date:20131202

On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 10:34 PM, iMath  wrote:
> I have few wav files that I can use either of the following command line 
> mentioned here
> https://trac.ffmpeg.org/wiki/How%20to%20concatenate%20%28join,%20merge%29%20media%20files
>  to concatenate
>
>
> ffmpeg -f concat -i <(for f in ./*.wav; do echo "file '$f'"; done) -c copy 
> output.wav
> ffmpeg -f concat -i <(printf "file '%s'\n" ./*.wav) -c copy output.wav
> ffmpeg -f concat -i <(find . -name '*.wav' -printf "file '%p'\n") -c copy 
> output.wav

In bash, the <(...) notation is like piping: it executes the command
inside the parentheses and uses that as standard input to ffmpeg. So
if you work out what the commands are doing (it looks like they emit a
line saying "file '...'" for each .wav file in the current directory,
possibly including subdirectories) and replicate that in Python, you
should be able to make it cross-platform.

ChrisA
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Re: how to implement a queue-like container with sort function

2013-12-02 Thread iMath

在 2013年11月29日星期五UTC+8下午10时57分36秒，Mark Lawrence写道：
> On 29/11/2013 12:33, iMath wrote:
> 
> >
> 
> > BTW ,the Queue object has an attribute 'queue' ,but I cannot find it 
> > described in the DOC ,what it means ?
> 
> >
> 
> 
> 
> Really? AttributeError: type object 'Queue' has no attribute 'queue'
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> Python is the second best programming language in the world.
> 
> But the best has yet to be invented.  Christian Tismer
> 
> 
> 
> Mark Lawrence

you can do a check by hasattr()
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Re: how to implement a queue-like container with sort function

On 12/2/13 6:41 AM, iMath wrote:

在 2013年11月29日星期五UTC+8下午10时57分36秒，Mark Lawrence写道：

On 29/11/2013 12:33, iMath wrote:

BTW ,the Queue object has an attribute 'queue' ,but I cannot find it described 
in the DOC ,what it means ?

Really? AttributeError: type object 'Queue' has no attribute 'queue'

--

Python is the second best programming language in the world.

But the best has yet to be invented.  Christian Tismer

Mark Lawrence

you can do a check by hasattr()

Yes, a Queue object has a queue attribute:

>>> import Queue
>>> q = Queue.Queue()
>>> q.queue
deque([])

But you shouldn't use it.  It's part of the implementation of Queue, not 
meant for you to use directly.  In particular, if you use it directly, 
you are skipping all synchronization, which is the main reason to use a 
Queue in the first place.

It should have been named "_queue". We'll add that to the list of PEP-8 
violations in the Queue module! :)

--Ned.

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Re: how to implement a queue-like container with sort function

On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 10:58 PM, Ned Batchelder  wrote:
> Yes, a Queue object has a queue attribute:
>
> >>> import Queue
> >>> q = Queue.Queue()
> >>> q.queue
> deque([])
>
> But you shouldn't use it.  It's part of the implementation of Queue, not
> meant for you to use directly.  In particular, if you use it directly, you
> are skipping all synchronization, which is the main reason to use a Queue in
> the first place.

I should apologize here; when the OP said "queue", I immediately
noticed that I could import that and use it, and mistakenly started my
testing on that, instead of using the deque type. It's deque that
should be used here. Queue is just a wrapper around deque that adds
functionality that has nothing to do with what's needed here.

ChrisA
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Re: how to implement a queue-like container with sort function

On 12/2/13 7:04 AM, Chris Angelico wrote:

On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 10:58 PM, Ned Batchelder  wrote:

Yes, a Queue object has a queue attribute:

 >>> import Queue
 >>> q = Queue.Queue()
 >>> q.queue
 deque([])

But you shouldn't use it.  It's part of the implementation of Queue, not
meant for you to use directly.  In particular, if you use it directly, you
are skipping all synchronization, which is the main reason to use a Queue in
the first place.

I should apologize here; when the OP said "queue", I immediately
noticed that I could import that and use it, and mistakenly started my
testing on that, instead of using the deque type. It's deque that
should be used here. Queue is just a wrapper around deque that adds
functionality that has nothing to do with what's needed here.

ChrisA

Actually, I had a long conversation in the #python IRC channel with the 
OP at the same time he was posting the question here, and it turns out 
he knows exactly how many entries are going into the "queue", so a 
plain-old list is the best solution.  I don't know quite where the idea 
of limiting the number of entries came from.

--Ned.

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Re: Python Unicode handling wins again -- mostly

2013-12-02 Thread wxjmfauth

Le dimanche 1 décembre 2013 21:54:48 UTC+1, Tim Delaney a écrit :
> On 2 December 2013 07:15,   wrote:
> 
> 
> 0.11.13 02:44, Steven D'Aprano написав(ла):
> 
> 
> > (2) If you reverse that string, does it give "lëon"? The implication of
> 
> > this question is that strings should operate on grapheme clusters rather
> 
> > than code points. ...
> 
> >
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, a grapheme cluster *is* a code points cluster.
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone with a decent level of reading comprehension would have understood 
> that Steven knows that. The implied word is "individual" i.e. "... rather 
> than [individual] code points".
> 
> 
> 
> Why am I responding to a troll? Probably because out of all his baseless 
> complaints about the FSR, he *did* have one valid point about performance 
> that has now been fixed.
> 
> 
> Tim Delaney


My English is far too be perfect, I think I understood
it correctly.

The point in not in the words "grapheme" or "code point",
neither in "individual", ;-), the point is in "rather".

If one wishes to work on a set of graphemes, one can
only work with the set of the corresponding code points.


To complete Serhiy Storchaka's example:

>>> len(unicodedata.normalize('NFKD', '\ufdfa')) == 18
True

is correct.

jmf

PS I did not even speak about the FSR.
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Re: Managing Google Groups headaches

2013-12-02 Thread Neil Cerutti

On 2013-11-28, Roy Smith  wrote:
> In article ,
>  Alister  wrote:
>> Perhaps the best option is for everybody to bombard Google
>> with bug reports (preferably typed with extra long lines &
>> double spaced as that is clearly what they are used to & we
>> would not want to upset them would we? )
>
> It's pretty clear Google doesn't care about Google Groups.  Or,
> at least, they don't care that it interacts badly with
> newsgroups, and in particular with bidirectional
> newsgroup/mailing-list gateways.
>
> The purpose of Google Groups is to generate traffic to their
> site, which it does just fine.  Making it behave better with
> newsgroups won't change that, so there's no incentive for them
> to do so.

The current situation does force a lot of technology-focused
people, progammers in particular, into a low opinion of Google.
The crappy usenet portal is poor marketing.

I wish they'd never bought dejanews.

-- 
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Re: Managing Google Groups headaches

2013-12-02 Thread Roy Smith

In article ,
 Neil Cerutti  wrote:

> On 2013-11-28, Roy Smith  wrote:
> > In article ,
> >  Alister  wrote:
> >> Perhaps the best option is for everybody to bombard Google
> >> with bug reports (preferably typed with extra long lines &
> >> double spaced as that is clearly what they are used to & we
> >> would not want to upset them would we? )
> >
> > It's pretty clear Google doesn't care about Google Groups.  Or,
> > at least, they don't care that it interacts badly with
> > newsgroups, and in particular with bidirectional
> > newsgroup/mailing-list gateways.
> >
> > The purpose of Google Groups is to generate traffic to their
> > site, which it does just fine.  Making it behave better with
> > newsgroups won't change that, so there's no incentive for them
> > to do so.
> 
> The current situation does force a lot of technology-focused
> people, progammers in particular, into a low opinion of Google.
> The crappy usenet portal is poor marketing.

