abstract events like "close window" - and does so according to a number of standards. In case you haven't noticed, those standards are not 100% consistent across platforms. So that means that... On Sun, Oct 8, 2017 at 10:46 PM, bartc wrote: On 07/10/2017 15:40, Steve D'Aprano wrote: Or you could just follow the expected Unix interface instead of inventing your own. Your job is to port an editor that people have been using for 30 years to Linux. The first thing you do is to change all the commands and shortcuts to match what is typical on Linux? So that no-one who was familiar with it as it was can actually use it? ... yeah, you absolutely *should* follow your OS's conventions, and you automatically *will* if you're using a properly-designed GUI toolkit. Why should it be different with the console? For instance, anyone on Linux will understand what this prompt notation means: Use config file: [~/.flurblerc] Yep, definitely follow your host platform's conventions. Yeah, well, some people like to be sheep, others like to be individuals**. I start in computing at a time when an application was the only thing running on a computer, at least, when people had personal computers of their own. Then it really didn't matter what went on outside, as nothing did. (That approach seems to have become popular again with tablets and things usually having one application occupying the screen at a time.) And within an application, it can do what it likes. With regards to editing, there are some common conventions that I absolutely hate: * Left and right keys, and backspace and delete keys, that don't regard the left and right ends of a line as hard stops; they just keep going. OK-ish for word processing, but not for line-oriented code. * Clicking on a box containing text and the whole thing being highlighted. Now you're on tenterhooks as the slightest move and everything disappears. You might be able able to press Ctrl Z to get it back (yes, the same Ctrl Z that's supposed to terminate applications!) but it's still highlighted. * Clicking backspace on a web page doing the same as the Back button. Now, backspace is used for editing text within forms. It's very annoying if, after half an hour filling in a form, somehow the current box loses the focus (the cursor), but you proceed to press backspace space several time before noticing. Like my first complaint, but in spades. * Under Windows, if you press Shift while Caps Lock is on, you get lower case letters. I've never, ever wanted to do this (probably no one else has). My own editor doesn't obey that convention: shift-A will always come out as 'A' whatever the caps lock setting. There are dozens more, yet you are surprised why sometimes I prefer doing things my own way? There are good reasons! (**I was in the audience of a Michael Palin interview a couple of weeks back. (You know, an actual Python!) Before he came on the audience was programmed to respond to the word 'individuals' by all saying 'Yes, we are all individuals!'. Apart from me, obviously.) -- bartc -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: OT again sorry [Re: Interactive scripts (back on topic for once) [was Re: The "loop and a half"]]
On 10/08/2017 12:43 PM, Marko Rauhamaa wrote: leam hall : "Linux" means so many things to people. Yes, but just because someone can spell it doesn't mean they can redefine it. :) Closer to home, systemd has taken a central role in the main Linux distributions. I think it would be more accurate to call them "systemd distros" than "Linux distros". I have other words for them; mostly ones I try not to say. It is not at all easy for the Linux user to figure out what configuration options there are, and which ones are intended for end-user configuration. Agree! I had to look this up and I've been doing Linux for a few years. Marko I knew your e-mail address was familiar; saluton! Leam -- Who hasn't practiced that language in years. Sadly... -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: IDLE help.
On 10/8/2017 5:24 AM, Joe Wilde wrote: I am having trouble getting IDLE (Python 3.6 - 64-bit) to open for Windows 10. When I try and run IDLE, nothing happens. It works fine for Python 2.7, but won't open for Python 3.6. Give more information. How did you install Python? Did you select the option to install tkinter and IDLE? How are you trying to run IDLE? Do you know what Command Prompt and a console are? -- Terry Jan Reedy -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: The "loop and a half"
On Mon, Oct 9, 2017 at 3:37 AM, Stefan Ram wrote: > Gregory Ewing writes: >>bartc wrote: >>>Interactive Python requires quit() or exit(), complete with parentheses. >>Er, what? Ctrl-D works fine for me to exit Python when not >>in the midst of entering a block. > > Under Microsoft Windows, one can press > > Alt-Space > > to open the window menu and then > > C > > to close the window. Since this already works with nearly > every other window, it seems natural to use this also with > the Python console. Also works in any other standards-compliant OS. > (Disclaimer: I don't whether Microsoft is retiring the > Windows menu in Windows 10.) See above comment :| ChrisA -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Pandas/dataexplore, how do you get data into them?
