Re: [Python-Dev] [Pydotorg] Do we need both Trac and Roundup?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Do people think it would be worthwhile to merge the Trac tracker content > (the issue tracker that holds tickets related to the python.org website) > into the Roundup tracker (the issue tracker that holds tickets related to > Python the language)? While they are nominally distinct activities, it > seems to me that we must waste some precious resources (mostly people) > maintaining two mostly disjoint trackers. There is also some functionality > overlap, mostly in the documentation area. It would be great to merge into Roundup. The Trac instance is ancient and I've not had the time to try to upgrade it, which would indeed now be a waste of effort. When Roundup is ready, please let me know and I can at least make a pass through the pydotorg tickets to close those that aren't worth moving over to Roundup. There are quite a few stale and questionable items. In fact, it wouldn't be the end of the world to discard almost all of them, but still worth a review. - Stephan ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Re: Re: 2.4 news reaches interesting places
On Mon, 13 Dec 2004, Carlos Ribeiro wrote: > On Sun, 12 Dec 2004 20:36:45 -0500, Barry Warsaw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Actually, there's another problem in the corporate world that has > > nothing to do with Python's performance (at least not directly). When a > > manager has to hire 25 programmers for a project they think to > > themselves, "well, Java programmers are a dime a dozen so I'll have no > > problem finding warm bodies if we write it in Java. Can I even /find/ > > 25 Python programmers?" > > You're right, specially for big corporations. But in the end, we're > just running in circles: it's hard to get new programmers to learn > Python, partly because it's in low demand, and partly because the > language has an totally undeserved fame of being slow. The perception-of-speed issue is clearly important but we're definately not running in circles. There are quite a few signs that the Python user base is expanding substantially. For example, a September article in InfoWorld said "But the big winner this time around is the object-oriented scripting language Python, which saw a 6 percent gain in popularity, almost doubling last year's results." http://www.infoworld.com/article/04/09/24/39FErrdev_1.html?s=feature Also, there are companies that have hundreds of Python programmers, like some of those that have done success stories: http://www.pythonology.org/success That doesn't mean the perception that you can't hire 25 at once isn't a problem, but clearly some companies know that turning someone into a Python programmer is easy enough to offset the smaller available pool. To counter speed claims, look at articles like this one: http://www.pythonology.org/success&story=suzanne "Python helps AFNIC manage over 10,000 internet domain name registration requests per minute in a landrush for the ".fr" top-level internet domain" Yes it would be nice to have more of these, where performance is mentioned in the summary! Please contact me if you can contribute one. BTW, I can't resist my own favorite speed anecdote: I once wrote a one-off script to process down a couple of gigabytes of variously fragmented web logs into month-by-month files. I thought I was being naive doing f.readline() in a for loop with some date parsing code for each entry. But I was completely astounded how fast it processed -- and it just worked the first time around. - Stephan ___ Python-Dev mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
RE: [Python-Dev] Re: Re: 2.4 news reaches interesting places
On Mon, 13 Dec 2004, Batista, Facundo wrote: > [Stephan Deibel] > > #- For example, a September article in InfoWorld said "But the > #- big winner > #- this time around is the object-oriented scripting language > #- Python, which > #- saw a 6 percent gain in popularity, almost doubling last > #- year's results." > > How big are the chances that SourceForge numbers actually could be > extrapolated to the rest of the universe? Not very good, I think. I suspect the vast majority of programmers have never heard of source forge. I'm actually surprised that it's only 4.7% on source forge -- that seems to indicate Python is doing quite a bit better in the non-open source world than on SF. Interesting... wouldn't be surprised if this is because the speed myth has stronger hold among hacker types than business programmer types. If people feel this is getting off-topic for python-dev, there is also the mostly dormant marketing-python list: http://wingware.com/mailman/listinfo/marketing-python (the trolls have been removed) - Stephan ___ Python-Dev mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Re: Re: 2.4 news reaches interesting places
On Mon, 13 Dec 2004, Jeremy Hylton wrote: > > http://www.infoworld.com/article/04/09/24/39FErrdev_1.html?s=feature > > Can we extrapolate from the numbers here to get an estimate of how > many Python developers there are? I was asked for that number at > workshop a few months ago and I didn't have any idea how to answer. > Is there a good answer? > > Two possibilities come to mind. 1) 14% of developers in the survey > work at companies that use Python. How many developers are there? > Assume that 14% of them use Python. But what's a good estimate for > "number of developers." Pretty rough -- number of survey respondents > at company != number of Python programmers at company, and %age > companies != %age of programmers. Supposedly there are 5-6 million developers world-wide (by various estimates; I've no idea whether to believe them). If you just multiply out naively you get 700K-840K Python programmers. There certainly are vastly more one person Python projects than large ones, so this may not be all that far off. > 2) 64% of companies use Java, 4.5 > times more than Python. Find out how many Java programmers there are, > divide by 4.5. I've seen claims of 3-4 million java programmers so that's 666K-888K Python programmers. Interestingly, this matches up with the above abuse of statistics. Independently by various other techniques of wildly guesstimating over the years, I've come to a current figure of about 350K serious Python projects world-wide. Many are single-person projects so this does mesh w/in an order of magnitude with the above. - Stephan ___ Python-Dev mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Re: Re: 2.4 news reaches interesting places