If you think, "The set of people who are still trying to use usenet 
groups for anything serious" is a lot of people, you don't understand 
the scale on which Google operates.
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Re: Managing Google Groups headaches

2013-12-02 Thread Neil Cerutti

On 2013-12-02, Roy Smith  wrote:
> In article ,
>  Neil Cerutti  wrote:
>
>> On 2013-11-28, Roy Smith  wrote:
>> > In article ,
>> >  Alister  wrote:
>> >> Perhaps the best option is for everybody to bombard Google
>> >> with bug reports (preferably typed with extra long lines &
>> >> double spaced as that is clearly what they are used to & we
>> >> would not want to upset them would we? )
>> >
>> > It's pretty clear Google doesn't care about Google Groups.  Or,
>> > at least, they don't care that it interacts badly with
>> > newsgroups, and in particular with bidirectional
>> > newsgroup/mailing-list gateways.
>> >
>> > The purpose of Google Groups is to generate traffic to their
>> > site, which it does just fine.  Making it behave better with
>> > newsgroups won't change that, so there's no incentive for them
>> > to do so.
>> 
>> The current situation does force a lot of technology-focused
>> people, progammers in particular, into a low opinion of Google.
>> The crappy usenet portal is poor marketing.
>
> If you think, "The set of people who are still trying to use
> usenet groups for anything serious" is a lot of people, you
> don't understand the scale on which Google operates.

It's probably hard to even visualize.

-- 
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Re: Getting the Appdata Directory with Python and PEP?

2013-12-02 Thread Kevin Walzer


On 11/26/13, 5:49 PM, Eamonn Rea wrote:

Maybe this module is of some use to you:
>
>https://pypi.python.org/pypi/appdirs
>
>
>
>It provides a unified Python API to the various OS specific 'user' directory 
locations.
>
>
>
>Irmen

I saw this, but I wanted to do it myself as I stated in the OP:)


This module appears to simply use hard-coded paths on Unix/Linux and OS 
X--not much to learn there, except which paths to code.


--Kevin

--
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Code by Kevin/Mobile Code by Kevin
http://www.codebykevin.com
http://www.wtmobilesoftware.com
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Re: reporting proxy porting problem

2013-12-02 Thread Robin Becker


On 28/11/2013 22:01, Terry Reedy wrote:
..


All the transition guides I have seen recommend first updating 2.x code (and its
tests) to work in 2.x with *all* classes being new-style classes. I presume one
of the code checker programs will check this for you. To some extent, the
upgrade can be done by changing one class at a time.



the intent is to produce a compatible code with aid of six.py like functions.



Yes, this means abandoning support of 2.1 ;-). It also means giving up
magical hacks that only work with old-style classes.


I find that I don't understand exactly how the original works so well,


To me, not being comprehensible is not a good sign. I explain some of
the behavior below.


The author has commented that he might have been drunk at time of writing :)





but here is a cut down version



..

thanks for the analysis, I think we came to the same broad conclusion. I think 
this particular module may get lost in the wash. If it ever needs 
re-implementing we can presumably rely on some more general approach as used in 
the various remote object proxies like pyro or similar.

--
Robin Becker

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Re: Python Unicode handling wins again -- mostly


On 02/12/2013 12:39, [email protected] wrote:


My English is far too be perfect, I think I understood
it correctly.

PS I did not even speak about the FSR.



1) Your English is far from perfect as you clearly do not understand the 
repeated requests *NOT* to send us double spaced crap via google groups.


2) You can't speak about the FSR as you know precisely nothing about it, 
but as they say, ignorance is bliss.


--
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But the best has yet to be invented.  Christian Tismer

Mark Lawrence

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Re: Python Unicode handling wins again -- mostly


On 12/2/13 9:46 AM, Mark Lawrence wrote:

On 02/12/2013 12:39, [email protected] wrote:


My English is far too be perfect, I think I understood
it correctly.

PS I did not even speak about the FSR.



1) Your English is far from perfect as you clearly do not understand the
repeated requests *NOT* to send us double spaced crap via google groups.

2) You can't speak about the FSR as you know precisely nothing about it,
but as they say, ignorance is bliss.



As annoying as baseless claims against the FSR were, wxjmafauth is 
right: he didn't even mention the FSR in this thread.  There's really no 
point dragging this thread into that territory.


--Ned.

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Re: Python Unicode handling wins again -- mostly


On 02/12/2013 15:22, Ned Batchelder wrote:

On 12/2/13 9:46 AM, Mark Lawrence wrote:

On 02/12/2013 12:39, [email protected] wrote:


My English is far too be perfect, I think I understood
it correctly.

PS I did not even speak about the FSR.



1) Your English is far from perfect as you clearly do not understand the
repeated requests *NOT* to send us double spaced crap via google groups.

2) You can't speak about the FSR as you know precisely nothing about it,
but as they say, ignorance is bliss.



As annoying as baseless claims against the FSR were, wxjmafauth is
right: he didn't even mention the FSR in this thread.  There's really no
point dragging this thread into that territory.

--Ned.



He's quite deliberately dragged it up by using p.s.  Without doubt he's 
the worst loser in the world and I'm *NOT* stopping getting at him.  I 
find his behaviour, continuously and groundlessly insulting the Python 
core developers, quite disgusting.


--
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But the best has yet to be invented.  Christian Tismer

Mark Lawrence

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Re: Python Unicode handling wins again -- mostly

On Tue, Dec 3, 2013 at 2:45 AM, Mark Lawrence  wrote:
> He's quite deliberately dragged it up by using p.s.  Without doubt he's the
> worst loser in the world and I'm *NOT* stopping getting at him.  I find his
> behaviour, continuously and groundlessly insulting the Python core
> developers, quite disgusting.

What he does is make very sure that the awesomeness of Python 3.3+ is
constantly being brought up on python-list. New users of Python who
come here will, within a fairly short time, learn that Python actually
gets Unicode right, unlike most languages out there, and that it's
efficient and high performance.

ChrisA
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Re: Python Unicode handling wins again -- mostly


On 12/2/13 10:45 AM, Mark Lawrence wrote:

On 02/12/2013 15:22, Ned Batchelder wrote:

On 12/2/13 9:46 AM, Mark Lawrence wrote:

On 02/12/2013 12:39, [email protected] wrote:


My English is far too be perfect, I think I understood
it correctly.

PS I did not even speak about the FSR.



1) Your English is far from perfect as you clearly do not understand the
repeated requests *NOT* to send us double spaced crap via google groups.

2) You can't speak about the FSR as you know precisely nothing about it,
but as they say, ignorance is bliss.



As annoying as baseless claims against the FSR were, wxjmafauth is
right: he didn't even mention the FSR in this thread.  There's really no
point dragging this thread into that territory.

--Ned.



He's quite deliberately dragged it up by using p.s.  Without doubt he's
the worst loser in the world and I'm *NOT* stopping getting at him.  I
find his behaviour, continuously and groundlessly insulting the Python
core developers, quite disgusting.



His PS is in reference to you, Ethan, and Tim reminiscing about his past 
complaints against the FSR.  He made three posts to this thread before 
you started in on him, and none of them mentioned the FSR.  Tim first 
mentioned it.


There's no need to call him "the worst loser in the world."  Nothing 
good will come from that kind of attack.  It doesn't make this community 
better, and it will not change his behavior.


He said nothing in this thread that insulted the Python core developers. 
His posts in this thread are not about the FSR, and yet you dragged the 
old fights into it.  You are being the troll here.


--Ned.

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I look for a list to convert time zone abbreviation to full time zone in python

2013-12-02 Thread Stéphane Klein

Hi,

I would like to convert time zone abbreviation to full time zone in Python.

I've found this information :

*
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1703546/parsing-date-time-string-with-timezone-abbreviated-name-in-python

I'm currently writing dict with this informations :
http://www.timeanddate.com/library/abbreviations/timezones/

Questions :

* are there the same list somewhere (I didn't found in pytz) ?
* is it possible to append this list in pytz or in standard python date module ?

Best regards,
Stephane
-- 
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blog: http://stephane-klein.info
Twitter: http://twitter.com/klein_stephane
cv: http://cv.stephane-klein.info

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Re: Managing Google Groups headaches

On Monday, December 2, 2013 7:34:33 PM UTC+5:30, Neil Cerutti wrote:
> On 2013-12-02, Roy Smith  wrote:
> >> The current situation does force a lot of technology-focused
> >> people, progammers in particular, into a low opinion of Google.
> >> The crappy usenet portal is poor marketing.
> >
> > If you think, "The set of people who are still trying to use
> > usenet groups for anything serious" is a lot of people, you
> > don't understand the scale on which Google operates.
>
> It's probably hard to even visualize.