Stefan Ram wrote: > Chris Green writes: > >How do you load a large table into dataexplore? > > I have not tested the following lines, I have no experience > with "dataexplore", this is just from what I heard: > > from pandastable.app import DataExplore > app = DataExplore() > table = app.getCurrentTable() > > You can now supposedly use »table.importCSV« to import CSV. > Read the docs for more details. It might not even work as I > wrote, but maybe just the names of those callables can get > you started. > > Also check out »app.load_dataframe« which supposedly can > load a "dataframe" (interactively?). > Thanks, those might get me going. -- Chris Green · -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: The "loop and a half"
On Mon, Oct 9, 2017 at 3:50 AM, bartc wrote: > Yeah, well, some people like to be sheep, others like to be individuals**. Yeah, well, some people like to be standards-compliant, others like to be irrelevant morons. > I start in computing at a time when an application was the only thing > running on a computer, at least, when people had personal computers of their > own. Then it really didn't matter what went on outside, as nothing did. > > (That approach seems to have become popular again with tablets and things > usually having one application occupying the screen at a time.) > > And within an application, it can do what it likes. It's 2017. Even on a phone/tablet, where there isn't enough room to usefully display more than one app *at a time*, you still have multiple apps. > With regards to editing, > there are some common conventions that I absolutely hate: > > * Under Windows, if you press Shift while Caps Lock is on, you get lower > case letters. I've never, ever wanted to do this (probably no one else has). > My own editor doesn't obey that convention: shift-A will always come out as > 'A' whatever the caps lock setting. > > There are dozens more, yet you are surprised why sometimes I prefer doing > things my own way? There are good reasons! Yep. Good reasons like that you're a moron. You assume that since *you* have never needed to produce one lower-case letter in a block of upper-case, that "probably no one else has", and then you make it impossible to do that in your editor. I have wanted to produce a lower-case letter by holding Shift. I have also used this behaviour to detect and recognize faults of various sorts. Do you understand the concept of debugging a system by getting more information, not less? > (**I was in the audience of a Michael Palin interview a couple of weeks > back. (You know, an actual Python!) Before he came on the audience was > programmed to respond to the word 'individuals' by all saying 'Yes, we are > all individuals!'. Apart from me, obviously.) Obviously. Which meant that the crowd created a joke, and you simply didn't take part in it. You became irrelevant. ChrisA -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: The "loop and a half"
Chris Angelico : > On Mon, Oct 9, 2017 at 3:50 AM, bartc wrote: >> Yeah, well, some people like to be sheep, others like to be >> individuals**. > > Yeah, well, some people like to be standards-compliant, others like to > be irrelevant morons. Even being called a sheep doesn't justify that kind of response, Chris. >> There are dozens more, yet you are surprised why sometimes I prefer >> doing things my own way? There are good reasons! > > Yep. Good reasons like that you're a moron. You can think that but shouldn't post it. Simply plonk Bart if you have to. Marko -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: The "loop and a half"
On 08/10/2017 19:10, Chris Angelico wrote: On Mon, Oct 9, 2017 at 3:50 AM, bartc wrote: You assume that since *you* have never needed to produce one lower-case letter in a block of upper-case, that "probably no one else has", and then you make it impossible to do that in your editor. Only when caps-lock is stuck on (then the feature may have be of some use at last). However my editor also makes it very easy to reverse or change case of existing text. The advantage of Shift working one-way is that it is guaranteed to give you a capital letter without you needing to check the caps-lock status or checking the screen to see that it was typed as capitals. That is 100 times more useful than the rare time you have to add a lower case letter in a sea of capitals and can't be bothered to turn off caps lock. I have wanted