On Wed, 15 Dec 2004, Aahz wrote: > On Tue, Dec 14, 2004, Gregory P. Smith wrote: > >Attribution deleted: > >> > >> No one disagrees that Python needs better marketing material. At the > >> last PyCon a group of people sat down in a pydotorg BoF and agreed > >> that yes, we do need a management-friendly marketing site, and that we > >> could put it on a separate hostname (something.python.org) so that the > >> current www.python.org wouldn't have to be changed. > >> > >> However, no one has actually sat down and written such a site, or even > >> outlined it. Let me encourage you to go ahead and do that. You could > >> draft the outline on a Wiki page, and then later figure out an > >> attractive design and organization for a new site. > > > > suggested hostname: why.python.org > > This is where the process always gets bogged down. :-( Once we have > material, that's the time to start arguing about where it should go. Absolutely. Content first, details later. Incidentally, I keep offering: Anyone that actually takes this on should feel free to rip off content from http://wingware.com/python -- I'm not saying this is the best content or the most complete but it's a start anyway (I wrote it in case that wasn't clear ;-) Incidentally, if someone does get excited about working on this, check with me or another PSF board member. - Stephan ___ Python-Dev mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Replacement for print in Python 3.0
On Sun, 4 Sep 2005, Guido van Rossum wrote: > But more important to me are my own experiences exploring the > boundaries of print. > > - I quite often come to a point in the evolution of a program where I > need to change all print statements into logging calls, or calls into > some other I/O or UI library. [...] FWIW, this almost always happens to me. Although I've learned to avoid print in most cases, it was a somewhat painful lesson that seems quite at odds with how the rest of Python is designed -- usually, stuff just works and you aren't led into such design traps. - Stephan ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Replacement for print in Python 3.0
On Mon, 5 Sep 2005, Martin Blais wrote: > However, there is an easy way out: hijack sys.stdout to forward to > your logger system. > I've got a web application framework that's setup like that right now, > it works great (if you will not need the original print-to-stdout > anymore in your program, that is). I print, it goes to the logfile. > You just have to be careful where--in time-- you replace sys.stdout. Sure, and indeed I've done that often enough but it's kind of ugly and doesn't help if you merge bodies of code where some stuff should go to a log, some to stdout, some elsewhere. Hmm, maybe I'd end up avoiding the builtin print() as well, or at least need to pass around the stream where I want output. The general problem of not tying code to a particular output stream is what I'm reacting to. - Stephan ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] [PSF-Board] Python help desired
Hi, I found one directory here: http://www.opensourcexperts.com/Index/index_html/Python/index.html I can't vouch for the completeness or quality of the list (in general the PSF can't recommend any particular provider). Not all of them are focusing on programming services. You'll probably want to start with the above and develop your own list of those that you trust. I also saw a few companies advertising on Google when I searched on "python consultants". The job board would also be a reasonable place to announce to get applications from people that would like to be in your pool: http://www.python.org/community/jobs/ Hope that helps. -- Stephan Deibel Chairman of the Board Python Software Foundation http://python.org/psf Collis, Chris wrote: > Guido van Rossum suggested I forward this email to you. I contacted him > earlier this week regarding the inquiry below. Please read. > >> Our company produces hardware for both wired and wireless >> device networking. We recently launched a wireless gateway that supports >> Python for programmability. Our customers use this gateway as part of an >> end-to-end wireless sensor network and Python to add application-specific >> data intelligence. We are looking to assemble a group of third party Python >> developers or Python shops that we can refer customers to who need support >> in developing scripts to support their intended application. >> >> Do you have any organizations/individuals you might recommend who could >> partner with us in such a capacity or another resource I might pursue to >> find such partners? We are a global company and ideally would like partners >> who can support global opportunities or partners in North America, Europe >> and Asia who specialize in those regions. >> >> Feel free to contact me directly if you would like further information or >> clarification. >> >> Thanks much, >> Chris Collis >> Digi Int'l >> Product Marketing >> 952 912 3150 > > ___ > PSF-Board mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/psf-board ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