I was dreaming about in an alternate surreal world…
And now you guys have crashed me back to planet-earth-2013

   !MEAN!
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Re: I look for a list to convert time zone abbreviation to full time zone in python

2013-12-02 Thread Joel Goldstick

On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 11:18 AM, Stéphane Klein  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I would like to convert time zone abbreviation to full time zone in Python.
>
> I've found this information :
>
> *
>
> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1703546/parsing-date-time-string-with-timezone-abbreviated-name-in-python
>
> I'm currently writing dict with this informations :
> http://www.timeanddate.com/library/abbreviations/timezones/
>
> Questions :
>
> * are there the same list somewhere (I didn't found in pytz) ?
> * is it possible to append this list in pytz or in standard python date
> module ?
>

Is this what you are looking for: http://timezonedb.com/download

>
> Best regards,
> Stephane
> --
> Stéphane Klein 
> blog: http://stephane-klein.info
> Twitter: http://twitter.com/klein_stephane
> cv: http://cv.stephane-klein.info
>
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>



-- 
Joel Goldstick
http://joelgoldstick.com
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Re: Managing Google Groups headaches


On 02/12/2013 17:11, rusi wrote:

On Monday, December 2, 2013 7:34:33 PM UTC+5:30, Neil Cerutti wrote:

On 2013-12-02, Roy Smith  wrote:

The current situation does force a lot of technology-focused
people, progammers in particular, into a low opinion of Google.
The crappy usenet portal is poor marketing.


If you think, "The set of people who are still trying to use
usenet groups for anything serious" is a lot of people, you
don't understand the scale on which Google operates.


It's probably hard to even visualize.


I was dreaming about in an alternate surreal world…
And now you guys have crashed me back to planet-earth-2013

!MEAN!



¿As this is an international group why not ¡MEAN!? :)

Quickly runs off to hide...

--
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But the best has yet to be invented.  Christian Tismer

Mark Lawrence

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Re: Managing Google Groups headaches

On Tue, Dec 3, 2013 at 4:48 AM, Mark Lawrence  wrote:
> ¿As this is an international group why not ¡MEAN!? :)

¿Does punctuation nest to any level when you ask, ¿Shouldn't it be ¡MEAN!??

ChrisA
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Re: Managing Google Groups headaches


On 02/12/2013 17:54, Chris Angelico wrote:

On Tue, Dec 3, 2013 at 4:48 AM, Mark Lawrence  wrote:

¿As this is an international group why not ¡MEAN!? :)


¿Does punctuation nest to any level when you ask, ¿Shouldn't it be ¡MEAN!??

ChrisA



Yes.

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But the best has yet to be invented.  Christian Tismer

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Re: Python Unicode handling wins again -- mostly

2013-12-02 Thread Terry Reedy


On 12/2/2013 10:45 AM, Mark Lawrence wrote:


the worst loser in the world


Mark, I consider your continual direct personal attacks on other posters 
to be a violation of the PSF Code of Conduct, which *does* apply to 
python-list. Please stop.


--
Terry Jan Reedy, one of multiple list moderators

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Re: Python Unicode handling wins again -- mostly


On 02/12/2013 20:26, Terry Reedy wrote:

On 12/2/2013 10:45 AM, Mark Lawrence wrote:


the worst loser in the world


Mark, I consider your continual direct personal attacks on other posters
to be a violation of the PSF Code of Conduct, which *does* apply to
python-list. Please stop.



The attacks that "Joseph McCarthy" has been launching on the core 
developers for the last 15 months are in my view now perfectly 
acceptable.  This is excellent news.  Everybody can now say what they 
like about the core developers and there's no comeback.


You can also stuff the code of conduct, it's quite clearly only brought 
into play when it suits.  Never, ever aim it at somebody who goes out of 
their way to stir things up, always target it at the people who fight 
back *IS THE RULE HERE*.


--
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask 
what you can do for our language.


Mark Lawrence

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Re: Python Unicode handling wins again -- mostly


On 11/29/2013 04:44 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:


Out of the nine tests, Python 3.3 passes six, with three tests being
failures or dubious. If you believe that the native string type should
operate on code-points, then you'll think that Python does the right
thing.


I think Python is doing it correctly.  If I want to operate on "clusters" I'll 
normalize the string first.

Thanks for this excellent post.

--
~Ethan~
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Re: Python Unicode handling wins again -- mostly


On 12/2/13 3:38 PM, Ethan Furman wrote:

On 11/29/2013 04:44 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:


Out of the nine tests, Python 3.3 passes six, with three tests being
failures or dubious. If you believe that the native string type should
operate on code-points, then you'll think that Python does the right
thing.


I think Python is doing it correctly.  If I want to operate on
"clusters" I'll normalize the string first.

Thanks for this excellent post.

--
~Ethan~


This is where my knowledge about Unicode gets fuzzy.  Isn't it the case 
that some grapheme clusters (or whatever the right word is) can't be 
normalized down to a single code point?  Characters can accept many 
accents, for example.  In that case, you can't always normalize and use 
the existing string methods, but would need more specialized code.


--Ned.

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Re: using ffmpeg command line with python's subprocess module

2013-12-02 Thread Ben Finney

Chris Angelico  writes:

> On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 10:34 PM, iMath  wrote:
> > ffmpeg -f concat -i <(for f in ./*.wav; do echo "file '$f'"; done) -c copy 
> > output.wav
> > ffmpeg -f concat -i <(printf "file '%s'\n" ./*.wav) -c copy output.wav
> > ffmpeg -f concat -i <(find . -name '*.wav' -printf "file '%p'\n") -c copy 
> > output.wav
>
> In bash, the <(...) notation is like piping: it executes the command
> inside the parentheses and uses that as standard input to ffmpeg.

Not standard input, no. What it does is create a temporary file to
contain the result, and inserts that file name on the command line. This
is good for programs that require an actual file, not standard input.

So the above usage seems right to me: the ‘ffmpeg -i FOO’ option is
provided with a filename dynamically created by Bash, referring to a
temporary file that contains the output of the subshell.

-- 
 \ “Welchen Teil von ‘Gestalt’ verstehen Sie nicht?  [What part of |
  `\‘gestalt’ don't you understand?]” —Karsten M. Self |
_o__)  |
Ben Finney

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Re: Python Unicode handling wins again -- mostly

On Tue, Dec 3, 2013 at 8:14 AM, Ned Batchelder  wrote:
> This is where my knowledge about Unicode gets fuzzy.  Isn't it the case that
> some grapheme clusters (or whatever the right word is) can't be normalized
> down to a single code point?  Characters can accept many accents, for
> example.

You can't normalize everything down to a single code point, but you
can normalize the other way by breaking out everything that can be
broken out.

>>> print(ascii(unicodedata.normalize("NFKC", "ä")))
'\xe4'
>>> print(ascii(unicodedata.normalize("NFKD", "ä")))
'a\u0308'

ChrisA
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Re: using ffmpeg command line with python's subprocess module

On Tue, Dec 3, 2013 at 8:19 AM, Ben Finney  wrote:
> Chris Angelico  writes:
>
>> On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 10:34 PM, iMath  wrote:
>> > ffmpeg -f concat -i <(for f in ./*.wav; do echo "file '$f'"; done) -c copy 
>> > output.wav
>> > ffmpeg -f concat -i <(printf "file '%s'\n" ./*.wav) -c copy output.wav
>> > ffmpeg -f concat -i <(find . -name '*.wav' -printf "file '%p'\n") -c copy 
>> > output.wav
>>
>> In bash, the <(...) notation is like piping: it executes the command
>> inside the parentheses and uses that as standard input to ffmpeg.
>
> Not standard input, no. What it does is create a temporary file to
> contain the result, and inserts that file name on the command line. This
> is good for programs that require an actual file, not standard input.

Ah, sorry, my bad - bit rusty on my arcane bashisms. In any case, the
general point of what I was saying is: Figure out what's happening,
and replicate that. In this case, that means creating a file, then,
rather than putting it on stdin - that's probably actually easier
anyway.