to produce a lower-case letter by holding Shift. I've read that other people have had exactly the same trouble. I don't believe that my pattern of typing English text is that different from most other people's, and I've ALWAYS found that 'feature' annoying, so from that I might infer that plenty of others do too. In fact, if I start off MS Word, with caps lock unknowingly on, and type Shifted-T, unshifted-H, unshifted-E, that will temporarily display 'tHE' before it gets auto-corrected to the intended 'The'. I wonder why it does that? According to you, people WANT to type tHE. BTW, all the typewriters I've used do exactly what I want. If caps lock is on (shift-lock there), then pressing Shift doesn't reverse it. So, what happened to existing practice there, typewriters hadn't been around long enough? > I have also used this behaviour to > detect and recognize faults of various sorts. Do you understand the > concept of debugging a system by getting more information, not less? I've no idea what you're talking about there. > Yep. Good reasons like that you're a moron. > Yeah, well, some people like to be standards-compliant, others like to > be irrelevant morons. I started to be angry when I saw these insults now I'm just rather depressed. -- bartc -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: django project avoid reload page where work algorithm
On 10/8/17 11:58 AM, Xristos Xristoou wrote: Τη Κυριακή, 8 Οκτωβρίου 2017 - 6:35:28 μ.μ. UTC+3, ο χρήστης MRAB έγραψε: On 2017-10-08 15:27, Xristos Xristoou wrote: Do you mean "long reload"? user can put some numbers in my html template and i take that numbers and i sue it in specific mathematical algorithm that algorithm to create result need time between 5-10 minutes in that time browser stay on reload...that i mean It sounds like the fundamental problem is that you are doing the calculation in the web page handler. This means that the browser will be stuck in the page load until the calculation finishes, and that if the user aborts the access (or loses connection) then the web page handler is aborted. What you need to do is rather than doing the calculation in the page handler, you need to kick off an independent process to do the calculation, and then immediately finish the page (maybe giving the use a link to a page they can check to see if a result is available). -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Pandas/dataexplore, how do you get data into them?
On 08/10/17 18:02, Chris Green wrote: > I am looking at dataexplore and Pandas, they look as if they may > provide useful tools but at the moment I can't quite understand how > you get data into them. > > How do you load a large table into dataexplore? > > Ultimetely I want to get data from a database table but any help would > be useful. > I know nothing about dataexplore, but pandas has tonnes of handy I/O functions: http://pandas.pydata.org/pandas-docs/version/0.20/io.html I mostly use pandas.read_csv to get data in, but there is also a read_sql function that you might find useful -- Thomas -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: django project avoid reload page where work algorithm
Τη Κυριακή, 8 Οκτωβρίου 2017 - 10:48:38 μ.μ. UTC+3, ο χρήστης Richard Damon έγραψε: > On 10/8/17 11:58 AM, Xristos Xristoou wrote: > > Τη Κυριακή, 8 Οκτωβρίου 2017 - 6:35:28 μ.μ. UTC+3, ο χρήστης MRAB έγραψε: > >> On 2017-10-08 15:27, Xristos Xristoou wrote: > > > >> Do you mean "long reload"? > > > > user can put some numbers in my html template and i take that numbers and i > > sue it in specific mathematical algorithm that algorithm to create result > > need time between 5-10 minutes in that time browser stay on reload...that > > i mean > > > > It sounds like the fundamental problem is that you are doing the > calculation in the web page handler. This means that the browser will be > stuck in the page load until the calculation finishes, and that if the > user aborts the access (or loses connection) then the web page handler > is aborted. > > What you need to do is rather than doing the calculation in the page > handler, you need to kick off an independent process to do the > calculation, and then immediately finish the page (maybe giving the use > a link to a page they can check to see if a result is available). yes this is nice can you help me to do that? -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: django project avoid reload page where work algorithm
On 10/08/2017 02:46 PM, Xristos Xristoou wrote: > Τη Κυριακή, 8 Οκτωβρίου 2017 - 10:48:38 μ.μ. UTC+3, ο χρήστης Richard Damon > έγραψε: >> It sounds like the fundamental problem is that you are doing the >> calculation in the web page handler. This means that the browser will be >> stuck in the page load until the calculation finishes, and that if the >> user aborts the access (or loses connection) then the web page handler >> is aborted. >> >> What you need to do is rather than doing the calculation in the page >> handler, you need to kick off an independent process to do the >> calculation, and then immediately finish the page (maybe giving the use >> a link to a page they can check to see if a result is available). > > yes this is nice can you help me to do that? I'm sure google can give you some ideas on how to implement this. Have you done a google search? Maybe start with the terms "django long-running process" and see what comes up. Good luck. Learning is a fun adventure! -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: django project avoid reload page where work algorithm
On 10/8/17 4:46 PM, Xristos Xristoou wrote: Τη Κυριακή, 8 Οκτωβρίου 2017 - 10:48:38 μ.μ. UTC+3, ο χρήστης Richard Damon έγραψε: On 10/8/17 11:58 AM, Xristos Xristoou wrote: Τη Κυριακή, 8 Οκτωβρίου 2017 - 6:35:28 μ.μ. UTC+3, ο χρήστης MRAB έγραψε: On 2017-10-08 15:27, Xristos Xristoou wrote: Do you mean "long reload"? user can put some numbers in my html template and i take that numbers and i sue it in specific mathematical algorithm that algorithm to create result need time between 5-10 minutes in that time browser stay on reload...that i mean It sounds like the fundamental problem is that you are doing the calculation in the web page handler. This means that the browser will be stuck in the page load until the calculation finishes, and that if the user aborts the access (or loses connection) then the web page handler is aborted. What you need to do is rather than doing the calculation in the page handler, you need to kick off an independent process to do the calculation, and then immediately finish the page (maybe giving the use a link to a page they can check to see if a result is available). yes this is nice can you help me to do that? I haven't done it myself, but you may want to look at the various os.spawn* methods. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: The "loop and a half"
bartc wrote: And within an application, it can do what it likes. With regards to editing, there are some common conventions that I absolutely hate: In other words, you would like all authors of text editors to adopt a certain set of conventions for these things. So much for each program "doing what it likes". -- Greg -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Pandas/dataexplore, how do you get data into them?
Thomas Jollans wrote: > On 08/10/17 18:02, Chris Green wrote: > > I am looking at dataexplore and Pandas, they look as if they may > > provide useful tools but at the moment I can't quite understand how > > you get data into them. > > > > How do you load a large table into dataexplore? > > > > Ultimetely I want to get data from a database table but any help would > > be useful. > > > I know nothing about dataexplore, but pandas has tonnes of handy I/O > functions: > > http://pandas.pydata.org/pandas-docs/version/0.20/io.html > > I mostly use pandas.read_csv to get data in, but there is also a > read_sql function that you might find useful > Ah, thank you, this is getting more interesting! :-) -- Chris Green · -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
How to track usage within a desktop python application
I maintain a desktop python application that is used by a decent number of folks (I would assume 10k+, though it's hard to know since it's based on number of downloads rather than number of unique users). I would like to integrate some sort of usage tracking that would enable me to determine number of users along with startups, which features are used/not used, performance metrics, exceptions, etc. Since it's an open-source project, I am looking for a free service (or a service that provides free licenses to open source projects) that has a python client library. Can anyone recommend something? -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python GUI application embedding a web browser - Options?