ChrisA
-- 
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Re: Python Unicode handling wins again -- mostly

2013-12-02 Thread MRAB


On 02/12/2013 21:14, Ned Batchelder wrote:

On 12/2/13 3:38 PM, Ethan Furman wrote:

On 11/29/2013 04:44 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:


Out of the nine tests, Python 3.3 passes six, with three tests being
failures or dubious. If you believe that the native string type should
operate on code-points, then you'll think that Python does the right
thing.


I think Python is doing it correctly.  If I want to operate on
"clusters" I'll normalize the string first.

Thanks for this excellent post.

--
~Ethan~


This is where my knowledge about Unicode gets fuzzy.  Isn't it the case
that some grapheme clusters (or whatever the right word is) can't be
normalized down to a single code point?  Characters can accept many
accents, for example.  In that case, you can't always normalize and use
the existing string methods, but would need more specialized code.


A better way of saying it is that there are codepoints for some grapheme
clusters. Those 'precomposed' codepoints exist because some legacy
character sets contained them, and having a one-to-one mapping
encouraged Unicode's adoption.
--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Python Unicode handling wins again -- mostly


On 12/2/13 3:45 PM, Mark Lawrence wrote:

On 02/12/2013 20:26, Terry Reedy wrote:

On 12/2/2013 10:45 AM, Mark Lawrence wrote:


the worst loser in the world


Mark, I consider your continual direct personal attacks on other posters
to be a violation of the PSF Code of Conduct, which *does* apply to
python-list. Please stop.



The attacks that "Joseph McCarthy" has been launching on the core
developers for the last 15 months are in my view now perfectly
acceptable.  This is excellent news.  Everybody can now say what they
like about the core developers and there's no comeback.

You can also stuff the code of conduct, it's quite clearly only brought
into play when it suits.  Never, ever aim it at somebody who goes out of
their way to stir things up, always target it at the people who fight
back *IS THE RULE HERE*.



The point is that in this thread, no one was making attacks on core 
developers.  You were bringing up old animosity here for no reason at 
all, and making them personal attacks to boot.


I don't see how you think wxjmfauth was "going out of his way to stir 
things up" in *this* thread.  He made three comments, none of which 
mentioned the FSR or any other controversial topic.  Can't we respond to 
the content of posts, and not to past offenses by the poster?


Additionally, wxjmfauth's past complaints about the flexible string 
representation were not personal.  He didn't say, "Joe Smith is the 
worst loser in the world for writing the FSR".  He complained about a 
feature of CPython, baselessly, but he never attacked the people doing 
the work.  His continued complaints were aggravating, I agree. I don't 
know that they rose to the level of "disrespectful".


I know that your behavior here is disrespectful.

As to when the code of conduct is brought up, it's only fairly recently 
that it has been mentioned in this forum.  There have clearly been posts 
in recent memory (the last year) which could have been examined in light 
of the code of conduct, and were not. I think we are using it more 
uniformly now. You helped me realize better how to apply it to this 
forum, and I thank you for that.  I welcome your help in applying it 
better still.  But it applies to you as well and I don't think it's too 
much to ask that you abide by it.


The way to improve this list is to respectfully point to and demonstrate 
community norms and ask people to conform to them.  Spewing vitriol 
isn't going to fix anything.


--Ned.


--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Code of Conduct, Trolls, and Thankless Jobs [was Re: Python Unicode handling wins again -- mostly]

On 12/02/2013 12:45 PM, Mark Lawrence wrote:

On 02/12/2013 20:26, Terry Reedy wrote:

On 12/2/2013 10:45 AM, Mark Lawrence wrote:

the worst loser in the world

Mark, I consider your continual direct personal attacks on other posters
to be a violation of the PSF Code of Conduct, which *does* apply to
python-list. Please stop.

The attacks that "Joseph McCarthy" has been launching on the core developers
for the last 15 months are in my view now
perfectly acceptable. This is excellent news. Everybody can now say what they
like about the core developers and
there's no comeback.

You can also stuff the code of conduct, it's quite clearly only brought into
play when it suits. Never, ever aim it at
somebody who goes out of their way to stir things up, always target it at the
people who fight back *IS THE RULE HERE*.

Mark, I sympathize with your feelings. jmf is certainly a troll, and it doesn't feel like anything has been, or is
being, done about that situation (or for that matter, the help vampire situation... although I haven't seen any threads
from that one lately -- did he give up, or has he been moderated away?). However, I would suggest that when you are
venting, you write the email and then just delete it. I personally don't mind the light and humorous posts, but when
the name-calling starts it makes the list an unfriendly place to be. And, to be clear, the coddling of trolls and
help-vampires also makes the list an unfriendly place to be.

Terry, would it be appropriate to share some of what the moderators do do for us on this list and the others? And what
does the Code of Conduct have to say about trolls and help-vampires?

--
~Ethan~
--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Python Unicode handling wins again -- mostly


On 12/02/2013 01:23 PM, Chris Angelico wrote:

On Tue, Dec 3, 2013 at 8:14 AM, Ned Batchelder  wrote:

This is where my knowledge about Unicode gets fuzzy.  Isn't it the case that
some grapheme clusters (or whatever the right word is) can't be normalized
down to a single code point?  Characters can accept many accents, for
example.


You can't normalize everything down to a single code point, but you
can normalize the other way by breaking out everything that can be
broken out.


print(ascii(unicodedata.normalize("NFKC", "ä")))

'\xe4'

print(ascii(unicodedata.normalize("NFKD", "ä")))

'a\u0308'


Well, Stephen was right then!  There's room for a library to handle this 
situation.  Or is there one already?

--
~Ethan~
--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Code of Conduct, Trolls, and Thankless Jobs [was Re: Python Unicode handling wins again -- mostly]


On 02/12/2013 21:25, Ethan Furman wrote:

On 12/02/2013 12:45 PM, Mark Lawrence wrote:

On 02/12/2013 20:26, Terry Reedy wrote:

On 12/2/2013 10:45 AM, Mark Lawrence wrote:


the worst loser in the world


Mark, I consider your continual direct personal attacks on other posters
to be a violation of the PSF Code of Conduct, which *does* apply to
python-list. Please stop.


The attacks that "Joseph McCarthy" has been launching on the core
developers for the last 15 months are in my view now
perfectly acceptable.  This is excellent news.  Everybody can now say
what they like about the core developers and
there's no comeback.

You can also stuff the code of conduct, it's quite clearly only
brought into play when it suits.  Never, ever aim it at
somebody who goes out of their way to stir things up, always target it
at the people who fight back *IS THE RULE HERE*.


Mark,  I sympathize with your feelings.  jmf is certainly a troll, and
it doesn't feel like anything has been, or is being, done about that
situation (or for that matter, the help vampire situation... although I
haven't seen any threads from that one lately -- did he give up, or has
he been moderated away?).  However, I would suggest that when you are
venting, you write the email and then just delete it.  I personally
don't mind the light and humorous posts, but when the name-calling
starts it makes the list an unfriendly place to be.  And, to be clear,
the coddling of trolls and help-vampires also makes the list an
unfriendly place to be.

Terry, would it be appropriate to share some of what the moderators do
do for us on this list and the others?  And what does the Code of
Conduct have to say about trolls and help-vampires?

--
~Ethan~


I deleted the first really spiteful reply, but the hypocrisy that 
continues to be shown gets right up both of my nostrils, hence I 
couldn't resist the above, greatly toned down response.  This will 
surely give an indication of how strongly I feel on issues such as this. 
 Rules are rules to be applied evenly, not on a pick and choose basis.


--
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask 
what you can do for our language.


Mark Lawrence

--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Code of Conduct, Trolls, and Thankless Jobs [was Re: Python Unicode handling wins again -- mostly]


On 12/2/13 4:25 PM, Ethan Furman wrote:

On 12/02/2013 12:45 PM, Mark Lawrence wrote:

On 02/12/2013 20:26, Terry Reedy wrote:

On 12/2/2013 10:45 AM, Mark Lawrence wrote:


the worst loser in the world


Mark, I consider your continual direct personal attacks on other posters
to be a violation of the PSF Code of Conduct, which *does* apply to
python-list. Please stop.