Did you find out the answer for that? -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: How to track usage within a desktop python application
> On Oct 8, 2017, at 8:38 PM, Ryan Holmes wrote: > > I maintain a desktop python application that is used by a decent number of > folks (I would assume 10k+, though it's hard to know since it's based on > number of downloads rather than number of unique users). I would like to > integrate some sort of usage tracking that would enable me to determine > number of users along with startups, which features are used/not used, > performance metrics, exceptions, etc. Since it's an open-source project, I am > looking for a free service (or a service that provides free licenses to open > source projects) that has a python client library. > You do know, of course, that most folks frown on applications that “phone home” without asking first, and if you do ask your users for permission, many of them (perhaps most) will say no. So, you still won’t really have good statistics. Bill > Can anyone recommend something? > -- > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
The "loop and a half"
bartc wrote: >> But as it happens, I could make computers talk to each when I was working >> with microprocessors, using home-made interfaces, rs232 or rs423. I wouldn't >> know how to do it now because it depends on other people's over-complex >> tech. Chris Angelico wrote: > I don't know if you're an idiot or a troll. Using TCP/IP networking is > pretty simple (at least if you're using a real language - your own toy > languages might have made it unnecessarily hard, for all I know), > hardly "over-complex" by comparison to RS-232 programming. I suppose he is a programmer who is just not much interested in networking and what you can do in beloved console. And if you have remote editing you still need to work in a line by line input? Just for people like me who know nothing about networking, can you popularly explain the : > Have you ever worked on a slow remote session where a GUI is > completely impracticable (or maybe even unavailable), and redrawing > the screen is too expensive to do all the time? So where does the redrawing happen? The machine youre sitting on (let's call it 'A') and send remote commands or retrieving text files? Or the redrawing must be synced on both A and the remote machine? If so, then why so? How does the bandwidth implies that you must edit stuff in the console on A? And not in a nice editor with normal fonts? Am i missing something or your 'A' machine cannot use graphics? Even on 386 computers there was graphics and keybord&mouse input. That is definitely what I would want for editing files. Yes I've tried line by line eding back in DOS times and that really sucks. Mikhail -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: The "loop and a half"
On Mon, Oct 9, 2017 at 3:35 PM, Mikhail V wrote: >> Have you ever worked on a slow remote session where a GUI is >> completely impracticable (or maybe even unavailable), and redrawing >> the screen is too expensive to do all the time? > > So where does the redrawing happen? The machine youre sitting on (let's > call it 'A') and send remote commands or retrieving text files? Or the > redrawing must be synced on both A and > the remote machine? If so, then why so? > How does the bandwidth implies that you must edit stuff in the console on > A? > And not in a nice editor with normal fonts? > Am i missing something or your 'A' machine cannot use graphics? Even on 386 > computers > there was graphics and keybord&mouse input. That is definitely what I would > want > for editing files. Yes I've tried line by line eding back in DOS times and > that really sucks. Mostly, I use an SSH session without X11 forwarding, so everything happens on that link. Redrawing happens on "A", and the program runs on "B". It is technologically possible to have a GUI (that's what X11 forwarding is for), but it's a lot more fiddliness and bandwidth, and it requires that "B" have the appropriate GUI libraries installed, so I often don't or can't do that. Generally, my preferred editor is nano, since it lives within those requirements but still has a decent UI. It's not always available though, and it's useful to know how to manage without it. But even though you won't always be doing this sort of thing, it's definitely something that a *programming language designer* should be aware of. Basic networking is critical to any modern language. ChrisA -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: The "loop and a half"