The attacks that "Joseph McCarthy" has been launching on the core
developers for the last 15 months are in my view now
perfectly acceptable.  This is excellent news.  Everybody can now say
what they like about the core developers and
there's no comeback.

You can also stuff the code of conduct, it's quite clearly only
brought into play when it suits.  Never, ever aim it at
somebody who goes out of their way to stir things up, always target it
at the people who fight back *IS THE RULE HERE*.


Mark,  I sympathize with your feelings.  jmf is certainly a troll, and
it doesn't feel like anything has been, or is being, done about that
situation (or for that matter, the help vampire situation... although I
haven't seen any threads from that one lately -- did he give up, or has
he been moderated away?).  However, I would suggest that when you are
venting, you write the email and then just delete it.  I personally
don't mind the light and humorous posts, but when the name-calling
starts it makes the list an unfriendly place to be.  And, to be clear,
the coddling of trolls and help-vampires also makes the list an
unfriendly place to be.

Terry, would it be appropriate to share some of what the moderators do
do for us on this list and the others?  And what does the Code of
Conduct have to say about trolls and help-vampires?

--
~Ethan~


We have pointed help-vampires at the Code of Conduct: 
https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2013-November/660343.html


He's also banned from the mailing list, which reduces the number of 
people who see his questions, and helps keep threads from exploding. For 
example, this message to the newsgroup 
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.lang.python/fdhF_Fr4fX0/9B0iK8jGigkJ (sorry 
for the groups link, didn't know how else to link to a post) doesn't 
appear at all in the mailing list, and therefore, in gmane.


But the mailing list ban isn't why you aren't seeing posts from him: he 
hasn't posted again since that linked message, on Nov 21.


I think he's not posting in part because we adopted a uniform stance of 
politely refusing to answer his questions, or even completely ignoring 
his questions.


Of course, he could be back at any time.  I hope we'll continue to 
present a calm unified front.


--Ned.

--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Python Unicode handling wins again -- mostly


On 12/2/13 4:44 PM, Ned Batchelder wrote:

On 12/2/13 3:45 PM, Mark Lawrence wrote:

On 02/12/2013 20:26, Terry Reedy wrote:

On 12/2/2013 10:45 AM, Mark Lawrence wrote:


the worst loser in the world


Mark, I consider your continual direct personal attacks on other posters
to be a violation of the PSF Code of Conduct, which *does* apply to
python-list. Please stop.



The attacks that "Joseph McCarthy" has been launching on the core
developers for the last 15 months are in my view now perfectly
acceptable.  This is excellent news.  Everybody can now say what they
like about the core developers and there's no comeback.

You can also stuff the code of conduct, it's quite clearly only brought
into play when it suits.  Never, ever aim it at somebody who goes out of
their way to stir things up, always target it at the people who fight
back *IS THE RULE HERE*.



The point is that in this thread, no one was making attacks on core
developers.  You were bringing up old animosity here for no reason at
all, and making them personal attacks to boot.

I don't see how you think wxjmfauth was "going out of his way to stir
things up" in *this* thread.  He made three comments, none of which
mentioned the FSR or any other controversial topic.  Can't we respond to
the content of posts, and not to past offenses by the poster?

Additionally, wxjmfauth's past complaints about the flexible string
representation were not personal.  He didn't say, "Joe Smith is the
worst loser in the world for writing the FSR".  He complained about a
feature of CPython, baselessly, but he never attacked the people doing
the work.  His continued complaints were aggravating, I agree. I don't
know that they rose to the level of "disrespectful".

I know that your behavior here is disrespectful.

As to when the code of conduct is brought up, it's only fairly recently
that it has been mentioned in this forum.  There have clearly been posts
in recent memory (the last year) which could have been examined in light
of the code of conduct, and were not. I think we are using it more
uniformly now. You helped me realize better how to apply it to this
forum, and I thank you for that.  I welcome your help in applying it
better still.  But it applies to you as well and I don't think it's too
much to ask that you abide by it.

The way to improve this list is to respectfully point to and demonstrate
community norms and ask people to conform to them.  Spewing vitriol
isn't going to fix anything.

--Ned.




BTW: I think Mark has kill-filed me, so if anyone agrees enough with me 
here to want Mark to see it, someone else will have to respond before he 
gets the text.


--Ned.

--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Python Unicode handling wins again -- mostly


On 02/12/2013 22:24, Ned Batchelder wrote:

On 12/2/13 4:44 PM, Ned Batchelder wrote:

On 12/2/13 3:45 PM, Mark Lawrence wrote:

On 02/12/2013 20:26, Terry Reedy wrote:

On 12/2/2013 10:45 AM, Mark Lawrence wrote:


the worst loser in the world


Mark, I consider your continual direct personal attacks on other
posters
to be a violation of the PSF Code of Conduct, which *does* apply to
python-list. Please stop.



The attacks that "Joseph McCarthy" has been launching on the core
developers for the last 15 months are in my view now perfectly
acceptable.  This is excellent news.  Everybody can now say what they
like about the core developers and there's no comeback.

You can also stuff the code of conduct, it's quite clearly only brought
into play when it suits.  Never, ever aim it at somebody who goes out of
their way to stir things up, always target it at the people who fight
back *IS THE RULE HERE*.



The point is that in this thread, no one was making attacks on core
developers.  You were bringing up old animosity here for no reason at
all, and making them personal attacks to boot.

I don't see how you think wxjmfauth was "going out of his way to stir
things up" in *this* thread.  He made three comments, none of which
mentioned the FSR or any other controversial topic.  Can't we respond to
the content of posts, and not to past offenses by the poster?

Additionally, wxjmfauth's past complaints about the flexible string
representation were not personal.  He didn't say, "Joe Smith is the
worst loser in the world for writing the FSR".  He complained about a
feature of CPython, baselessly, but he never attacked the people doing
the work.  His continued complaints were aggravating, I agree. I don't
know that they rose to the level of "disrespectful".

I know that your behavior here is disrespectful.

As to when the code of conduct is brought up, it's only fairly recently
that it has been mentioned in this forum.  There have clearly been posts
in recent memory (the last year) which could have been examined in light
of the code of conduct, and were not. I think we are using it more
uniformly now. You helped me realize better how to apply it to this
forum, and I thank you for that.  I welcome your help in applying it
better still.  But it applies to you as well and I don't think it's too
much to ask that you abide by it.

The way to improve this list is to respectfully point to and demonstrate
community norms and ask people to conform to them.  Spewing vitriol
isn't going to fix anything.

--Ned.




BTW: I think Mark has kill-filed me, so if anyone agrees enough with me
here to want Mark to see it, someone else will have to respond before he
gets the text.

--Ned.



I've kill-filed you on my personnal email address which I asked you 
specifically *NOT* to message me on.  You completely ignored that 
request.  FTR you're only the second person I've ever done that to, the 
other being a pot smoking hippy who thankfully hasn't been seen for years.


--
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask 
what you can do for our language.


Mark Lawrence

--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

multiprocessing: child process share changes to global variable

2013-12-02 Thread Alan

In the code below, child processes see changes to global variables caused by 
other child processes. That is, pool.map is producing a list where the value of 
``lst`` is being (non-deterministically) shared across child processes.  
Standard advice is that, "Processes have independent memory space" and "each 
process works with its own copy" of global variables, so I thought this was not 
supposed to happen. In the end, the globals are not changed, which matches my 
expectation. Still, clearly I have misunderstood what seemed to be standard 
advice.  Can someone clarify for me?

Expected result from pool.map: [[0],[1],[2]]
Usual result: [[0],[0,1],[0,1,2]]
Occasional result: [[0],[1],[0,2]]

Thanks,
Alan Isaac


#--- temp.py -
#run at Python 2.7 command prompt
import time
import multiprocessing as mp
lst = []
lstlst = []

def alist(x):
lst.append(x)
lstlst.append(lst)
print "a"
return lst

if __name__=='__main__':
pool = mp.Pool(3)
print pool.map(alist,range(3)) #UNEXPECTED RESULTS
print "b"
time.sleep(0.1)

print "c"
print lst
print lstlst
-- 
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Re: Python Unicode handling wins again -- mostly


On 12/2/13 5:32 PM, Mark Lawrence wrote:

On 02/12/2013 22:24, Ned Batchelder wrote:

On 12/2/13 4:44 PM, Ned Batchelder wrote:

On 12/2/13 3:45 PM, Mark Lawrence wrote:

On 02/12/2013 20:26, Terry Reedy wrote:

On 12/2/2013 10:45 AM, Mark Lawrence wrote:


the worst loser in the world


Mark, I consider your continual direct personal attacks on other
posters
to be a violation of the PSF Code of Conduct, which *does* apply to
python-list. Please stop.



The attacks that "Joseph McCarthy" has been launching on the core
developers for the last 15 months are in my view now perfectly
acceptable.  This is excellent news.  Everybody can now say what they
like about the core developers and there's no comeback.

You can also stuff the code of conduct, it's quite clearly only brought
into play when it suits.  Never, ever aim it at somebody who goes
out of
their way to stir things up, always target it at the people who fight
back *IS THE RULE HERE*.



The point is that in this thread, no one was making attacks on core
developers.  You were bringing up old animosity here for no reason at
all, and making them personal attacks to boot.

I don't see how you think wxjmfauth was "going out of his way to stir
things up" in *this* thread.  He made three comments, none of which
mentioned the FSR or any other controversial topic.  Can't we respond to
the content of posts, and not to past offenses by the poster?

Additionally, wxjmfauth's past complaints about the flexible string
representation were not personal.  He didn't say, "Joe Smith is the
worst loser in the world for writing the FSR".  He complained about a
feature of CPython, baselessly, but he never attacked the people doing
the work.  His continued complaints were aggravating, I agree. I don't
know that they rose to the level of "disrespectful".

I know that your behavior here is disrespectful.

As to when the code of conduct is brought up, it's only fairly recently
that it has been mentioned in this forum.  There have clearly been posts
in recent memory (the last year) which could have been examined in light
of the code of conduct, and were not. I think we are using it more
uniformly now. You helped me realize better how to apply it to this
forum, and I thank you for that.  I welcome your help in applying it
better still.  But it applies to you as well and I don't think it's too
much to ask that you abide by it.

The way to improve this list is to respectfully point to and demonstrate
community norms and ask people to conform to them.  Spewing vitriol
isn't going to fix anything.

--Ned.




BTW: I think Mark has kill-filed me, so if anyone agrees enough with me
here to want Mark to see it, someone else will have to respond before he
gets the text.

--Ned.



I've kill-filed you on my personnal email address which I asked you
specifically *NOT* to message me on.  You completely ignored that
request.  FTR you're only the second person I've ever done that to, the
other being a pot smoking hippy who thankfully hasn't been seen for years.



Yes, I've apologized for that faux pas. I hope that you can forgive me. 
 Someday I hope to understand why it angered you so much.  Good to hear 
that we can communicate here.


--Ned.

--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Python Unicode handling wins again -- mostly

2013-12-02 Thread Ben Finney

Ned Batchelder  writes:

> This is where my knowledge about Unicode gets fuzzy.  Isn't it the
> case that some grapheme clusters (or whatever the right word is) can't
> be normalized down to a single code point?  Characters can accept many
> accents, for example.

That's true, but doesn't affect the point being made: that one can have
both “sequence of Unicode code points” in Python's ‘unicode’ (now ‘str’)
type, and also deal with “sequence of text the reader will see”.

> In that case, you can't always normalize and use the existing string
> methods, but would need more specialized code.

Specialised code may not be needed. It will at least be true that “any
two code-point sequences which normalise to the same value will be
visually the same for the reader”, which is an important assertion for
addressing the complaints from Mortoray's article.

-- 
 \   “Pray, v. To ask that the laws of the universe be annulled in |
  `\ behalf of a single petitioner confessedly unworthy.” —Ambrose |
_o__)   Bierce, _The Devil's Dictionary_, 1906 |
Ben Finney

-- 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Code of Conduct, Trolls, and Thankless Jobs

2013-12-02 Thread Ben Finney

Mark Lawrence  writes:

> […] the hypocrisy that continues to be shown gets right up both of my
> nostrils, hence I couldn't resist the above, greatly toned down
> response. This will surely give an indication of how strongly I feel
> on issues such as this. Rules are rules to be applied evenly, not on a
> pick and choose basis.

This forum doesn't have authorised moderators, and we don't have a body
of state employees charged with meting out justice evenly to all
parties. If you perceive uneven application of our code of conduct, that
will go a long way to explaining it.

What we do have is a community of volunteers whom we expect to both
uphold the code of conduct and self-apply it to the extent feasible.

This works only if we acknowledge both that we are human and will be
inconsistent and make errors, and conversely that what we *intend* to do
matters less than the actual and potential effects of our actions.

Anyone who feels compelled to be vitriolic here needs to find a way to
stop it, regardless how they perceive the treatment of others. We all
need each other's efforts to keep this community healthy.

-- 
 \  “I don't know half of you half as well as I should like, and I |
  `\   like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.” —Bilbo |
_o__)  Baggins |
Ben Finney

-- 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Python Unicode handling wins again -- mostly


On 12/02/2013 02:32 PM, Mark Lawrence wrote:


... the other being a pot smoking hippy who ...


Please trim your posts.  You comment a lot on people sending double-spaced 
google posts -- not trimming is nearly as bad.

The above is a good example of unnecessary name calling.

I value your good posts.  Please keep a light-hearted and respectful tone.  When light-hearted doesn't cut it, you can 
still be respectful (of the other readers, even if the offender doesn't deserve it).


--
~Ethan~
--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: [OT] Managing Google Groups headaches

2013-12-02 Thread Michael Torrie

On 12/02/2013 06:03 AM, Neil Cerutti wrote:
> I wish they'd never bought dejanews.

I wish Google hadn't bought a lot of things.  Seems like they bye up a
lot of cool, nerd-centric apps and companies and then turned them into
apps that do less and do it poorly, but in a slick way that appeals to
the unwashed masses.  And add "social" to it.  Great for their bottom
line, but horrible for those of us that actually use things as tools.

Besides the dejanews thing, another one is Google Voice.  Used to be a
great tool but now they are trying to integrate it with Google Hangouts,
reduce its functionality, reduce interoperability, and otherwise ruin
it.  I fear next year is the last year for Google Voice in any usable
form for me.  Might just have to bite the bullet and set up my own PBX
and pay for a voip provider and port my google voice number over to it.
 I'd hate to lose the number; I've used it since Grand Central times.

And Gmail is also becoming less useful to me.  I don't want to use
hangouts; xmpp and google talk worked just fine.  But alas that's
disappearing.

And the list goes on.
-- 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: using ffmpeg command line with python's subprocess module

2013-12-02 Thread iMath

在 2013年12月3日星期二UTC+8上午5时19分21秒，Ben Finney写道：
> Chris Angelico  writes:
> 
> 
> 
> > On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 10:34 PM, iMath  wrote:
> 
> > > ffmpeg -f concat -i <(for f in ./*.wav; do echo "file '$f'"; done) -c 
> > > copy output.wav
> 
> > > ffmpeg -f concat -i <(printf "file '%s'\n" ./*.wav) -c copy output.wav
> 
> > > ffmpeg -f concat -i <(find . -name '*.wav' -printf "file '%p'\n") -c copy 
> > > output.wav
> 
> >
> 
> > In bash, the <(...) notation is like piping: it executes the command
> 
> > inside the parentheses and uses that as standard input to ffmpeg.
> 
> 
> 
> Not standard input, no. What it does is create a temporary file to
> 
> contain the result, and inserts that file name on the command line. This
> 
> is good for programs that require an actual file, not standard input.
> 
> 
> 
> So the above usage seems right to me: the ‘ffmpeg -i FOO’ option is
> 
> provided with a filename dynamically created by Bash, referring to a
> 
> temporary file that contains the output of the subshell.
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
>  \ “Welchen Teil von ‘Gestalt’ verstehen Sie nicht?  [What part of |
> 
>   `\‘gestalt’ don't you understand?]” —Karsten M. Self |
> 
> _o__)  |
> 
> Ben Finney

so is there any way to create a temporary file by Python here ?
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Re: Code of Conduct, Trolls, and Thankless Jobs [was Re: Python Unicode handling wins again -- mostly]

2013-12-02 Thread Roy Smith

In article ,
 Mark Lawrence  wrote:

> My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask 
> what you can do for our language.