On Sun, Oct 8, 2017 at 10:49 PM, Chris Angelico wrote: > On Mon, Oct 9, 2017 at 3:35 PM, Mikhail V wrote: >>> Have you ever worked on a slow remote session where a GUI is >>> completely impracticable (or maybe even unavailable), and redrawing >>> the screen is too expensive to do all the time? >> >> So where does the redrawing happen? The machine youre sitting on (let's >> call it 'A') and send remote commands or retrieving text files? Or the >> redrawing must be synced on both A and >> the remote machine? If so, then why so? >> How does the bandwidth implies that you must edit stuff in the console on >> A? >> And not in a nice editor with normal fonts? >> Am i missing something or your 'A' machine cannot use graphics? Even on 386 >> computers >> there was graphics and keybord&mouse input. That is definitely what I would >> want >> for editing files. Yes I've tried line by line eding back in DOS times and >> that really sucks. > > Mostly, I use an SSH session without X11 forwarding, so everything > happens on that link. Redrawing happens on "A", and the program runs > on "B". It is technologically possible to have a GUI (that's what X11 > forwarding is for), but it's a lot more fiddliness and bandwidth, and > it requires that "B" have the appropriate GUI libraries installed, so > I often don't or can't do that. Or you could use a GUI editor that runs locally and has the capability to edit files remotely over ssh. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: The "loop and a half"
Grant Edwards wrote: Which took it from RSX-11. Or probably more specifically from FILES-11. I woldn't be surprised if the enineers at DEC got it from somewhere else before that. Quite possibly it goes back to the very earliest DEC OS that had files, whatever that was. The reason for it was that the file system only kept track of file sizes in blocks, not bytes, so some way was needed to mark the end of a text file part way through a block. -- Greg -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: The "loop and a half"
On Mon, Oct 9, 2017 at 4:17 PM, Ian Kelly wrote: > On Sun, Oct 8, 2017 at 10:49 PM, Chris Angelico wrote: >> On Mon, Oct 9, 2017 at 3:35 PM, Mikhail V wrote: Have you ever worked on a slow remote session where a GUI is completely impracticable (or maybe even unavailable), and redrawing the screen is too expensive to do all the time? >>> >>> So where does the redrawing happen? The machine youre sitting on (let's >>> call it 'A') and send remote commands or retrieving text files? Or the >>> redrawing must be synced on both A and >>> the remote machine? If so, then why so? >>> How does the bandwidth implies that you must edit stuff in the console on >>> A? >>> And not in a nice editor with normal fonts? >>> Am i missing something or your 'A' machine cannot use graphics? Even on 386 >>> computers >>> there was graphics and keybord&mouse input. That is definitely what I would >>> want >>> for editing files. Yes I've tried line by line eding back in DOS times and >>> that really sucks. >> >> Mostly, I use an SSH session without X11 forwarding, so everything >> happens on that link. Redrawing happens on "A", and the program runs >> on "B". It is technologically possible to have a GUI (that's what X11 >> forwarding is for), but it's a lot more fiddliness and bandwidth, and >> it requires that "B" have the appropriate GUI libraries installed, so >> I often don't or can't do that. > > Or you could use a GUI editor that runs locally and has the capability > to edit files remotely over ssh. That's also a possibility, but I have yet to find one that can SSH to a server as a non-root user and then sudo to edit the files. If I simply run everything over SSH, I can "sudo -e /etc/some-file" and it'll manage that side of things for me. Of course, there is another option, and one that I'm using increasingly often these days: edit files locally, commit to git, and then "git pull" on the remote system. :) ChrisA -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: The "loop and a half"
Chris Angelico writes: >> Or you could use a GUI editor that runs locally and has the capability >> to edit files remotely over ssh. > > That's also a possibility, but I have yet to find one that can SSH to > a server as a non-root user and then sudo to edit the files. If it's just a matter of "finding one", look no further and try out Emacs's TRAMP :-) ciao, lele. -- nickname: Lele Gaifax | Quando vivrò di quello che ho pensato ieri real: Emanuele Gaifas | comincerò ad aver paura di chi mi copia. [email protected] | -- Fortunato Depero, 1929. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
on = style
hi just a quick question, why is my_pens = 4 my_pencils = 5 is preffered to my_pens = 4 my_pencils = 5 *referring to = symbol alignment tk ! Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer, Mauritius abdurrahmaanjanhangeer.wordpress.com -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: on = style
On Mon, Oct 9, 2017 at 5:40 PM, Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer wrote: > hi just a quick question, why is > > my_pens = 4 > my_pencils = 5 > > is preffered to > > my_pens = 4 > my_pencils = 5 > > *referring to = symbol alignment Because when you add a new variable: my_mousepads = 6 you then have to add extra spaces to each of the other lines. That's spurious changes in a diff, unnecessary edits that you have to make, and lots of pointless work. ChrisA -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