"I believe that Pythonistas should commit themselves to achieving the 
goal, before this decade is out, of making Python 3 the default version 
and having everybody be cool with unicode."
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Using MFDataset to combine netcdf files in python

2013-12-02 Thread Isaac Won

I am trying to combine netcdf files, but it contifuously shows " File 
"CBL_plot.py", line 11, in f = MFDataset(fili) File "utils.pyx", line 274, in 
netCDF4.MFDataset.init (netCDF4.c:3822) IOError: master dataset THref_11:00.nc 
does not have a aggregation dimension."

So, I checked only one netcdf files and the information of a netcdf file is as 
below:

float64 th_ref(u't',) unlimited dimensions = () current size = (30,)

It looks there is no aggregation dimension. However, I would like to combine 
those netcdf files rather than just using one by one. Is there any way to 
create aggregation dimension to make this MFData set work?

Below is the python code I used:
import numpy as np
from netCDF4 import MFDataset
varn = 'th_ref'
fili = THref_*nc'
f= MFDataset(fili)
Th  = f.variables[varn]
Th_ref=np.array(Th[:])
print Th.shape

I will really appreciate any help, idea, and hint.

Thank you, Isaac
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Re: using ffmpeg command line with python's subprocess module

On Tuesday, December 3, 2013 6:45:42 AM UTC+5:30, iMath wrote:
> so is there any way to create a temporary file by Python here ?

http://docs.python.org/2/library/tempfile.html
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Re: [OT] Managing Google Groups headaches

2013-12-02 Thread Roy Smith

In article ,
 Michael Torrie  wrote:

> I wish Google hadn't bought a lot of things.  Seems like they bye up a
> lot of cool, nerd-centric apps and companies and then turned them into
> apps that do less and do it poorly, but in a slick way that appeals to
> the unwashed masses.  And add "social" to it.  Great for their bottom
> line, but horrible for those of us that actually use things as tools.

And this is surprising, why?
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Re: [OT] Managing Google Groups headaches

On Tuesday, December 3, 2013 7:13:03 AM UTC+5:30, Roy Smith wrote:
>  Michael Torrie  wrote:
> > I wish Google hadn't bought a lot of things.  Seems like they bye up a
> > lot of cool, nerd-centric apps and companies and then turned them into
> > apps that do less and do it poorly, but in a slick way that appeals to
> > the unwashed masses.  And add "social" to it.  Great for their bottom
> > line, but horrible for those of us that actually use things as tools.
> And this is surprising, why?

Something floating around here (was it Ben Finney's footer??) went
something like: 

We must expect it; else we would be surprised

Put differently: One evidence of being awake (and not in dreamland) is 
surprise

A directly related piece by Nicholas Carr
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2008/07/is-google-making-us-stupid/306868/

Relevant at a deeper level is his "IT doesn't matter"
http://www.roughtype.com/?p=644

We software professionals cannot agree with this and keep our 
self-respect/sanity/identity. However its true; so denial remains the
only option.
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Pythonista Goals [was Re: Code of Conduct, Trolls, and Thankless Jobs]


On 12/02/2013 05:38 PM, Roy Smith wrote:

Mark Lawrence wrote:


My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
what you can do for our language.


"I believe that Pythonistas should commit themselves to achieving the
goal, before this decade is out, of making Python 3 the default version
and having everybody be cool with unicode."


Hear, Hear!

+1000!  :D

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Re: [OT] Managing Google Groups headaches

2013-12-02 Thread Michael Torrie

On 12/02/2013 06:43 PM, Roy Smith wrote:
> In article ,
>  Michael Torrie  wrote:
> 
>> I wish Google hadn't bought a lot of things.  Seems like they bye up a
>> lot of cool, nerd-centric apps and companies and then turned them into
>> apps that do less and do it poorly, but in a slick way that appeals to
>> the unwashed masses.  And add "social" to it.  Great for their bottom
>> line, but horrible for those of us that actually use things as tools.
> 
> And this is surprising, why?

Well back when Google was a young hip company they billed themselves as
a bunch of nerds making stuff for nerds.  But yes we should have seen
this coming.
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Re: Code of Conduct, Trolls, and Thankless Jobs [was Re: Python Unicode handling wins again -- mostly]

2013-12-02 Thread Terry Reedy


On 12/2/2013 4:25 PM, Ethan Furman wrote:

jmf is certainly a troll


No, he is a person who discovered a minor performance regression in the 
FSR, which we fixed. Unfortunately, he then continued for a year with a 
strange troll-like anti-FSR crusade. But his posts in the Unicode 
handling thread were not part of that. It seems to me that continually 
beating someone over the head with the past discourages changed 
behavior.  To me, the point of asking someone to 'stop' is to persuade 
them to stop. The reward for stopping should be to let the issue go.



haven't seen any threads from that one lately -- did he give up, or has
he been moderated away?).


Action was taken, including changing the usenet (clr) to mailing-list 
gateway. (I already mentioned this twice here.) The was done by one of 
the mailman infrastructure people at the request of the list 
owner/moderators. The people who stuck their necks out to privately 
contact the person in question displeased him and got privately 
mail-bombed with repeated insults. I guess he subsequently gave up.



the coddling of trolls and help-vampires also makes the list an
unfriendly place to be.


I agree with the that as a statement, but not the implication. Was I 
hallucinating, or did you not recently participate in the discussion and 
decision to stop coddling our most obnoxious 'troll' in the community?



Terry, would it be appropriate to share some of what the moderators do
do for us on this list and the others?


Python-list moderators discard perhaps one spam post a day. You already 
noticed a recent major benefit.



And what does the Code of
Conduct have to say about trolls and help-vampires?


I need to re-read it to really answer that adequately. The term and 
defined concept 'help-vampire' is new to me (as of a month ago) and 
probably to the CoC writers.  However, the behavior strikes me as 
disrespectful of the community, and that *is* generically covered.


--
Terry Jan Reedy

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Re: [OT] Managing Google Groups headaches

On Tuesday, December 3, 2013 8:39:02 AM UTC+5:30, Michael Torrie wrote:
> On 12/02/2013 06:43 PM, Roy Smith wrote:
> > And this is surprising, why?
>
> Well back when Google was a young hip company they billed themselves as
> a bunch of nerds making stuff for nerds.  But yes we should have seen
> this coming.

So were Bill Gates and Jobs -- nerdy youths.
We tend to not think them so because they are an earlier generation.
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Re: Code of Conduct, Trolls, and Thankless Jobs

2013-12-02 Thread Terry Reedy


On 12/2/2013 6:11 PM, Ben Finney wrote:


This forum doesn't have authorised moderators,


At least some PSF mailing lists have 1 or more PSF-authorized moderators 
(currently 4 for python-list) who pretty thanklessly check the initial 
posts of new subscribers and posts flagged by the spam detector as 
possible spam, or with other problems. We do not have 'every-post' 
moderation.



If you perceive uneven application of our code of conduct,


As far as I know, there has been just one non-spam application of CoC
to python-list: Nikos. I do not see how anyone could call that uneven or 
unfair.


--
Terry Jan Reedy

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Re: [OT] Managing Google Groups headaches

2013-12-02 Thread Grant Edwards

On 2013-12-03, Michael Torrie  wrote:
> On 12/02/2013 06:03 AM, Neil Cerutti wrote:
>> I wish they'd never bought dejanews.
>
> I wish Google hadn't bought a lot of things.  Seems like they bye up a
> lot of cool, nerd-centric apps and companies and then turned them into
> apps that do less and do it poorly,

Or they just shut them down.  I still wish SageTv was in business. My
SageTv stuff is still running fine, but I don't know what I'm going to
do when it dies.  I guess I'll have to go back to Mytv and the
associated huge, loud, noisy front-end boxes.

That said, I'm still pretty happy with Gmail (I use it mostly via
mutt/IMAP rather than the WebUI), and it sure beats the e-mail service
I paid for in the past [it's certainly _way_ better than the Outlook
server they run at work].  The Google search engine still works fine
for me, and my Nexus Galaxy phone has been great.

-- 
Grant

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Re: Code of Conduct, Trolls, and Thankless Jobs [was Re: Python Unicode handling wins again -- mostly]

2013-12-02 Thread Grant Edwards

On 2013-12-03, Roy Smith  wrote:

> "I believe that Pythonistas should commit themselves to achieving the 
> goal, before this decade is out, of making Python 3 the default version 
> and having everybody be cool with unicode."

I'm cool with Unicode as long as it "just works" without me ever
having to understand it and I can interact effortlessly with plain old
ASCII files.  Evertime I start to read anything about Unicode with any
technical detail at all, I start to get dizzy and bleed from the ears.

-- 
Grant

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Re: Code of Conduct, Trolls, and Thankless Jobs [was Re: Python Unicode handling wins again -- mostly]


On 12/02/2013 07:22 PM, Terry Reedy wrote:

On 12/2/2013 4:25 PM, Ethan Furman wrote:

jmf is certainly a troll


No, he is a person who discovered a minor performance regression in the FSR, 
which we fixed. Unfortunately, he then
continued for a year with a strange troll-like anti-FSR crusade. But his posts 
in the Unicode handling thread were not
part of that. It seems to me that continually beating someone over the head 
with the past discourages changed behavior.
To me, the point of asking someone to 'stop' is to persuade them to stop. The 
reward for stopping should be to let the
issue go.


I remember it slightly differently, but you're right -- we should let it drop.



the coddling of trolls and help-vampires also makes the list an
unfriendly place to be.


I agree with the that as a statement, but not the implication. Was I 
hallucinating, or did you not recently participate
in the discussion and decision to stop coddling our most obnoxious 'troll' in 
the community?


I'm afraid I don't see the point you are trying to make.  I'm against coddling those who refuse to learn and participate 
with respect to the rest of us, and I did vote to stop such coddling [1] of a certain troll.  I don't see the discrepancy.


All that aside, thank you to you and the other moderators for your time and 
efforts.

--
~Ethan~

[1] Coddling can be an offensive word, and I wish to make clear that initial efforts to educate and help newcomers are 
appropriate and warranted.  However, after some time has passed and the newcomer is no longer a newcomer and is still 
exhibiting rude and ignorant behavior, further attempts to help most likely won't, and that is when I would classify 
such attempts as coddling.


--
~Ethan~
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Re: Python Unicode handling wins again -- mostly

2013-12-02 Thread Steven D'Aprano

On Mon, 02 Dec 2013 16:14:13 -0500, Ned Batchelder wrote:

> On 12/2/13 3:38 PM, Ethan Furman wrote:
>> On 11/29/2013 04:44 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>>>
>>> Out of the nine tests, Python 3.3 passes six, with three tests being
>>> failures or dubious. If you believe that the native string type should
>>> operate on code-points, then you'll think that Python does the right
>>> thing.
>>
>> I think Python is doing it correctly.  If I want to operate on
>> "clusters" I'll normalize the string first.
>>
>> Thanks for this excellent post.
>>
>> --
>> ~Ethan~
> 
> This is where my knowledge about Unicode gets fuzzy.  Isn't it the case
> that some grapheme clusters (or whatever the right word is) can't be
> normalized down to a single code point?  Characters can accept many
> accents, for example.  In that case, you can't always normalize and use
> the existing string methods, but would need more specialized code.

That is correct.

If Unicode had a distinct code point for every possible combination of 
base-character plus an arbitrary number of diacritics or accents, the 
0x10 code points wouldn't be anywhere near enough.

I see over 300 diacritics used just in the first 5000 code points. Let's 
pretend that's only 100, and that you can use up to a maximum of 5 at a 
time. That gives 79375496 combinations per base character, much larger 
than the total number of Unicode code points in total.

If anyone wishes to check my logic:

# count distinct combining chars
import unicodedata
s = ''.join(chr(i) for i in range(33, 5000))
s = unicodedata.normalize('NFD', s)
t = [c for c in s if unicodedata.combining(c)]
len(set(t))

# calculate the number of combinations
def comb(r, n):
"""Combinations nCr"""
p = 1
for i in range(r+1, n+1):
p *= i
for i in range(1, n-r+1):
p /= i
return p

sum(comb(i, 100) for i in range(6))

I'm not suggesting that all of those accents are necessarily in use in 
the real world, but there are languages which construct arbitrary 
combinations of accents. (Or so I have been lead to believe.) 

-- 
Steven
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Re: Code of Conduct, Trolls, and Thankless Jobs [was Re: Python Unicode handling wins again -- mostly]

2013-12-02 Thread Steven D'Aprano

On Tue, 03 Dec 2013 04:32:13 +, Grant Edwards wrote:

> On 2013-12-03, Roy Smith  wrote:
> 
>> "I believe that Pythonistas should commit themselves to achieving the
>> goal, before this decade is out, of making Python 3 the default version
>> and having everybody be cool with unicode."
> 
> I'm cool with Unicode as long as it "just works" without me ever having
> to understand it 

That will never happen. Unicode is a bit like floating point maths: 
there's always *some* odd corner case that will lead to annoyance and 
confusion and even murder:

http://gizmodo.com/382026/a-cellphones-missing-dot-kills-two-people-puts-three-more-in-jail

And then there are legacy encodings. There are three things in life that 
are inevitable: death, taxes, and text with the wrong encoding. Anyone 
dealing with text they didn't generate themselves is going to have to 
deal with mojibake at some point.

Having said that, if you control the text and always use UTF-8 for 
storage and transmission, Unicode isn't that hard. Decode bytes to 
Unicode as early as possible, do all your work in text rather than bytes, 
then encode back to bytes as late as possible, and you'll be fine.

> and I can interact effortlessly with plain old ASCII files.  

That at least is easy, provided you can guarantee that what you think if 
plain ol' ASCII actually is plain ol' ASCII, which isn't as easy as you 
might think given that an awful lot of people think that "extended ASCII" 
is a thing and that you ought to be able to deal with it just like ASCII.

> Evertime I start to read anything about Unicode with any
> technical detail at all, I start to get dizzy and bleed from the ears.

Heh, the standard certainly covers a lot of ground.

-- 
Steven
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Re: [OT] Managing Google Groups headaches

2013-12-02 Thread alex23


On 3/12/2013 11:17 AM, Michael Torrie wrote:

And Gmail is also becoming less useful to me.  I don't want to use
hangouts; xmpp and google talk worked just fine.  But alas that's
disappearing.


I really hate Hangouts. If I wanted to use Skype I would be using Skype.

I'm also still unable to understand why Google scrapped Reader and kept 
Groups, although I suspect it's because the latter will eventually 
integrate more closely with Plus & Hangouts.


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Re: [OT] Managing Google Groups headaches

2013-12-02 Thread Steven D'Aprano

On Tue, 03 Dec 2013 16:30:05 +1000, alex23 wrote:

> On 3/12/2013 11:17 AM, Michael Torrie wrote:
>> And Gmail is also becoming less useful to me.  I don't want to use
>> hangouts; xmpp and google talk worked just fine.  But alas that's
>> disappearing.
> 
> I really hate Hangouts. If I wanted to use Skype I would be using Skype.
> 
> I'm also still unable to understand why Google scrapped Reader and kept
> Groups, although I suspect it's because the latter will eventually
> integrate more closely with Plus & Hangouts.

Not aimed specifically at either Michael or Alex, but a general 
observation aimed at you all.

You poor fools you, this is what happens when you give control of the 
tools you use to a (near) monopolist whose incentives are not your 
incentives.

I mean, Microsoft was bad enough, but they could never reach through the 
aether into your computer and remove software they no longer wanted you 
to use. The worst that could happen was that they would stop supporting 
it and you'd be stuck with old obsolete hardware running old obsolete 
software that nevertheless did exactly what you want. Google, on the 
other hand, can and will take away software that you use.

-- 
Steven
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Re: [OT] Managing Google Groups headaches